EU Referendum Discussion: Well That Worked Out Well Didn't It

[One Thousand Words]

What are you going to do, go on holiday and smash up the place?

I don't think Europe are really going to miss that terribly

 

[consumer]

Question:

If the UK votes 'oot', do we get our own UKDD?

I will still haunt you

 

[bums alt]

@ ABPI

We do know the financial implications of staying in.

Things stay as they are.

 

[BecomingJulie]

What the Brexiteers seem to forget is that Britain outside the EU would have to renegotiate terms from scratch, not from the cushy position we currently enjoy. We've already got some derogations from the more worker-friendly bits of EU law; the Continentals could start insisting for us to accept the full package or No Trade.

 

[BigG]

What the Brexiteers seem to forget is that Britain outside the EU would have to renegotiate terms from scratch, not from the cushy position we currently enjoy. We've already got some derogations from the more worker-friendly bits of EU law; the Continentals could start insisting for us to accept the full package or No Trade.

Exactly Julie. Both Merkle and Obama have already stated that we would-be "back of the queue" when it comes to trade agreements if we leave...

That's one of the resons why I voted to stay. I did get a reasonably good degree in economics at my first attempt at uni much of which was centred on the European Union (even had to buy a copy and read the Maastricht Treaty) so I like to think I have a reasonable grasp of the monetary and fiscal implications.

 

[bums alt]

I think "full package or no trade" is unlikely.
They won't cut their noses off.

"Full package or piss take trade tariffs" is more likely.

It'll be shit.

When the price of food sky rockets I wonder if the curtain twitching Daily Mail types and the beer bellies will still blame all their problems on migrants?

 

[BigG]

I think "full package or no trade" is unlikely.
They won't cut their noses off.

"Full package or piss take trade tariffs" is more likely.

It'll be shit.

When the price of food sky rockets I wonder if the curtain twitching Daily Mail types and the beer bellies will still blame all their problems on migrants?

Spot on mate. It won't be nothing but it will be shit compared to what it is now....

All the fucking migrant haters are just too stupid to understand simple economic fact ....ergo we'll be fucked (like proppa fucked )

Democracy in the hands of people who have no understanding of what they're voting for is a dangerous thing.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

What the Brexiteers seem to forget is that Britain outside the EU would have to renegotiate terms from scratch, not from the cushy position we currently enjoy. We've already got some derogations from the more worker-friendly bits of EU law; the Continentals could start insisting for us to accept the full package or No Trade.

Who cares? The UK is the 5th largest economy in the whole world and we are one of the EU's biggest customers. Do you really think they'll cut off their nose to spite their face? Of course they will continue trading with us, it's in their best interests to do so.

I suspect corbyn is probably pro leaving the EU but is scared to back it because a. the leave campaign has been hijacked by a bunch of right wing nuts, and b. he doesnt want to be seen to be on the 'losing' side if we remain, which is the most probabal option.

There is a reason it is bankers supporting staying in and even Jeremy Corbyn previously insulted the EU for being an unelected commission that exists to protect the City. Corbyn was right! The EU is run for the good of big banks and that is who is backing the remain campaign. That's why Goldman Sachs and the Tories want us to stay in. The Eton posh boys benefit from it greatly.

That is the reason Labour is so silent on the issue. The evidence is out there that Corbyn's real view is very anti-EU. They know not to draw attention to it. Frankly it's pathetic they're saying remain regardless of their genuine views just so they can avoid "looking like UKIP supporters."

Remember the last election, folks? If you asked anyone how they were planning to vote, would they have said Tories? No, people did not admit it out loud... but the Tories still won by a massive margin when the actual votes came in. UKIP didn't do too badly either. The media and what people are willing to openly speak about is not the same thing as what the majority of the electorate actually believes.

And the remain camp know this. Every day you can see them getting more and more desperate to win public opinion. They know it doesn't matter how many big bankers support them because the public hates bankers and they hate the EU.

Exactly Julie. Both Merkle and Obama have already stated that we would-be "back of the queue" when it comes to trade agreements if we leave...

That's one of the resons why I voted to stay. I did get a reasonably good degree in economics at my first attempt at uni much of which was centred on the European Union (even had to buy a copy and read the Maastricht Treaty) so I like to think I have a reasonable grasp of the monetary and fiscal implications.

Why does it matter what Obama says? His presidency is over. Donald Trump is more important than Obama. Whether you like Trump or not doesn't matter, he has a very real chance of being the next president. He said very clearly that we would be at the front of the queue.

 

[bums alt]

5th largest, 4th largest.

It really doesn't matter.
What maters is we import more than we export.
So we need free trade.

When the value of the pound drops those imports will sting.

If you're saying the leave campaign is based on hate rather than logic then I agree.

 

[BigG]

Why does it matter what Obama says? His presidency is over. Donald Trump is more important than Obama. Whether you like Trump or not doesn't matter, he has a very real chance of being the next president. He said very clearly that we would be at the front of the queue.

I put very little faith in what Donald "built a wall...ban Muslims" Trump says.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

I put very little faith in what Donald "built a wall...ban Muslims" Trump says.

As I already said, your opinion of him does not matter. He has a real chance of being the next president of the United States. He matters more than Obama who is on his way out.

5th largest, 4th largest.

It really doesn't matter.
What maters is we import more than we export.
So we need free trade.

When the value of the pound drops those imports will sting.

If you're saying the leave campaign is based on hate rather than logic then I agree.

Yes, we import more than we export... so all those countries we import from benefit from trading with us, because it's us, the 5th biggest economy, who is buying all their shit.

 

[BigG]

As I already said, your opinion of him does not matter. He has a real chance of being the next president of the United States. He matters more than Obama who is on his way out

Its not my opinion of him I'm getting across (he's a cunt BTW). Its my lack of faith in anything he says based on his stupid rants.

Trump says well be head of the queue? I dont believe him...that's regardless of my opinion of him as a man. He's said too many stupid things for his economic policies to have any credence.

Politicians lie.....end of.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Its not my opinion of him I'm getting across (he's a cunt BTW). Its my lack of faith in anything he says based on his stupid rants.

Trump says well be head of the queue? I dont believe him...that's regardless of my opinion of him as a man. He's said too many stupid things for his economic policies to have any credence.

Politicians lie.....end of.

And yet you trust Cameron when he tells us to stay in the EU? You trust Corbyn really wants to stay in the EU despite speaking out against it before the referendum? You trust the unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats at the EU to run our country and our economy for us? You say politicians lie but you are placing your trust in some very questionable politicians yourself.

 

[consumer]

Trump says in an election campaign "you will be at the head of the queue" IF and its a very big IF he wins then he will face the considerable pressure from the rest of the EU. Its not like America operates in a vacuum. It may seem like it does but it also relys on a lot of European countries for trade beside England. So to take his statement at face value would be a bit naive.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Trump says in an election campaign "you will be at the head of the queue" IF and its a very big IF he wins then he will face the considerable pressure from the rest of the EU. Its not like America operates in a vacuum. It may seem like it does but it also relys on a lot of European countries for trade beside England. So to take his statement at face value would be a bit naive.

Then Obama's statement about us being at the back of the queue is equally meaningless.

 

[consumer]

Then Obama's statement about us being at the back of the queue is equally meaningless.

Not when Obama realises from experience exactly how much pressure the EU can bring to bear on the USA. He is talking from experience as a two term president. Trump is just mouthing off.

 

[BigG]

not when obama realises from experience exactly how much pressure the eu can bring to bear on the usa. He is talking from experience as a two term president. Trump is just mouthing off.

qft

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Not when Obama realises from experience exactly how much pressure the EU can bring to bear on the USA. He is talking from experience as a two term president. Trump is just mouthing off.

The USA is able to trade with the EU without any special trade deals or free movement of people or anything else. I'm not the biggest fan of the USA but they are a global superpower and acting as if they are at the feet of the EU is simply a fiction. If the USA wanted to give us priority for trading there is nothing the EU could do. They have much less leverage than the USA. Especially when that EU lacks the UK. What would they have left? Germany would be the only economy worth shit left in that union and every other member state would have their own referendums on their membership shortly after.

You place way too much value on the EU, especially when you are looking at the position of the USA.

 

[BigG]

The USA is able to trade with the EU without any special trade deals or free movement of people or anything else. I'm not the biggest fan of the USA but they are a global superpower and acting as if they are at the feet of the EU is simply a fiction. If the USA wanted to give us priority for trading there is nothing the EU could do. They have much less leverage than the USA. Especially when that EU lacks the UK. What would they have left? Germany would be the only economy worth shit left in that union and every other member state would have their own referendums on their membership shortly after.

You place way too much value on the EU, especially when you are looking at the position of the USA.

That's a well put argument but the bottom line is we just don't know what will happen with these trade agreements until it actually happens.

Market forces are strong and we don't always know what will happen. I'm thinking back to the ERM fiasco in 1992 and how with all the good ideas of having currencies in tight exchange rate band as a precursor to a common currency went to shit when the pound fell out and was devalued.....

The fact that other countries ignored this and introduced the euro anyway is a whole other argument.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

That's a well put argument but the bottom line is we just don't know what will happen with these trade agreements until it actually happens.

Market forces are strong and we don't always know what will happen. I'm thinking back to the ERM fiasco in 1992 and how with all the good ideas of having currencies in tight exchange rate band as a precursor to a common currency went to shit when the pound fell out and was devalued.....

The fact that other countries ignored this and introduced the euro anyway is a whole other argument.

You are absolutely correct. We have no way of knowing for certain what will happen. But acting as if it will all be doom and gloom is extremely dishonest because we are in a much better position than remain campaigners would have us believe.

There is also great risk in staying in and allowing Brussels to continue controlling our country with no real accountability and the goal of creating an "ever closer union". Honestly that risk worries me more than the prospect of having to set our own trade deals.