gabopentin/neutontin vs suboxone?

I've been off subs for about a week and I'm freaking out. I confessed my sins to some people at my work and guess what happened? yup, I lost my job. I was accused of something I didn't do but they say they have enough on video to fire me so I'm done and my insurance ran out so I'm now on state insurance and I'm waiting for my old sub doctor to open up her new practice so I can get back on subs. I can't handle this.
 
See if you can get some pregabalin/gabapentin, it will help hold you until you can get back to the doctor without having to use short acting opiates.
 
Im currently going through PAWS now, the worst of it should be between 2 weeks and 2 months. However lingering symptoms can linger for up to 1 year. But that is very minor stuff. As stated before its different for each person. Exercise and sweating will help get the toxins out faster. If you're unable to exercise, take a detox bath (epsion salts, baking soda, ginger) 40min, then wrap yourself in a blanket and you will sweat like crazy, just make sure you have plenty of water. Good luck.

Bob

Ps I agree with clonidine, amazing drug, and im partial to the gaba route so long as you dont stay on it for any lenght of time, and 300mg a day wont cut it. Should be more like 800mg 4x daily, again IMO, but ive been there with oxy and morphine.
 
My doctor suggested gaba or suboxone in the begining. kinda wishing I went with the gaba now. I was just scared because I've never taken it before and didn't know what it would do to me. but I've since learned it would have probably been a better choice. Maybe, maybe not, either way whats done is done and I just wish I would have listened to those friends of mine back in the day who told me not to try heroin in the first place cause they knew I'd love love love it.... fml. If I had the chance to move far away to a place where I knew no one I so would just so I didn't know dope was just around the corner...
 
Hi, mommalette1010. I totally understand what you're feeling. I'm sorry to hear about your job. Our stories are very similar as far as being in chronic pain. I started on Norco 10mgs because of the physical pain. They helped me a lot and made me feel like I was superwoman. I use to call them my happy pills. It wasn't long before I was taking 3 or 4 at a time 4 times a day. Withdrawal symptoms would wake up in the middle of the night sometimes if I slept longer than 5 hours bc my body was use to having them every few hours. I was a medical assistant. I worked for a internal medicine doc, so I was calling in my own scripts. I called them in, in my name and anyone who would let me use their name. Before long was up to taking 8 pills at a time every 4 hours. I was also ordering samples of anything with hydrocodone in them to the office signing my bosses name then stealing them. He was ordering too so I'm lucky that didn't come down on me. He also ordered bottles of Darvon/Darvocet containing 1000 capsules per bottle. Anyway I ran out of names and pills so I called in Oxy's in my moms name. .,she was on Vicodin at the time, but doc's change ppls meds all the time. Ocy's were newer back then and I heard they were the bomb. I didn't know my mom was put on Vicodin by another doc too., because her doctor was the one I worked for. She had a problem herself that I was unaware of. I was so consumed with trying to keep my pain level down and staying high that I had no idea what was going on with her meds. It was a Friday.., I was eating Darvocet like crazy to help with the withdrawal that was coming on me fast. I barley made it through the work day. 6:30 came around, I had called the Oxy's in at 2ish , there no call came in from the pharmacy to verify so I assumed they were ready and waiting to be picked up. I went to K-mart to get them and the pharmacist was on the phone with my boss. Needless to say I didn't get the pills. I was freaking the hell out. So many thoughts were racing through my head about my job, my boss and my mom.., ""YET"" I still made finding a way to get high my priority. I loved my job, worked there for 9 yrs.., I was making enough money to own my own home , drive a new leased vehicle every 2 years and make it on my own. I was 30 yrs old, doing great and Fu~~~NG my life up without a second thought. With not knowing what my boss or anyone was thinking.., I went from K-mart parking lot to 8 mile..Detroit. I knew just south of 8 mile I could score some heroine. I had a very close friend addicted to heroine a couple of years prior to this and I would drive her to get her dope. I drove up & down streets asking strangers where I could find some boy. It took me under an hour to find and buy a bundle of heroine. I went home snorted a pack and felt like I was invincible. I thought the pills helped me and made me feel good. I had found my new escape. I apologize for going off subject , but it shows you and everyone else how sad addiction is, how we put it before everything. I did end up losing my job, not for calling in the pills ., I was so far gone and didn't care so I blamed that on my mom. I told my boss that my mom had a problem and used his DEA #. She was a medical assistant too. She knew how and I guess he chose to believe me. He never said anything to her. It didn't take long before he knew I was on something. I started shooting very soon after starting the heroine as we know it is much more powerful than hydrocodone. I would go into the bathroom at work and shoot up. I was nodding when things were slow in the office , my speech was slurish I'm sure and I was smoking 3 x the cigarettes. I over-heard my boss talking on the phone about possibly having to let me go. I left before he had a chance to fire me. This was about 2 months after starting the heroine. He would have helped me.,it was a bad choice.. AGAIN.!!! I had no income, a house payment , car payment , all of life's responsibilities and no way to pay for anything. I went through my savings in under 2 months. None of my bills were getting paid , yet I was still getting high. I went to a pain doc and was prescribed dilaudid, perc's and fentanyl patches. Between selling them and getting 2 roommates..eventually 3 roommates the 3rd was homeless and didn't mind putting a futon in the laundry room to sleep.All 3 of them were on SSI or Disability and agreed to have me take them to cash their check to pay rent. So basically I was guaranteed their rent would be paid. They were junkie's just like me..,one gal was in crack too. I had to try that..just one more thing to help me escape the hell I created. The word got out fast that there was a safe place to hang out. Before I knew it my once new, comfy, home became the place people wanted to come to get high. I couldn't believe all of the people who asked to come to my house to just get out of the drug house..I guess sitting in a drug house getting high was a buzz kill for some of them.. mommalette1010. this was so far away from who I once was. I hated what my life had become. I ended up telling my mom I was an addict and went into treatment. Everyone moved out of my house and I rented it to a nice couple. I came out of treatment in March of 2008. I was put on Suboxone 16mgs a day. I had no idea I was on something just as addictive as the heroine. YET my pain was manageable and so was my life. Here I am almost 7 years later and still on buprenorphine. I weaned from 16mgs down to between 2 to 4 mgs a day. I was recently switched to Zubsolv 5.7 last Tuesday. It's suppose to be equivalent to 8mg of suboxone. My doc said to break it in half because I'm down to 2-4 of subs. They are just not the same to me. I'm taking a whole one and a couple of days I've taken 2. I don't like them. I've never gone cold turkey from buprenorphine. Cold turkey from heroine was hell, I could never make it past 1 day. I always ended up going out and buying some. Can you compare the 2. I'm thinking maybe bc I was down to 2-4 subs and haven't been taking the zubsolv very long I may try to cold turkey it.
 
skyblu isn't that some shit right. one day everythings fine and dandy then before you know it you're in a place you never dreamed doing things you can't believe. I have purposely pushed so many memories out of my mind in my life. the more I think about my life the more I realize I've had problems for a long long time. I think wd suck ass no matter what its from. just something we opiate users have to deal with if we want to be done I suppose. the longer I'm without any the more I want something. and thats because I'm not stopping cause I want to I'm stopping cause I should. if I had the money I'd do it forever, but I don't and even if I did, as you once did, I wouldn't have money for long. this road never ends in a happily ever after. doesn't matter if your the richest person on earth, you start doing dope, you are doomed a poor miserable existence. I have a friend thats on those pills, she takes 3, 8mg tabs a day. and you know what she still has urges and whats the points every dang day. this sucks no matter what, there is no easy road, no matter what, we choose a path of suffering and as far as I can tell it doesn't end. I'll always want the feeling opiates gives me. why? because it puts something in my brain that isn't there. I know there is something missing in my brain. subs never touch my pain and my friend gave me 9 of those pills and they didn't touch my pain either, you know what helped, dope and dilaudids, thats what has worked but you think a doctor is going to give me that? yea probably not.... sorry I'm not in a good place right now so this is probably pretty negative cause of that... withdrawls suck ass
 
I personally choose to remember the bad times, the memories and the withdrawal. It helps keep me in check, remembering I dont want to revisit that place again.

I have chronic pain as it was my choice to take these meds and loose basically 6 years of my daughter's life. Not because I wasn't at home, but I was so tired and had no energy to do things with her and my wife.

I remember crying because of how badly I treated them but even through it all they stuck by me. Im very lucky and thank god daily.

Just remember, we chose this, we put ourselves in this position. However, one thing I can promise you is, once you get to whatever your perceived rock bottom is, you will also be able to dig yourself out. It will take time, but we all have to pay the piper at some point. Your family, friends and business associates will support you, even the great people on this board.

Good luck,

Im pulling for you.

Bob

PS, I do goto.a chronic pain anonymous meeting. Its one of 3 certified in the USA. If your in the north east and are interested, pm me and I can tell you more.
 
So its been almost two weeks with out subs and I'm sti going through withdrawl... when will it end?
 
Subs is different for each person. Depends on alot of things. Weight, metabolism, body fat. Opiates/opioids are stored in fat cells, and subs has a long half life.

If you can excercise and sweat, that will speed things up. If you can't, try a detox bath, it will make you sweat for a long time and relax you. Basics for detox bath is Episom salts 2C, baking soda 1C, and ground ginger 1/8C to start. 40 minute soak, first 20 pulls out toxins, second 20, replaces it with magnesium. Also optional is EO lavender couple drops. You will sweat, a lot. Make sure you have at least 24oz of cold water before getting in. Lastly, if you want, when you get out wrap yourself in a blanket, this will continue your sweat. No soap during the 40 minutes. This has helped me tons and im a guy and not afraid to admit it. Also it makes your skin smoother.

Again all this is just my opinion, im not a dr, but this has worked and helps me out. Good luck, hope this helped a bit.

Bob
 
Thanks. I'll have to get that stuff when I have money again and try it out. Seems it would be good to do something like that every once and a while anyways. A friend of mine thinks I should be on subs for life. She compares it to a diabetic stopping their insulin cause they feel better without realizing the insulin is what's making them better. What's the feel on that?
 
Well, ill turn it around on you, what do you want? Do you want to be on subs for the rest of your life? If thats what works for you, there is nothing wrong with that. Go for it, but your what two weeks into the PAWS, you might have another 2-4 weeks of it, but then you're free.

The only this is, you have to want to be off everything, why put yourself through hell again, and again. So if relapse is an honest fear, then maybe a subs maintenance program is the way to go. Just know, most subs drs dont take insurance and subs is expensive.

So what do you think?

Bob

Ps subs can also be abused.
 
I know all this and that's why I'm asking other peoples opinions so I can make a better decision.
 
If you've made it two weeks I would really fight to try and make a clean break from here. I'm not going to lie you could be in for another fortnight+ of wd from here, but you will have turned the corner and be on the mend and feeling better every day (although it might not seem it sometimes). I would really try to avoid going back on subbies, you've come this far through the wd, now is your chance to be free.
 
I'm really starting to feel that way also. Like why would I want to go through this again? I don't.
 
It's the difficult choice to make but really you've come this far....try to stick with it rather than waste all the hard work you have been through so far!
 
Hi, mommalette1010. I totally understand what you're feeling. I'm sorry to hear about your job. Our stories are very similar as far as being in chronic pain. I started on Norco 10mgs because of the physical pain. They helped me a lot and made me feel like I was superwoman. I use to call them my happy pills. It wasn't long before I was taking 3 or 4 at a time 4 times a day. Withdrawal symptoms would wake up in the middle of the night sometimes if I slept longer than 5 hours bc my body was use to having them every few hours. I was a medical assistant. I worked for a internal medicine doc, so I was calling in my own scripts. I called them in, in my name and anyone who would let me use their name. Before long was up to taking 8 pills at a time every 4 hours. I was also ordering samples of anything with hydrocodone in them to the office signing my bosses name then stealing them. He was ordering too so I'm lucky that didn't come down on me. He also ordered bottles of Darvon/Darvocet containing 1000 capsules per bottle. Anyway I ran out of names and pills so I called in Oxy's in my moms name. .,she was on Vicodin at the time, but doc's change ppls meds all the time. Ocy's were newer back then and I heard they were the bomb. I didn't know my mom was put on Vicodin by another doc too., because her doctor was the one I worked for. She had a problem herself that I was unaware of. I was so consumed with trying to keep my pain level down and staying high that I had no idea what was going on with her meds. It was a Friday.., I was eating Darvocet like crazy to help with the withdrawal that was coming on me fast. I barley made it through the work day. 6:30 came around, I had called the Oxy's in at 2ish , there no call came in from the pharmacy to verify so I assumed they were ready and waiting to be picked up. I went to K-mart to get them and the pharmacist was on the phone with my boss. Needless to say I didn't get the pills. I was freaking the hell out. So many thoughts were racing through my head about my job, my boss and my mom.., ""YET"" I still made finding a way to get high my priority. I loved my job, worked there for 9 yrs.., I was making enough money to own my own home , drive a new leased vehicle every 2 years and make it on my own. I was 30 yrs old, doing great and Fu~~~NG my life up without a second thought. With not knowing what my boss or anyone was thinking.., I went from K-mart parking lot to 8 mile..Detroit. I knew just south of 8 mile I could score some heroine. I had a very close friend addicted to heroine a couple of years prior to this and I would drive her to get her dope. I drove up & down streets asking strangers where I could find some boy. It took me under an hour to find and buy a bundle of heroine. I went home snorted a pack and felt like I was invincible. I thought the pills helped me and made me feel good. I had found my new escape. I apologize for going off subject , but it shows you and everyone else how sad addiction is, how we put it before everything. I did end up losing my job, not for calling in the pills ., I was so far gone and didn't care so I blamed that on my mom. I told my boss that my mom had a problem and used his DEA #. She was a medical assistant too. She knew how and I guess he chose to believe me. He never said anything to her. It didn't take long before he knew I was on something. I started shooting very soon after starting the heroine as we know it is much more powerful than hydrocodone. I would go into the bathroom at work and shoot up. I was nodding when things were slow in the office , my speech was slurish I'm sure and I was smoking 3 x the cigarettes. I over-heard my boss talking on the phone about possibly having to let me go. I left before he had a chance to fire me. This was about 2 months after starting the heroine. He would have helped me.,it was a bad choice.. AGAIN.!!! I had no income, a house payment , car payment , all of life's responsibilities and no way to pay for anything. I went through my savings in under 2 months. None of my bills were getting paid , yet I was still getting high. I went to a pain doc and was prescribed dilaudid, perc's and fentanyl patches. Between selling them and getting 2 roommates..eventually 3 roommates the 3rd was homeless and didn't mind putting a futon in the laundry room to sleep.All 3 of them were on SSI or Disability and agreed to have me take them to cash their check to pay rent. So basically I was guaranteed their rent would be paid. They were junkie's just like me..,one gal was in crack too. I had to try that..just one more thing to help me escape the hell I created. The word got out fast that there was a safe place to hang out. Before I knew it my once new, comfy, home became the place people wanted to come to get high. I couldn't believe all of the people who asked to come to my house to just get out of the drug house..I guess sitting in a drug house getting high was a buzz kill for some of them.. mommalette1010. this was so far away from who I once was. I hated what my life had become. I ended up telling my mom I was an addict and went into treatment. Everyone moved out of my house and I rented it to a nice couple. I came out of treatment in March of 2008. I was put on Suboxone 16mgs a day. I had no idea I was on something just as addictive as the heroine. YET my pain was manageable and so was my life. Here I am almost 7 years later and still on buprenorphine. I weaned from 16mgs down to between 2 to 4 mgs a day. I was recently switched to Zubsolv 5.7 last Tuesday. It's suppose to be equivalent to 8mg of suboxone. My doc said to break it in half because I'm down to 2-4 of subs. They are just not the same to me. I'm taking a whole one and a couple of days I've taken 2. I don't like them. I've never gone cold turkey from buprenorphine. Cold turkey from heroine was hell, I could never make it past 1 day. I always ended up going out and buying some. Can you compare the 2. I'm thinking maybe bc I was down to 2-4 subs and haven't been taking the zubsolv very long I may try to cold turkey it.

Hey skyblu! Your inbox is full! I wanted to reply to your PM, but I'm waiting on you to empty your inbox <3
 
First time I jumped off they prescribed much more than 100 mg. I would at least think you need 300 at night. I would say for the first three days you need at least 300x3 a day and perhaps some Clonidine.
Subs is an option you could do for acute phase also …. then taper off them with Neurontin.

I did methadone for the 4 day acute phase Heroin withdrawal to mask intense symptoms, then switched over to Neurontin/Clonidine for a few more days.

~ Smoky :)
 
yea well I made it almost a full 7 days without subs before my pain over took me and I failed miserably. Back on subs just because I can't trust myself and if I'm not I'll talk myself into it again, I know it. But being on subs and knowing I'll get sick if I do dope makes it so I have to plan it out for a while before I can actually do any dope therefore allowing me to change my mind. Another bit of info is I finally got to see a doctor at the pain clinic and after 10 minutes she said I have fibromyalgia and arthritis in my neck and knees as well as hypermobility joint syndrome which pretty much just says I'll be in pain for ever.... then she did all the tests to confirm what she thought and yup that's what my issues is as well as some other unpronounceable things. now I have a couple scripts that aren't from the opiate family and hopefully they help. other wise I'll just start freaking out, well maybe not cause I have kids, but I will cry a lot... here goes to round three...
 
I've got no experience with jumping from street opiates to a quick bupe taper so I can't really speak with first hand experience about what that's like, but I would have thought it's going to make the whole process longer and more protracted.


Actually, my experience is the opposite - a quick bupe taper, when coming off heroin, can really cheat death. I always thought 'there's no fucking way' I can just take a few days of bupe, to escape the full-agonist WDs, then stop and walk away from it.. But you can. It really does fucking work, it's quite amazing actually.

That said - this says nothing of its effectiveness in beating a habit; it does nothing, I mean - if you've been using for a long time, then you do a quick taper and beat your WDs, there's really absolutely zero reason to believe you're not instantly just going to start using again.

Whilst I do speak highly of bupes effectiveness for a quick taper.. The real magic is getting on the program and changing your lifestyle and mind enough that you can eventually come clean and be stable. Once again, from first hand experience, at this stage there's no beating the reaper, long-term use of long-acting opiates/opiods, there is really no way of not suffering from prolonged WDs. Whilst not intense like full agonist, bupe WDs are not to be understated either (as sooo many prescribers seem to do).
 
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