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Friend Abusing molly?

I just want to add my two cents, back in the day I would use MDMA more and more often, sometimes more than once per week. Naturally the returns diminished. Then I fell in love with LSD and other psychedelics and I didn't take any amphetamines for about ten years time. In fact I avoided them altogether because I had come to loathe the comedowns which had gotten pretty bad. Then when I started using MDMA again after my long break, it was just as good as the first time, maybe even better. I'm just saying this because I hear a lot of people saying that if you use MD too much then your brain gets permanently changed. But my experience seems to show that the brain does recover, albeit slowly. What mechanism causes this is anyone's guess, but it should be some process that's slow. It could be receptors downregulating themselves by burying themselves deep in the cell membranes, or it could be something completely different.
 
Clocktower said:
I have a lot of respect for you JWills so don't get me wrong, consider this to be in the spirit of debate:


I apologize for using the word "many" ambiguously. Clearly, the vast majority of people who use MDMA do not become addicted, most of them not even close. However, I think the few who do are worth mentioning. There are plenty of anecdotal reports on bluelight and erowid by people suffering addiction to MDMA use, some of which involve rehab. If 1 in 100 American 20-somethings use MDMA and 1 in 1000 or 1 in 100 of them become addicted at some point, that's tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people. Furthermore, I think people on BL (or their friends, in OP's case) have a higher-than-normal chance of being those people.

Anyone who's been on BL for one or two years has seen plenty of reports from people who used MDMA weekly or more for months, despite gradually increasing tolerance and comedowns, and suffered for it. That brings me to:

I don't think this is true in every case. Plenty of people do report using MDMA weekly without problems, but at least as many people report suffering badly from that kind of use.
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No worries, I don't take offense. Once again though I think you kind of missed the point. Sure, if the incidence was 1 in 100, or even 1 in 1000, then it might be worth mentioning, but I'd be pretty certain to say it's not. But, I don't have the statistics to hand... Haha. That would just be my intuition. The main problem I have with anecdotal reports is that I wouldn't surprised if half of them are actually taking speed/MDMA pills which I can envisage as being very addictive. I just can't see pure MDMA causing addiction to the point where it's worth mentioning on a HR forum. Perhaps maybe 1 in 100,000 would be more realistic in my opinion.

Anyone who's been on BL for one or two years has seen plenty of reports from people who used MDMA weekly or more for months, despite gradually increasing tolerance and comedowns, and suffered for it.
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Yeah I've seen it, but it's not a sign of addiction.

I don't think this is true in every case. Plenty of people do report using MDMA weekly without problems, but at least as many people report suffering badly from that kind of use.
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I still don't see how this is a sign of addiction though? They're probably just suffering from serotonin depletion or something.
 
I have 2 friends who suffered pretty substantial negative effects on their lives as a direct result of being psychologically addicted to MDMA (one went to rehab for it)... and I know of others through friends of these friends. To me it seems silly or possibly delusional to so strongly claim that it does not cause addiction. Any pleasurable experience can cause addiction, and MDMA is among the most pleasurable of experiences.

MDMA is a great substance but it's not benign, far from it.

No offense meant, merely discussion. :)
 
Xorkoth said:
MDMA is a great substance but it's not benign, far from it.
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depends on if you use it responsibly and what you compare it to. for some of the threads on the first page here, where people report taking huge amounts, if they had overdosed by the same factor on alcohol instead of mdma, they'd not have a few unpleasant weeks but would have died from alcohol poisoning.
 
I understand, I agree that alcohol is more dangerous, it's more dangerous than most things we take. But I'm just saying that I think sometimes people sugar coat it too much. Just because it's physically safer than alcohol doesn't mean it can't be dangerous to your mental health, and it certainly doesn't mean you can't get addicted to it psychologically just like you can any other drug (or experience).
 
The point is that MDMA is one of the least addictive recreational drugs. Sure, you can become addicted, but that doesn't mean it's likely.
 
It's addictive in it's own way. Abusing it at first is very common but once the magic is gone everyone quits, keeps going until they realize it's futile and quit, or possibly kill themselves. I continue to find myself thinking about that amazing high at least once a day and it has been 6 months since my last use. I always fantasize about and feel anxious when I think about the next time im going to do it, in 9 months. I think that's classified as a psychological addiction. It has it's own addiction but you wont see people ruining their lives with it the same way a coke addiction would.
 
I wonder if there's any point calling that addiction, or maybe it's better to reserve the word for things like opiates, nicotin, etc. Because by that same definition I'm addicted to pussy. But I don't consider myself an addict.
 
ComfortablyNumb95 said:
^^ so you consider addictive only drugs that cause physical dependency? I don't get your point
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His point is that Bluelite12 isn't actually addicted to MDMA. I think about it and fantasize about it too, but that doesn't mean I'm addicted to it. A true addiction would be the person who thinks about it constantly, fantasizes about it, and can't control the urge to actually take it every day. Whether this is through strong psychological desire or physiological necessity is void. The very mechanism that MDMA works by really prevents addiction from being an issue for the vast majority.

For the past week I've been thinking and fantasizing about having sex with this cute girl that I slept with before, does that make me a sex addict now? The experience was amazing, just like the MDMA experience is amazing, but it's not a sign of addiction. It's perfectly normal to obsess over very pleasurable, exciting and meaningful experiences.
 
JWills20 said:
A true addiction would be the person who thinks about it constantly, fantasizes about it, and can't control the urge to actually take it every day.
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no. it doesn't have to be every day at all. if you can't control the urge to take it every week or every two weeks or even every month, then it's an addiction.
 
Black said:
no. it doesn't have to be every day at all. if you can't control the urge to take it every week or every two weeks or even every month, then it's an addiction.
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The irony of that statement being that if you've waited a month then you've clearly 'controlled the urge'. You've controlled the urge pretty fucking well - a month is a long time.

I really don't understand what people don't get it? It's not addictive, period.
 
Buy a marquis test kit at dancesafe.org and test that shit. Also tell him to take it easy. Eating copious amounts of shady cut to shit powders is never good for anybody's health.
 
Guys at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's addictive or not. I've seen good arguments both pro and against the theory of "psychological" addiction. Addiction is just a word, and like all words it is not real, but is only a mirror of the true reality that we experience.

The reality is that some patterns of MDMA use are problematic and some aren't. If something you do is fucking up your life, maybe it's time to cut down on it.

Most people would agree that heroin is a destructive and addictive drug. I tried it once a long time ago and had a pretty good time, and didn't get addicted. And I never thought of doing it again and I never will because I was just curious to try it once. Does that mean heroin is safe? Would I be ok if I started using it every day? Probably not. Also I don't recommend anyone to try it because every person is different and many people do get addicted.

Trying to classify drugs in terms of whether they're 'addictive' or 'hard' vs 'soft' or something like that is an error-prone procedure that will only get you so far. You either have to look at specific patterns of use and be very specific about what you say and why, or just generalise and say what most people consider common sense: Opiates and benzos are addictive. Nicotine and caffeine too. Phenethylamines and tryptamines aren't. That's a good rule of thumb for me. I wouldn't call MDMA addictive even though I've seen people using it compulsively every day for a long time and get completely psycho from it.

This discussion about addiction is quickly turning into an argument about semantics, let's just focus on helping people who are destroying their lives because of their substance abuse. Am I right?
 
^^ Good post. This thread turned into an argument and went off topic. I just wanna know how MountainTop's friend is doing. And i wasn't calling it "addictive" or saying i was addicted, obsessed maybe. Maybe habit forming is a good way to describe it. Most of my friends that said they would do it once ended up abusing the shit out of it with me while others said meh and moved on.
 
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