-
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
Film & Television
Welcome Guest
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ -
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
Forum Rules Film Chit-Chat Recently Watched Best Documentaries ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ -
Film & TV Moderators: ghostfreak
FILM: Black Swan
- Thread starter L2R
- Start date
TheDeceased
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2000
- Messages
- 1,720
Keneckie said:
The Fountain gets a perfect 5 in my opinion.
(Despite the fact that Kirsten Stewart isn't in it.)
L2R
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2001
- Messages
- 43,528
thanks for that, i didn't notice the second one. however i've realised the answer to the first since posting, which is quite obvious, but they never call it what it is...
it's bulimia. she clearly suffers from it.
it also explains the mother's issue. i thought it was curious how much her mother babied her, even though she is clearly not a child. bulimia and other eating disorders generally also include psychological frailty. the mother's protectiveness was more than just living vicariously through her child, remember she tried to stop her from her great opportunity.
it also explains the mother's issue. i thought it was curious how much her mother babied her, even though she is clearly not a child. bulimia and other eating disorders generally also include psychological frailty. the mother's protectiveness was more than just living vicariously through her child, remember she tried to stop her from her great opportunity.
so, the mother isn't as one dimensional as people claim.
Raz
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Messages
- 7,330
I gave it 3 stars....I agree with TheDeceased, technically there was nothing wrong with it...score was good, camera work was good, choreography was well-done, the actors did well with what roles they had (though I was really disappointed to see an awesome actor like Barbara Hershey wasted in such a cliched overbearing stage mother role).
Things I actually really liked about it: having Natalie Portman's character replace Winona Ryder's character as the darling of the stage is a fucking BRILLIANT piece of meta commentary. I thought that was a great casting decision. I also think that Natalie Portman was actually quite amazing in it, she really pulled off the fragile unbalanced psyche of the character with her body language, the way she spoke, everything. She should definitely get an Oscar for this role, I think she put loads of work into it.
Things I didn't like: I really thought the plotline was just another example of "repressed woman discovers sexuality, goes crazy". Boring, trite, really overdone and misogynistic. I would have been way more interested in a film where the sexually repressed woman discovers that side of herself and uses it to become a stronger person with more agency. Instead, it's one more in a long line of stories that show women can't handle their own desires, and if they don't have a man to rein them in they're just gonna go off the rails.
I also went in to this expecting it to be a lot more subtle, surreal and David Lynchian for want of a better term....nearly every other person who saw it before me said that it's a massive headfuck, and I just don't see that? Maybe I am just too jaded, but I really don't get the big deal about this film. It is technically VERY well-made, but creatively pretty bankrupt IMO...
Things I actually really liked about it: having Natalie Portman's character replace Winona Ryder's character as the darling of the stage is a fucking BRILLIANT piece of meta commentary. I thought that was a great casting decision. I also think that Natalie Portman was actually quite amazing in it, she really pulled off the fragile unbalanced psyche of the character with her body language, the way she spoke, everything. She should definitely get an Oscar for this role, I think she put loads of work into it.
Things I didn't like: I really thought the plotline was just another example of "repressed woman discovers sexuality, goes crazy". Boring, trite, really overdone and misogynistic. I would have been way more interested in a film where the sexually repressed woman discovers that side of herself and uses it to become a stronger person with more agency. Instead, it's one more in a long line of stories that show women can't handle their own desires, and if they don't have a man to rein them in they're just gonna go off the rails.
I also went in to this expecting it to be a lot more subtle, surreal and David Lynchian for want of a better term....nearly every other person who saw it before me said that it's a massive headfuck, and I just don't see that? Maybe I am just too jaded, but I really don't get the big deal about this film. It is technically VERY well-made, but creatively pretty bankrupt IMO...
'medicine cabinet'
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,250
my gf has been dancing all of her life, ballet when she was younger, but mostly modern dance now--and even teaches ballet at a performing arts school in our area, but anyways, i downloaded a screener copy so she could watch it, and i gave it a view first out of boredom (didnt have much interest in it) and WOW what an intense movie. I knew it was going to be aronovsky-ish so it might have some insane parts, but when it was over i felt like i was having a panic attack the entire time.
Crazy thing is i didnt even plan on watching it, but i am glad i did because it def made an impression on me.
Crazy thing is i didnt even plan on watching it, but i am glad i did because it def made an impression on me.
grimble crumble
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 1,008
same here dude. the entire movie is just a constant unease
AmorRoark
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Messages
- 21,182
She does have a semi-sexual scene with her teacher. She lets her sexuality get explored when she listens to and kisses her instructor. Also, I don't know remember if she finished but she had some intense moments in the bathtub as well. I think 'exploring sexuality' is a pretty big part of the 'black swan'.
L2R
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2001
- Messages
- 43,528
sexuality is only one small part of it, and it was used as a means not an ends.
both the sex and drugs are part of her exploration in losing herself, which is what was required of her to perform the black part.
have you guys had the experience of completely losing yourself, especially while dancing? i know i have. i've previous made particular note of those rare occasions where self-consciousness was completely gone.
i can't imagine how it would be to do this while choreographed. sounds bloody hard.
have you guys had the experience of completely losing yourself, especially while dancing? i know i have. i've previous made particular note of those rare occasions where self-consciousness was completely gone.
i can't imagine how it would be to do this while choreographed. sounds bloody hard.
Raz
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Messages
- 7,330
See, I thought the whole thing was a metaphor for sexuality - she starts as being this frigid incredibly repressed womanchild who is unable to form adult relationships; the only people she interacts with at all outside of dancing are her mother and the guy in charge of the troupe, whom she obviously sees as an authority figure...even her bedroom looks like the room of a 12 year old. Then she is flat out told that she HAS to find the passion in her if she wants to succeed in this role, and the rest of the film becomes her freaking out at her inability to handle all the sexual stuff that's been awakened.
All of the stuff that she goes through in the film is in some way related to her expressing her passion, which up until that point had been kept completely and utterly repressed.
That's how I saw it anyway....YMMV
All of the stuff that she goes through in the film is in some way related to her expressing her passion, which up until that point had been kept completely and utterly repressed.
That's how I saw it anyway....YMMV
TheDeceased
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2000
- Messages
- 1,720
There were obviously other things going on in Black Swan. The main character was going through a journey of self discovery. The transformation of the white swan into the black swan was paralleled by the young dancer transforming from a repressed perfectionist to a thing of passion. There is a metaphorical relationship between these transformations. And they both could generally be a metaphor for coming of age/ sexual awakening. Given the amount of sex in the film, it isn't unlikely IMO.
The Wrestler on the other hand is a character study. They are at first glance very similar films. Both wrestling/ ballet have seriously detrimental effects on the protagonists lives/ health yet they continue to strive for success because it is what they have always done. They don't know any different. If you can't empathize/ recognize how that^ applies metaphorically to life in general, that doesn't mean it isn't there.
You can't conclude that because an entire narrative isn't a single metaphor that the film is therefore simplistic and doesn't contain any metaphors. Your question: "Was the Wrestler a metaphor for anything?" doesn't make any sense. And it certainly doesn't substantiate your conclusion that these films have absolutely nothing going on in them except for their basic subject matter.
Raz gas a good point IMO. I was thinking the same thing when I watched it. At the climax of her progression into the black swan, she stops the performance to go off stage and passionately kiss the instructor guy = parallel/metaphorical climax...
L2R
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2001
- Messages
- 43,528
i saw them both as character studies. the requirement to unleash said passion to perform the role to me made perfect literal sense for professional dancing. i think that by putting too much emphasis on sex, one is missing the point, and as i mentioned earlier is confusing the means for the ends.
Max Power
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 9,886
Not me; it's gonna take many, MANY more repeated viewings to decide if it's sexual. Will report back though.
TheDeceased
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2000
- Messages
- 1,720
Both Black Swan the ballet and Black Swan the film are about, to a certain extent, female sexuality.
It is debatable who is missing the point.