EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...

[elgoucho9]

Well China FINALLY prohibited the production of fentanyl precursors and the DEA actually lists the pre-precursors that were being shipped instead.

But IF the nitazenes were being produces in Mexico, I would have presumed that etonitazene or even 4-carboxamido etonitazine (the former being x1500M, the latter some x3000 M)? After all, the latter is likely even legal in Mexico.

Their are actually quite a few other scaffolds in the literature and so I'm sure we will eventually see nitazene precursors being controlled and then something else taking their place.

The odd thing is that their are some good precursors 'hiding in plain sight' but it requires a somewhat different approach - not a methodology criminals have ever (to the best of my knowledge) ever employed.

No offence meant by this but i wouldn't give anyone hints towards precursors for synthesizing this crap.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I had kind of presumed anyone in the business of making controlled compound would read the DEA website for a number of important reasons.

But I certainly didn't mention anything not freely available elsewhere on the web and certainly have no hint as to novel precursors.

 

[axe battler]

People buying opioids and sedatives online face deadly fakes, expert warns

National Crime Agency reveals 65 people have died from taking nitazenes, which are up to 100 times stronger than heroin

www.theguardian.com

Glaah - they probably got the story reading our forums and the arsehole vendors using the nitazenes are gonna fuck it up for everyone. So frustrating as there are many companies selling the real pills.
Maybe I should make a newspaper specifically calling out the bullshit media articles with advice on wedinos testing and publishing known fakes.
Like VIZ but probably nowhere near as good and more angry. Anyone Wana get on staff??

 

[AlsoTapered]

Waltham Forest drugs gang busted over 'largest-ever stash' of synthetic opioids

Met Police seize 150,000 tablets of Nitazene after a series of raids across Enfield and Waltham Forest boroughs

walthamforestecho.co.uk

Made to look like 5mg diazepam tablets.

I think I am correct in noting that like fentanyl derivatives, the etonitazines are MUCH less active if consumed orally. Etonitazine was found to be x1500 M if IVed but only x60 M if swallowed (it was briefly tested as a treatment for opioid dependence).

Now I know that in the US some of those fake OxyContin 30mg tablets (dirty thirties) contained up to 15mg of fentanyl. Just imagine the vast OD if someone swapped from swallowing those pills to snorting them.

At the time I noted that the Mexican cartels are only out to help themselves and if someone ends up with a habit that needs several pills a day snorted, their is not dose of methadone compatible with life that would halt the withdrawal. Essentially it's a one way street.

Oh, and I will just mention again that etonitazene appears to be a superagonist. That means it produces a stronger physiological response than endogenous opiates (withdrawal will be protracted, painful and substitution therapy won't reverse the symptoms entirely). A one way street.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Waltham Forest drugs gang busted over 'largest-ever stash' of synthetic opioids

Met Police seize 150,000 tablets of Nitazene after a series of raids across Enfield and Waltham Forest boroughs

walthamforestecho.co.uk

Made to look like 5mg diazepam tablets.

I think I am correct in noting that like fentanyl derivatives, the etonitazines are MUCH less active if consumed orally. Etonitazine was found to be x1500 M if IVed but only x60 M if swallowed (it was briefly tested as a treatment for opioid dependence).

Now I know that in the US some of those fake OxyContin 30mg tablets (dirty thirties) contained up to 15mg of fentanyl. Just imagine the vast OD if someone swapped from swallowing those pills to snorting them.

At the time I noted that the Mexican cartels are only out to help themselves and if someone ends up with a habit that needs several pills a day snorted, their is not dose of methadone compatible with life that would halt the withdrawal. Essentially it's a one way street.

Oh, and I will just mention again that etonitazene appears to be a superagonist. That means it produces a stronger physiological response than endogenous opiates (withdrawal will be protracted, painful and substitution therapy won't reverse the symptoms entirely). A one way street.

I assume the difference between oral and IV is due to 1st pass metabolism, by the liver? If so, surely that means snorting a tablet is still incredibly dangerous, as drugs absorbed into the body that way bypass metabolism by the liver?

 

[AlsoTapered]

I don't know if their is any published information on the first-pass metabolism of etonitazine but I know it's often used in place of morphine in animal studies because in an appropriate solution concentration, it's tasteless. Maybe those

I suppose that suggests that it's duration of action must be similar to morphine.

It's interesting that people are making analogues. Is it because only etonitazeine and clonitazene are listed in the UNODC list? One would imagine a Markush structural definition would allow all of the potent homologues to be banned outright. I don't think their are any medicines that have a structure even close.

 

[dsd]

You evidently didn't read the thread. Their are YEARS of H in the pipeline, stored in various nations that lead from Afghanistan to Europe.

It might take a few years for the Shans to get back to full production but the civil was in Myanmar seems almost suspiciously convenient from the POV of someone who deals in large consignments.

Find it hard to believe there are years of H stored away. Even in the producing countries. I'd presume there is so much demand that the ' product' is on the move always.
Don't see Burma taking over Afghans role . Be years in the future. They didn't even make #3 H in the past. Maybe different now.
Guessing though.

 

[Ganjcat]

Greetings earthlings.. I come in peace

 

[Señor Moreno]

Find it hard to believe there are years of H stored away.

I don't know if years, of how much time can it last, but it has to be huge ammounts of opium stored for sure. The storage of any kind of comercial product isn't only a logistic matter but a way to regulate markets and prizes, a bussiness plan.
We wouldn't have seen heroin prizes remaining so consistent, more or less unvariable all these years, decades already, if them afghans were throwing into the markets the 100% of their anual production every year. Certain given year with a fantastic harvest we would have paid a few quids for a gram, while the next year, for whatever reason, we would have paid fortunes for a baggie.
Storage prevents those things to happen

 

[dsd]

^^ seems to be the consensus.
Hope some lands near me soon. New year has been absolutely dire round my way. Had some pure rubbish the other day, but people were still going back for it. Thank g*d, I got a script

 

[Jnowhere]

This is where my Brother @steewith2ees lives.

They would go to all with no deaths, Detroit back in the day, wouldn't do much, but children shot, these idiots obviously don't have dozens of gun ranges for target practice. OH that's right, people think a shooting is a big deal, unless there is more than one dead body, the cops in Detroit, not the suburbs, that is different, wouldn't investigate much and the locals would be like, I didn't see shit, or do shit or know shit, unless it were dead white people or Chaldians the cops wouldn't do much) there was an average of one murder a day and several shooting in a city with less than 900, 000 people. Now maybe less than 700,000 people) The cops might care about the kids, but no cameras and if it were a dead gang member, not much would be done, but street justice) besides handguns are carried by alot of average people legally,permits are easy to get to carry, to buy a handgun of an ak-47, ar-15, semi auto a telephone call background check or none if a private sale) I am shocked at how serious they took that, no deaths? Besides we have open carry, and no felonies no issue but maybe a quick police check. But The precautions they took and couldn't shoot worth shit is pathetic) to bad about the kids though. With all the non English people coming in you are going to see more. These gangs from Eastern Europe and Middle East, are going to make things bad. The cops with a hk mp5 sub machine gun, nice piece of hardware.) But that was a targeted arrest. London is getting more violent, that is a shame) I hear people being stabbed in the suburbs. They might get shot. In Ohio were I lived for 7 years, if you are 21 and not a criminal, you can legally carry a handgun concealed, no permit. Crime has gone down there)

 

[Jnowhere]

S

Bog or shitter also work too

O that's what bog means, ok thanks

 

[Jnowhere]

W

I live only a few miles from B1.
I can jump on the bus which is a direct route & be right in the middle of Brum in 30 mins & that is a Bus service with lots of stops. The Birmingham postcode ends only 2 towns over from where I am sitting right now.

Many of the people out on road have come from the city, they move down here as they have less chance of being stabbed or busted by the cops.

What is Nitrazine?

 

[axe battler]

W

What is Nitrazine?

Very strong opioiod that finding its was into street H as a cutting agent to make shit strong.
But dealers aren't mixing it properly and people are dying. Seems to be a large UK problem but is it found anywhere else?

 

[Jnowhere]

In the Junk game on the street I Trust NOBODY.

I am Polite & show Respect to "the man" & speak to him with NONE of the typical Chav / Roadman rubbish but would I want him in my flat / around the dog / feel 100% sure if we were pulled over by the Cops he wouldn't toss his Knife & Gun into my lap & make me get my prints on it FUCK NO!!!!!!!!

On the street I Trust me, myself & I

Smart man, seriously

 

[Jnowhere]

Very strong opioiod that finding its was into street H as a cutting agent to make shit strong.
But dealers aren't mixing it properly and people are dying. Seems to be a large UK problem but is it found anywhere else?

Wait until you guy get, fentanyl, then there will be a hugh death toll, it is only a matter of time, and some dumbass with a Chem degree, careful

 

[Jnowhere]

An Oxford University Doctor of Anthropology who has spent over 18 months in Rural Oaxaca de Juárez / Oaxaca did a Tarot reading at a Santa Muerte Temple for another Sicario, he told her about pulling out a mans teeth with random tools, he got to the point where the back teeth were CUT OUT with a Stanley Knife & the man was then FORCED TO EAT THEM FFS!!!!!!!!

Many Sicarios will burn people with Diesel instead of Petrol as it burns at a lower temp & causes more pain & a slower death.
You can hang a person upside down & cut off their fingers, toes, hands etc as the blood all goes to the head & they wont bleed out so fast, I have heard people saying this stuff & then laughing about it.

Go figure

Biden, has opened up boarder, this shit is happening here now, not too bad yet, but the Mexicans are racist and hate the blacks, they are always killing each other in California. Gang wars and stupid shit, that will get worse, funny thing is in areas where they let law abiding people carry guns, crime goes down.

 

[Jnowhere]

It's interesting to me that the UK has reasonably tight boarder control - it's an island. So a lot of users switched to using the darkweb to avoid having to buy stuff face-to-face. For a while Customs and Excise were hot on stopping those little packages arriving from Europe but I've noticed that in the last couple of years they have backed off.

It's the lesser of two evils.

Of course, now nitazenes are turning up, I'm sure they will be stopping that market and thus pushing people back onto the street and in harms way.

In the UK their are definitely two totally different distribution systems at play but the police evidently go after those whose product is being sold on the street.

If you just know people who quietly get on with their business, stick to a small number of regular customers and look after those customers, Delivery is the model that's turning up in some UK cities. I believe Glasgow is the furthest ahead but drug dependence is considered a medical issue, not a legal one so put those two ideas together and it minimizes harm.

Short of stopping ALL drug use which isn't possible.

Even the US is waking up to making weed legal so the police don't waste time on something that was only made illegal for political reasons (to stop hemp being grown to the advantage of those who owned the alternative - forests). Now mushrooms because nobody can even CLAIM it's causing harm.

Just make opium legal. Problem solved. It's been legal for 4300 years and has only been a problem since it was controlled.

Since they turned it to semi synthetic and now all synthetic, a couple thousand deaths is now approaching 100,000 per year. And what the hell do you do when a junkie has a greater tolerance than an ? Nitrazines are strong but fent is much worse, and carfentinil pops up sometimes or similar shit. Too many evil chemists, lol, they watched Breaking Bad to many times and now all sorts of nasty shit. People do a line of coke and die? WTF

 

[Jnowhere]

No - the coca plant is very selective in required conditions, altitude being just one requirement. At lower altitudes the plants produce an abundance of unwanted alkaloids.

Poppies just require sufficient sunlight and sufficient drainage and ironically, a cold period. So somewhere that is constantly hot is less suitable.

https://time.com/6358170/myanmar-opium-production-afghanistan/

Technology can hugely increase yields.

I am honestly surprised nobody is growing papaver bracteatum (great scarlet poppy) ostensibly to sell AS flowers (a lot ARE grown for this reason) because although they contain no morphine or codeine, they contain a lot of oripavine and thebaine. Maybe people are? Who would know?

Now the UNODC does control thebaine... but as a drug. Nations that control thebaine do so AS A DRUG. It's not, it's a POISON so exactly how THAT would work out in court would be interesting since their is a vast body of information stating that thebaine is a toxin!

But the key advantage is that the chemistry involved to convert oripavine and thebaine into respectively oxymorphone and oxycodone is as simple as H production but is scalable so someone can get into business and figure out which potent semisynthetics can be telescoped down to the skill-set of the average 'bucket cook'.

People are lazy now here, so the mexican cartels deal in meth made by illiterate peasants.

 

[Jnowhere]

The 'farm gate' price for Afghan opium WAS around $120/Kg and has now increased to a truly HUGE $400/Kg since the Taliban 'banned' growing it. Mexican heroin WAS $315-$415/Kg so how anyone can arrive at $500 million by any legitimate calculation is beyond me.

But please note - the price of opium is very low indeed. The street price of heroin has almost nothing to do with the price of opium. When you consider that a few acres are grown in the UK and The Czech Republic actually produces quite a lot while a huge amount is grown in Tasmania showing that the poppy does not require the arid, semi-desert environment people imagine.

US6067749A - Papaver somniferum strain with high concentration of thebaine and oripavine - Google Patents

There is disclosed an improved poppy straw of a stably reproducing Papaver somniferum for the extraction of thebaine and/or oripavine, the threshed straw having thebaine and oripavine constituting about 50% by weight or greater of the alkaloid combination consisting of morphine, codeine...

patents.google.com

Now the above patent is for what is referred to as the 'NORMAN strain', the brilliant acronym simply means No Morphine. What's interesting is the patent also notes the simplicity of converting thebaine to oxycodone and oripavine to oxymorphone. Actually, reflux in HBr will convert oxycodone to oxymorphone in about 87% yield so already one could reduce the amount of poppies needed to sustain the market.

I haven't tried oxymorphone but I've never read a report that didn't regard it as the most euphoric opioid available and it's x5 more potent than H. So in a low-tech manner one can, after the first harvest, have a highly desirable product.

BUT any medicinal chemist will point out that thebaine and oripavine are also valuable precursors. A little more sophisticated chemistry (Diels-Alder reaction) yields 6,14-Endoethenotetrahydrooripavine which isn't exactly a well known drug but is some x400 M in potency and is (from the two reports I have) subjectively almost identical to oxymorphone. Some more chemistry and one can arrive at M320, which is some x9200 M. Now that one I have no reprts on.

In essence, to anyone collecting long-term surveillance would see a legal enterprise; failing. By the time oxymorphine is hitting the streets the grower has switched to 6,14-Endoethenotetrahydrooripavine requiring only 10% the area of poppy production and by the time that hits the street M320 is the product and yet poppy production would, again, have dropped by 90%.

From that point their are actually a LOT of homologues possible.

The Mexican cartels actually started making fake codeine cough syrup