Miscellaneous Does Mescaline work on SSRIs? Plus, why I hate SSRIs.

[Mycophile]

So, my brother keeps telling me he's heard that Mescaline works just fine while on SSRIs, but I have heard otherwise. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Regardless, I am upset because I have been on prozac for fucking 30 years and never realized till a few years ago that I should never have gotten on it in the first place and that psychedelics are so much better.

I do take shrooms sometimes, and I can get some effects, but they are always blunted, and I have some pretty terrible depression and anxiety which could really use the beneficial effects of an UNAFFECTED dose of a psychedelic.

Last month I took shrooms for probably like the 10th time in my life and all I got was 5 hours of DEEP despair. I guess they worked, but no visuals. Over the summer I did have a good trip on shrooms, some visuals, a few insights, but there's always the feeling that it's not what it could be.

I was recently watching some documentary where someone with horrible OCD tripped ONCE on shrooms and it was life changing and his OCD went away forever and he had all these blissful and incredible insights. Well, while i was in fucking despair on my last shroom trip I was wondering why someone with depression and anxiety like me couldn't be gifted such a beautiful life-changing experience as that guy, and the answer is obviously because a dumb doctor put me on prozac at age 14 and now I'm 43 and probably can't ever get off of it.

I mean, is it even REMOTELY safe for someone who has been on prozac for 30 years to EVER wean off? My doctor told me he doubted I could ever get off of it.

So yeah, I mean, if I ever wanted to take a quarter or more of shrooms or 5 hits of LSD (the most i've taken is 3 and I did trip) then MAYBE I'd get what I'm looking for, but I feel like I've been completely ripped off from being able to use REAL medicine for my condition.

What else, if not psychedelics, can really help a person like me with depression and anxiety who sees no way out and feels hopeless?

 

[phish69]

Dissociatives arent affected by ssris and have been shown to help depression.

I was on Remron which is an antidepressant but not an ssris that I heard stopped trips so I stopped taking it for a week before I dropped acid.

I've now been off it for like 2 weeks.

I felt like garbage the first couple days off it tho, but I tripped absolute balls off 300 ug 1cplsd when I took it.

Id stop taking shrooms if I were you if they're making you delressed tho.

 

[Mycophile]

Dissociatives arent affected by ssris and have been shown to help depression.

I was on Remron which is an antidepressant but not an ssris that I heard stopped trips so I stopped taking it for a week before I dropped acid.

I've now been off it for like 2 weeks.

I felt like garbage the first couple days off it tho, but I tripped absolute balls off 300 ug 1cplsd when I took it.

Id stop taking shrooms if I were you if they're making you delressed tho.

Which dissociatives? You mean like Ketamine? Yeah, I've been trying to find some for a while but haven't been able to. I'd like ketamine therapy to be honest.

But Mescaline's not a dissociative. Do you know if that works while on SSRIs? (Not that I can even find it now...)

Whats 1cplsd? You mean acid? LSD does work for me but it's been years since I've taken it. I can easily get shrooms but certain other stuff is harder to find.

Only my last shroom trip made me depressed, not the one before it which was nice. I know it has to do with what's going on in my life now, so it'll be a while before I use them again. Sometimes you aren't meant to have a great time on psychedelics. That's what more recreational drugs are for, but nevertheless I was hoping for something more revelatory.

 

[phish69]

Yes 1cplsd is an analogue that's just like LSD.

Yes dissociatives like ketamine. There's a couple dissociative research chems you could look into like dxme, dck, fxe, and 2-fdck.

I don't know if mescaline would work or not, I'm assuming you would have blunted effects if any.

Of course your doctor doesn't want you to try to wean off it, a lot of doctors don't know shit. If I were you I'd try to get off it. Maybe use some comfort meds like Ativan or Klonopin to help the anxiety you might feel while you stop taking it. Clonidine or gabapentin even.

 

[Mycophile]

Yes 1cplsd is an analogue that's just like LSD.

Yes dissociatives like ketamine. There's a couple dissociative research chems you could look into like dxme, dck, fxe, and 2-fdck.

I don't know if mescaline would work or not, I'm assuming you would have blunted effects if any.

Of course your doctor doesn't want you to try to wean off it, a lot of doctors don't know shit. If I were you I'd try to get off it. Maybe use some comfort meds like Ativan or Klonopin to help the anxiety you might feel while you stop taking it. Clonidine or gabapentin even.

I already take Klonopin but I want to try to wean off. I actually do think my psychiatrist is pretty knowledgable when it comes to psychiatrist drugs. I don't necessarily think he doesn't WANT me to stop prozac, I just asked him one time if he thought I'd ever be able to get off of it considering I've been on it for 30 years and he said "probably not." Truth is, it's very hard to get off SSRIs after that long and while I hope it's possible, it would certainly NOT be easy and would take a long time. It's not just simply something you stop.

Also, I kind of need some kind of medication for my anxiety and depression. If I didn't take anything prescribed I'd at least need to be using psychedelics probably on a semi-regular basis and maybe other types of drugs, but I'd rather do that.

Can you safely take all those dissociatives you mentioned while on prozac and Klonopin?

 

[phish69]

I think it would be safe if used in reasonable dosages

I just found something you might want to read about SSRIs and psilocybin

The Psilocybin-Blunting Effects of SSRIs and Antidepressants | Psychedelic Passage

This is the ultimate guide to pharmaceutical drug Interactions with psychedelics like psilocybin and LSD where we analyze clinical studies and anecdotal evidence.

www.psychedelicpassage.com

 

[Chris Timothy]

Can you safely take all those dissociatives you mentioned while on prozac and Klonopin?

Quick answer: no. Ketamine itself doesn't meddle with your serotonin systems, but analogues of it typically do. So you would have to make sure to stay clear from serotonin syndrome. (Actual serotonin syndrome requires a specific combination of serotonin mechanisms (as you know you can take psychedelics on ADs and have a safe experience) plus like always it is dose-dependent.. but combining serotonergic action requires extra care). On top of that, benzos can have unexpected interaction with dissociatives too. Not like with serotonin syndrome that it would get toxic out of nowhere, but that the effects of both can get weirdly and unexpectedly amplified.

As to whether you can quit ADs, I believe you can. For instance, to minimize inflammation I've completely quit carbs and caffeine at some point, like, things I really didn't think I could do without. Even if you have done something your whole life doesn't mean you're stuck with it. Your doctor is thinking statistically, and erring on the safe side. But since he's modelling the most complicated object in the known universe there's lotsa room for him to be wrong. It's completely possible to ween off of them ever so gradually, and tackle the extra challenges that arise that way one at a time as they present themselves. A little help of ketamine could be suited during such transition phase. But it carries great risks in itself, so it's more of a last resort. I'm sure you can discover other tools here on bluelight too to help you through.

Full disclosure: I haven't done this myself. I once build up an AD until it should have had its full effects, and judged the state to be way too dead and alien, and did the unwise thing of quitting cold turkey. I couldn't bring myself to eat any more of those pills, even in the name of tapering off, I preferred the brain zaps and feeling off for a year. (Of course I had been on 'em for three weeks, not three decades.) That's just me and my temperament. In a sense that's a kind of leap you'll always have to make at some point, but most of the magic will happen by easing in to changes, especially with these longer term effect meds.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Be VERY careful with cacti + SSRIs
Wouldn't venture there. Maybe even can die.
PURE mesc should be ok but I can't see why it would work for anyone for whom psilocin does not.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

On top of that, benzos can have unexpected interaction with dissociatives too. Not like with serotonin syndrome that it would get toxic out of nowhere, but that the effects of both can get weirdly and unexpectedly amplified.

Benzos + K interaction are well known and diazepam + K combo was/is used in medicine.
Not the combo you really want to do if you ain't into total anesthesia but please do explain if it's somehow more dangerous than K + booze. I think combo with booze is actually more dangerous cuz of death by vomit.

 

[Mycophile]

Be VERY careful with cacti + SSRIs
Wouldn't venture there. Maybe even can die.
PURE mesc should be ok but I can't see why it would work for anyone for whom psilocin does not.

Psilocybin and Psilocin DO work for me but they are probably blunted in comparison to someone who doesn't take SSRIs.

And what makes the cactus dangerous but NOT pure Mescaline? Are there other things in it that make it dangerous? I'm not sure you are correct that it is all that dangerous. What's your source?

 

[Mycophile]

Quick answer: no. Ketamine itself doesn't meddle with your serotonin systems, but analogues of it typically do. So you would have to make sure to stay clear from serotonin syndrome. (Actual serotonin syndrome requires a specific combination of serotonin mechanisms (as you know you can take psychedelics on ADs and have a safe experience) plus like always it is dose-dependent.. but combining serotonergic action requires extra care). On top of that, benzos can have unexpected interaction with dissociatives too. Not like with serotonin syndrome that it would get toxic out of nowhere, but that the effects of both can get weirdly and unexpectedly amplified.

As to whether you can quit ADs, I believe you can. For instance, to minimize inflammation I've completely quit carbs and caffeine at some point, like, things I really didn't think I could do without. Even if you have done something your whole life doesn't mean you're stuck with it. Your doctor is thinking statistically, and erring on the safe side. But since he's modelling the most complicated object in the known universe there's lotsa room for him to be wrong. It's completely possible to ween off of them ever so gradually, and tackle the extra challenges that arise that way one at a time as they present themselves. A little help of ketamine could be suited during such transition phase. But it carries great risks in itself, so it's more of a last resort. I'm sure you can discover other tools here on bluelight too to help you through.

Full disclosure: I haven't done this myself. I once build up an AD until it should have had its full effects, and judged the state to be way too dead and alien, and did the unwise thing of quitting cold turkey. I couldn't bring myself to eat any more of those pills, even in the name of tapering off, I preferred the brain zaps and feeling off for a year. (Of course I had been on 'em for three weeks, not three decades.) That's just me and my temperament. In a sense that's a kind of leap you'll always have to make at some point, but most of the magic will happen by easing in to changes, especially with these longer term effect meds.

I'm glad you think I could wean off my Prozac. I'm not sure I wouldn't need something else though. I used to get bad social anxiety before I took it that it helps me with. Is there anything natural a person could take for social anxiety that isn't really addictive or bad for you?

Why do you say that Ketamine "posts great dangerous in itself"? Even low doses? Even if applied by a therapist?

I mean, I've heard it can cause bladder damage if overused, but I have never heard that it's all that dangerous to use generally speaking once in a while.

 

[Chris Timothy]

Benzos + K interaction are well known and diazepam + K combo was/is used in medicine.
Not the combo you really want to do if you ain't into total anesthesia but please do explain if it's somehow more dangerous than K + booze. I think combo with booze is actually more dangerous cuz of death by vomit.

Valid point. Maybe benzos + dissociatives can be safe if fixed dosages are adhered to. Then again, so would alcohol + dissociatives then.. with the exception that alcohol use notoriously spirals out of control. (I should have quit drinking because I'm getting early cirrhosis symptoms. But you know, I made one exception, turned into a week of exceptions, then shit hit the fan IRL and didn't feel I had mental energy left to limit it. Now there's been more drunk DMs for people to stomach. Doesn't feel great.)

Just going off of the pharmacology, interaction with alcohol as well benzos should be similar. I guess I never had problems with combining alcohol and dissociatives because of my tolerance to alcohol. It's worth mentioning that the first deaths involving MXE, a surprisingly safe substance for being a dissociative (though heavily serotonergic), also involved alcohol.

I'm glad you think I could wean off my Prozac. I'm not sure I wouldn't need something else though. I used to get bad social anxiety before I took it that it helps me with. Is there anything natural a person could take for social anxiety that isn't really addictive or bad for you?

Why do you say that Ketamine "posts great dangerous in itself"? Even low doses? Even if applied by a therapist?

I mean, I've heard it can cause bladder damage if overused, but I have never heard that it's all that dangerous to use generally speaking once in a while.

I was thinking stimulants when writing it, you know even caffeine has gotten me through tough times. But those are not social-anxiety compatible I reckon. I wonder whether Semax could help you. It works directly on BDNF, what exercise clarity, dissociatives and psychedelics have in common. There are also gentler serotonergics. Theanine has surprised me in the past. But again, then we have to rule out serotonin syndrome first. Microdosing psychedelic mushrooms should be safe though, even though the effect blunting applies too. Small doses of muscimol could help too. It's a bit like benzos without significant addiction potential.

Ketamine is dangerous because.. well.. we had a big dissociative user die on us lately. I'm not gonna comment on it, we're still all grieving. I don't feel comfortable saying many positive things about them for the time being.

But I do think the main risk for them is an absence of protocol. Yes, a therapeutic setting solves that. But the effectiveness plus the prohibitive costs still might have you gravitate towards unmediated use. (If cost is no hurdle, by all means get a ketamine doctor).


Edit: CBD also could help with social anxiety. And even when weak substances like those don't work on their own, stacks of 'em sometimes do.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Psilocybin and Psilocin DO work for me but they are probably blunted in comparison to someone who doesn't take SSRIs.

And what makes the cactus dangerous but NOT pure Mescaline? Are there other things in it that make it dangerous? I'm not sure you are correct that it is all that dangerous. What's your source?

I wrote - maybe even can die - cuz I neither think it's all that dangerous.
But I stand with notion that cacti + psychiatric medicine and possibly a lot of other medicine is WAY more dangerous than in combo with mescaline. Cuz instead of combining mescaline with some medicine you would be combining tens if not hundreds of active chemicals that can interact in who knows what way with whatever you're taking it with.
Mescaline containing cactis are not only confirmed to contain various psychoactive or potentially psychoactive substance (a lot of which other then mesc ain't investigated at all, let alone enough so we can judge about interactions, we can only guess with many of those) but they contain other active, not psychoactive chemicals too. Possibly natural antibiotics and a lot of other stuff too. And out of psychoactives, they ain't even all that close to mesc and are sometimes closer to amphs or something else.
I would never recommend someone taking tens or hundreds of different substances present in various ratios with medicine known to cause bad interactions with a lot of substances. Some of those for sure can cause very bad interactions, you just have to be lucky enough and get a cacti that has significantly more of those than one someone other had no problems combining with SSRI or whatever.

To explain myself better as you misunderstood me a few things (by my fault) I wouldn't either recommend combining, strong or medication known to have bad interactions and/or is rather heavy on the body/brain even by itself with even various otc supplements. It isn't unknown people were stacking them till the point they harmed themselves like that and neither is unknown someone was unlucky or uniformed enough and combined some medicine with just one suplement end ended up having bad or even very bad reaction. And it doesn't have to be some uber exotic supplement, take ginko biloba or ginseng, they are common and pretty harmless and/or beneficial for most people and those who react bad, it's rarely worse than a headache. But they have such properties that with some recreational drugs and some prescription and otc drugs make for potentially very unpleasant bad reactions. And someone else maybe takes same and finds it beneficial, sometimes those are majority and sometime minority. And there are, combination wise far more dangerous supplements available at almost any pharmacy. This is such a serious problem that cuz of such a wide spread use of various supplements in developed countries and various redemies in some less developed that it wouldn't be out of ordinary that certain side-effects and even toxicity of some drugs and supplements might be in big part coming from such use. Ofc alcohol is a supplement that's well known for not being welcomed guest with a lot of medicine yet you can bet there are combos where ginko biloba or ginseng might pose a lot more danger than it.
Anyway, mescaline containing cactis are among most powerful plant medicine in the world so considering that once doing combos is of importance. And even effects that are otherwise not of particular danger like diarrhoea and vomiting can with some medicine be quite problematic in combo with some other drugs. Some combo might make that a lot worse. And in combo with some other drugs where hydration and electrolyte balance are important or maybe danger can come is some other way from water loss etc etc etc

 

[SpiralusSancti]

It works directly on BDNF, what exercise clarity, dissociatives and psychedelics have in common.

There's evidence SSRIs work like that too or that at least part of their efficiency comes from that (possibly that's why they also take that long to kick in for some people). And I think more so for MAOi ADs or better said they are more potent in that way. Not really a surprise I would say.

Ketamine is dangerous because.. well.. we had a big dissociative user die on us lately. I'm not gonna comment on it, we're still all grieving. I don't feel comfortable saying many positive things about them for the time being.

And countless more hurt in one way or another, over many years. Here and many I've people I've met irl would almost certainly be better if they didn't went down that road. Hell, maybe myself included, I don't believe so but maybe I can't see myself from right angle to understand that. But they sure did change me in a different way than psychedelics and possibly left some harm too. Was it worth it? I'll try to find out.

Dissos are both very wonderful and very dangerous drugs.

 

[Ismene2]

All the "Pure mescaline" I've ever bought was fake - just some shit 2c or whatever they put in it. Certainly not mescaline.

 

[Mycophile]

I wrote - maybe even can die - cuz I neither think it's all that dangerous.
But I stand with notion that cacti + psychiatric medicine and possibly a lot of other medicine is WAY more dangerous than in combo with mescaline. Cuz instead of combining mescaline with some medicine you would be combining tens if not hundreds of active chemicals that can interact in who knows what way with whatever you're taking it with.
Mescaline containing cactis are not only confirmed to contain various psychoactive or potentially psychoactive substance (a lot of which other then mesc ain't investigated at all, let alone enough so we can judge about interactions, we can only guess with many of those) but they contain other active, not psychoactive chemicals too. Possibly natural antibiotics and a lot of other stuff too. And out of psychoactives, they ain't even all that close to mesc and are sometimes closer to amphs or something else.
I would never recommend someone taking tens or hundreds of different substances present in various ratios with medicine known to cause bad interactions with a lot of substances. Some of those for sure can cause very bad interactions, you just have to be lucky enough and get a cacti that has significantly more of those than one someone other had no problems combining with SSRI or whatever.

To explain myself better as you misunderstood me a few things (by my fault) I wouldn't either recommend combining, strong or medication known to have bad interactions and/or is rather heavy on the body/brain even by itself with even various otc supplements. It isn't unknown people were stacking them till the point they harmed themselves like that and neither is unknown someone was unlucky or uniformed enough and combined some medicine with just one suplement end ended up having bad or even very bad reaction. And it doesn't have to be some uber exotic supplement, take ginko biloba or ginseng, they are common and pretty harmless and/or beneficial for most people and those who react bad, it's rarely worse than a headache. But they have such properties that with some recreational drugs and some prescription and otc drugs make for potentially very unpleasant bad reactions. And someone else maybe takes same and finds it beneficial, sometimes those are majority and sometime minority. And there are, combination wise far more dangerous supplements available at almost any pharmacy. This is such a serious problem that cuz of such a wide spread use of various supplements in developed countries and various redemies in some less developed that it wouldn't be out of ordinary that certain side-effects and even toxicity of some drugs and supplements might be in big part coming from such use. Ofc alcohol is a supplement that's well known for not being welcomed guest with a lot of medicine yet you can bet there are combos where ginko biloba or ginseng might pose a lot more danger than it.
Anyway, mescaline containing cactis are among most powerful plant medicine in the world so considering that once doing combos is of importance. And even effects that are otherwise not of particular danger like diarrhoea and vomiting can with some medicine be quite problematic in combo with some other drugs. Some combo might make that a lot worse. And in combo with some other drugs where hydration and electrolyte balance are important or maybe danger can come is some other way from water loss etc etc etc

Thanks for all the info. Yeah, I would think it would be extremely hard for me to ever find mescaline without the cactus. It's hard enough to find Peyote. There are Native American tribes near me i think that consume Peyote though and sometimes people can be allowed into their rituals, but now you have me thinking that that would not be a good idea. I wish I could just find pure Mescaline. Oh well, maybe someday. If not, it's not like I even know what I'm missing, and shrooms and LSD do work, even despite being somewhat less effective. I know if I took more I'd trip really hard, but my last trip wasn't so great so I think I'll be waiting a while before trying again...

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Thanks for all the info. Yeah, I would think it would be extremely hard for me to ever find mescaline without the cactus. It's hard enough to find Peyote. There are Native American tribes near me i think that consume Peyote though and sometimes people can be allowed into their rituals, but now you have me thinking that that would not be a good idea. I wish I could just find pure Mescaline. Oh well, maybe someday. If not, it's not like I even know what I'm missing, and shrooms and LSD do work, even despite being somewhat less effective. I know if I took more I'd trip really hard, but my last trip wasn't so great so I think I'll be waiting a while before trying again...

Where there's a will, there's a way. I would suggest making a crude extract first and than trying to go from there. Mesc extraction is in fact tricky. I have a friend that was capable of doing some pretty advanced stuff yet he failed his first peyote extraction, nothing went to waste but he first ended with a black goo.
I suggest you read up on mesc extraction and see if you can get everything needed for some procedure.
If no, or you simply don't wish to spend your time doing that, than maybe look for mescaline analogues. Some report them to be very close to mesc, even almost identical in most aspects.
I personally don't think you are on a huge loss, unless there's some special reason why mescaline would be less dampened than acid and shrooms and that's hardly the case. I think so cuz mescaline is more gentle as it is, not saying you can't trip on it as hard on acid or shrooms on huge doses but that with some dampening might end up even less intense than shrooms and acid.
I only tried San Pedro few times and am far from expert on those. My most intense trip was iirc 25g plus xtc pill or two, it was great, still very gentle and very subtle compared to even 100mics of acid plus xtc. And I think that if you need a few times more than normal dose it might be better to take 0.5mg of acid than grams of mesc.
I have feeling acid is probably best option out of common stuff if you intend to play around and see if you can up the dose until you reach intense trip.
Did you tried or plan to try DMT?
What about Salvia? It can be very unpleasant but also very rewarding and I think it should work just fine even you're on SSRIs.

 

[Mycophile]

Where there's a will, there's a way. I would suggest making a crude extract first and than trying to go from there. Mesc extraction is in fact tricky. I have a friend that was capable of doing some pretty advanced stuff yet he failed his first peyote extraction, nothing went to waste but he first ended with a black goo.
I suggest you read up on mesc extraction and see if you can get everything needed for some procedure.
If no, or you simply don't wish to spend your time doing that, than maybe look for mescaline analogues. Some report them to be very close to mesc, even almost identical in most aspects.
I personally don't think you are on a huge loss, unless there's some special reason why mescaline would be less dampened than acid and shrooms and that's hardly the case. I think so cuz mescaline is more gentle as it is, not saying you can't trip on it as hard on acid or shrooms on huge doses but that with some dampening might end up even less intense than shrooms and acid.
I only tried San Pedro few times and am far from expert on those. My most intense trip was iirc 25g plus xtc pill or two, it was great, still very gentle and very subtle compared to even 100mics of acid plus xtc. And I think that if you need a few times more than normal dose it might be better to take 0.5mg of acid than grams of mesc.
I have feeling acid is probably best option out of common stuff if you intend to play around and see if you can up the dose until you reach intense trip.
Did you tried or plan to try DMT?
What about Salvia? It can be very unpleasant but also very rewarding and I think it should work just fine even you're on SSRIs.

I know nothing about chemistry so I'm not sure I could do that, and I've never actually bought an RC online so I'd be cautious about pulling it off without getting in trouble and knowing that what I got was legit. I know most people here have done that but for me I've just gotten drugs the usual ways.

Is it actually really easy to do a San Pedro extraction?

I have done Salvia a bunch of times but it's been years. Yes, it has some unpleasant aspects at times but also some positive ones. I'll try it again at some point.

I have always wanted to try DMT but never found it before. Would I still be able to trip fully or at least somewhat and safely on DMT while still being on prozac?

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

Shrooms never helped treat my depressive symptoms, however Ketamine has.

 

[Mycophile]

Shrooms never helped treat my depressive symptoms, however Ketamine has.

Do you just use ketamine by itself or have you had it administered at a clinic?