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first fast acting antidepressant for suicidal people

For good measure and just in case somebody is going to go down this road...

Below is a direct link (PDF download) to Spravato®'s Prescribing Information leaflet. It is of utmost importance to read the document thoroughly. Especially when it comes to the relative strength per ml and the amount dispensed in a single spray. Point being: these other nasal sprays may have a different concentration and a different amount being dispensed per spray. As to whether or not this is relevant and as to whether or not we're comparing applies with applies I know not. But it's the only credible reference source and probably makes for a good starting point if nothing else (in my humble opinion of course).

 
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I called the office here in chicago and they want to do counseling first which costs 100 dollars just like that without even guaranteeing you might qualify. then they tell me the spray without insurance costs 2000 dollars. so i much rather do the IV infusion which is like 400 dollars per dose as i remember correctly. I was told i need at least 6, minimum 3 time dosing which actually isnt AS espensive as i thought, but still not comfortable enough to just waste money without knowing what are the best results. Because It affects the liver so much, the IV infusion, they want a clearance from a doctor mine is ok since i mentioned I went through hepatitis. Damn! It probably must be quiet hard on the liver considering its 30 mins IV directly through your liver.... That scared me.
What do you guys think, pay the shitty 100 dollars for consultation and then the 400 dollars just for 1 dose just to see how it goes or what??
I was considering just doing DXM instead because I read it can achieve if not the same, at least similar results. What are your thoughts on DXM vs ketamine??
 
allone said:
I called the office here in chicago and they want to do counseling first which costs 100 dollars just like that without even guaranteeing you might qualify. then they tell me the spray without insurance costs 2000 dollars.
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I assume the office to which you are referring is the office of a Ketamine Treatment Clinic?

$2 000 USD for the spray sounds off to me. There's at least one person on here that is using Spravato® and it costs $600 USD per week and is being covered by health insurance.

I've only spent a few minutes looking up DXM for the treatment of depression. From only reading a few articles and papers it appears to be the same thing i.e. on its own pretty useless and to be used in conjunction with other treatment regimens e.g. oral anti-depressants. Oddly enough it's been specifically tested for efficacy and safety with Wellbutrin. By no means a new and revolutionary idea though i.e. some of the information and studies date back quite a few years and appear to have varying degrees of success. But I know shit about this so don't take my word for it i.e. see what you can find on the topic and decide.

I've now sent that compounding pharmacy an email asking them whether or not a prescription is required, what the cost is, and if its only supplied in bulk or as individual sprays to patients. IF they reply to me (which I doubt as they can clearly see I'm not located in the USA) I'll post about the ins and outs.

On the topic of costs see below.

"The Johnson & Johnson Patient Assistance Foundation, Inc. (JJPAF) is an independent, non-profit organization that is committed to helping eligible patients without insurance coverage receive prescription products donated by Johnson & Johnson operating companies."

Johnson & Johnson Patient Assistance Foundation, Inc

Johnson & Johnson Patient Assistance Foundation, Inc. is a non-profit organization that assists patients without adequate financial resources and prescription coverage.
www.jjpaf.org www.jjpaf.org

Spravato® just happens to be one of the prescription products that are available through this program if somebody is eligible.
 
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allone said:
I called the office here in chicago and they want to do counseling first which costs 100 dollars just like that without even guaranteeing you might qualify. then they tell me the spray without insurance costs 2000 dollars. so i much rather do the IV infusion which is like 400 dollars per dose as i remember correctly. I was told i need at least 6, minimum 3 time dosing which actually isnt AS espensive as i thought, but still not comfortable enough to just waste money without knowing what are the best results. Because It affects the liver so much, the IV infusion, they want a clearance from a doctor mine is ok since i mentioned I went through hepatitis. Damn! It probably must be quiet hard on the liver considering its 30 mins IV directly through your liver.... That scared me.
What do you guys think, pay the shitty 100 dollars for consultation and then the 400 dollars just for 1 dose just to see how it goes or what??
I was considering just doing DXM instead because I read it can achieve if not the same, at least similar results. What are your thoughts on DXM vs ketamine??
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Without actually knowing your law, aren't RC's ment for 'no consumption' allowed in the states.

If so DCK/ DesChloroKetamine should be available and dMXE if you are more into stimulating disso's. Be careful on the dosage's as they can make you manic. All disso's including regular Ketamine do this to me.
 
Further to my last post above I've indeed received a reply from said compounding pharmacy.

A legit prescription is required (no surprise there I guess) and they will not give me a price quote without a prescription due to company policy (for what appear to be valid business and ethical reasons).

I've asked if they cannot just give me a sort of ballpark figure and make an exception in this case but no response as yet (and I'm not holding my breath on this one).

It's obviously doable though is the main point of all of this.

Not much more I can do on this one. Sorry.
 
DCK is one of the most antidepressant arylcyclohexylamine/dissociatives I know of, didn't test dMXE yet and HXE, both sound promising but so did O-PCE and that one wasn't so good or the batches were tainted - most likely the second. I had some crazy toxic experiences with seemingly pure batches and some with obviously impure ones (DCK white stones with yellow speckles, some slightly oily - avoid of all costs! Nearly died off prolonged use of them)

But honestly even the street price of K is over the roof. That substance is one of the worse dissociatives, you get a nice rush for one hour and then a long comedown, rebound and cravings so that the gram which should last a week is always gone in one night with regrets. Happens too with 2F-DCK but the rebound is MUCH less pronounced, which probably means less neurotoxicity - as long as a dissociative is active as NMDA blocker, it is neuroprotective but when it's gone the rebound is the real toxicity. So tapering down after binges is recommended imo. But yea for depression use ya shouldn't binge so this is irrelevant. Still, K had a pronounced rebound even after just .5g nasally - which is imo the route to go, oral is a waste and builds up more toxic metabolites.

Also, illicit and maybe even medicinal K is one if not the most urotoxic dissociative. We have countless stories of people with bladder problems, some after just a little. Which is crazy and probably attributed to some impurity.
The reason they use K as an antidepressant and not DCK or some freakin exotic molecule is that K is already medicinally approved and has history of use. That's the ONLY reasons. Not cause of superior activity or whatsoever. They even proposed MXE as a superior antidepressant (which it is)!

TL;DR get some 2F- or DCK from a reputable not for consumption vendor, pretend you're infusing your plants with it to explore the crazy structure it gives them or whatever if necessary which shouldn't be and save a fuckton of money together with a nice antidepressant experience.
Here in Mexico I have problems importing some real legit nootropics from the States but DCK from the Netherlands as Not for Human Consumption was no prob so far. Guess it's similar with your fucking DEA as here with COFEPRIS.
 
im still confused if DXM which is basically cough syrup, more of worth using by price and potency comparison to K?
 
allone said:
im still confused if DXM which is basically cough syrup, more of worth using by price and potency comparison to K?
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DXM is a decent dissociative with some SNRI activity built in. Yeah, cough syrup is a dissociative on par with ketamine.
 
Maybe have a look here :
www.spravato.com

SPRAVATO® (esketamine) | Official Patient Website

SPRAVATO® (esketamine) Official Consumer Website. See full Prescribing & Safety Information, including BOXED WARNINGS.
www.spravato.com www.spravato.com

Janssen CarePath for Patients and Caregivers

Janssen CarePath provides information and resources that can help you start and stay on your Janssen medication.
www.janssencarepath.com www.janssencarepath.com
www.tmsbrainhealth.com

Where to Buy Esketamine Nasal Spray Now That Spravato is FDA-Approved

Discover the groundbreaking FDA-approved esketamine nasal spray treatment for persistent depression, available at Bespoke Treatment offices in California.
www.tmsbrainhealth.com www.tmsbrainhealth.com
 
plumbus-nine said:
DXM is a decent dissociative with some SNRI activity built in. Yeah, cough syrup is a dissociative on par with ketamine.
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ok thanks that sums it up basically. instead of wasting money on ketamine just chug cough syrup!
 
allone said:
im still confused if DXM which is basically cough syrup, more of worth using by price and potency comparison to K?
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No, DXM is forbidden for sales and also for prescription over here.

And that is for a reason, its a dirty, dirty drug.
 
emkee_reinvented said:
No, DXM is forbidden for sales and also for prescription over here.

And that is for a reason, its a dirty, dirty drug.
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Yeah DXM 's under pressure in Europe right now, Switzerland made it Rx only last year etc. Indeed, a dirty, dirty drug. I'd rather like to see free K available than free DXM.
 
allone said:
how is DXM dirty drug? first time i hear this
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Its pharmaceutical profile is dirty, it touches so many receptors and systems - it's a SNRI, a sigmaergic, a NMDA and nicotinic antagonist and more, here I refer to the binding tables on Wkipeida. But also in comparison to a good RC arylcyclo dissociative the overall feeling is pretty dirty sometimes. Might well be connected, these two things.

emkee_reinvented said:
DCK is ime good. But also can lead to mania.

o-PCE is mania.
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DCK is good, yeah - just be prepared for its duration.
All the dissos, including K, can and do trigger mania. I would never recommend a disso to somebody who's had full on mania by nature because chances are there that it will trigger. People who are stabilized on meds, I don't know - with lamotrigine I'd say risks are low. With pregabalin it is (very low risk), tested it myself. Lithium's a no-go to mix with drugs. Others are in-between.

Just ordered a bunch of the newer ones like HXE and MXiPr, dMXE etc.. curious about how different these little atomic differences will make the experience.
 
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its not like anyone is certain how many receptors ketamine actually hits on. its still just theoretical and they havent figured it out yet. i doubt they will anytime soon and YET its highly profitable. im sure DXM isnt that much worse in comparison to ketamine. I read reports people comparing the two and DXM is quite easily available so, enough said.
 
allone said:
its not like anyone is certain how many receptors ketamine actually hits on. its still just theoretical and they havent figured it out yet. i doubt they will anytime soon and YET its highly profitable. im sure DXM isnt that much worse in comparison to ketamine. I read reports people comparing the two and DXM is quite easily available so, enough said.
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DXM is worse than K but maybe only when you're like me and abuse the hell out of it. DXM gives me acoustic hallucinations nowadays maybe like people use to get when combined with DPH but only that it's from therapeutic dosages of DXM like 40-60mg's already now. Even thought I couldn't use any and all dissociatives but no- it's just fucking DXM. No probs at all with DCK or guess K / any of the arylcyclohexylamines, they're far closer to each other than DXM is. So, even with DXM being approved as Nuedexta for some weird disorder called pseudobulbar affect (easy laughing and crying if I understand it correctly) and in the route for approval together with bupropion as an antidepressant - no, I wouldn't suggest taking it for prolonged amounts of time. And this when I did DCK for about 3 years. Eventually got the voices on that too but only combined with morphine, alone it is fine.

Remember the DXM FAQ by W. White? He mentioned a 'endopsychosin', endogenous ligand for what he thinks is sigma. DXM is an exopsychosin for sure.
 
well, since K is legal now and is widely prescribed and used i see no problem asking for good source is allowed. send me messages if you have connections!
 
To be honest, all these posts about not being able to afford ketamine, make me so fucking grateful that the UK has the NHS.

Oh and thanks to plumbus-nine, for reasserting that MXE is far superior to ketamine, as an antidepressant (I've had lots of people here, send me a thank you for MXE. Proves I was utterly shite at keeping my identity unknown! 😁)
 
fastandbulbous said:
Oh and thanks to plumbus-nine, for reasserting that MXE is far superior to ketamine, as an antidepressant (I've had lots of people here, send me a thank you for MXE. Proves I was utterly shite at keeping my identity unknown! 😁)
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I'd say its just a bad coincidence that we have now K and nothing better than K available as a second-resort antidepressant for treatment resistant cases, That approval process stuff is so artificial, one should limit it to safety checks and let the people try all the fancy drugs. Hell, we had heroin being marketed as non-addictive. Nowadays we have the SSRI epidemiology and docs scripting quetiapine for every little insomnia.
 
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