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  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Do You Believe In Aliens?

Xorkoth said:
But the sheer size of the universe suggests that nearly anything is not only possible, but likely. However, given the extremely narrow time window that is likely for such a civilization, and the different times that a planet would have begun to develop life, I think civilization is probably sparsely peppered throughout the known universe. But given there are at least 1 hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe, and billions to hundreds of billions of stars in EVERY SINGLE ONE... well, the math is staggering. It renders nearly any probability almost certain.
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I imagine it on a spacetime plot. If you use a space plot (XYZ) and consider today (this moment), then we may be the only life in the universe, or one of the few. But if you use a spacetime plot (which includes time), then I think there are a lot of lives in this universe. We may not cross each other either on the temporal scale, or the space ones.
 
I think honestly given the numbers of stars (in the order of a hundred billion squared, I don't even know how to describe that number), we're probably not even the only intelligent life right now. I mean the size is absolutely staggering. But I do think we're incredibly unlikely to ever come across any other intelligent life because it's likely still extremely rare at any given point in time in any given location.
 
This is one of the better videos IMO on the subject of aliens and why they were likely here a long time ago actually. It's long but you'll be convinced there is something very wrong with what they've been telling us about human history in the first 15 minutes. If you're not you can skip the rest. It's pretty interesting IMO.
 
Xorkoth said:
I think honestly given the numbers of stars (in the order of a hundred billion squared, I don't even know how to describe that number), we're probably not even the only intelligent life right now. I mean the size is absolutely staggering. But I do think we're incredibly unlikely to ever come across any other intelligent life because it's likely still extremely rare at any given point in time in any given location.
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Yes, as I said in my previous post, there may be more than this life at this point in time. But information travels slowly, at the speed of light. If that other life is in another galaxy, say 10 million lightyears (Mly) apart, they will only find out about us in 10 million years from now - chances are, humans will not be the same, if existing at all. And that's IF the electromagnetic radiation typical to our intelligent life even makes it there, and they're able to receive it, decypher it and whatnot.
 
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Ah yes, good point. I think it's only remotely likely aliens have visited us if faster than light travel is possible somehow, say, via black holes or something.
 
On some very remote chance. Matter doesn't go faster than light speed iirc.
 
Well like if it's somehow possible to fold spacetime a la wormholes, or something we haven't even imagined. It's possible something like that is real.
 
belligerent drunk said:
Yes, as I said in my previous post, there may be more than this life at this point in time. But information travels slowly, at the speed of life. If that other life is in another galaxy, say 10 million lightyears (Mly) apart, they will only find out about us in 10 million years from now - chances are, humans will not be the same, if existing at all. And that's IF the electromagnetic radiation typical to our intelligent life even makes it there, and they're able to receive it, decypher it and whatnot.
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well to send information per EM radiation, the signal has to have some ordered structure (pulses) in any case, it cannot be a truly random signal (like the CMBR), so even if they won't be able to decypher it, it will be obvious that it is artificial and not a natural phenomenon. (if their scientific knowledge is advanced enough)

but yeah, regarding the timescales information needs to overcome, you are completely right.

ad wormholes: apparantly the equations for an einstein-rosen-bridge (wormholes are theoretically two entangled black holes) suggest that, while theoretically being a bridge between two different points in space, you'd be still trapped inside a black hole (or rather between two black holes), so if wormholes exist, you might be able to go inside, but never be able to exit the other side. at best you could meet somebody in the middle who enters te other black hole, of course if you don't get killed while entering the black hole.

but I am no expert on this, just saw this in a stanford physics lecture (see youtube: leonard susskind EPR)
 
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Wouldnt energy also travel through a wormhole causing a feedback loop?
 
Bagseed said:
well to send information per EM radiation, the signal has to have some ordered structure (pulses) in any case, it cannot be a truly random signal (like the CMBR), so even if they won't be able to decypher it, it will be obvious that it is artificial and not a natural phenomenon. (if their scientific knowledge is advanced enough)
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Yeah, I didn't really mean they have to translate the EM radiation they're receiving into a South Park episode. What I meant is that they'd need to somehow make sure it isn't just cosmic noise coming from whatever source. I'm not much of a physicist. What would happen to all sorts of EM radiation being currently emitted from Earth if it were to travel such distances? Would the intensity be enough to even detect it?
 
I imagine the and repetitive nature of the signal may be what would make human radio transmissions obviously artificial as bagseed said (though the whole idea of pulsars somewhat tests that idea). I guess if a lifeform had been monitoring the skies for at least, what, 100 years they would have noticed the sudden change in signals emerging from our universal address. Amongst randomness, order really jumps out.

Isn't that essentially what SETI are looking for?

As a love of sci-fi, I desperately want to believe that, when I gaze upon the endless heavens, I am potentially processing photons emitted by a massive galactic empire somewhere far, far away. In fact, I think that the size of the universe means that some kind of sort of sprawling civilisation probably dominates a tiny corner somewhere. I bet the think they are gods chosen too ;)
 
My thought was that there are a lot of sources of different long-wave EM radiation on Earth, that maybe from the outside it looks like complete random garbage. But maybe not, right?
 
I don't believe or simply conceive that there could be any other intelligent life outside of Earth.

We're all just a really beautiful one-off aberration IMO.
 
I'd be conceded of I thought there weren't a possibility that in the entire universe and one hundred billion galaxies, the only life that exists is on a tilted rock in a small solar system.
 
Yeah probability-wise I think it's ludicrous to think that life only exists on one planet around one star in one galaxy out of a hundred billion galaxies (that we've detected). Strikes me as similar to the religious idea that we're so special that we're god's chosen people, the center of the universe.

We know for sure that intelligent life arose here... so the possibilities are either that it would arise occasionally elsewhere too in the effectively infinite universe (a hundred billion galaxies? The scale is staggering, incomprehensibly vast), through the process of incremental evolution, or that there is some intelligent creator who decided for some reason to wave its hand and create us here on this planet, and nowhere else.
 
I'd like to believe that intelligent life exists elsewhere too. However if everyone thought this planet, our home called Earth, was indeed the only planet ever capable of producing such an amazing 'thing' called Life, would everyone start treating it a little better?
 
Hmmm... maybe. I kinda doubt that. I mean we don't currently have the capacity to move elsewhere, given a lot of time and effort we could probably colonize Mars but we're not there yet. And yet, we're steadily fucking the place up.

I wouldn't want to go live somewhere else anyway. I feel like I'm part of the Earth. I'd love to be able to visit other planets, but I feel like I'd feel unimaginably homesick.
 
Humans have been faced with many other incentives and the majority fail.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
This is one of the better videos IMO on the subject of aliens and why they were likely here a long time ago actually. It's long but you'll be convinced there is something very wrong with what they've been telling us about human history in the first 15 minutes. If you're not you can skip the rest. It's pretty interesting IMO.
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Evolution therory realy is a myth. It comes against the dna facts.
 
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