Extremely interesting questions for THOSE WITH 5+ YEARS PSYCHEDELICS EXP.

[jimmyHIP]

Hey guys,

a little background first.

I'm halfway through my 20th year, and as of today I am 2 weeks completely sober.

Now, before this stint (which i have pushed onto myself as a result of totalling my fathers car, obviously 2 weeks ago, yes i was straight when the accident happened) I haven't been sober for honestly a single day since I was 15, whether it was weed (every day), shrooms (at my height twice a week), acid (binges, i'm talking sheets with my band), research chems (DOC fueled trips to the museum of natural history anyone?), coke (never got bad with this), drinking, whatever.

After this little break of mine, i've noticed a severely different attitude in my...well, appreciation of these drugs i suppose.

As someone who smoked every day for so long, the THOUGHT of being stoned is almost disgusting. I want to make something clear, and it's that immediately after i started dealing weed in highschool (at 16-17, not anymore obviously) I smoked weed MAINLY to fall asleep. And that's really the only bad part about not smoking now.

Anyway, this brings me to my original reason for this post.



As you're all aware since I post here and in this specific forum, I had quite an affinity for psychedelics. The way they open your mind, the way they take reality and tell it to get f'd while some new reality shows up for a few hours; just everything happening that shouldn't be, ie visuals (the walls are moving? the floor shouldn't be waving like the ocean...), the thought processes, the completely OUT there ideas and realizations !

However, after this break, albeit only 2 weeks so far, I am having serious, serious doubts about what these drugs have to offer in terms of learning experiences and personal growth. After all, isn't this what most of the people here would say they take psychedelics for?

I'll admit when I was younger, I took acid/shrooms/etc to "get fucked up" more or less. I mean, there *was* something more there, but I could never put my finger on it until I was immersed into the scene, and by that point if I wasn't looking for growth or realizations, I shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Looking back I have to wonder if I ever did truly get anything out of them. None of the trips have a lasting impression on me, except a horrible 7 gram mushroom trip which resulted, ultimately, in my dropping out of HS and getting my GED (I'll be going to Columbia in the fall so all isn't bad).

What I want to know is the following:

a) do any of you take psychedelic drugs for reasons I haven't listed, and if so, WHY? ie besides "personal growth" or "learning lessons"

b) of those who have stopped taking psychedelics, why? due to questioning their purpose like me right now, or something else?

c) this is for the KIDS here, I want to know why YOU take psychedelics and what you think they POSSIBLY have to offer you.

d) for anyone over 30 years old, do you STILL take psychedelics? have you grown out of it? special occasions? and if so, why?

e) can you attribute ANYTHING, be it positive or negative, to your use of psychedelic drugs in particular? Would you be the same or different if you'd never done these drugs? Then, what makes you think that, for whatever reason?

Thanks !

jHIP

 

[fastandbulbous]

The way they open your mind, the way they take reality and tell it to get f'd while some new reality shows up for a few hours

That's the possible difference, I never see it as some new, different reality, just seeing everything from a much different point of view (as an analogy, you can know how to get from one place in a city to another just by following left or right at a certain cue but without ever knowing how these places are arranged w.r.t. each other. Once you've been up a high building or in an aircraft, you can see it all in plan/map form which gives you a completely new understanding of the spacial relationship - nothing has changed except the point from where you're viewing everything)

a) do any of you take psychedelic drugs for reasons I haven't listed, and if so, WHY? ie besides "personal growth" or "learning lessons"

Yes, sometimes I've used them purely for social etc type reasons - low doses and then going to a party/night club just to observe the absurdity/strangeness of human behaviour & interaction. I may well end up learning something profound, but sometimes it's entertainment in the way a wildlife documentary can be entertaining & educational at the same time.

I can say though that I've never taken psychedelics 'just to get fucked up'

d) for anyone over 30 years old, do you STILL take psychedelics? have you grown out of it? special occasions? and if so, why?

Yes I'm in my 40s and I still take psychedelics - nowhere near as much as I used to in the past; as to if it's just special occasions, it's always been a special occasion purely due to the fact it's a psychedelic - I've never just taken a psychedelic on a whim, there's always a reasonable amount of time spent beforehand weighing up the pros & cons of taking one in any sort of situation as they don't lend themselves to being able to function competantly in any social situation unlike a drug like say amphetamine

e) can you attribute ANYTHING, be it positive or negative, to your use of psychedelic drugs in particular? Would you be the same or different if you'd never done these drugs? Then, what makes you think that, for whatever reason?

That could be the subject of a whole essay, but as a quick summary, they've helped in stopping me worrying about stupid social conventions and worrying about what others might think of me for whatever fucked up reasons. I realized that nobody out there is perfect, or even any better than me when it comes to peer interaction etc; they're all sad little fuck-ups with their own social agenda and behaviour to get what they want, so why should I worry if they think me foolish, pathetic etc. At least I'm aware of the fact that I'm far from perfect unlike a lot of people who believe their own self-promoting bullshit and you've got to be aware of your faults before you can start taking steps to correct them and make yourself a 'better' person (whatever your version of a 'better' person consists of)

 

[FR4C74L_M47H*.*.*.]

A) Perspective

B) I'm on break right now, waiting for the right oppertunity which I think will be in the next month or so. After seeing what 6+ grams of cubensis can do to a 145 lb human being (me) I realized that when I dose lower than 5 I feel like I'm just dicking around. The real psychedelic experience lies in egolessness. And if you want to have a rewarding experience at a high dose you need to be in the right set and setting. I plan to dose a little higher, maybe 8? That flash of satori before my violent destruction didn't last long enough :D

E) Again, perspective. How many times have you dosed in the 5+ gram range? I am interested to hear the circumstances of your difficult experience. Were you afraid of what you saw? Why? What did you see? I'm assuming it wasn't what you expected. I'm still having trouble putting my experience into words, though it gets better with time. I really wish more people would try to put into language the experience of egolessness without being overly metaphoric... Sometimes when I read a user talking about their experience it will trigger a memory from an experience I was having trouble bringing back. It's like it needs to be verbalized to be brought to the surface and integrated for me.

Anyway, please elaborate.

edit: great post F&B!

 

[Xorkoth]

a) Nope. For the reasons you said not to list

b) Haven't stopped

c) Not a kid

d) Not over 30

e) My psychedelic experiences are very spiritual for me (in general - of course there are exceptions). For me, they allow a way for me to see my beliefs about consciousness and reality affirmed before me in a very real, visceral way. As a result, I am infinitely more sure of myself when thinking about these beliefs. I have had several major trips which have seriously blasted my world apart and showed me things that I couldn't have possibly conceived of. I think that my experiences as a whole have had an overwhelmingly positive effect on me, and even when I take breaks from tripping for long periods of time, that impact remains the same on my life. If I were to quit tripping today and never do it again, the things I've seen and experienced will stick with me forever, and forever be a part of who I am.

I don't know what kind of trips you've had, or what impact it's had (or used to have) on your life. I hope that you can come to some happy medium between the two extremes, though, because I truly believe that, while of course not everything you experience while tripping is true or applicable to life, many of the core lessons are. And I think it would be a shame if you discarded them all, after spending so much time finding them.

 

[jimmyHIP]

E) Again, perspective. How many times have you dosed in the 5+ gram range? I am interested to hear the circumstances of your difficult experience. Were you afraid of what you saw? Why? What did you see? I'm assuming it wasn't what you expected.

As you guys must be aware with mushrooms they possess something of a "snowball" effect in terms of thought processes;

ie a little good thought will roll down the mountain, picking up more snow, getting bigger, happier, etc.

the same way a little bad thought will roll straight down the mountain getting bigger and bigger.

i still don't know what happened, may have blocked it on purposely, but once i came to i was crying, covered in blood, and had a completely different opinion on absolutely everything than i did before.

as I said that was 7 grams and it was a mistake; a) i was by myself, and b) i had eaten an eighth and then "forgotten i ate the eighth already", so i ate another eighth. maybe it was meant to happen, I don't know, but I've only dosed low (2g max) since then.

 

[jimmyHIP]

I don't know what kind of trips you've had, or what impact it's had (or used to have) on your life. I hope that you can come to some happy medium between the two extremes, though, because I truly believe that, while of course not everything you experience while tripping is true or applicable to life, many of the core lessons are. And I think it would be a shame if you discarded them all, after spending so much time finding them.

That's why I'm trying to get other opinions, I want to see if my thoughts are founded or not..

 

[jimmyHIP]

That's the possible difference, I never see it as some new, different reality, just seeing everything from a much different point of view (as an analogy, you can know how to get from one place in a city to another just by following left or right at a certain cue but without ever knowing how these places are arranged w.r.t. each other. Once you've been up a high building or in an aircraft, you can see it all in plan/map form which gives you a completely new understanding of the spacial relationship - nothing has changed except the point from where you're viewing everything)

I mean, by reality I meant how i'm perceiving the world.

the weird part is since i've been sober i get trails from weird things (like my cell phone in the dark), and lights seem brighter, almost like when i'm TRIPPING (think about what other cars on the road look like when you're on mushrooms or acid) and the worst part is I don't have any sober friends to ask if this is normal or not;

I remember posting my thread about childhood CEV's and everyone responded to that well, but maybe being sober isn't as "normal" as i remember? or maybe the drugs just took a toll on my brain and how i perceive stimuli.

 

[Echoes22]

As you guys must be aware with mushrooms they possess something of a "snowball" effect in terms of thought processes;

ie a little good thought will roll down the mountain, picking up more snow, getting bigger, happier, etc.

the same way a little bad thought will roll straight down the mountain getting bigger and bigger.

i still don't know what happened, may have blocked it on purposely, but once i came to i was crying, covered in blood, and had a completely different opinion on absolutely everything than i did before.

as I said that was 7 grams and it was a mistake; a) i was by myself, and b) i had eaten an eighth and then "forgotten i ate the eighth already", so i ate another eighth. maybe it was meant to happen, I don't know, but I've only dosed low (2g max) since then.

How did you end up covered in blood? (if you don't mind me asking)

 

[jimmyHIP]

don't remember. i assume knives from the look of the cuts but thats a question i still don't know the answer to.

 

[TheTwighlight]

A) I also like to take them because it's funny to watch shit just glitch and fuck the hell up. Hallucinogens are always entertaining. And I don't much care for small doses, either. I went on a 3-month mushrooms binge and ate roughly a pound of fresh every night. I sometimes did it for the "personal growth" and "life lessons" reasons...but also just to hallucinate my balls off and laugh at "reality", or whatever it is.

B) No intentions of stopping.

C) I am no child, mister.

D) Not 30 or over. Or near that. I mean, jeez, man, 30 is fucking old. What do you think I am, old or some shit, dude?

E) Everything that has every happened to me on a psychedelic was positive. There are far too many things to list. As far as would I be the same or different...well, we evolve, you will be "different" without tripping anyways. But if you mean, did these drugs fuck my head around? Hell yes they did. And they still do. That's why I do them. And what makes me think that? Think what?

 

[BilZ0r]

Just to add my two cents...

I don't believe the idea of take psychedelics to learn about yourself/universe is a very well founded one. I think it came from Tim Leary's warped mind, and I'm still shocked that it has managed to stick around for so long.

Of course, people have learned things during psychedelic experiences. But I can't see how, if someone was interested in learning say "the nature of reality" why they wouldn't be better off doing it sober. I mean, if you can't figure out that reality is something constructed by your brain, when your sober, then I doubt you're mental faculties are somehow going to be inhanced by screwing up your brain with drugs.

I mean, you all must have had completely rediculous notions that you were certain were correct under the influence of serotoninergic psychedelics, ("atoms crystalize our reality into forms that allow us to percieve them, and they resonate, and it's those vibrations that we sense").

Furthermore, if psychedelic use was such a gateway to understanding, then how come all the fucked up acid heads I know, aren't learned, peaceful, people capable of constructing valid and poetic sentances? (when in reality, they are often the complete opposite).

 

[nuke]

A) I also like to take them because it's funny to watch shit just glitch and fuck the hell up. Hallucinogens are always entertaining. And I don't much care for small doses, either. I went on a 3-month mushrooms binge and ate roughly a pound of fresh every night. I sometimes did it for the "personal growth" and "life lessons" reasons...but also just to hallucinate my balls off and laugh at "reality", or whatever it is.

You know, I never connected the two, but I was that kid who'd sit at their Nintendo all day long and try my best to get videogames to glitch up and go haywire rather than actually play the game. And I'm quite thrilled by the general psychedelic breakdown of reality, too.

If there is one thing you can learn from psychedelics, it's that reality actually is all just in your head, and with a few quadrillion molecules, you can completely destroy your perceptions about what anything is. If anything, it made me take sober life a tad less seriously.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Of course, people have learned things during psychedelic experiences. But I can't see how, if someone was interested in learning say "the nature of reality" why they wouldn't be better off doing it sober. I mean, if you can't figure out that reality is something constructed by your brain, when your sober, then I doubt you're mental faculties are somehow going to be inhanced by screwing up your brain with drugs.

Their benefit is in removing the normal emotional response to a set situation or of removing mental blocks in your thinking that have been almost 'hard wired' into your responses due to previous psychological conditioning - it allows you to run an idea up against a problem that you'd normally dismiss as pointless etc subconciously, creating a barrier that it's difficult to get past. I can think of one mechanical engineering problem that resolved itself because of the ability to get out from under the normal 'dogma' associated with the problem

Basically allows you to try out seemingly rediculous ideas without the self-conciousness associated with it.

That said, a hell of a lot of bollocks also comes out of using psychedelics as well - acid casualties seem to be what they are because the seem to be unable to sort the gems from the buckloads of dross...

 

[Morninggloryseed]

The value of psychedelic drugs in facilitating life-long positive psycho-spiritual changes needs not be defended. Regardless of the value (or lack thereof) with regard to your experience, there are literally thousands of documents (including studies with multi-decade follow-ups such as the ‘Good Friday Experiments’) to attest to their value. This forum alone has multiple threads dedicated to each of the very subjects you ask. If you are not sure that you ‘Ever got anything from them’ then maybe you didn’t.

I can look at a couple of my own experiences with (in particular) 2C-E, MDMA, 5-MeO-DMT, LSD, and 2C-T-7 and say….Yes, those experiences did change me in a positive way, and I will always reap some sort form of value from them. The lessons of 5-MeO-DMT and MDMA in particular, I’d say I am a better person for having experienced.

However, I’m 29 years old and it has only been 11 years or so since the first trip that I would consider ‘life changing.’ I don’t feel in much of a position to tell you what I will think when I am 80. But it is hard to think I would have ever strayed so far from the lessons learned, that I would doubt whether or not I really ‘got anything from them.’

The following was something I wrote in a similar thread. I’ll repost it here.

I’ve been using psychedelics since I was 15, and I am now 29 (will be 30 this August.) I was first introduced to psychedelics at the age of 9 in my public school-sponsored drug education classes. The descriptions of LSD were extremely compelling and fascinating tome. Fast-forward six years. I discovered the Beatles, and became a huge fan (still am.) After reading of Lennon and Harrison’s spiritual experiences with psychedelics, there was no doubt that I was going to try.

At the time, I was a dyed-in-the-wool atheist. You could say I very much looked up to the Beatles, so I was immensely attracted to an experience that made my heroes ‘see god’ and wanted to know what it was about.

The main reason (then and now) for taking psychedelics was to see what they had to offer. Nothing more, nothing less. I did not start off taking them for “spiritual purposes” and this has still never been a primary reason or objective. I consider such experiences a gift and a blessing, and not something that can come about simply by the convenience of taking a pill (or eating a plant, etc).

Another big reason for tripping has been to bond with my girlfriend (my primary trip partner), and enjoy the sexual enhancement psychedelics seem to offer us. Another reason I take them to further enhance when I am hiking/camping, so as “to make the most of being in the mountains.” Not that I need a drug to enjoy Nature’s beauty…but it certainly increases my appreciation for such.

In the past two years, my tripping days have ground to a halt for various reasons. Since summer of 2004, I have tripped a grand total of two times, and neither experience was with a full dosage. But I will continue to take psychedelic drugs when it feels time. I have never changed my feelings on them, regarding their value for aiding one with personal insights or facilitating a mystical or spiritual experience. If/when I trip again, and if I am blessed with an insightful or spiritual experience…then all the better. But it has never been the primary goal.

The point is, psychedelics were an invaluable aid for me coming to terms with who I am, and seeing my place in the grand scheme of things. Would it have been the same without them? How can anyone answer that? There are hundreds of things that I am sure all of us wonder, ‘what if I had never…” But that is all speculation.

Many of the personal insights psychedelics have provided me with, I probably would have discovered on my own. If anything, psychedelics have ‘sped up the process.’ But when it comes to my three near-death experiences involving 5-MeO-DMT…short of nearly dying because of an accident…I seriously doubt I could have ever experienced anything like that on my own. I still glow inside when I think about my three 5-MeO-DMT experiences….and it has been three long years since the last one.

 

[gloggawogga]

c) this is for the KIDS here, I want to know why YOU take psychedelics and what you think they POSSIBLY have to offer you.

Well, I'm 43. But since you didn't say what age I have to be to be a kid, I'm still a kid.

I take psychedelics because I like 'em. I like they way they make me think, and I like some of things they make me think enough to remember them after the trip. They aren't always easy, they will reveal alot of hidden uncertainties in my mind. But in the long run (I've been kid for 43 years now) I think its good for me to confront and deal with all the uncertainties in my mind. But all things in moderation, of course. Thats important. I think...

 

[Hypnic_JerK]

Hey man you're asking the same question I always ask!

Anyway, I did a TON of soul searching, and I figured out that the real reason I keep taking psychedelics is because I want to be able to bullshit about being a hardcore drug abuser on the internet, but I'm not willing to commit to the Other Drugs.

 

[vancbc]

Cell phones leaving trails in the dark are normal for everyone, psychedelic user or not. My psychedelic experience is extremely limited, so I can't contribute more but cell phones and digital clocks have always left trails in the dark, long before any psychedelic use.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Hey man you're asking the same question I always ask!

Anyway, I did a TON of soul searching, and I figured out that the real reason I keep taking psychedelics is because I want to be able to bullshit about being a hardcore drug abuser on the internet, but I'm not willing to commit to the Other Drugs.

Wow, that's really sad.

 

[gher]

^I'm pretty sure he was taking the piss. If not then watch out for him in Dark Side.

I'm not up to 5 years experience but seeing as I'm here I'll answer the questions.

a) It was always to have fun, occasionally to get fucked up but not excessively. I sure as hell never too mind-altering drugs to 'learn anything' because I can't force that sort of experience. I can barely even coax it.

b) This weekend was my last acid experience for a long time. Maybe forever. I'm just afraid of losing control over my substance use, dropping out of uni and never doing anything productive with myself. I still intend of taking mushrooms a few more times and mescaline once, then I might be able to call it quits completely.

c) See above two answers.

d) Ask again in ten years if I'm back on it.

e) My ambitions and ideas about music and engineering wouldn't be nearly as crazy as they are now.

 

[J. Alfred Prufrock]

^I'm pretty sure he was taking the piss. If not then watch out for him in Dark Side.

I'm not up to 5 years experience but seeing as I'm here I'll answer the questions.

a) It was always to have fun, occasionally to get fucked up but not excessively. I sure as hell never too mind-altering drugs to 'learn anything' because I can't force that sort of experience. I can barely even coax it.

b) This weekend was my last acid experience for a long time. Maybe forever. I'm just afraid of losing control over my substance use, dropping out of uni and never doing anything productive with myself. I still intend of taking mushrooms a few more times and mescaline once, then I might be able to call it quits completely.

c) See above two answers.

d) Ask again in ten years if I'm back on it.

e) My ambitions and ideas about music and engineering wouldn't be nearly as crazy as they are now.

The tacit assumption appears to be that one cannot use psychedelics in moderation and be successful in school and technical careers. I disagree with that assumption.