fear of salvia/dmt

[Shady's Fox]

Well what pupnik says, couldn't be more true that's what most people think not DMT but the whole root of psychedelics are. Salvia sucks, I say this because I once did it and I thought I was a panther and starting to decorate my fuckin house yo ahahaaaaeee

Try an ayahuasca ritual, you will not regret -- imo best psychedelic drug there is. But if you have fear of not control yourself you might wanna do some searching and figure out what's the light switch. No one can do this but you

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Salvia should not be smoked imo never chewed it though but smoking extreme extract i would never do again.

DMT is the most natural substance in your entire body. Its is pure love clarity and insight. It is the spirit molecule which will take you back to the spirit world which is full of compassion and love. DMT is good that your body usually just stays there still if you just let go and enjoy the ride.

5 meo dmt is the next level to DMT. its the god molecule and nothing will ever beat it you die before you can even exhale which requires a trip sitter as your body goes into spazz mode usually screaming ensures. Most profound in chemical existence will meet god which is yourself and forever rewire your energy system so you can achieve enlightement way eaiser forever after smoking it. You can simply just meditate and become god every night from then on for months.

 

[JackARoe]

One of these days I will try 5-MEO-DMT. It was legal and avaialble for years but I was busy playing with regular DMT and Salvia. Then they made it illegal. But I will work with it a little at some point. And as usual with all my experiences probably won't have a sitter. But don't do what I do. I am stubborn.

And yeah I have read some of the really scary Salvia reports. And they do seem to outweight the good stories although those exist too. I mean, I get it, I have nothing to really advise someone that went through "an eternity of hell". Not much to say. "thanks for coming out, drive home safetly?"

Anything capable of creating such a hell has the ability to create the opposite heavenly experience too.

 

[MindSeeker]

@MindSeeker , I have used salvia 1000's of times.
I like it. My comfort zone is ~25%-30% of the doses recommended eg I am totalled at 250ug to 340ug while most people need 1000ug Salvinorin-A.

it's amazing, but strong.
The amount that made you forget your wife is the max you should attempt to use, it is the beginning of amnesia level and that is the limit, except for more extreme amnesia, which, if you start moving means that you are as likely to jump out the window as fall down the stairs.
go to https://Sagewisdom.org and review the SALVIA Scale and play safe.

Thanks for this valuable information, I will definitely check this site. I was actually convinced I smoked very, very little, my "trip" lasted about 2 minutes. All I remember is some weird kind of spinning/falling, it's as if I tried to get up but kept falling... can't describe it better... and I remember I got very sad because I thought I'm never going to get out of this continuous state of falling... never get back to normal... so lack of visuals and short lasting made me think I had very little.

 

[MindSeeker]

I know there have been harrowing experiences. And I can not say why it doesn't treat some people well. After my first breakthrough I almost got up off the bed and I heard a woman's voice go shhhhh, lay back down. And ever since I am immobilize and pinned to my bed or chair when I use it. I do have some beautiful experiences. People talk about afterglows with Salvia I feel it screws my head on right.

so cool! makes me wanna go for it... just not today yet

 

[MindSeeker]

5 meo dmt is the next level to DMT. its the god molecule and nothing will ever beat it you die before you can even exhale which requires a trip sitter as your body goes into spazz mode usually screaming ensures. Most profound in chemical existence will meet god which is yourself and forever rewire your energy system so you can achieve enlightement way eaiser forever after smoking it. You can simply just meditate and become god every night from then on for months.

So cool! I don't know much about 5 meo dmt but it's on my list now. You say it requires a sitter, do you think DMT doesn't? I know on salvia I tried to get up and my wife had to hold me down...

 

[justme6263]

Salvia terrifies me and thats all there is to say about that.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

So cool! I don't know much about 5 meo dmt but it's on my list now. You say it requires a sitter, do you think DMT doesn't? I know on salvia I tried to get up and my wife had to hold me down...

dmt for most of the time will keep your firmly planted in your chair and quiet but some people are different. Though good practice is always having a sitter for any drug you are attempting for the first time. but 5 meo always requires a sitter as it has physical danger due to the intense ego death.

 

[pupnik]

.... All I remember is some weird kind of spinning/falling, it's as if I tried to get up but kept falling... can't describe it better... and I remember I got very sad because I thought I'm never going to get out of this continuous state of falling... never get back to normal... so lack of visuals and short lasting made me think I had very little.

when you go to sagewisdom really consider the salvia scale.
during the 2 minutes that you recall, you went through the whole scale but you went so quickly to Level 5 (immaterial, where your body perception gets so strange you can fall over and you can believe you are never going to be normal again, many people become the couch upon which they were sitting), that you did not notice level 4 (visionary) or level 3 (light visual) which are both quite pleasant but you have to take less.
you also probably hit level 6 Amnesia when you could not recognize your wife, but it could have just been extreme level 5.

I find I progress through the levels up to the dosage I took, and then after lingering for a few minutes it goes back down through the same thing on the way to normalish in 6-12 minutes, and then a bit of afterglow for quite some time.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Not only did I have a full ego loss faster than ever, but also had an OBE. Once I came out I saw that what I was seeing in the vision was exactly what was happening in real life. Despite me with my eyes closed convulsing too hard to see much of anything. Mind fuck at 16 lol.

Ok, this might explain the kids around here. Salvia is sold in corner shops and I think they're only supposed to sell it to adults but.....we all know how that goes.
Anyway, so many kids that age were smoking it all the time when I was in school. Probably still do.
The real gateway drug round these parts. XD

I've never tried it but nobody I know has said anything negative about it so I kind of still wouldn't mind giving it a go though, at my age, I'm apprehensive. But I'm apprehensive about even drugs I know and love these days. Probably some kind of psychological fuckery I need to get over.

That being said, I've finally procured some DMT for the first time ever and am pretty stoked to try it. I'm wondering though how anxiogenic it might be, especially compared with mushrooms.

I love mushrooms. They're probably my DOC and I've done them many a time but a lot of the trips include me fighting off pretty serious anxiety, which I do successfuly but I wouldn't mind avoiding that with something new, or at least be able to be prepared for it like I am with mushrooms.

 

[MindSeeker]

I love mushrooms. They're probably my DOC and I've done them many a time but a lot of the trips include me fighting off pretty serious anxiety, which I do successfuly but I wouldn't mind avoiding that with something new, or at least be able to be prepared for it like I am with mushrooms.

How on Earth do you fight it off?? After a few good shrooms trips I had 2 (first one with 4-aco-dmt, second with actual shrooms) that gave me nothing but anxiety and after an hour or so I have up and took benzos which killed the anxiety but the trip as well and I gave up on shrooms since then.

 

[MindSeeker]

when you go to sagewisdom really consider the salvia scale.

I'm reading the website now. It seems to me the correct dosing will be hard. I buy something that says extract 10x but is it really 10... maybe 3... or 30... I wish I could just buy pure salvinorin-A with a user manual how to achieve 100% absorbance

 

[JackARoe]

I'm reading the website now. It seems to me the correct dosing will be hard.

Not really, there are dosage recommendations for any of the extracts. But a half gram of crushed plain leaf is enough. I admit it was not enough until I broke through on a 5x. But after that 1/2 gram is what I work with. I think if I were just testing the waters these days I would at least try half gram of plain leaf a few times in dark silence. You may get a good feel for it. The body sensations alone are interesting. You may feel gentle currents instead of being ripped apart. lol

 

[MindSeeker]

Not really, there are dosage recommendations for any of the extracts. But a half gram of crushed plain leaf is enough. I admit it was not enough until I broke through on a 5x. But after that 1/2 gram is what I work with. I think if I were just testing the waters these days I would at least try half gram of plain leaf a few times in dark silence. You may get a good feel for it. The body sensations alone are interesting. You may feel gentle currents instead of being ripped apart. lol

I have technical problems, I'm far from a smoking expert and smoking half a gram at once, in high temperature, is a challenge for me... such a tough one that I'd rather go with its equivalent in extract. Technically 0.05g of a 10x extract should be the same as 0.5g of plain leaf...

 

[bongdong]

I have technical problems, I'm far from a smoking expert and smoking half a gram at once, in high temperature, is a challenge for me... such a tough one that I'd rather go with its equivalent in extract. Technically 0.05g of a 10x extract should be the same as 0.5g of plain leaf...

I also started out smoking my own leafs, and I'm not sure if this thing (@JackARoe referred to) with an initial "tolerance" is true or not, but yes, it's quite a lot of plant material! Think a bong with a big head and a rocket lighter are the tools to go; if it's a huge bong, put some ice in there to cool the super hot smoke. I used up to 0,6g plain leaf (don't have a big pipe (no pun intended)) with multiple draws, which was possible cause nothing more than a slight change in head-space happend, but again, this was in the beginning.

I'm reading the website now. It seems to me the correct dosing will be hard. I buy something that says extract 10x but is it really 10... maybe 3... or 30... I wish I could just buy pure salvinorin-A with a user manual how to achieve 100% absorbance

That's why I wrote about standardized extract, ultimately it's not necessary to know the pecise equivalent in pure Salvinorin A. If the compound is distributed equally and consistent on the carrier material of an "extract", you can work your way up, starting with small doses which is what I would recommend anyway.

Back then I bought a ton of 1g containers of a standardized 5x and 10x extract for essentially no money. I tried to check up now what this factually means in terms of the pure compound, but that's not possible any more since I just found out that it is all illegal now where I live. So the following dosage information should be seen as anectodal: above 0,1g 5x I expect to have a short break with reality regardless whether I close my eyes or not; above 0,2g 10x things get very real with a chance of me not even witnessing the exhalation of the smoke (of one huge single toke) anymore and durations from 4-12 minutes or so. Orally I achieved effects up to 45min, but one needs to be quite committed to do all this chewing business if you ask me, but the effects are certainly interesting too this ROA.

 

[pupnik]

Contrary to all the literature, you do not need high heat.
all you have to do is burn the leaf and inhale the smoke stream.

I have had private email arguments with Daniel Siebert about him promoting torches, and the only positive value to a torch IMO is to prevent soot from getting inhaled since a regular bic lighter does make a tiny bit of soot each time you use it.

If you actually had vaporized salvinorin A (and not the liquefied particles in the smokestream) then your mouth & throat tissues would be cooked. the temperature for vaporization is higher than your barbecue - not at all healthy for living tissues.

I have used pure salvinorin A extracted by an expert (Sphere - the co-author of the paper linked below) who no longer posts anywhere deposited on cigarette papers.

here is a good copy of the document on how to make the papers http://files.shroomery.org/attachments/6963750-Sally.pdf

I am still using salvinorin papers I made over a decade ago. when you take a puff you can taste it but it is as if you smoked nothing - then it hits and MAMMA!

 

[SunriseChampion]

How on Earth do you fight it off??

I just concentrate on mentally reminding myself that I'm high and that whatever it is that was settling the anxiety on me isn't entirely real/isn't permanent.

After a few good shrooms trips I had 2 (first one with 4-aco-dmt, second with actual shrooms) that gave me nothing but anxiety and after an hour or so I have up and took benzos which killed the anxiety but the trip as well and I gave up on shrooms since then.

This may have been a function of the dose. Were the two trips that gave you anxiety done differently than the previous ones? I mean, was the dose the same; was your setting the same; was your mindset the same; same strain of mushroom; etc?

 

[MindSeeker]

I just concentrate on mentally reminding myself that I'm high and that whatever it is that was settling the anxiety on me isn't entirely real/isn't permanent.



This may have been a function of the dose. Were the two trips that gave you anxiety done differently than the previous ones? I mean, was the dose the same; was your setting the same; was your mindset the same; same strain of mushroom; etc?

It was a few years ago so I can't tell for sure but I am pretty sure the set/setting were the same, and I think my first anxiety attack took place when I increased the dose of 4-aco-dmt from 10 to 15 mg which is still a small amount...With LSD 400 mcg for me is a standard dose...

 

[Chris Timothy]

@JackARoe
In case you mentioned PCP analogues in reply to DXM, which I can't but suppose since you simultaneously brought up a remark from our private exchange, then I must say I feel that's casting shade on a perfectly valid harm reduction strat. One - not you - but one can always create a socio-psychological out-group and risk gas-lighting and victim-blaming by retroactively belittling others' mindset when the experiment goes awry like is commonly done in the psychedelic sphere regardless of the provability of predispositions or other hypothetical factors involved. But in my experience DXM just solves the issue, chemically, directly. It's an atypical dissociative, just like how salvia is an atypical dissociative. It has a risk profile on par with the average psychedelic, in some cases arguably even better. Lumping it together with arylcyclohexylamines really would have to argue for a stepping-stone mechanic, departing from a nauseating substance nonetheless.

Edit: Also, upon second thought, your denouncing of the oral RoA can't make much sense either. That you can't see anything of value possibly added to your personal smoking experience is no conclusive argument. You'd have to maintain that extremely rapid onset is generally irrelevant to the principle of set-'n-setting. Surely that's the BS here??

 

[JackARoe]

@JackARoe
In case you mentioned PCP analogues in reply to DXM, which I can't but suppose since you simultaneously brought up a remark from our private exchange, then I must say I feel that's casting One - not you - but one can always create a socio-psychological out-group and risk gas-lighting and victim-blaming by retroactively belittling others' mindset when the experiment goes awry like is commonly done in the psychedelic sphere regardless of the provability of predispositions or other hypothetical factors involved. But in my experience DXM just solves the issue, chemically, directly. It's an atypical dissociative, just like how salvia is an atypical dissociative. It has a risk profile on par with the average psychedelic, in some cases arguably even better. Lumping it together with arylcyclohexylamines really would have to argue for a stepping-stone mechanic, departing from a nauseating substance nonetheless.

Hey CT I am trying to visualize the scenario you speak of by not creating a socio-psychological out-group . I mean I think some of us have experienced that if I am thinking right I feel like that paragraph has a lot of good nuggets I have to search for so I am rereading. (I am dense) I do feel embarrassed that I have read of DXM since 1995 and never tried it. I thought I was being punked with how there is a sub culture that loves it. I also have a friend that says DXM is his favorite dissociative and he has access to PCP. I have used it to lower opiate tolerance but never a larger dose. I still may, the blood pressure issue concerns me as I am older. But an over the counter dissociative that remained legal is interesting. And while some think it is a kiddy drug I have read a lot of respectable people here validate it's usefulness as a tool.

As fr as quidding Salvia I think in my case I need to do what Hamilton did when he went to Mexico and had some natives show him how. I have only rehydrated dry leaves and never tried fresh. I have felt effects from quidding but I am sure there is a lot more to it if done right. So in that route I am inexperienced and can't have a valid opinion yet. But smoking has for sure showed me a lot.

I have already learned a lot from the private exchanges. And I do think we all need to revisit Amanitas based of of posts here. Lots of wisdom to be plucked.

It is perfectly ok to smoke a very small amount of Salvia (DMT too) , feel the effects and see what is going on. And slowly go deeper. And pay attention to the after effects. Funny when Salvia was first realized there was pure Salvorin A crystal. Then enhanced leaf. But plain leaf is plenty strong.