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Opioids Extracting fentanyl from polymer-matrix patches

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Okay, I'm now really wondering about the nasal spray. Like I said, the above method didn't work, so either the fentanyl didn't get into my final IPA mix (after evaporating a lot of IPA out with 1ml left with the patches in it + 20ml H2O was my final solution used) or it needs to be introduced as a salt when used intranasally? I am going to try this next.

If Oxymorphone is still reading this, I'd appreciate an answer to my question about removing the glue and putting the patch back.
 
BS.

I used them this way and it worked just fine. Got me a very strong buzz on many occasions.

Exactly, subbuccal is a very strong ROA of fent that shoudnt be messed with. Once you perfect the way of drying your mouth and sticking the patch as you would your skin, you will learn its an ROA not to be messed with. placebo my ass.
 
so can u smoke fent ussing this extraction? the powder or watever is left after alchohol is evaporated can be smoked?
 
Comments and suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated! Not recommended for opiod/fentanyl naive people. The below procotol is suggested when one has achieved a steady state with 37.5mcg/h fentanyl transdermal patches. Deviations will require commensurate modifications.

A way is suggested of extracting fentanyl from patch for intranasal and/or oral use which is working with slight deviations from Oxymorphone's protocol. The suggested way avoids alcohol in the end product which is a good thing IMO, is useable in a discreet manner. Some additional detail is added (for example, the colouration of the adhesive) in the interests of harm reduction.

- If used patches are being reused, the remaining fentanyl is calculated as accurately as possible. The more information available on the length of use of a given patch, the better. The total amount of fentanyl originally in the patch minus the number of hours used times the patch dosing is used for this calculation. So if a 25mcg/h patch contains 4.2ml total fentanyl, and a 12.5mcg/h patch contains 2.1ml of total fentanyl, and they were used for 67 hours, then this would be 6300 - (37.5*67) = 3787mcg, or ~3.8ml, of fentanyl.

- A ceramic bowl with a hot pot can be used to create a water bath, with the patch(es) and solution in the ceramic bowl, and water in the hot pot surrounding it, and gentle heat is applied. The patches are immersed in 70% IPA (~50ml) and then stirred routinely until ~75% of solution was evaporated. Another ~50ml of IPA was then added (2 IPA additions total, but more could be can be used depending on one's patience). It takes about 30-45m for 50ml of IPA to evaporate in the ceramic bowl which gives an idea of the amount of heat applied. Halfway through the process (during the first readdition of IPA), the now white looking adhesive is easily rolled up and removed with a fingernail from the patch and both the rolled up adhesive and patch are put back in the solution. The patches and adhesive are removed from solution towards the very end when about 1ml of IPA is left and the solution is allowed to dry completely.

- 4ml of sterile water was added to this residue and thoroughly mixed with the tip of the measuring syringe. (This is the main deviation from the OP; no alcohol is used which leads to nearzero irritation of the nasal passage.). This would represent ~1mcg of fentanyl for 1mcl of H2O. A P20 pipette (which measures up to 20mcl) was used to evaluate the first doses. Doses were gradually increased in 20mcl increments until an effect (see subjective description below) was felt, to ensure extraction was performed reasonably. Effect was quite immediately noticeable at the lowest dose and there was no need to go above 100mcl.

- 6ml of 0.05% oxymetazoline hydrochloride nasal spray (OHNS) solution was added to this bowl and the residue thoroughly mixed and the contents (now 12ml) emptied into an empty nasal spray bottle using a filtered syringe. Another 6ml was used to repeat this process. So total solution in nasal spray bottle was ~16ml, representing 250mcg of fentanyl for 1ml of solution. One drop from the nasal spray bottle was observed to be equal to ~25mcl of solution measured using the P20 pipette, so 25mcg can be expected per drop if extraction was done well. Dose accordingly and extremely carefully!

- Oral use is definitely possible and doable, assuming a 33% bioavailability (in contrast to 89% for intranasal use). Instead of OHNS, lemon juice is preferable.

Comments:

- Intranasal effect at dosings of 50-100mcg of fentanyl subjectively (see subject parametres above, i.e., currently dosing on 37.5mcg/h transdermally) leads to a quick moderate euphoric, hypnotic, pleasurable outcome that peaks at 10-20m and appears to last about an hour. High doses were not evaluated. It appears there is a dose buildup at repeated dosings of 10 minute intervals. 6.5 minutes is the intranasal half life (in contrast to 2.5m and 3-7h for IV and transdermal), so dosing every 10 minutes 3-4 times leads to a situation where excessive fentanyl is building up and this is the stage at which caution must be excercised.

- Oral use leads to a slow moderate, euphoric, hypnotic, pleasurable outcome that is noticeable 1-2h and then tapers gradually, lasting about 4-6hrs. This is perhaps the only way of making fentanyl usage "last" for long periods without repeated dosings.

- It appears that the OHNS solution definitely dissolves the fentanyl. How optimal this process of using 4ml H2O + 16ml OHNS in getting all the fentanyl residue out from the bowl is unclear, but it definitely avoids the pain of having IPA (or other alcohol) in the nasal spray. Benzalkonium chloride is the solvent used in OHNS which is readily soluble and acetone and ethanol (as well as H2O), it is an antimicrobial. and and it apparently doesn't sting even on open wounds, so it may be that an even more dilute solution of OHNS or just straight Benzalkonium chloride is useful as a solvent for IN use. This might be useful for extracting other opiates as well as substances like THC (for a IN tincture). Any input on this would be much appreciated.

- Note warnings about OHNS long term use (rebound effect).

Further potential improvements to try out:

- Soak the patches for longer in the IPA before starting the process. Previous studies have shown that a 500ml room temperature IPA (presumably 70% ) soak removes ~88% of the fentanyl in a drug-in-adhesive patch over 180m. Above, about 100ml of 70% IPA was used with heat and about 120m. While one may gather that at least 80% of the fentanyl was extracted, it is not clear how much more was extracted due to the high potency of fentanyl.
 
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Exactly, subbuccal is a very strong ROA of fent that shoudnt be messed with. Once you perfect the way of drying your mouth and sticking the patch as you would your skin, you will learn its an ROA not to be messed with. placebo my ass.

Well, what would be the point (I ask this rhetorically and I hope to answer that here). The buccal ROA bioavailability is 50%. The transdermal bioavailability is 92%. (Intranasal is 89% and oral is 33% for the record. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl

So yeah, you get something but what you get is less than what you'd have gotten had you applied the patch to the skin. Now you can argue the buccal route is faster, but is it so fast to offset the 40% drop in bioavailability?

The oral use is worthwhile for it's long lasting effect. So the buccal use might have its own benefits, faster onset, and a slow moderate high that is more controllable than the transdermal route where one has to wait many hours to switch on and off. It'd be really interesting to see what kind of an equilibrium/steady state/diffusion occurs in the buccal area
 
IM,Plugging,Intranasal,Sublingual.Oral are listed but it doesnt say how to smoke? it says that this extraction is good for smoking can sum1 help plz? also what is IM? i dont thikn that ,means smoking
 
what do you do with the patch, I'm in the step where your evaporating the alcohol (used cold method) and scraped most of the glue off- well to the very edges of the patch now I'm using my hairdryer on no hot to evap, but the patch is still floating around in there, so do I take it out and toss it, put it in my cheek, what? Leave it while I'm evaporating? no, right? sorry kinda dumb question, just wondering if there's anything in the patch anymore its been in there 2 hours

edit: i took it out for evap cause that's what your supposed to do I'm sure but still wondering if there's anything left in the patch

edit #2 i have to say I'm highly disappointed with fentanyl. After going through this process I did do 25 units, then 50 units, then 65 I don't feel anything at all. My neck is ever so slightly less tense, but that's it. And I only used 3mls in the end. Well, it was worth a try but this just isn't my doc @ all. Not even the slightest hint of recreational value I'll stick to putting them on my skin for practically worthless pain management.
Thanks for all the info though.
 
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Is Mylan a Polymer Matrix Patch?

All right, here are step by step instruction on how to extract fentanyl from the modern polymer matrix patches like Mylan brand and other non gel-reservoir patches (which all use this polymer matrix).

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I believe (due to researching the Mylan brand which you mention several times as being a polymer matrix patch) that the Mylan brand patch is in fact a drug in adhesive matrix patch and not a polymer matrix patch. Is this correct? Please see the documentation in this issue of "Transdermal" magazine:

http://www.ecn5.com/ecn.images/customers/2763/publisher/1765/TD0310.pdf

I am by no means a chemist (the farthest I went was Chemistry II and the repeat of it in College Chemistry.) However, if the Mylan patch is a drug-in-adhesive matrix, I'm having trouble with the later bit about removing the adhesive layer.

Eventually what I found best was to remove the patch after a few minutes while it was warm sitting in the alcohol and start rubbing the glue side with my fingers. It becomes extremely quick and easy to separate and peel all of the glue off the patch without tearing or warping it with a little practice. it is similar to removing the glue off a notebook label or similar price tag.

Now with the glue removed put the patch back in the alcohol (with no heat if you prefer which is proven to be very effective), and in my case I used heat to get the most out of the patch. Do not directly heat the alcohol and be careful with it or you will end up with a fiery mess of flaming alcohol solution (I'm sure you've experienced some accidents with lighting high proof alcohol before while drunk- same sort of thing ). That's why I use a double boiler and am careful not to let anything splash out.

Again, I am no chemist, but isn't the Fentanyl mixed into the silicone adhesive in the Mylan patch? I read through the rest of this thread and didn't see this question asked. I am also fairly new to posting on Bluelight, so please forgive me if I didn't UTFSE well enough.

Cheers,

e_char
 
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I believe (due to researching the Mylan brand which you mention several times as being a polymer matrix patch) that the Mylan brand patch is in fact a drug in adhesive matrix patch and not a polymer matrix patch. Is this correct? Please see the documentation in this issue of "Transdermal" magazine:

http://www.ecn5.com/ecn.images/customers/2763/publisher/1765/TD0310.pdf

I am by no means a chemist (the farthest I went was Chemistry II and the repeat of it in College Chemistry.) However, if the Mylan patch is a drug-in-adhesive matrix, I'm having trouble with the later bit about removing the adhesive layer.

Again, I am no chemist, but isn't the Fentanyl mixed into the silicone adhesive in the Mylan patch? I read through the rest of this thread and didn't see this question asked. I am also fairly new to posting on Bluelight, so please forgive me if I didn't UTFSE well enough.

Cheers,

e_char

You're right that the Mylan patches (at least the ones I have, in a small white and blue box) are the drug-in-adhesive formulations. Not sure what Oxymorphone's comment, where he says to remove the adhesive and put the patch back in his boiler system, meant (statement not made in a pejorative way). The adhesive is removed when it turns white and becomes easier to peel off (which occurs the longer it is warmed/heated) and then everything (patch and adhesive balls) is put back. Towards the very end the patches and adhensive and removed and collected in a container of IPA for a meta extraction down the road!

Experimenting with using nonalcohol based solvents for intranasal and oral use has led to the following observations: Water itself works. Lemon juice definitely works for oral use (*). Benzalkonium chloride based nasal spray solutions seem to work (or don't hurt at least). Some of them have HCl and citric acid in them they are attractive candidates for alternate solvents and the trials are in progress.

* 10ml lemon juice; half a cup of water; used patches calculated to contain ~4mg (yes, milligrams, which is what a Sandoz 25mcg/hr patch contains, 4.1mg to be precise); mix together and let sit for a couple of hours; microwave on high for 45s; wait 30m. ingesting this solution in its entirety orally will contain enough fentanyl to potentially kill an opiate naive person. 2 hrs works just right someone with a tolerance, on a dose of 37.5mcg/hr producing a slow onset long lasting 4-6 hr euphoria. Same conditions with a longer wait leads to an overdose for said individual, with 12 hrs leading to severe nausea, vomitting, and a general messed up feeling after an obviously short lived euphoria. Don't try this at home, you've been warned, unless you have a way of measuring the fentanyl present in the solution through mass spec or some other means.
 
Posts: 12 so can u smoke fent ussing this extraction? the powder or watever is left after alchohol is evaporated can be smoked?

IM,Plugging,Intranasal,Sublingual.Oral are listed but it doesnt say how to smoke? it says that this extraction is good for smoking can sum1 help plz? also what is IM? i dont thikn that ,means smoking

JAYSTYLES CMON BRO plz help
 
Posts: 12 so can u smoke fent ussing this extraction? the powder or watever is left after alchohol is evaporated can be smoked?

IM,Plugging,Intranasal,Sublingual.Oral are listed but it doesnt say how to smoke? it says that this extraction is good for smoking can sum1 help plz? also what is IM? i dont thikn that ,means smoking

JAYSTYLES CMON BRO plz help

IM means intramusucular, as in, injected into your muscle, but not into a vein or anything. It is less "intense" and doesnt really have a "rush" like IV.

*I woudnt smoke fentanyl if I were you......just use as it was meant to. I just got prescribed 200mcg of fent per hour along with alot of dilaudid and im just gonna use as prescribed...maybe put an extra patch on or suck on one for a while. But definitely no smoking. I would never smoke fent...but thats just me.
 
What can you use as secondary alcohol, instead of vodka. Lets say I wanted to take 2 ml of 70% alcohol and dilute it with 2 ml of water. It then being 35% alcohol by volume. Roughly being what a 4ml shot of vodka would be. actually less, waaaaay less then what a 80 proof vodka would be.
 
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I believe (due to researching the Mylan brand which you mention several times as being a polymer matrix patch) that the Mylan brand patch is in fact a drug in adhesive matrix patch and not a polymer matrix patch. Is this correct? Please see the documentation in this issue of "Transdermal" magazine:

http://www.ecn5.com/ecn.images/custo...765/TD0310.pdf

I am by no means a chemist (the farthest I went was Chemistry II and the repeat of it in College Chemistry.) However, if the Mylan patch is a drug-in-adhesive matrix, I'm having trouble with the later bit about removing the adhesive layer.

Again, I am no chemist, but isn't the Fentanyl mixed into the silicone adhesive in the Mylan patch? I read through the rest of this thread and didn't see this question asked. I am also fairly new to posting on Bluelight, so please forgive me if I didn't UTFSE well enough.

Cheers,

e_char

you're correct. the fentanyl is bound within the silicone adhesive.

what is a polymer?
 
Hello everyone,I'm new in bluelight.I use durogesic for 7 years,100 mg/h every 2 days.Oxycodon, you're chemistry man,great job,though i didn't use it.Is there any way to extract fent from used patches(the new non-gel ones)
 
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^for future reference, if you have a typo you can just hit the 'edit' button and fix it. You don't need to create another post to correct it. (I fixed it and got rid of the second post)

Welcome to BL! If you have any questions about the forum, feel free to contact myself or other staff and we'll help you out. Be sure to read the posting standards and guidelines links in my signature :)
 
Basically.

That would be one simple way to extract it with 90% efficiency, yes. I would just remove the glue after it is soaking in the alcohol for a bit if you go down this route. The next thing would be to measure a known amount of water, vodka, or whatever you choose so you can have a known concentration that you can accurately dose- 4ml for a final solution seems to be a good all around volume for patch extraction that allows easy dosing where 10 units = close to however many mcg the original patch released per hour where it is safe to assume it is that amount (since you can only be over estimating slightly which is good in terms of harm reduction).

The method I used was a bit more involved and complicated but was overall quicker and nearly 100% effective.
Wow dude,you certainly did your homework! Iv'e been on the patch for over 10 yrs. now--and have allways either put the gel on my gums or cut the polymer patch and put it in my upper lip/gum--anyway,the NEW sandoz generics are polymer--but a factor of two stronger allmost. I got a script about 5 months ago and was wondering why i was getting so blasted on basically the same size of patch equalled to the mylan. Then i looked on the box--a 75 mcg/h patch has 12.6 mg's of fentanyl!! It absorbs the same way when you where them,but there's allmost a factor of 2 more fent in them. No kidding.A 50 mcg/h sandoz has 8.4 mg's of fenti--thats allmost the same amount of fent in a 100 mcg/h patch from any other manufacturer. I am gonna try your method--but was just giving you a heads up if ya run across any of these new sandoz patches--there strong!!%)
 
Hello all!

< Long time browser, first time poster.

Few questions:

-Does anyone have the facts on if there is any/how much fentanyl is in the glue at all? Someone tried to remove as much as they could after the patch was in the alcohol for about 5 or 10 minutes but didn't want to just throw it away if there was at all a significant amount of fentanyl still in it. They smoked some to see if there was any there, and although they thought there might be a little, the amount seemed quite small to possibly none at all. If someone knew that there was even a milligram or two they might want to still try and extract that.


-Is it possible to actually remove ALL of the glue? They can't seem to get it to come off without making a mess and at best can only seem to get about 90% off. The stuff is so sticky that it seems the only way to end up with scrape-able powder would be to pretty much remove nearly 100% of the glue. Is it just about doing it at the perfect time or a proper method? Or is 90-something percent the best to hope for?


-Is there any substance that can be dissolved into the alcohol during/near the end of the extraction that would basically be used to dilute the amount of end product and would be usable in the same ways as the fentanyl? So instead of having let's say .25mg of pure fentanyl you would have 1.0g of powder with the fentanyl distributed throughout it. Ideally this powder would be usable in any way that fentanyl can be used, but what someone is mostly looking for is something that is both snort-able and smoke-able. Also important is that adding this to the alcohol no have any adverse reactions to the fentanyl.

A less ideal substance would be something that is snort-able and smoke-able but does not necessarily need be be able to dissolve into rubbing alcohol and can just be cut into the end product. This is with full knowledge that cutting something into such a small amount of fentanyl must be done VERY thoroughly in order to prevent any concentrations and that it will still be almost impossible to do this perfectly.

Thanks for the information Oxy, only in a world where all information is someday free will we ever learn how to handle it properly and responsibly. And hello again to everyone else!
 
.

I experimented with just letting the patch soak like this and found it left some glue residue to be filtered out and then i tried stretching the patches out to allow more surface area which worked but made it more difficult since it was hard to control in the solution and kept getting tangled.

Eventually what I found best was to remove the patch after a few minutes while it was warm sitting in the alcohol and start rubbing the glue side with my fingers. It becomes extremely quick and easy to separate and peel all of the glue off the patch without tearing or warping it with a little practice. it is similar to removing the glue off a notebook label or similar price tag.

Now with the glue removed put the patch back in the alcohol

I thought the glue and fent are all mixed together on these patches. No?
Thanks
 
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