Need Help Do seizures always make you lose consciousness and are they always/usually dangerous/life threatening?

[Mycophile]

The question is in the title, and I'll explain more if people answer. I've had threads on here recently because through combinations of alcohol, kratom, weed, and the first time, Phenibut, i had some really fucked up scary shit happen that some people called akisthisia or glutamate surge but people did all kinds of debating in my several threads on this about what really happened to me and what the cause might be. I think all drugs played a role, I think Kratom may lower the seizure threshold, and I also think dehydration/low electrolytes and excitotocity could have played roles. I'll describe my symptoms and the scenarios surrounding them in more detail if people respond in here.

I've been led to believe that usually seizures mean you go unconscious or don't know what's happening, but is that just the worst kind/one kind of seizure? Because I didn't lose consciousness during these 3 "episodes", but I'm scared that I've been doing some drug combos that could potentially kill me from how scary these episodes have been, but unbelievably, I love kratom and alcohol so much, and don't love my life at the moment, that I have a hard time seeing myself entirely quitting one or both UNLESS I truly believe my life is in danger, which, it might or might not be...

I am considering seeing a neurologist to find out if I have brain damage, but IF I don't, does that mean these episodes weren't dangerous? They felt dangerous.

I generally experienced akisthisia/terror of being in my own body, followed by a sudden drop in body temperature and uncontrollable shaking and shivering. The first episode was over in a couple minutes, but the second lasted a half hour till Klonopin kicked in, which stopped it. The last one only lasted a minute or so and I was cold and shivering but it stopped on its own. I want to somehow believe these weren't dangerous, but they must have been. I want to believe i can keep drinking and using kratom, and MAYBE it's ok if I don't use one if the other ISN'T in my system? I don't know.

It's late so that's as much as I'll describe for now, but I can go into more detail later.

Do I need to see a doctor? Is there any possible (or LIKELY) way that this kind of thing ISN'T super dangerous and life threatening? Is the fact that I take Klonopin and have it on hand likely to save me?

I'm scared of going into a doctor's office and even using the words "kratom" or "phenibut", scared of getting a brain scan, scared of quitting kratom or alcohol (I think I have quit Phenibut...), but most of all scared of dying or having this shit happen again. Someone please give me some advice.

 

[cdin]

seizures can manifest in several different ways. I have had these exact symptoms but never read them as a seizure, i did feel terrified by them. That being said, there are some conscious and some unconscious seizures. I will say i stopped having these symptoms when i stopped doin so much shit, especially booze.

if you DO get scanned - id love to know what they say.
quitting drinking was the best decision i ever made in my adult life.

 

[Mycophile]

seizures can manifest in several different ways. I have had these exact symptoms but never read them as a seizure, i did feel terrified by them. That being said, there are some conscious and some unconscious seizures. I will say i stopped having these symptoms when i stopped doin so much shit, especially booze.

if you DO get scanned - id love to know what they say.
quitting drinking was the best decision i ever made in my adult life.

Thanks. I REALLY don't want to quit drinking or kratom though. I'm going to sleep so I'll read this tomorrow, but from what little I've described, do you think I'll have to?

And when you had these symptoms, what caused them? Did you get a scan? Do you think I need to tell doctors what I took? Cause I don't want to be banned from pain killers for life since kratom is an opioid. I could get injured cause I have before doing martial arts, and I take Klonopin and don't want to be labeled an addict.

What if I just didn't use kratom and alcohol in close proximity to eachother? Couldn't the kratom increase likelihood of seizure? Some sources say it does. I never had this from booze or kratom or phenibut by themselves, just together.

 

[cdin]

Thanks. I REALLY don't want to quit drinking or kratom though. I'm going to sleep so I'll read this tomorrow, but from what little I've described, do you think I'll have to?

And when you had these symptoms, what caused them? Did you get a scan? Do you think I need to tell doctors what I took? Cause I don't want to be banned from pain killers for life since kratom is an opioid. I could get injured cause I have before doing martial arts, and I take Klonopin and don't want to be labeled an addict.

What if I just didn't use kratom and alcohol in close proximity to eachother? Couldn't the kratom increase likelihood of seizure? Some sources say it does. I never had this from booze or kratom or phenibut by themselves, just together.

well i mean, drinking regularly w a benzo Rx is basically just a recipe for shredding your GABA receptors. IMO pick one, because using them together causes all kinds of problems both on and coming off. And not sure what to tell you about the rest, experiment I guess, but for me - it cleared up when i stopped taking substances constantly.

 

[thatmf]

I thought at one point I had a focal-tonic seizure. Had an electroencephalogram (EEG) and everything was normal. It felt a bit strange, they basically use jelly to attach electrodes to your scalp. But nothing invasive. I think it's just a combination of too many drugs man. If you're mixing booze and benzos you risk blacking out or worse.

An actual seizure can happen *whenever* and a person might flop to the ground and eyes will roll to the back of their head, they might be convulsing still. I saw this happen not long ago. Within 30 seconds the guy was sitting up again like nothing happened. A seizure is a complete loss of consciousness most of the time. Maybe see if you can get an EEG but I wouldn't be too worried. Just go easy on your drugs of choice if you can't quit them.

 

[Mycophile]

well i mean, drinking regularly w a benzo Rx is basically just a recipe for shredding your GABA receptors. IMO pick one, because using them together causes all kinds of problems both on and coming off. And not sure what to tell you about the rest, experiment I guess, but for me - it cleared up when i stopped taking substances constantly.

But which substances were you using regularly/heavily other than just alcohol is part of what I'm asking?

Also, another thing has been happening the past week which I HOPE is a new Kratom WD symptom because I was using more and suddenly started taking days off: every day when I wake up I'm cold for a couple minutes and VERY MILDLY shivering. Not intensely like these episodes, but still a little. It's kind of freaky cause I'm under 3 blankets and a sheet, but it's not severe and then it just passes pretty quickly and doesn't happen for the rest of the day. It started Tuesday which was the first day I decided not to use Kratom, only my body would not have been aware of that yet when I woke up around noon since I usually take my first dose between like 1:30-3:30, but I knew I'd been overusing it. Today when it happened I was able to comfort myself by telling myself it's just the chills from Kratom WD, but the past few days I've been freaking out that it's a sign of brain damage.


OBVIOUSLY, you are not a doctor, but does it sound to you like I have done myself SERIOUS permanent brain damage? I mean, how many times did this happen to you, and do you think you have serious brain damage? We must all have SOME because nearly every drug kills brain cells, but the question is the severity.

And, do you think if I actually went to my GP to get a referral for a neurologist that I HAVE to tell him and the neurologist that I've used Kratom (and Phenibut), or could i try to pretend it's just the drinking? Because don't you think if I mention Kratom and they look it up and find out it's an opioid I'll be blacklisted and cut off from opiate medication if I'm ever injured again for fear of being a danger to myself? I CANNOT let that happen, especially if I were ever to quit Kratom which is great for pain but I can't sleep on it like I could one Oxys or Hydros when I was injured in the past with torn ACLs.

 

[Mycophile]

I thought at one point I had a focal-tonic seizure. Had an electroencephalogram (EEG) and everything was normal. It felt a bit strange, they basically use jelly to attach electrodes to your scalp. But nothing invasive. I think it's just a combination of too many drugs man. If you're mixing booze and benzos you risk blacking out or worse.

An actual seizure can happen *whenever* and a person might flop to the ground and eyes will roll to the back of their head, they might be convulsing still. I saw this happen not long ago. Within 30 seconds the guy was sitting up again like nothing happened. A seizure is a complete loss of consciousness most of the time. Maybe see if you can get an EEG but I wouldn't be too worried. Just go easy on your drugs of choice if you can't quit them.

Thanks for not freaking out someone who already has an anxiety disorder lol. Although the truth is, I should want ANY REAL information, scary or not.

What drugs did you use that you thought led to the potential seizure? Since you say it wasn't a seizure, did they have a different name for it? What was it?

And did you have to tell them all the drugs you used? Like I've explained, I'm afraid to tell them I've used Kratom because I have been injured and could get injured again and I'd need access to Oxys or Hydros. I can't sleep on Kratom cause it's too stimulating and when injured I need regular opioids to sleep on and I would not want to have to resort to looking on the street because of being blacklisted. My therapist told me "don't worry, doctors have HIPPAA laws to protect your confidentiality," BUT...i don't necessarily know if those count when they consider you a "risk to yourself." I've heard FAR too many stories of doctors cutting patients off their meds. Not to mention I need my Klonopin so i can NEVER tell my psychiatrist, but fortunately he isn't connected to the same medical group who I would go to see. However, any doctor at this group COULD contact my pharmacy and simply ask for my psychiatrist's name and contact info and tell him I should be taken off my Klonopin because of excessive drinking and Phenibut. Then I'd be FUCKED even though I do have a good stock that could last a while. But would they REALLY do that? I'm thinking maybe not, BUT...the Kratom = opioid = now you can never be prescribed one again-thing...that's fucking reality man...

 

[Mycophile]

I mean, if I DID want to get a scan I'd need a referral and have to tell my GP or at least his nurse practitioner, and I REALLY don't feel comfortable telling them about Kratom or Phenibut, so could i simply tell them that I was drinking heavily (and I guess they already know I taken Klonopin...) and smoked some weed (legal where I am) and then these episodes occurred? Cause I don't necessarily need to know the cause, I would just want the brain scan. Regardless of what it says, I'd know that there were other drugs involved, and I'd still have that info. So do I NEED to tell them about Kratom and Phenibut? (Also, I only took Phenibut during the 1st episode, but that seems to have led to the future ones...)

 

[thatmf]

What drugs did you use that you thought led to the potential seizure? Since you say it wasn't a seizure, did they have a different name for it? What was it?

And did you have to tell them all the drugs you used? Like I've explained, I'm afraid to tell them I've used Kratom because I have been injured and could get injured again and I'd need access to Oxys or Hydros. I can't sleep on Kratom cause it's too stimulating and when injured I need regular opioids to sleep on and I would not want to have to resort to looking on the street because of being blacklisted. My therapist told me "don't worry, doctors have HIPPAA laws to protect your confidentiality," BUT...i don't necessarily know if those count when they consider you a "risk to yourself." I've heard FAR too many stories of doctors cutting patients off their meds. Not to mention I need my Klonopin so i can NEVER tell my psychiatrist, but fortunately he isn't connected to the same medical group who I would go to see. However, any doctor at this group COULD contact my pharmacy and simply ask for my psychiatrist's name and contact info and tell him I should be taken off my Klonopin because of excessive drinking and Phenibut. Then I'd be FUCKED even though I do have a good stock that could last a while. But would they REALLY do that? I'm thinking maybe not, BUT...the Kratom = opioid = now you can never be prescribed one again-thing...that's fucking reality man...

I was only taking light benzos at the time. Clonazepam. I wouldn't worry too much man. It's probably anxiety + what you take overloading your GABA receptors and making you freak out and feel like you're having a seizure. Seizures are usually random. You're pretty much protected with confidentiality if you do access the health system for treatment. Maybe don't tell them what you're taking but rather how you feel. But there's a chance they'll know you're taking drugs, even if you don't tell them. . I don't know man just slow down imho

 

[TotalTotalness]

Some years ago I had my first grand mal seizure after two sleepless nights on amphetamine and alcohol and then tryin to knovk myself with 1.5-2 g ofnpregabalin. I was using pregabalin from time to time and never had problems with it before, but after that one time, every time I use pregabalin, even in lower doses and by itself I go in seizureland...I had around 5-6 grand mals and in the last ones i havent even been using pregabalin, so i went into an epilepcy clinic, but everything showed up fine...i seized using pregabalin and since then i havent experienced any seizures for 6-7 years now.

Recently I decided to use some gabapentine, while in morphine withdrawal and was really anxious if im gonna go epileptic mode from it too, but nothing happened and could enjoy some relief

Seizures are strange. Once you experience them, I think its easyer to get them again and again

Edit: every time in seizure i lost consciousness fully and fel down, breaking my face/dislocating my shoulder and other traumas, so its potentially quite dangerous. I had people around me, who stupidly tried to get my tongue out, so that i dont swallow it...this is wrong. During a seizure, if you put your hands into the persons mouth, you can say goodbye to your fingers. Just put the person in a safe position so that he doesnt choke on his spit and the face tilted down a bit...one girl seized on a party a while ago and the people went nutz - used keys to open her mouth, breaking her teeth, so that they can "save her from swallowing her tongue"...poor girl

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

No, and no.
Epileptic seizures are rarely fatal and usually the only danger is injury when falling.
With grand mal seizures, yes, you always lose consciousness, but with many types of seizures you don't. I also have "absence" seizures where it just looks like I'm day dreaming or staring off into space and even "focal seizures" where I'm mentally not there but my body can kind of run on autopilot like carrying out basic tasks and even speaking.

 

[Mycophile]

Some years ago I had my first grand mal seizure after two sleepless nights on amphetamine and alcohol and then tryin to knovk myself with 1.5-2 g ofnpregabalin. I was using pregabalin from time to time and never had problems with it before, but after that one time, every time I use pregabalin, even in lower doses and by itself I go in seizureland...I had around 5-6 grand mals and in the last ones i havent even been using pregabalin, so i went into an epilepcy clinic, but everything showed up fine...i seized using pregabalin and since then i havent experienced any seizures for 6-7 years now.

Recently I decided to use some gabapentine, while in morphine withdrawal and was really anxious if im gonna go epileptic mode from it too, but nothing happened and could enjoy some relief

Seizures are strange. Once you experience them, I think its easyer to get them again and again

Edit: every time in seizure i lost consciousness fully and fel down, breaking my face/dislocating my shoulder and other traumas, so its potentially quite dangerous. I had people around me, who stupidly tried to get my tongue out, so that i dont swallow it...this is wrong. During a seizure, if you put your hands into the persons mouth, you can say goodbye to your fingers. Just put the person in a safe position so that he doesnt choke on his spit and the face tilted down a bit...one girl seized on a party a while ago and the people went nutz - used keys to open her mouth, breaking her teeth, so that they can "save her from swallowing her tongue"...poor girl

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. From my descriptions, do you think I was having seizures or something else? And of course you are just some random guy, but does it sound like what happened to me was life threatening and/or likely to cause permanent damage?

What would you do in my situation if you 1) most importantly didn't want that to happen again but ALSO 2) didn't want to completely quit either alcohol or Kratom? 3) Were scared of letting doctors know I used Kratom (or phenibut the one time) and scared of seeing doctors at all? Should I just see one and leave out that info and just say I was drinking and smoking weed which I'm comfortable admitting to?

I'm obviously an addict because of part 2, but aren't we all...I'm just not very happy with my life and I like these substances, BUT if someone told me that I was doing myself permanent damage or could likely die from these episodes, then I'd certainly do SOMETHING to modify my behavior. Even if they aren't dangerous, they do seem to be occurring more since the first one, and they scary as fuck so I don't want them to happen again. I'm torn between options. I don't want to have to tell doctors, and some people are telling me that a scan/MRI or whatever probably wouldn't even show anything. If I was really smart I'd just never drink or do kratom again whether or I see a doctor or not, but I mean...NEVER drinking again? Seriously? With how subpar I'm finding my life right now you would have to prove to me I was doing something really bad before I'd stop, and Kratom is one of the only things that really helps with my depression and anxiety when I'm low.

 

[Mycophile]

No, and no.
Epileptic seizures are rarely fatal and usually the only danger is injury when falling.
With grand mal seizures, yes, you always lose consciousness, but with many types of seizures you don't. I also have "absence" seizures where it just looks like I'm day dreaming or staring off into space and even "focal seizures" where I'm mentally not there but my body can kind of run on autopilot like carrying out basic tasks and even speaking.

So, I'll just copy and paste exactly what I asked the last guy, although I don't really know what my dumbass is looking for, because none of you are doctors so how much do your opinions matter? And I'm still unsure if I should see a doctor. I don't know if they'd be able to figure out whether I'm doing myself serious damage or not? Like, if it feels really bad, does that necessarily mean that it is really bad and doing me permanent damage? Can something feel bad but not actually be all that serious? I mean...it's not a good thing that's for sure...:


From my descriptions, do you think I was having seizures or something else? And of course you are just some random guy, but does it sound like what happened to me was life threatening and/or likely to cause permanent damage?

What would you do in my situation if you 1) most importantly didn't want that to happen again but ALSO 2) didn't want to completely quit either alcohol or Kratom? Should I just see one and leave out that info and just say I was drinking and smoking weed which I'm comfortable admitting to?

I'm obviously an addict because of part 2, but aren't we all...I'm just not very happy with my life and I like these substances, BUT if someone told me that I was doing myself permanent damage or could likely die from these episodes, then I'd certainly do SOMETHING to modify my behavior. Even if they aren't dangerous, they do seem to be occurring more since the first one, and they scary as fuck so I don't want them to happen again. I'm torn between options. I don't want to have to tell doctors, and some people are telling me that a scan/MRI or whatever probably wouldn't even show anything. If I was really smart I'd just never drink or do kratom again whether or I see a doctor or not, but I mean...NEVER drinking again? Seriously? With how subpar I'm finding my life right now you would have to prove to me I was doing something really bad before I'd stop, and Kratom is one of the only things that really helps with my depression and anxiety when I'm low.

 

[Antares]

I've only ever had a grand mal seizure, so I couldn't really say if you're having seizures or not (though seizures lasting 30 minutes is some wild shit so I'm skeptical). But I have read that having seizures makes them happen easier in the future because the misfiring of the brain becomes a more traveled path, if that makes sense. It's like how walking through tall grass is kinda hard unless it's been flattened and smashed by everyone who came before you.

Seizures don't inherently cause brain damage or anything like that, but you can get serious physical injuries from them. If nothing else, I'd take that seriously. If you don't want to stop the substance use, you could try cutting down. Any little progress will help at least slow down any progression of whatever you're dealing with (if it's really caused by the substances), you know?

I wish I could give you advice on being honest with your doctor, but I can't trust them myself. But apparently even people with frequent seizures due to epilepsy often go through those tests without anything showing up. You might just waste all your time and money if you can't be honest. Might be a waste even if you can, tbh.

Also, alcohol and phenibut can give you seizures all on their own, without any combos going on. Not sure about kratom. But you do need to accept that alcohol is not particularly safe, whether you keep using it the same way or not, and whether it's the actual cause of your current issue or not. Alcohol will just never be safe, and it is going to become less safe the longer you use it for. It fucks up your liver and causes brain damage more than your average drug.

And yeah, I know, that's not great stuff to say to someone who's super anxious, but it's the truth about it. Again, you don't necessarily need to stop it. I'm sure it's better to roll the dice than to stop it when it's the only thing that makes life bearable. But you need to acknowledge it's dangerous. ... But also keep in mind that if you're a nightly user of alcohol, stopping suddenly could also be dangerous. It's such a fucked up drug. Klonopin can also be dangerous in withdrawals, since it's the same receptors they work on.

 

[cdin]

I've only ever had a grand mal seizure, so I couldn't really say if you're having seizures or not (though seizures lasting 30 minutes is some wild shit so I'm skeptical). But I have read that having seizures makes them happen easier in the future because the misfiring of the brain becomes a more traveled path, if that makes sense. It's like how walking through tall grass is kinda hard unless it's been flattened and smashed by everyone who came before you.

Seizures don't inherently cause brain damage or anything like that, but you can get serious physical injuries from them. If nothing else, I'd take that seriously. If you don't want to stop the substance use, you could try cutting down. Any little progress will help at least slow down any progression of whatever you're dealing with (if it's really caused by the substances), you know?

I wish I could give you advice on being honest with your doctor, but I can't trust them myself. But apparently even people with frequent seizures due to epilepsy often go through those tests without anything showing up. You might just waste all your time and money if you can't be honest. Might be a waste even if you can, tbh.

Also, alcohol and phenibut can give you seizures all on their own, without any combos going on. Not sure about kratom. But you do need to accept that alcohol is not particularly safe, whether you keep using it the same way or not, and whether it's the actual cause of your current issue or not. Alcohol will just never be safe, and it is going to become less safe the longer you use it for. It fucks up your liver and causes brain damage more than your average drug.

And yeah, I know, that's not great stuff to say to someone who's super anxious, but it's the truth about it. Again, you don't necessarily need to stop it. I'm sure it's better to roll the dice than to stop it when it's the only thing that makes life bearable. But you need to acknowledge it's dangerous. ... But also keep in mind that if you're a nightly user of alcohol, stopping suddenly could also be dangerous. It's such a fucked up drug. Klonopin can also be dangerous in withdrawals, since it's the same receptors they work on.

This is basically what i I was getting at. These drugs produce this shit, they have messy activity (especially the phenibut and booze) and you won't ever be able to get a good idea of what the ultimate culprit is when you have more than 1 thing onboard it gets very difficult. i would 100% recommend HONESTY with medical providers. being cheeky has fucked me multiple times.

I get OP likes to use alcohol, but ime once you get to a point where things are whacked out enough in your electrical systems to produce seizures, you simply must stay away from booze and other things that mess with it. I'm kicked out of booze club too, and -tbh - im grateful i have this response to it because it makes me fully unwilling to ever drink more than once in many many months, and even then as little as possible because i just IMMEDIATELY fall into physical GABA addiction whenever I touch anything that is a positive allosteric modualator for more than a day.

 

[Mycophile]

This is basically what i I was getting at. These drugs produce this shit, they have messy activity (especially the phenibut and booze) and you won't ever be able to get a good idea of what the ultimate culprit is when you have more than 1 thing onboard it gets very difficult. i would 100% recommend HONESTY with medical providers. being cheeky has fucked me multiple times.

I get OP likes to use alcohol, but ime once you get to a point where things are whacked out enough in your electrical systems to produce seizures, you simply must stay away from booze and other things that mess with it. I'm kicked out of booze club too, and -tbh - im grateful i have this response to it because it makes me fully unwilling to ever drink more than once in many many months, and even then as little as possible because i just IMMEDIATELY fall into physical GABA addiction whenever I touch anything that is a positive allosteric modualator for more than a day.

But the question is: ARE THESE REALLY SEIZURES? No one seems to know anything, but the responses by many people seem to indicate that they may not be. Then again, even if they aren't seizures, does that mean they aren't dangerous? I'm not sure it does.

Also, how can I "not be cheeky" and tell doctors I use Kratom when they'll look it up, figure out it's an opioid, and quite likely blacklist me from ever being able to be prescribed opioids if I'm injured again?!?! I know that that happens ALL THE TIME. I've never heard of it happening with Kratom, but I would bet it could. And I've had 3 knee surgeries and a wrist surgery from martial arts, which I'll be returning to soon, so I could have future injuries where I'd need pain meds. Also, I cannot sleep on Kratom, but I can on Oxy and Hydros. So how can I tell them about kratom and phenibut and risk this?!?! Also, if they contact my psychiatrist I could get my Klonopin taken away, and I can't have that.
I'm freaking out more now. Please respond ASAP.

 

[Mycophile]

I've only ever had a grand mal seizure, so I couldn't really say if you're having seizures or not (though seizures lasting 30 minutes is some wild shit so I'm skeptical). But I have read that having seizures makes them happen easier in the future because the misfiring of the brain becomes a more traveled path, if that makes sense. It's like how walking through tall grass is kinda hard unless it's been flattened and smashed by everyone who came before you.

Seizures don't inherently cause brain damage or anything like that, but you can get serious physical injuries from them. If nothing else, I'd take that seriously. If you don't want to stop the substance use, you could try cutting down. Any little progress will help at least slow down any progression of whatever you're dealing with (if it's really caused by the substances), you know?

I wish I could give you advice on being honest with your doctor, but I can't trust them myself. But apparently even people with frequent seizures due to epilepsy often go through those tests without anything showing up. You might just waste all your time and money if you can't be honest. Might be a waste even if you can, tbh.

Also, alcohol and phenibut can give you seizures all on their own, without any combos going on. Not sure about kratom. But you do need to accept that alcohol is not particularly safe, whether you keep using it the same way or not, and whether it's the actual cause of your current issue or not. Alcohol will just never be safe, and it is going to become less safe the longer you use it for. It fucks up your liver and causes brain damage more than your average drug.

And yeah, I know, that's not great stuff to say to someone who's super anxious, but it's the truth about it. Again, you don't necessarily need to stop it. I'm sure it's better to roll the dice than to stop it when it's the only thing that makes life bearable. But you need to acknowledge it's dangerous. ... But also keep in mind that if you're a nightly user of alcohol, stopping suddenly could also be dangerous. It's such a fucked up drug. Klonopin can also be dangerous in withdrawals, since it's the same receptors they work on.

Thanks for the advice.

Thing is, I don't use alcohol on a regular or daily basis. I basically binge drink like twice a month. That's pretty much it, but I like to mix it with other substances. I've never used enough to cause problems in the past, and I'm turning 44 soon. I've never had liver problems and recently had blood work, but the truth is, I have been drinking on different dosages of Klonopin for 20 years now. I know that's not recommended, but the worst I ever got from it before was gaba-rebound anxiety/hanganxiety.

I've already decided I'm never touching Phenibut again, and I hope I never go back on that, but alcohol and Kratom are a different story. I wouldn't say "they are all that make life bearable" by any means, but they are things, especially alcohol, that I have a hard time imagining living without, especially the socializing with alcohol.

And you raise the issue of the doctors not taking me seriously or nothing *good* coming from telling them anyways, whereas Cdin says "not to be cheeky with them" and tell them everything, mentioning kratom could get me get off from future opioid prescriptions. I'm PRETTY SURE they wouldn't try to find a way to contact my psychiatrist, but if they did, I could get pulled off my Klonopin, and THAT would be a problem as I still do need it for anxiety.

To make matters worse, I just found out I might need to go see my nurse practitioner about something else anyway soon anyway, so then that puts me in the position of being in his office sooner than I thought and having to figure out whether or not to mention this when it's scaring the shit out of me, but things going wrong if I tell him and it all leading me to be considered an addict scares the shit out of me also.

Please message back ASAP.

 

[Antares]

I think with kratom, since it is a plant and legal (at least I hope it's legal where you live -- I think there are one or two states in the US that actually have banned it?) you could probably just present it as an "herbal supplement" you were using, and they probably couldn't really justify treating you like an addict.

If you're going to the doctor anyway, I think it's worth mentioning that you're having these episodes and you're worried about them. And if they do seem linked to the kratom use, it probably is important to mention whatever patterns you've noticed to them. I think you'll probably be fine to tell them about that one. Maybe don't mention the phenibut, but since you haven't been using it and are still having these moments, it's probably not the issue.

I also think you might have to tell them about the episodes, just to clear your own head about it. I can see you just continuing to worry a ton about this if you keep it all to yourself.

Also, I'm glad you don't have to worry about serious alcohol withdrawal, but binge drinking is also really rough on the body. And you are right to start thinking about the fact that you're getting older. Our bodies really do just get weaker at dealing with this stuff as we age. It's why a lot of medication recommendations and doses are different for older people. Maybe don't stop, but consider going a bit easier on it from now on. I'm only in my 30s and I've already noticed the physical burden of some of these drugs getting bigger than they used to be, even though my general nutrition/fitness/health stuff hasn't changed.

 

[Mycophile]

I think with kratom, since it is a plant and legal (at least I hope it's legal where you live -- I think there are one or two states in the US that actually have banned it?) you could probably just present it as an "herbal supplement" you were using, and they probably couldn't really justify treating you like an addict.

If you're going to the doctor anyway, I think it's worth mentioning that you're having these episodes and you're worried about them. And if they do seem linked to the kratom use, it probably is important to mention whatever patterns you've noticed to them. I think you'll probably be fine to tell them about that one. Maybe don't mention the phenibut, but since you haven't been using it and are still having these moments, it's probably not the issue.

I also think you might have to tell them about the episodes, just to clear your own head about it. I can see you just continuing to worry a ton about this if you keep it all to yourself.

Also, I'm glad you don't have to worry about serious alcohol withdrawal, but binge drinking is also really rough on the body. And you are right to start thinking about the fact that you're getting older. Our bodies really do just get weaker at dealing with this stuff as we age. It's why a lot of medication recommendations and doses are different for older people. Maybe don't stop, but consider going a bit easier on it from now on. I'm only in my 30s and I've already noticed the physical burden of some of these drugs getting bigger than they used to be, even though my general nutrition/fitness/health stuff hasn't changed.

Thanks. No, I'm not in a banned state as far as Kratom. You are right that I want to clear my own head. I have told my therapist, but she isn't a doctor, and I kind of feel like I need to tell a doctor, but you and another person seemed to sort of be saying NOT to because you thought it wouldn't make a difference anyway right?

I agree on not mentioning the Phenibut...although honestly...that was a major player in the very first of these 3 episodes. It might not have happened the next day had I not had it. Negrogesic called what happened that day a "glutamate surge with akisthisia," but he doesn't seem to want to reply to further posts. But I don't see how I can swing telling them about Phenibut. It's a messed up Russian drug and even though it can be used for anxiety...no...I don't see any doctor coming away from hearing about that without labeling me an addict. I could tell them I was using Kratom as an herbal supplement for anxiety and depression cause i have those...but I'd STILL be very scared they'd look it up, consider it an opioid (cause it is...) and cut me off from future opioid use. Also, do you think they'd call my psychiatrist who isn't even in their medical group/network and get me cut off from Klonopin? I CANNOT HAVE THAT.

I CAN drink less. Last time was 2 bottles of wine and that's why I blacked out and had another episode, but the two times before that (they were after the first 2 episodes) I drank more moderately, even used a little Kratom the next day, and I did NOT have episodes the next day, had my fun, and was fine. I think those "successful" drinking/drugging sessions made me too overconfident the last time though...

 

[cdin]

Thanks for the advice.

Thing is, I don't use alcohol on a regular or daily basis. I basically binge drink like twice a month. That's pretty much it, but I like to mix it with other substances. I've never used enough to cause problems in the past, and I'm turning 44 soon. I've never had liver problems and recently had blood work, but the truth is, I have been drinking on different dosages of Klonopin for 20 years now. I know that's not recommended, but the worst I ever got from it before was gaba-rebound anxiety/hanganxiety.

I've already decided I'm never touching Phenibut again, and I hope I never go back on that, but alcohol and Kratom are a different story. I wouldn't say "they are all that make life bearable" by any means, but they are things, especially alcohol, that I have a hard time imagining living without, especially the socializing with alcohol.

And you raise the issue of the doctors not taking me seriously or nothing *good* coming from telling them anyways, whereas Cdin says "not to be cheeky with them" and tell them everything, mentioning kratom could get me get off from future opioid prescriptions. I'm PRETTY SURE they wouldn't try to find a way to contact my psychiatrist, but if they did, I could get pulled off my Klonopin, and THAT would be a problem as I still do need it for anxiety.

To make matters worse, I just found out I might need to go see my nurse practitioner about something else anyway soon anyway, so then that puts me in the position of being in his office sooner than I thought and having to figure out whether or not to mention this when it's scaring the shit out of me, but things going wrong if I tell him and it all leading me to be considered an addict scares the shit out of me also.

Please message back ASAP.

binge drinking is the worst pattern for creating progressive kindling damage to the GABA system