Former Athiests, What Changed Your Mind?

[papercuts]

Spontaneous generation is the missing link..

What is that?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Friends, family members, and I have had spiritual experiences that science/medicine, cannot explain, and we were not on drugs, do not have psychosis, etc.

I do not mean experiences of ghosts or the paranormal. I have friends who have had experienced ghosts, and the one friend is a scientist and he only told me about seeing ghosts when he was drunk. I had just one or two beers as we drank too much the night before and I became sick.

Also if you take a high enough dose of Psilocybin, LSD, nitrious oxide, or even THC/marijuana you might have spiritual experiences on these psychedelics. I never took Ayahuasca, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, MDA/MDMA, disassociative drugs, actual mescaline, or the new research chemicals but friends who still take drugs say that these drugs give the users spiritual experiences. Unfortunately recovery takes priority but I had fun when I was using drugs.

I was not raised atheist or agnostic but growing up I thought my dad was atheist or agnostic, he just does not like mostly all organized religions of any type or the temoles/churches and power structure, and is very typical German in that you can have any sort of religious/spiritual beliefs that you want, or none but how it is to be kept completely private, at home or at a place for this, not to be discussed casually or made super public, you do not wear religious symbols or certain head coverings in public or at work, in government buildings, courts, etc. My mother was the same way but we would go to local reform churches and I went to other churches, temples, etc. with friends who were Roman Catholic, Jewish, Hindu, etc.

I have friends who are from or grew up in the USSR or they still have the very Soviet mentality, who are atheist as they, their parents, up through great-great grandparents had no choice. Are they any more intelligent, rational, open minded, or better people than people who are religious/spiritual: No. The one friend for a long time was very angry at his mom becoming religious when they emigrated to the West and I told him, "Well you are both adults now, and maybe she had to do this to get you and your family out from behind the Iron curtain or USSR. We have freedom of religion here, it is her choice, just as it is your personal choice to be atheist..."

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I haven't changed my generally sceptical view about the physical reality of a deity or the lack of moral and philosophical validity in any of the thousands of worlds religions, but I do now think there is a value to religion- maybe even a necessity. There is a God-shaped hole in the modern world which I think people need filled or we are left with massive polarisation and failure to find a common path forward- chaos and disorder. That said, filling this hole 'legitimately' seems almost impossible given what we now know about our place in the mighty cosmos, so we are left with what I've heard called a 'hole-shaped God', the new religions of politics and ideology. In many ways, the old beliefs in the Great Sky Daddy may have been better than what has replaced it. Which says something pretty fucking appalling.

IDpol, and political leftist propaganda are a cult. I was once a member, but left, no pun. Now I am not registered for any political party.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Back in the 80´s -90´s in my South Italian hometown you were either a Catholic or a weirdo. Catholicism was part of the landscape, an habit, a tradition, what you were supposed to be, along with liking football, listen to shitty disco music , being violent for no particular reason, dress exactly like your peers etc. I hated all this shit so when I was 12-13 I rejected pretty much everything Catholicism included. But religion(s) and spirituality always interested me, Christ puzzled me, I read the canonic and the gnostic Gospels etc....Seven years later I was 19, last year of high school so we were studying the 19th century philosophers, I was thinking about Feuerbach criticism of Christianity, then BAM, dunno how to explain it but my mind made a 360 turn, I felt something which I can only describe like the complete opposite of angst, it was just clear to me that Jesus Christ was the Son of God ( I was sober btw in case you are wondering) . I went back to the Catholic Church only 6-7 years later when I was already living in the UK and that was a more intellectual thing, Catholic Theology and philosophy (especially Aquinas) made more sense to me, I met some extremely smart and inspiring Catholics and some extremely nasty Orangemen, and here I am 13 years later, a pretty fucked Catholic but Catholic nonetheless.

Roman Catholicism is a mystery to me. I have relatives in Italy they are all Roman Catholic and some are more religious or very devout than others, but we don't talk about it and I have more in common with my Southern German and Swiss German relatives.

A friend who was brought up Roman Catholic going to mass and Roman Catholic schools and the classes until age 18, but is now atheist and he has a tattoo of the virgin Mary explained her to me in that she is seen as a mother's unconditional love or divine love in a way. He might have been stoned but it made sense to me. I still do not understand all of the Saints, rosary beads, confession, etc.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

There s probably more Faith Hope and Charity in what you are saying here than in all my theological-philosophical babble. I m sure you ll be, really, and I hope to join you guys after a very well deserved & long period in Purgatory ....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSyjf61A6zE

I thought the Roman Catholic church no longer has purgatory? What if this life on Earth is purgatory? My grandfather was from Southern Italy. He became non-practising Roman Catholic as an adult. He was not excommunicated or did not officially leave the church the way some people have.

I am not sure if his family tried to suggest he become a priest, monk, or friar? If they did I can understand why he unofficially left the church or stopped going to mass, and did not like how the Roman Catholic church demands lots of €£$ from members, even members who are poor or just barely surviving, when they have had immense wealth for Centuries.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I think the dinosaurs died in the flood. Not in some asteroid. And no their technology is flawed.

In the Ancient Levant or Mesopotamia there was probably a flood, just as there is or was in Egypt, but dinosaurs were long extinct before Neanderthals, and humans-homo Sapiens were ever alive.

 

[foodcrisis]

i'm still kind of wondering if they have a jurassic park on an island some where. there's probably another australia sized place with them. i could see it being real... maps are supposedly pretty old. i don't see how they got the technology to see that's what all the continents looked like way back when. i could see there being more room on earth than books lead on.

 

[Brendan12]

What is that?

Spontaneous generation is the doctrine.. that due to pressures of survival or opportunism a new species can form and just appear out of the blue..

It IS a miracle ultimately..

Changes in fossil records show huge leaps from one species turning into another.

 

[swilow]

IDpol, and political leftist propaganda are a cult. I was once a member, but left, no pun. Now I am not registered for any political party.

Agreed. I would also say that many elements of modern conservatism have religious overtones too, although the modern far left have taken it to a much deeper level. I feel disillusioned by this as the left has always been the direction I gravitate towards and still kind of do. But whatever side we talk about, when politics becomes deeply entwined with humans inherent tribalistic leanings, we often see widespread violence ala fascism in Germany and communism through the 20th century. Have we learned anything? Let's hope we don't need to find out.

The only solution, (or response at least) that I've found useful is to approach all ideology with a sceptical frame of mind.

 

[skipjames]

Roman Catholicism is a mystery to me

Ask away if you have any questions and if it will not hijack the conversation. I m no Benedict the XVI but I have read a couple of things about the subject : ) There are are many reliable online resources (Catholic Encyclopedia, Catholic Answers) but if I can be of any help..

thought the Roman Catholic church no longer has purgatory? What if this life on Earth is purgatory?

We no longer believe in the Limbo of the Infants (the state of the unbaptized newborn that have not committed any actual sin ) which has never been an official doctrine but was very popular back in the days. I think - hope that some of the crazy shit we have to endure might get us a discount of the time I ll have to spend in Purgatory

My grandfather was from Southern Italy. He became non-practising Roman Catholic as an adult. I am not sure if his family tried to suggest he become a priest, monk, or friar? If they did I can understand why he unofficially left the church or stopped going to mass, and did not like how the Roman Catholic church demands lots of €£$ from members, even members who are poor or just barely surviving, when they have had immense wealth for Centuries.

I can understand his point , I was a teen when Berlusconi and Cardinal Ruini (back then the leader of the Italian Episcopal conference) were best friends forever and it was one of the reasons that made me very anti Catholic. Imagine the shit some high and mighty were up to back in the days...With regard to the money...honestly at Mass they ask for an offer, I give at most a note of 5 reais (1 dollar?) one-two pounds when I was in the UK.. if you are from Germany (are you? ) then of course is another thing because of the Kirchensteuer stuff.
Down here there are some dodgy pastors of pseudo MegaChurches which are basically billionaires ( and never ever did anything remotely useful to society like the Church did and does anyway, hospitals, orphanages, universities, amazing Churches etc). So it really depends , among the clergy there s any kind of people and they are a means not an end anyway...

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Ask away if you have any questions and if it will not hijack the conversation. I m no Benedict the XVI but I have read a couple of things about the subject : ) There are are many reliable online resources (Catholic Encyclopedia, Catholic Answers) but if I can be of any help..

We no longer believe in the Limbo of the Infants (the state of the unbaptized newborn that have not committed any actual sin ) which has never been an official doctrine but was very popular back in the days. I think - hope that some of the crazy shit we have to endure might get us a discount of the time I ll have to spend in Purgatory

I can understand his point , I was a teen when Berlusconi and Cardinal Ruini (back then the leader of the Italian Episcopal conference) where best friends forever and it was one of the reasons that made me very anti Catholic. Imagine the shit some high and mighty were up to back in the days...With regard to the money...honestly at Mass they ask for an offer, I give at most a note of 5 reais (1 dollar?) one-two pounds when I was in the UK.. if you are from Germany (are you? ) then of course is another thing because of the Kirchensteuer stuff.
Down here there are some dodgy pastors of pseudo MegaChurches which are basically billionaires ( and never ever did anything remotely useful to society like the Church did and does anyway, hospitals, orphanages, universities, amazing Churches etc). So it really depends , among the clergy there s any kind of people and they are a means not an end anyway...

Hi I will PM you on here so as not to hijack the thread.

 

[papercuts]

IDpol, and political leftist propaganda are a cult. I was once a member, but left, no pun. Now I am not registered for any political party.

This is off topic, so apologies to all those affected.
Why do Americans get asked to register who they are going to vote for in advance? Maybe I've got it wrong, never been there, but my friend in NC had to register as an independant because she wasn't allowed not to say.
If elections are free and fair and so on, why on earth are you asked to reveal what is meant to be a secret ballot?
If you can't keep your views private then that will be abused.
Where I live, noone is allowed to ask you who you will vote for, it would be considered the opposite of democracy to ask and very strict rules enforced about where they can advertise their politics, not at polling stations for example.

 

[skipjames]

I love this, best explanation I've had for it, thank you

you re welcome and thanks for the feedback and sorry for my late reply, I ve just read what you have posted .

What I mean is I know what I believe, but could I change that?
I'm not sure I could just decide I'm going to believe in something I didn't believe in yesterday.

I agree, we cannot force ourselves to believe something, and I do not think that´s what Pascal´s wager is about . The Wager is really a part of the Pensees (which I recommend , it s really a great book to read for Christians and non Christians alike , like Saint Augustine´s Confession) , he died before completing it but roughly speaking the idea is; you don t have evidence in support or against the existence of the Christian God. Anyway, as you have nothing to loose and potentially all to gain, it is rational to give Christianity a try with an open mind, reading about it etc He s thinking about Catholicism ( and I obviously agree but I might be biased ) as he writes a lot about the importance of going to Mass, of the Eucharist and the other Sacraments, of Faith but also of Works etc..as they are all pivotal part of this "giving it a try" and can be found only in Catholicism or in the Orthodox Churches , not so much in the Old School Protestant Churches (Lutherans, Calvinist etc etc) let alone in stuff like Once Saved Always Saved, Biblical Literalism (i.e evolution is a lie , young earth Creationism, Intelligent Design ) Bible trumping Brother Jed style nonsense. A sort of Christian version of "Allah says "Take one step toward me, I will take ten steps towards you. Walk towards me, I will run towards you." Does it make any sense?

 

[pino]

When I woke up after a 3-me-pcp bender and Astaroth was sitting in my living room with her 4 assistants. I didn't even know who she was at that moment. Kinda changed my mind.

We had a talk. Since then my life is very different and drugs use is also gone.

 

[crazyhairman]

What's that one where you don't know AND don't care

 

[papercuts]

What's that one where you don't know AND don't care

That's called being stoned.