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February - Getting and staying clean/sober thread

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Here's how I feel lately.

I'm five months sober into this battle (had two months at one point, then slipped up for a few days. Back up again to 5) and I'm scared shit-less. I don't want to feel this way the rest of my life. The depression, the panic attacks, the cravings. Whenever something bad in my life happens I think of drinking. I want relief and I know that drinking won't give me that. I don't know where to find relief. I'm scared of the future. I want to run.

I'm having trouble functioning as an adult. How am I supposed to function when/if I have kids? How am I expected to take care of children when I am like this? Jobs are temporary but a child is a permanent responsibility.

Does anyone have positive experiences with therapy/anti-depressants to share? Should I just keep waiting it out? Some days are better than others. Sometimes I go weeks feeling great (not often though haha). But this always comes back around and sticks for a while. I'm exercising 6 days a week and eating/sleeping healthy.
 
^Nope it isn't an illusion because I got there, it takes a lot of patience to be able to kick it off completely. I slipped off many times but I never gave up on the hopes of getting clean and here I am today better than ever.

This.

It can work, man. It really can. You just have to keep strong and start being accountable for the choices you make.
 
Sicker than I was yesterday. Body aches, throat still killing me, cannot breathe, feel weak. I have to do a bunch of heavy lifting at work today and it's going to be hell.

But today is 5 months for me, so there's that... :)

I hope everyone else has a good day!
 
No, normal sick. One thing about me is that I've gotten incredibly lucky in that even after 5 years or so of heavy off-and-on use, I don't really get PAWS much at all. I mean, I obviously get the living hell that is acute WD, but once that is over, insomnia and (lack of) sex drive are the only things that are ever still there for another week or two. Like, I admit that when I am using a go all-out. I cannot manage doses, I want to do as much as possible everyday, morality goes out the window, etc. I am pretty terrible at managing a heroin addiction and I tend to pile up collateral damage especially bad. But I am lucky in that I seem to have a very resilient body and haven't had any major medical issues over the years. So ya, it's been 5 months, so I'm well in the clear now. This is just a headcold, possibly the flu.
 
^^

Ugh. Sucks man. I hate being sick like that. But, being used to agonizing withdrawals does make it easier to deal with, IMO. Hah
 
We live in a culture where the stupid have somehow suppressed the intelligent. .
Yes i dont think our culture values intelligence like we do.. it value sheep. :( But none the less I am going to make the effort to try and work in the system and be the change I want to see.

The problem becomes when the sensitive intellectual recovers from a young adulthood of bad choices (be it addiction, abusive relationships, bad financial management, or whatever) and suddenly becomes an enlightened being with tons of courage...the person's already been backed into a corner by the State and must continue to play the defensive life
I guess we are forced to use the enlightenment we have earned to see the right path through these bullshit obstacles. At least we dont have the great desire for material goods as the biggest impediment that these hampers often present is in the acquisition of these. That and if we can dig ourselves out of where we were we can deal with anything. We should start a political campaign to create a pathway for people who have reformed their lives to be able to get rid of criminal records associated with drugs. Change the system instead of trying to beat it.

Here's how I feel lately.

I'm five months sober into this battle (had two months at one point, then slipped up for a few days. Back up again to 5) and I'm scared shit-less. I don't want to feel this way the rest of my life. The depression, the panic attacks, the cravings. Whenever something bad in my life happens I think of drinking. I want relief and I know that drinking won't give me that. I don't know where to find relief. I'm scared of the future. I want to run.

I'm having trouble functioning as an adult. How am I supposed to function when/if I have kids? How am I expected to take care of children when I am like this? Jobs are temporary but a child is a permanent responsibility.

Does anyone have positive experiences with therapy/anti-depressants to share? Should I just keep waiting it out? Some days are better than others. Sometimes I go weeks feeling great (not often though haha). But this always comes back around and sticks for a while. I'm exercising 6 days a week and eating/sleeping healthy.

I think one of the strongest weapons we have against and an absolute necessity for us to be happy and heal from addiction is to change our thought process. In early recovery or possibly until we are able to change our thinking and heal from the damage done by the addiction combined with the awful strong emotion we can be miserable if we fail to address this. If you notice by looking through you post it is chuck full of negative emotions.

Some of the techniques I have used with great success is to no longer judge anything as good or bad. This is not so easy at first but it really is so powerful. People may say its crazy but whats crazy is telling ourselves all this bad stuff happens. If we consider what happens right before an overwhelming hit of negative emotion is that we judge something as bad, like there is the "this fucking sucks" moment. We are the ones who choose to say this sucks or it doesn't.. If we do then in comes the fear, frustration, anger, etc. So try and stop judging anything as bad or good.

The level of emotions gets better as time goes on and as we develop proper ways of dealing with it and change our thoughts. Another strong way to limit negative emotions is to just remain in the present in today. If we start thinking all about yesterday we get hit with guilt, shame, anger, etc.. If we slip into tomorrow we can get hit with fear, self doubt, anxiety, hopelessness. We need to keep it into today. The present is all we ever have and we need to teach ourselves how to enjoy the moment. This means keeping our thoughts in the moment and taking time to live in it.

As far as the craving and the constant argument in your head This gets better as well. I know you already know the technique of calling the addiction when it whispers.. I think after the last relapse you were able to see through it s lies.. so maybe take a look back at that thread to remind yourself what use of the drug is actually like it sucks.. It seems with addiction its always wearing us down.. it say use and we feed it a reason not to use that it just chews on spits back out as a justification to use. Dealing with this constantly it wears is down. Best to let it ware itself down instead.. next time it says use instead of giving it a reason not to use ask it why we should use.. Since you already have been able to see through the the delusion that use is good and will be positive in any way then you already know that there is not and will never be any legitimate reason to use. When I was able to do this it forced the hand of the addiction.. It made it go one the offensive with no weapons.. it made it ware itself out.. it even got pretty humorous at times with the absolute bullshit it tried to use as justification.. this technique switched it from it wearing me down and making more and more weary while it got stronger to it wareing itself down and me getting stronger.

Great job on all you have accomplished 12.. now its time to attack the addictive thinking that driving use and making you uncomfortable. Your doing great. This is paramount as I have come to realize that in the end the desire to use the drugs is because of thinking patterns that need to be changed by us. This can be done with a therapist, by utilizing the twelve step groups and doing the steps or may be attempted buy us alone. Here is a list of common addictive thinking. Not many of us have all these and the psychologist gave it the worst name ever. But here is a list and I have made red the ones I have identified in mysef and emboldened some of the ones your post in 41 may suggest. You may also want to get a book or some information on addictive thinking. This is a crazy list but it was compiled by Hazelton after studying the way the addicts they have seen tended to think. Im not sure is this is a complete list or not as I am not through studying this part of addiction yet.. but I am thinking of making a thread that focusses on this aspect of us and then we can post any relevant information. You may want to order a book that covers these thought processes as well.

Again your doing amazing and with a little more time and some work towards changing your thinking you will be able to have a much more peaceful life. Oh and why not add meditation into your recovery plan. I use mantra meditation and have found great benefits from this. Also there is mindfulness. Your doing amazing <3

Partial list of addictive thinking

NSFW:
1. often become angry at or afraid of authority figures and will attempt to work them against each other in order to get their own way

2. seek approval and frequently lose their own identities in the process

3. are able to make a good first impression but are unable to follow through

4. have difficulty accepting personal criticism and become threatened and angry when criticized

5. have addictive personalities and are driven to extremes

6. are self-rejecting or self-alienated

7. are often immobilized by anger and frustration and are rarely satisfied

8. are usually lonely even when surrounded by people

9. are chronic complainers who blame others for what's wrong with their lives

10. feel unappreciated and think they don't fit in

11. see the world as a jungle filled with selfish people who "aren't there" for them

12. see everything as a catastrophe, a life-and-death situation

13. judge life in absolutes: black or white, right or wrong

14. live in the past while fearful of the future

15. have strong feelings of dependence and exaggerated fears of abandonment

16. fear failure and rejection and don't try new things that they might not do well

17. are obsessed with money and material things

18. dream big plans and schemes and have little ability to make them happen

19. cannot tolerate illness in themselves or others

20. prefer to charm superiors and intimidate subordinates

21. believe rules and laws are for others, not for themselves

22. often become addicted to excitement, life in the fast lane

23. hold emotional pain within and lose touch with their feelings


So these are just things for you to look and and consider. This is no way me judging you or making any sort of a negative coment or conontation. I switched the clasification and placed the ones which apply to me in bold and the ones I thought you may want to look at from your post in blue.. the ones that are both blue and bold seem they may fit us both.

I have been able to make huge strides in may of these areas.. buy changing my thinking, identifying my values and morals and living in the way thats right for me I have been able to almost eliminate some of these symtoms.. these are the ones that are basically gone for me

2. seek approval and frequently lose their own identities in the process
4. have difficulty accepting personal criticism and become threatened and angry when criticized
6. are self-rejecting or self-alienated
7. are often immobilized by anger and frustration and are rarely satisfied
10. feel unappreciated and think they don't fit in
13. judge life in absolutes: black or white, right or wrong
12. see everything as a catastrophe, a life-and-death situation
14. live in the past while fearful of the future
17. are obsessed with money and material things
18. dream big plans and schemes and have little ability to make them happen


If you notice that the tequniques listed above that I use address many of these thinking patterns that make us miserable.. I took these ideas from some of the great minds of the world.. buda, and marcus areleuse to knam a few. It amazing now that I look back on it that they really do address these as I wasn't even looking at addictive thinking when I emplyed them.. but keeping our thoughts in today is a great weapon against 14. And not judging anything as good or bad is a weapon against 7, 12, 13. many of the other thought patterns here come down to morals and values.

By morals and valuse I mean what is imortant to us here is how I worked through this... This is from a letter I sent to a friend=D<3

neversickanymore said:
self reject is where you do not accept yourself. We as addicts have a hard time accepting us for who we are. Healthy self worth come from knowing our values are based on who we are and not what own, what job we have, how much money we have, how much bling we have, how many friends we have, what we look like, none of that makes up who we are. who we are is based of who we are on the inside. Your a great person and thats who you are.

who we are is based in a large degree of morals and values. These need to be OUR morals and OUR values. Not societies, not our parents, not what the advertising tells is is the "corect" way to act and the "correct" things to value. So we need to identify and accept out values and morals. by values i just mean what is important to us, or what do we value.. and by morals I just mean what is the way we need to act and behave for US.

The way we identify these is to listen to you heart.. it know whats important and it knows how we need to act.

But we not only have to identify these we need to accept them as correct. This is where we run into the self rejection to some degree.

If we have rejected whats important to us and the way we know we need to behave then we will have put the value of others in front of what we know is right for us.

This is the reason that criticism hurts so much until we are able to accept ourselves. Because we place the opinions of others before our own and we base our worth off what they say and think. So since we base the value of our lives, our self worth, and the value of what we are doing with our lives of the approval of others instead of the approval of ourselves. This means that the criticisms and comments of others take on a much stronger power with us than the mere opinions of others, they are how we determine the worth of ourselves and the value of our lives. so if we are criticised this tells us that WE are bad. If we are not praised by others then we dont think we are good enough. we always need the acceptance and praise of other, all the time, cause this is how we judge weather we are good and weather what we are doing and how we are behaving is good. So if we dont get praise for something we thought we should then we feel its crap. If something we do gets criticized the its worse than crap its terrible and since we base who e are and our own self worth on the acceptance and opinions of others then we becomes crap and worthless. T

This is why its so uncomfortable to be around people because since you are basing how good you are and how god everything about you is on their opinions, praise and approval then it feel that we are constantly being judged by everybody about every thing.

Since we decide the value of everything by what others think instead of what we think everything seems to be being judged at all times, our clothes, what we say, how we move, what we are doing with our lives, where we live, how much we make, what we like, the value and everything is based off what others think. Its miserable I know i have been there. I remember so many times when I was so excited or loved something and then one person would make a criticism or just a snide comment and then instead of being excited about it or loving it it was now just crap to me.. I could go from on top of the world to strate into depression just by hearing a negative opinion from someone else. If I didn't get praise all the time I was a good person. I needed almost constant assurance that I was good and what i was doing was good and what was saying was good and what i was wearing was good.. sucks bad to base everything off what other people think.

So what you are going to need to do is to identify whats important to you and how its important for you to act. The you need to realize that this is absolutely the correct things for you. The correct way for you to act is how you know you need to act, once you have done this and began acting that way , you will no longer care what other people think of the way you act because you will no longer need their approval because you will be basing how you behave on what you think. You will no longer feel like you forgot how to move when you enter a room full of people who are looking at you. you will ware what you think are great clothes and wont care what the fuck they think. You will say what you think and wont care what people think as its worth and weather its write or wrong will be based of YOU and not what other people think.. same with what you value in life.. its value will be based of off what you think is important and not what others think. Soi what other people think and say will no longer have any power over you.

we also base our worth of of how we think other people think we look off our appearances.. this isn't the value off us it who we are not what we look like and what we ware and how much crap we have or how much crap we plan on getting. Most of the world slaves after useless shit and bases their worth off even more useless shit. The value of you is who you are not where you live, what you drive, what kind of house you have.. it based on who you know you are on the inside.

some of the most unhappy people I have ever come across were pretty, and rich, and had statius, and all the material garbage you could ever want.. but they were absolutely miserable and it made the even more miserable when they looked around a already had everything they ever were told and everything they thought would make them great people, happy people, successful people.. they had it all and were more miserable than ever.

They based their value on how they looked so they always dressed the nines and had to constantly be buying the new fashions, slaves to fashion. see because if they weren't in the best shit then they weren't good enough. they based how good they were by comparing themselves to others.. then they had to keep up with the jones, had to be the first one the get this had to have the best of everything, had to be perfect and better than everyone else cause they based their value on what they had and if they has more than other people and not on who they are.

or the unhappy women women who determine their value on their beauty.. all the make up, hair has to be perfect, all the clothes again, and all the worthless jewelry, the tanning that fries their skin, the surgery when age starts to take their vasue away, the botox, the diets, the anorexia, and body image pain.. all because they incorrectly choose to determine their value on how they looked.

The guy who spends his whole life working a career he didn't like to do.. working night and day and climbing the corporate ladder not there for his family, not doing what he would enjoy, making the money more and more money , bigger and better titles, bigger and bigger offices.. cause they determine their value on prestige on what they do, what they made, and what they accomplished and not who they are.

The same corporate ladder climber is the one who looks around after thirty years of working and slaving to get all the the stuff they told him was important, realizes it all isn't worth any where near what he had traded to get it, realizes that what you have and what you made and what you accomplished doesn't determine your value.. who you are determines your value and he had traded a big portion of his life to acquire a bunch of pretty and expensive things that weren't worth that much at all.. ;)

Listen to and belive in YOUR heart as its the only thing that knows how you need to behave, what is important for you to do, and were you need to go and how you need to get there. <3

The bipolar I was talking about above is really caused by this

13. judge life in absolutes: black or white, right or wrong
12. see everything as a catastrophe, a life-and-death situation

Hope some of this helps as it has helped me a great deal;)
 
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I quit taking buprenorphine one year ago today. Cold-turkey'd a year-and-a-half-long 16mg/day habit. Nice little two-month vacation to the 9th circle of Hell ... but apparently it can be done.

Admittedly I've had more than a few slips here and there in that time with several different brands of substance whenever they had the serendipity to fall into my hands, but I've so far managed to keep from slipping full-on back into my old ways...

I'm not really sure how to feel about it... My approach so far seems to have been avoiding feeling anything about anything at all cost, and just keep going, because if I'd ever let the full force of all the painful/difficult events that have occurred in the past two years of my life hit me, I surely wouldn't have made it this far... I don't know. That's probably only marginally healthier than using drugs to cope.

... Anyway, I'll just leave it at that before this turns into a gigantic journal post.
 
GREAT post, NSA. Your partial list of addictive thinking reminds me of how far I've come. Used to have a lot of those symptoms.
 
5 Days into the month and it's already shaping up to be the most stressful I've had in a while. :\

267 days, at least.
 
I have no choice but to walk a half hour in the freezing rain to the bus so that I can get to work. Mind you, I have a very bad fever, cannot breathe, etc. It sucks, but I cannot call off from work when I need every single hour of pay. Am running on three hours of sleep due to not being able to breathe. This is my life, got to love it! :)
 
267 days is ace, Case. RedLeader, that sucks that you're not well n still have to go to work - I hope you feel better soon xxxx

I quit taking buprenorphine one year ago today. Cold-turkey'd a year-and-a-half-long 16mg/day habit. Nice little two-month vacation to the 9th circle of Hell ... but apparently it can be done.

Admittedly I've had more than a few slips here and there in that time with several different brands of substance whenever they had the serendipity to fall into my hands, but I've so far managed to keep from slipping full-on back into my old ways...

I'm not really sure how to feel about it... My approach so far seems to have been avoiding feeling anything about anything at all cost, and just keep going, because if I'd ever let the full force of all the painful/difficult events that have occurred in the past two years of my life hit me, I surely wouldn't have made it this far... I don't know. That's probably only marginally healthier than using drugs to cope.

... Anyway, I'll just leave it at that before this turns into a gigantic journal post.

First of all, you are amazing for quitting suboxone from 16 mg per day. A lot of people have difficulty when jumping from very tiny amounts of bupe. Please don't be hard on yourself for your slips - it's what we do about them that counts.

Evey xxxx
 
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Way to go, Captain. I get a stronger, more confident vibe from your posts these days. You feeling it?
 
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