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Phenethylamines DOC vs 2C-x vs LSD cross tolerance

A

Al_S_Dee

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May 24, 2006
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I am going on a mini-vacation for three days. I plan on doing DOC (about 2mg) on Day 1, 2C-I or 2C-E or 2C-T7 on Day 2, and perhaps some good old candyflipping (LSD + MDMA) on Day 3. I know it's pretty heavy duty but I don't do this often and in such close intervals but this is my rare exception.
Since the DOC lasts so long I plan on taking it the first day of the vacation

I was wondering if there are any cross tolerances between these substances, especially between DOC and the 2Cs. Out of the 2Cs, which one would be recommended on Day 2 (2CI, 2CE, or 2CT7) keeping in mind of the previous day's DOC excursion. Finally, is there any MAOI effect from any of these substances that I should be aware of that can cause issues. Please do note that I don't plan to overlap any of the substances (except the candyflip with LSD + MDMA) and I plan to get a nights rest between the days.
I'd love to get some input/advice/comments from experienced psychonauts.

Thanks!
 
Yes, there is cross tolerance. I recently did 2C-I one night then LSD the night after. My LSD hits are 100ug and it was a beautiful LSD trip but it felt more like ~85ug. It does work, you're just gonna have to use higher doses than you are used to.
 
delta_9 said:
Yes.
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But LSD additionally is active at all sorts of other receptors, right? And possibly the 2C-xs and DOxs are too... So there may not be perfect overlap among the different serotonergic psychs... For instance, one might assume that - if, for instance, the hypothesis that the auditory effects of DiPT are mediated by the 5HT6 receptor is right - that a less auditory psychedelic with little or no 5HT6 activity might not show so much cross-tolerance with DiPT.

I'm just speculating wildly here; but it seems to me that, despite their unity, there is diversity too among the effects of the serotonergic psychedelics; and that this diversity may reflect some diversity in the receptor subtypes they specialize in; which in turn may mean that there are varying degrees of cross-tolerance.
 
Yes, psychedelics show activity at other receptors. Lsd for example, is active at dopamine and histamine receptors, possibly others. But the main activity of serotonergic psychedelics is agonism of 5ht2a, so there is going to be significant cross tolerance among them all.
 
delta_9 said:
Yes, psychedelics show activity at other receptors. Lsd for example, is active at dopamine and histamine receptors, possibly others. But the main activity of serotonergic psychedelics is agonism of 5ht2a, so there is going to be significant cross tolerance among them all.
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Oh sure, I wasn't disagreeing with that. Just wondering whether - even though the main effects are via 5HT2a - there might be differences enough (if the 5HT6 auditory hypothesis is right, that's a whole bunch of sensory psychedelia happening somewhere other than 5HT2a) that it makes sense to ask questions about which psychedelics to take when (as the OP is asking)... maybe 2CI has more overlap with DOC than 2CE does, say, enough so that it would be notably more worthwhile to take 2CE the day after DOC than 2CI.
 
^So just curious, what are (if any) the non-serotonergic psychedelics?

Yes, I'd like to do substances that are the most orthogonal to each other thus having the least cross tolerance.
 
Al_S_Dee said:
^So just curious, what are (if any) the non-serotonergic psychedelics?
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Don't some people actually define psychedelic to mean only the serotonergic ones? Whereas others would include any substance that can make a claim to being mind-expanding, so including cannabis, ketamine, salvia, etc?
 
^So just curious, what are (if any) the non-serotonergic psychedelics?
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Depends on what you consider "psychedelic". Dissociatives like ketamine, pcp, dxm etc are NMDA antagonists. Salvia is a kappa opioid agonist. Deliriants like dramamine, diphenhydramine, etc are anticholinergics.
By strict definition, none of these are "psychedelic" though.
 
^Understood. There was a beautiful chart on wikipedia that shows a lot of psychoactive drugs and their effectual overlaps but I can't find it right now.

So it seems all the substances in my armada (except MDMA) are serotonergic psychedelics thus having a definite cross tolerance.
 
While I'd say non serotonogic drugs like cannabinoids & ketamine are psychedelic (as in psychedelic meaning 'mind revealing', which is where Humphrey Osmond took the name from), I really don't think you can call anticholinergic deleriants psychedelic as with them there is no thought progression (building/expanding upon an idea) due to the extreme amnesia that comes with buggering up acetylcholine's actions in memory storage
 
DOC-->2c-x-->LSD, as you planned, would be the best order, IMO, due to the increasingly large effective dose to toxic dose ratio and the need to compensate for cross-tolerance
 
Just check the ol' El goog for LSD receptor affinity or something close to that. It's to be found. Any receptor will go into hiding after being bombarded day in and day out, day after day after day regardless of the class of drug it is. Day.

I'm happy for you, but I've grown more leery/leary as I've tripped too much. I wonder if there are serious brain changes even from non-neurodestructive drugs and their overuse, similar to kindling theory. Overtime I'd think the brain might start upregulation of those receptors which are excessively active and eventually more activity in that area. But I've also seen fmri's of drug users, probably stim abusers :), that have tissue loss throughout the brain and especially in the good parts. The parts that I like. A lot. Really I do. Like them. I've had plenty of paper that was DOB or DOI and I had a quantity of DOC a couple summers ago that "the guy" had mixed with MDMA to increase the volume of it(dummy) which I forgot about somehow (dummier). I've never been the same since.

I agree on the order. I get an afterglow off DOC that marijuana increases to the point of stupidly fried bliss. I don't recommend it if you have to work the next day or are currently on the job/driving. I hope your vacation goes well. Don't say where you're going, but I hope it is outside :). I'm smiling thinking about tripping, but I don't want to do it. Have fun.

Peace,
PL
 
^Yeah I understand your theory - though I think down-regulation occurs rather than up-regulation of excessively active receptors. Anywho, I don't usually trip in such close time spans; I certainly don't have the time that I used to back in the heydays to partake in such long innerspace excursions so this is definitely an exception. I will be outside in a musical environment so I'd like to be altered in the right ways.
How is music on DOC? Enjoyable?
 
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