Ecstasy brain damage?

[bben]

^^ This is true. They also only have studies of MDMA recovery in primates extending as long as 7 years. I think they recovered like 25-30% of lost axonal structure. Monkeys kept in cages are gonna have a hell of a lot less bdnf and nerve growth factor than humans i would guess. Put a human in jail and with no stimulation and im sure hed recover from brain injury slower as well.

The only real problem is that without sufficient SERT transmission, BDNF isnt released easily at all, so this compounds recovery issues.

 

[monkyfunky]

While I constantly preach the horrific dangers of ecstasy abuse and how it has the potential to ruin lives as I have witness personally( anyone who has looked at my posts can see how adamant I am about to doing mdma responsibly, in fact someone I feel like a broken record and have to take a break). I do absolutely believe with enough time even the worst, most fucked up e-abuser can recover nearly completly( mind you the amount of time required for serious abuse can be a very very long time).

While the brain is slower to heal than other parts of the body as it is quite sensitive it absolutely will with time. Brain cells DO regenerate over time. The reason I am so against abusing it is this is not a quick process at all, and can cause serious distress, and someone suffering from serious depression or social issues can make decisions that permantly effect their life and suffer consequences that you will still be paying for even after your brain recovers.

But I always believe if you've gone too far its never too late to quit and make a recovery. If abused to much you might have to quite for many many years even, or maybe give it up comepletely but you WILL feel human again. Every single person I've seen personally or heard stories from here on bluelight( you can see posts from people who abused heavily and then stopped for many years or quit comepletely) they have recovered substantially if not totally.

There is always hope, the brain is more durable than people give it credit for.It just needs more time off than other parts of your body do as it is by far your most complicated and sensitive organ. No one should ever assume they are doomed forever, just stop taking it and prepare to not feel right for a while, they say time heals all( which isn't a 100% accurate statement but sort of applies in this case.

Obviously the best method it to never abuse it to begin with, It takes a while to return to normal and its prefferable to not have to be mentally off for months or years while you recover but your brain is a amazing organ and will begin reversing your damage( albeit while cursing you) .

Never lose hope slowly the dark will turn to light. I've never heard a story about someone who after enough time hasn't made some serious stops in recovering

Do you feel this way for damage from any type of drug, or just ecstasy? (Just curious).

 

[tek75]

AMTDan that is one of the most inspirational posts i've heard on this site... infact you made my day dude!

I certainly learnt a hard lesson from all this and certainly paying for some stupid mistakes in the past. Not that i regret taking ecstasy, it is one of the most wonderful experiences known to man. I now know i shouldn't of got greedy and try to be in that wonderful place too often!

 

[Mantis Style]

Brain damage is too much of a generalized term.

Use of any drug is going to effect long term depression and long term potentiation connections between neuronal circuits.

MDMA does effect both of these natural occurences in the brain. For instance, long term potentiation is what is beleived to form new memories and long term depression is believed to store new memories created so that we may recall on them when needed. Ecstasy abusers show decline in memory capability suggesting that MDMA DOES effect the post-synaptic membrane of neurons and how they communicate with eachother.

 

[bben]

Brain damage is too much of a generalized term.

Use of any drug is going to effect long term depression and long term potentiation connections between neuronal circuits.

MDMA does effect both of these natural occurences in the brain. For instance, long term potentiation is what is beleived to form new memories and long term depression is believed to store new memories created so that we may recall on them when needed. Ecstasy abusers show decline in memory capability suggesting that MDMA DOES effect the post-synaptic membrane of neurons and how they communicate with eachother.

Its been known for a good while now that part of depression is the brain failing to create and store memories. Anything that causes brain dysfunction will usually lead to depression. Drug use is the worst for this, and among drugs MDMA is by far the worse on a per use basis.

 

[oj415]

It's very likely that you already had psychological issues before taking MDMA. I've taken MDMA 11 times in my life, and I have never experienced any of the ill-effects you describe.

I have never had a bad comedown. I do not feel anxious or depressed in the days following MDMA use. In fact, I feel positive and happy, I reflect on the good time I had and all the girls I met.

MDMA has not destroyed my short term memory or my ability to learn. I'm a Biology major at the University of Utah. I currently have a 3.6 GPA (after one semester) and I got a 28 on my ACT. MDMA has not made me a depressed slob with constant anxiety attacks. I have never had mood issues, before or after taking MDMA.

MDMA has however cured me of chorophobia (fear of social dancing), and greatly improved my ability to empathize and socialize. My point is, for every story of someone getting "fucked" on MDMA, there is another one of someone who has only benefited from using it.

You Have a Great Point and I was Like You to In the Beginning Like you said. I also had never had a bad comedown or felt depressed or anything negative.
But little did i know I was still in the honeymoon stage lol.
The reason I have to believe that your in that stage is because you said you have only used 11 times. I have been using for what will be 2 years in march and if your not careful you can and more than likely will have a bad comedown and a little depression, because I have had both. It took me about 20+ times before I had a negative response but at the same time I did abuse MDMA pretty bad lol. But all in all If after a year or 2 you still have no negative effects then I'll Take everything back I said, but "bad comedowns and depression" come with the package so just be aware of that
Peace %)

 

[Matthew Reece]

I'm new here, so I'll briefly introduce myself. I took ecstasy 5 years ago on 3 different occasions, all separated by 2-4 weeks.

I really think some are just genetically susceptible to ecstasys negative effects. It all boils down to personal biology.

I completely agree. I know people who have taken it who seem just fine. I on the other hand suffer from problems multi-tasking, as if I'm constantly sleep-deprived. The anxiety I've always had exacerbates my ability to concentrate even more. I also get very irritable if distracted.

I am curious, however; because even after having 6 months off from any use, I still had not completely recovered. I would still experience certain levels of anxiety, "brain fogginess", bouts of depression, and issues with concentration. I also often have trouble retaining information I have learned. At times, I have issues articulating complex though processes without the use of more effort then I had previously had to use.

This is exactly how I've felt.

I have no intention of doing ecstasy again. I just hope I can regain at least most of my mental composure at some point. Even the knowledge that I will have to wait a year or two improve significantly is almost therapeutic in itself to the hopes that one day I can be somewhat normal again.


Thanks

I've been "waiting" for 5 years with no improvement whatsoever. I've tried exercising often, SSRIs for depression and just about every supplement I could buy.

Intense exercise helps me feel normal for about an hour or two. After that, the cognitive benefits begin to wear-off. DXM lifted my depression for two weeks, but the cognitive deficits - specifically in multi-tasking - remained.

I feel just as smart as before (very), but I'm sluggish, and I have that tip-of-the-tongue feeling all the time whenever I try to remember what I'm about to say.

It's nice (in a perverse way) that I'm not the only to report feeling this way. I've had a brain MRI and other medical tests come back normal. Most of my doctors think my ecstasy use is not related to my cognitive deficits, and they tend to blame them on depression or undue anxiety. To this day, I still wish that was the problem - I'm convinced it's not. I think I got some bad ecstasy (i.e. not ecstasy) or that my brain biology is slightly different and it affected me more permanently than other people.

It's really hard, but after 5 years of doing everything I can to feel normal, I think I need to accept that I might never return to normal.

Maybe advances in genetics and brain imaging will reveal what's wrong with me some day, but for now I can try to avoid multi-tasking or taking on demanding projects. Reading Neurology and Psych journals is interesting, but there's a lot of noise regarding this topic, and there is no practical information on how to reverse the damage, or where it might have occurred, or how to deal with it.

I'm posting in the hope some neuroscientist finds some wisdom or insight in my 5 years of suffering and helps shed some light on this controversial phenomenon. Or maybe someone like me posting among you has found a way to deal with or reverse the damage. Or if I'm really lucky, I'll feel normal in a couple of years - but I'm convinced that is wishful thinking.

 

[matt2012]

Man...I dont want to put you down or anything but I side with your doctors on this one. In almost every case I have seen (your's being the only exception) these symptoms were the result of legnthy abuse. I'm not saying it isn't possible that MDMA cause your issues but going by the law of averages its just not likely that using E three times is going to cause the effects we are talking about here.

 

[Matthew Reece]

Man...I dont want to put you down or anything but I side with your doctors on this one. In almost every case I have seen (your's being the only exception) these symptoms were the result of legnthy abuse. I'm not saying it isn't possible that MDMA cause your issues but going by the law of averages its just not likely that using E three times is going to cause the effects we are talking about here.

I don't feel like you are putting me down. My psychiatrist however, did consider that I got adulterated MDMA. I was drinking alcohol and it was hot outside (we did go outside, unfortunately).

I understand what you are saying about the law of averages (though it's actually the law of large numbers). My case is unlikely - just like getting struck by lightning is unlikely. If you interview most people, they'll tell you they didn't get struck by lightning, but you still find a few who do get struck by lightning. If you put all of those people together, getting struck by lightning is still very unlikely, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

In other words, 200 people might try ecstasy for the first time tomorrow in Germany, and probably none of them will suffer any cognitive deficits. Or 800 will try ecstasy in the United States tomorrow, and one of the them has trouble concentrating but wants to believe it's temporary or related to something else, so it doesn't get reported for a while.

I mean, I don't want to believe that I caused my own cognitive difficulties, and I was afraid to tell anyone close to me, much less post about it on a public forum. I'm sure there are other people like me just trying to hide their symptoms (which are quite subtle sometimes) and hoping to get better.

Or maybe the ecstasy simply triggered a depression and this will all go away when the depression is dealt with.

Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong, but I think I got something besides MDMA, or adulterated MDMA and I'm suffering from permanent deficits with multi-tasking.

 

[Matthew Reece]

Here are a couple of people who had problems. I know there are others who haven't had any.

lol I've used 8 times in actually 2 and a half years. . .
thats about 5 months inbetween.
its doesn't matter how long I wait
it started after the first use. . .
im really sensitive to e and it opened a lot of doors that were shut before use.

I rolled 3 times in my life on molly, all within a 3month period. I feel like since the last time I rolled I have not been the same. I have this looming depression that won't go away, I'm going to the doctor and have been diagnosed with severe depression. I feel like I'm on a permanent comedown and it is absolutely awful. I just get really depressed about absolutely nothing.....all the effing time. I get anxiety/depression "attacks" and the only thing that has been helping me feel normal is valium. I'm about to start on lamotrigine which is an extremely powerful anti-depressant, usually prescribed to people that had no result from the common SSRI's like Paxil and Zoloft.

I don't know if this is infact a lasting effect of the MDMA, but like I said, I have not felt the same since my last roll. It was an amazing roll, felt incredible all night until one point where I had some wierd trip-out and my friends suddenly looked like strangers.

I think that was the last time I may ever touch the stuff again, just to be safe. I have no idea what damage I may have done.

That experience is remarkably similar to mine.

I'm not a prohibitionist, but I'm not alone in thinking my first time use affected me permanently.

 

[WSB15]

I work in a mental health treatment center and we get an inordinate amount of patients with depression/anxiety problems who have a history of MDMA abuse (usually they used it 2-5 years ago, >1x month). I've also met people with panic disorder and other psych issues that they attributed to their use of E. People who use ecstasy always try to refute that MDMA can be neurotoxic, but there's enough evidence to scare me out of ever doing it...and I've tried quite a few drugs...MDMA & methamphetamine are the only 2 I wouldn't touch because of potential neurotoxicity.

 

[clay404]

I work in a mental health treatment center and we get an inordinate amount of patients with depression/anxiety problems who have a history of MDMA abuse (usually they used it 2-5 years ago, >1x month). I've also met people with panic disorder and other psych issues that they attributed to their use of E. People who use ecstasy always try to refute that MDMA can be neurotoxic, but there's enough evidence to scare me out of ever doing it...and I've tried quite a few drugs...MDMA & methamphetamine are the only 2 I wouldn't touch because of potential neurotoxicity.

what do they usually recommend these patients do at your clinic?

 

[Matthew Reece]

what do they usually recommend these patients do at your clinic?

I would be interested to know as well.

 

[WSB15]

If its dx'd as a major depressive episode, the main treatment is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and antidepressants. As far as I know their treatment isn't really any different than from those with the same diagnosis without a history of rolling. I do intake forms and other lowly paper work (I have a BS in Psychology, going to grad school in the fall). So I see their historical records and the forms they're asked to fill out which includes history of drugs taken. I don't have access to the psychiatrist's records after they start inpatient or outpatient treatment though, so I can't tell you if certain meds are usually more frequently in those patients. I'd bet money that they're given SSRIs or other serotonergic drugs a lot of the time...

I should probably note that while I see MDMA listed a lot in the intake records for depression & anxiety disorders (and less freq. in schizophrenics & other disorders), a much higher percentage of these psychiatric patients have significant drug histories than the general population. It could be argued that their drug use was self-medication, that the drugs made their conditions worse, or both. So while I've noticed a lot of MDMA use in those histories, I'm not going to infer causation or anything, especially since there's usually other drugs (at least weed/booze) in the list.

 

[clay404]

^

thanks. yea I think it's hard to discern which came first in a lot of cases: the mental problems or the drug abuse. I know I had anxiety and ocd before using mdma, but feel that mdma made the anxiety worse - at least for a time period. Not sure how I could quantify to what degree my condition worsened or even if it was MDMA that worsened it, as I was doing other drugs on and off too to self-medicate.

 

[Matthew Reece]

^

thanks. yea I think it's hard to discern which came first in a lot of cases: the mental problems or the drug abuse. I know I had anxiety and ocd before using mdma, but feel that mdma made the anxiety worse - at least for a time period. Not sure how I could quantify to what degree my condition worsened or even if it was MDMA that worsened it, as I was doing other drugs on and off too to self-medicate.

I had anxiety and OCD before my MDMA use. Just as a hypothesis, maybe people with one or the other are more prone to problems with MDMA.

 

[clay404]

^ I used to obsess that I was ruined forever the first time I smoked weed. I swore I was brain damaged and swore that my cognition was diminishing. I think we OCDers tend to obsess about potential problems and we tend to assume the worst. What could be minimal or negligible damage can be imagined as something much worse than it actually is.

MDMA probably does exacerbate anxiety problems though because it gets neurotransmitter systems out of whack. Hopefully though your brain and my brain will balance out.

 

[LonE1]

Ive had tons of problems after all my ecstasy use. I tend to overthink things, and just am not as sharp as I used 2 be. Hopefully it will get better as ive read lots of reports that staying clean will defiantly help the brain recover as well as using lots of vitimens