Does Phenibut blunt the effects of Psychedelics like other GABA agonists/modulators?

[Vastness]

Quick question for anyone with experience or relevant knowledge - is Phenibut likely to blunt the effects of Psychedelic drugs? Let's say tryptamines for example, but information on any other psychedelics is welcome.

I know it is fairly common knowledge that alcohol and benzos will do this, but is Phenibut the same, or is there any reason to think otherwise given it's slightly different action and subjective effects?

 

[Transform]

I would fully expect it to have some dulling effect but since it has minimal sedative effects I wouldn't expect this to be on a par with other depressants.

 

[InterestingFACT]

The consensus seems to be that it's the "least impactful" in this regard. Pretty good option if you feel you need a sedative but don't want to overly dull your trip.

 

[EarthBounded]

I personally believe phenibut can make a person more anxious.....

 

[AA357]

I am on 700mg Soma and 25mg 2C-E at the moment. I took the Soma shortly after the peak and I'm still tripping balls, I just feel a bit wobbly.

One time last year I took 40mg Valium to calm me down from a trainwreck 300mcg LSD trip (the most Valium I have ever taken to this date). I have no tolerance to Valium, so I started off with 20mg (which is a pretty heavy dose for me). 30 minutes later I still felt awful and ended up taking another 20mg. That totally killed my anxiety and made me feel great, but contrary to what I'd expected/been told, it did absolutely nothing to the visuals. At one point I vividly recall standing in my bedroom in a Valium-induced stupor staring at my fucking wardrobes for about 15 minutes. They were breathing and appeared to be opening and shutting by themselves... I was totally mesmerized by it. Those were some of the most awesome and vivid hallucinations I have ever experienced on any drug.

I don't find that GABAergics (Valium, GHB, Soma, alcohol) dull a trip at all. They'll certainly help with any anxiety but they don't have any antiserotonergic activity so don't expect them to reliably dull a trip.

 

[Vastness]

Thanks for your replies all.

I personally believe phenibut can make a person more anxious....

On psychedelics specifically? Or just in general?

I do somewhat agree, I suppose, either way, that Phenibut is a strange one. I do generally find it quite anxiolytic (as I think do most people) but I have also noticed some quite situationally specific anxiogenesis starting to creep in, usually when my frequency of use is higher than usual - my willingness to deal with unfamiliar situations is reduced, and this I think triggers an increased fear response, whereas in familiar settings I will be able to relax into the moment a lot more. With more infrequent dosing the negative effects are not noticeable in my experience however - I would be interested to hear your own experience, or any that you know of, where Phenibut has been anxiogenic.

I am on 700mg Soma and 25mg 2C-E at the moment. I took the Soma shortly after the peak and I'm still tripping balls, I just feel a bit wobbly.

One time last year I took 40mg Valium to calm me down from a trainwreck 300mcg LSD trip (the most Valium I have ever taken to this date). I have no tolerance to Valium, so I started off with 20mg (which is a pretty heavy dose for me). 30 minutes later I still felt awful and ended up taking another 20mg. That totally killed my anxiety and made me feel great, but contrary to what I'd expected/been told, it did absolutely nothing to the visuals. At one point I vividly recall standing in my bedroom in a Valium-induced stupor staring at my fucking wardrobes for about 15 minutes. They were breathing and appeared to be opening and shutting by themselves... I was totally mesmerized by it. Those were some of the most awesome and vivid hallucinations I have ever experienced on any drug.

I don't find that GABAergics (Valium, GHB, Soma, alcohol) dull a trip at all. They'll certainly help with any anxiety but they don't have any antiserotonergic activity so don't expect them to reliably dull a trip.

That's very interesting. To be perfectly honest I have not experimented with combining psychedelics with ANY GABAergics recently, and in my whole life time I have never experimented in a controlled setting where I would be easily able to tell either way. When I was younger I mixed alcohol and hallucinogens occasionally but drug strength and setting varied so much that looking back I really have no idea if there was any difference.

That said, I am fairly sure it has been widely anecdotally reported that there IS a dulling effect of some kind. I was thinking about this when I read your post earlier and didn't have time to respond, and it occurred to me that there are actually 2 relevant aspects to a psychedelic experience (or maybe more, but let's say 2 for simplicity's sake) - the visual element, and the introspective element, or "headspace". When I wrote this post I was admittedly mainly thinking about the visuals because hey, who doesn't like some nice psychedelic visuals, but also because the other more internal side of a trip is much harder (arguably, impossible) to actually quantify.

Following on from this train of thought, I would say it stands to reason that when your mind is clouded, you will be less able to appreciate or even perceive the more intricate aspects of the psychedelic headspace - although, of course, if reduced clarity of thought (as much as this term even makes any sense given the context) is the only issue, then it should also stand to reason that GABAergics that allow a clearer head should not have the same dulling effect. This is why I asked about Phenibut as in my experience, with infrequent use, even high doses do not affect mental acuity to any measurable degree. I do not have very much experience with benzos or other GABAergics but I would imagine that there are other such chemicals that might be similar at the right dose.

It is a bit late so I am not 100% sure I explained my thought process very well but I would appreciate your thoughts on this, regarding GABAergics effect on the headspace versus the visual aspect.


Also if anyone with a background in neurochemistry or just relevant knowledge, as ever, wants to chime in and explain why exactly GABAergics are supposed to inhibit psychedelia in serotonergic hallucinogens, or if, indeed this is the case at all, it would also be much appreciated!

 

[Xorkoth]

I have used phenibut a lot, and in my experience if it does blunt anything, it's very slightly. I've never noticed any blunting at all. It actually makes a great base to launch a trip from because of the euphoria and phenibut's ability to reduce anxiety. I've had some VERY euphoric trips before combining a good amount of phenibut and psychedelics.

 

[AA357]

That's very interesting. To be perfectly honest I have not experimented with combining psychedelics with ANY GABAergics recently, and in my whole life time I have never experimented in a controlled setting where I would be easily able to tell either way. When I was younger I mixed alcohol and hallucinogens occasionally but drug strength and setting varied so much that looking back I really have no idea if there was any difference.

That said, I am fairly sure it has been widely anecdotally reported that there IS a dulling effect of some kind. I was thinking about this when I read your post earlier and didn't have time to respond, and it occurred to me that there are actually 2 relevant aspects to a psychedelic experience (or maybe more, but let's say 2 for simplicity's sake) - the visual element, and the introspective element, or "headspace". When I wrote this post I was admittedly mainly thinking about the visuals because hey, who doesn't like some nice psychedelic visuals, but also because the other more internal side of a trip is much harder (arguably, impossible) to actually quantify.

Following on from this train of thought, I would say it stands to reason that when your mind is clouded, you will be less able to appreciate or even perceive the more intricate aspects of the psychedelic headspace - although, of course, if reduced clarity of thought (as much as this term even makes any sense given the context) is the only issue, then it should also stand to reason that GABAergics that allow a clearer head should not have the same dulling effect. This is why I asked about Phenibut as in my experience, with infrequent use, even high doses do not affect mental acuity to any measurable degree. I do not have very much experience with benzos or other GABAergics but I would imagine that there are other such chemicals that might be similar at the right dose.

It is a bit late so I am not 100% sure I explained my thought process very well but I would appreciate your thoughts on this, regarding GABAergics effect on the headspace versus the visual aspect.


Also if anyone with a background in neurochemistry or just relevant knowledge, as ever, wants to chime in and explain why exactly GABAergics are supposed to inhibit psychedelia in serotonergic hallucinogens, or if, indeed this is the case at all, it would also be much appreciated!

GABAergics are fucking awesome. Opiates and stimulants (even pure d-meth or cocaine) don't even come close. Soma, Valium and GHB are about as euphoric as pure MDMA or MXE for me... the only drugs I find more euphoric than GABAergics are psychedelics. Naturally I enjoy combining them with psychedelics.

I think what you said about how GABAergics affect the more intricate and personal aspects of the psychedelic headspace is spot on. Just one thing: you forgot to mention the body high as a third element of the psychedelic experience. The physical euphoria is separate to the visuals and headspace and it's actually my main reason for using psychedelic drugs.
If you're looking for a philosophical or spiritual experience then you're probably better off avoiding this combination. If all you're looking for is euphoria and nice visuals then you should love it.

I find MXE dulls the visuals of LSD quite a bit (probably due to antiglutamatergic activity), but the combo gets you righteously mangled. The only drugs that are known to reliably kill psychedelic trips are antipsychotics.

 

[Xorkoth]

I personally believe phenibut can make a person more anxious.....

Is this based on personal experience? For me, phenibut is a wonderful anxiolytic, one of the best I've ever encountered. It's quite reliable if you can get the dose right. Now, when I've taken too much, I have gotten anxious/weird feeling. I hear a lot of people taking way too much (IMO)... for me about 2 grams is perfect. The first time I took it, I took 3 grams and uncontrollably passed out after feeling very weird and unpleasant.

 

[jammin83]

OP, I think it's going to be different for each person. For me, phenibut doesn't dull anything out and is actually preferable to benzos so long as you use it sparingly. Even benzos don't dull the trip out for me. If you actually suffer from chronic anxiety then I think most GABAergics will kill a lot of anxiety but not much else. If you don't have anxiety issues or haven't ever used benzos extensively than you may get a blunting effect but I've never experienced that. Just kills the shitty parts for me. I am diagnosed with BP II so I deal with quite a bit of anxiety on a daily basis. YMMV.

 

[VerbalTruist]

In the past I gave it to someone who was having a terrible LSD trip in order to calm her down and it did the trick. While it didn't totally crash the trip it certainly made things less difficult. I would treat Phenibut like any other benzo, in regards to psychedelics.