Do pills have herion in them?
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Acid_Reign
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What can i say to that
Whitesmoke : before addiction.
The conclusion I'm drawing is that it does happen (herion in a pill) but I'm just as likely to get hit by a goat.
Whitesmoke : before addiction.
The conclusion I'm drawing is that it does happen (herion in a pill) but I'm just as likely to get hit by a goat.
mibrane
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ok - you can check out my Updated Heroin FAQ on the other drugs board.
after discussion and research we discovered that an active oral dose for smack starts at about 60mg for someone without any opiate dependency (compared to about 10mg starting dose injected), and a dosage of around 250mg would be sufficient to cause od. so it is possible to fit an active dose on a pill, but the testing eveidence is that it is extremely rare, and in most areas it is not particularly economically viable. a dependent person would use around 75-100mg per hit.
oh, and take it from me, methadone can have very euphoric effects orally. they disappear quickly once you have a dependence, but at first you do get very stoned and also lethargic on it.
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venceremos - hasta la victoria siempre
Al-Qahira, Ares, Auquakah, Bahram.
Harmarkhis, Hrad, Hou Hsing, Kasei.
Ma'adim, Maja, Mamers, Mangala, Mars.
Nirgal, Shalbatanu, Simud and Tiu.
after discussion and research we discovered that an active oral dose for smack starts at about 60mg for someone without any opiate dependency (compared to about 10mg starting dose injected), and a dosage of around 250mg would be sufficient to cause od. so it is possible to fit an active dose on a pill, but the testing eveidence is that it is extremely rare, and in most areas it is not particularly economically viable. a dependent person would use around 75-100mg per hit.
oh, and take it from me, methadone can have very euphoric effects orally. they disappear quickly once you have a dependence, but at first you do get very stoned and also lethargic on it.
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venceremos - hasta la victoria siempre
Al-Qahira, Ares, Auquakah, Bahram.
Harmarkhis, Hrad, Hou Hsing, Kasei.
Ma'adim, Maja, Mamers, Mangala, Mars.
Nirgal, Shalbatanu, Simud and Tiu.
Rashen_Kings
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Hear hear.
As i said early, and was flatly refuted by EBee (obviously an expert on the subject), methadone and other opiates are often added to pills.
As above, yes, methadone can cause euphoric effects. I guarantee an analysis of the original gold CKs will produce results of methadone as ingredient.
This may amaze many...and i'm sure a lot of people will argue with me and try to say that the strong smacky come-on effect was strong mdma. BUT THIS IS BLATANTLY INCORRECT. Why am i arguing this point so profusely? Because if you know your e's you would have known that the CK gold come on was something different to E wooziness. That was the methadone hit.
That was the most amusing thing about the CK Gold craze. Everyone seemed to love them. They loved them 'cause they were so strong, and fucked you up so hard',described by some as the 'best e's'. No, they werent anywhere near e's. Ingredients MDMA subsitutes, such as ketamine, speed and morphine. People were paying top dollar for pills that were locally procued garbage. If you knew people you would have realised that they were substancially cheaper than normal 'import' prices (ie. $27-29 per 100).
Believe it or not,
It may destroy your CK fantasy's
I rest my case (for now).
As i said early, and was flatly refuted by EBee (obviously an expert on the subject), methadone and other opiates are often added to pills.
As above, yes, methadone can cause euphoric effects. I guarantee an analysis of the original gold CKs will produce results of methadone as ingredient.
This may amaze many...and i'm sure a lot of people will argue with me and try to say that the strong smacky come-on effect was strong mdma. BUT THIS IS BLATANTLY INCORRECT. Why am i arguing this point so profusely? Because if you know your e's you would have known that the CK gold come on was something different to E wooziness. That was the methadone hit.
That was the most amusing thing about the CK Gold craze. Everyone seemed to love them. They loved them 'cause they were so strong, and fucked you up so hard',described by some as the 'best e's'. No, they werent anywhere near e's. Ingredients MDMA subsitutes, such as ketamine, speed and morphine. People were paying top dollar for pills that were locally procued garbage. If you knew people you would have realised that they were substancially cheaper than normal 'import' prices (ie. $27-29 per 100).
Believe it or not,
It may destroy your CK fantasy's
I rest my case (for now).
Mr. Horse
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rashen, how can you "rest your case" when almost every single cK (and there WERE about 7 batches) tested purple-black? How do you explain that?
If you check on pictures from pilreports, you will see this shady looking cK that looks like playdoh. Maybe those are the ones you are talking about? It just doesnt make sense, thats all.
With that said, I never had one so I cant comment, but it seems a little rediculous.
BUT....you do seem to know your pills, and therefore i'm willing to listen to your explanation, but it all seems a bit far fetched to me. Sorry dude.
If you check on pictures from pilreports, you will see this shady looking cK that looks like playdoh. Maybe those are the ones you are talking about? It just doesnt make sense, thats all.
With that said, I never had one so I cant comment, but it seems a little rediculous.
BUT....you do seem to know your pills, and therefore i'm willing to listen to your explanation, but it all seems a bit far fetched to me. Sorry dude.
Acid_Reign
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Ok, herion turns purple with the marquis reagent.
According to PhreeX who has done the test a few times.
According to PhreeX who has done the test a few times.
Rashen_Kings
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With all due respect Mr Horse...
The EZ Tester will change colour with the presence of a MDxx like substance. I am not saying that the CK Golds had 0% MDxx substance...there could well have been a small amount of MDxx in these pills.
However, methadone was a major ingredient. Do you not agree with me that these pills felt different in effect to clean MDMA imports?? I cant understand it if you didnt feel the difference. The rush of them wasnt mdma rush, it was a sickly messy feel.
Also...i am DEFINATELY not talking about the 'playdo' shit CK copies...i'm talking about the original ones...flat both sides, slight bevels (as far as i can recall), smelt like absolute shit in the bag.
These are the only pills (which were supposedly good) that i've had where i i've had a stack on me...gone out for a big one, munched one...come off it an hour or two later, and refused to munch anymore. Normally, with good mdma eggs, you'd have to tear the bag of me to stop me. The reason...these were shithouse quality.
Probably good for an aussie attempt...but not imported.
[This message has been edited by Rashen_Kings (edited 06 November 2000).]
The EZ Tester will change colour with the presence of a MDxx like substance. I am not saying that the CK Golds had 0% MDxx substance...there could well have been a small amount of MDxx in these pills.
However, methadone was a major ingredient. Do you not agree with me that these pills felt different in effect to clean MDMA imports?? I cant understand it if you didnt feel the difference. The rush of them wasnt mdma rush, it was a sickly messy feel.
Also...i am DEFINATELY not talking about the 'playdo' shit CK copies...i'm talking about the original ones...flat both sides, slight bevels (as far as i can recall), smelt like absolute shit in the bag.
These are the only pills (which were supposedly good) that i've had where i i've had a stack on me...gone out for a big one, munched one...come off it an hour or two later, and refused to munch anymore. Normally, with good mdma eggs, you'd have to tear the bag of me to stop me. The reason...these were shithouse quality.
Probably good for an aussie attempt...but not imported.
[This message has been edited by Rashen_Kings (edited 06 November 2000).]
GRRRRRRR
I just had a whole post written out, ready to submit, and my poxy mac crashed yet again
I might try and re-write it tomorrow, as I'm too tired now, but I'll just say this:
rashen_kings: I do not claim to be an expert in anything, nor do I try and fool anyone into believing I am. I merely researched the topic on the web while I was doing other stuff on my computer. It doesn't take long...anyone can find a wealth of information on the web, maybe you should try it sometime.
and btw, according to the colour chart on the E testers, the reaction for heroin is red to purple.
[This message has been edited by E Bee (edited 06 November 2000).]
I just had a whole post written out, ready to submit, and my poxy mac crashed yet again
I might try and re-write it tomorrow, as I'm too tired now, but I'll just say this:
rashen_kings: I do not claim to be an expert in anything, nor do I try and fool anyone into believing I am. I merely researched the topic on the web while I was doing other stuff on my computer. It doesn't take long...anyone can find a wealth of information on the web, maybe you should try it sometime.
and btw, according to the colour chart on the E testers, the reaction for heroin is red to purple.
[This message has been edited by E Bee (edited 06 November 2000).]
if there was only a small amt of mdxx the reaction would have been overpowered by the other constituents. Heroin goes purple on ez test, same as pcp and cocaine
However they differ from an MDXX reaction in that they are lighter in colour, very purple and not at all blue or black. (thanks to Phreex for that info)
I had one of them cKs. It was different to any other pill I've had. That's all I'll say.
Back on the subject.... oh AR has reached conclusions already.
I had one of them cKs. It was different to any other pill I've had. That's all I'll say.
Back on the subject.... oh AR has reached conclusions already.
funkyfella
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Why does this place always go back to a "CK's, the bomb or not?" arguement?? Haven't we gone over this enough?? It's been almost a year since 'the good ones' came on the scene, and in that time I have heard or read a million arguements for or against them as pure MDMA, none of which have ever provided me with any real evidence at all! I had one, and I dunno what was in it, but all I know is that I had a top night, whether it was smack, MDMA, speed, ketamine, panadol, who gives a shit a year later!!!????? I've read 'a mate of a mate imported them, and they are the real deal, pharmaceutical grade' and I've read that 'shit speed and ketamine aussie baked crap!', and guess what....I don't care anymore!! Some people loved them, some people hated them, some are indifferent, but lets let this one lie hey?? I mean, sure, I want MDMA when I pay for MDMA, but like, it's been a year....
yeah yeah I'm in agreeance there. I typed similar stuff, then deleted it cos there was some point in that it was discussing whether opiates can turn up in pills or not. But I think Acid_Reign has drawn conclusions and this does seem like one of those silly crusade to prove a mute point type things so..... I just left it at "thats all I'm saying" and decided to watch that the thread didn't turn into a silly crusade (thats mah job mayte!)
Rashen_Kings
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Until there is a final conclusion then the argument has to go on.
I propose to personally track down a Gold CK (yes, i know people who still have quite a few of the original ones from way back when), and post it off to a chemical analysis lab.
It is then that we will come to a conclusion on this matter.
Does anyone who the postal addresses of sucha a lab?
I propose to personally track down a Gold CK (yes, i know people who still have quite a few of the original ones from way back when), and post it off to a chemical analysis lab.
It is then that we will come to a conclusion on this matter.
Does anyone who the postal addresses of sucha a lab?
D
D&AWg
Guest
Incredibly unlikely that any pills sold as E have heroin in them, for all the reasons listed above.
IF heroin users had contact with any pills somewhere along the chain of distribution, this could easily cross-contaminate them. As mentioned, traces on fingers or table top where H was prepared. These traces WOULD be picked up on analysis. Drug tests performed on dollar bills in New York show most notes have traces of cocaine on them! These tests are ultrasensitive. This kind of contamination is very different to a pill being manufactured with heroin in it.
When heroin is taken orally, it is metabolised in the stomach and broken down into different byproducts before being excreted via the liver and kidneys. This is why it is not effective to swallow heroin. When heroin is injected, smoked or snorted, it is absorbed whole directly into the bloodstream and only later metabolised and excreted.
Finally, research shows approximately one in four people who try heroin become addicted. If someone who had never tried heroin were to use just a little bit on a daily basis, they would be physically dependent with a habit within days, and would suffer withdrawals when they stopped using. I have worked with many heroin users and every one said they thought it would never happen to them. Tolerance to heroin builds up incredibly quickly, so a regular user has to use more and more to get the same effects. Most people with a habit seldom get stoned and use just to stop the onset of withdrawals. So there is no answer to the question of how much heroin is an effective dose. Also, tolerance drops quickly - within days - once people stop using, which is why many people who have broken their habit and decide to have another hit, actually overdose and die. They whack up with what would have been a small amount when they were using daily, and they drop, because what used to be a small amount is now an overdose.
ON Gold CKs... these have been widely available this year. They also made many people very ill in Sydney, particularly around January. Hospital emergency departments have dealt with many of these cases and I have personal knowledge of many others. I DON'T know what was in them, but I would be very surprised if it was methadone. Firstly, the solid form of methadone is a tablet known as physeptone. (Methadone is actually a syrup.) There is a very a hot black market for physeptone tablets as is and they are really difficult to come by. I really cannot see why a manufacturer would waste time and money mixing these tablets up with other stuff and passing them off as E.
That's my two-cents' worth!
IF heroin users had contact with any pills somewhere along the chain of distribution, this could easily cross-contaminate them. As mentioned, traces on fingers or table top where H was prepared. These traces WOULD be picked up on analysis. Drug tests performed on dollar bills in New York show most notes have traces of cocaine on them! These tests are ultrasensitive. This kind of contamination is very different to a pill being manufactured with heroin in it.
When heroin is taken orally, it is metabolised in the stomach and broken down into different byproducts before being excreted via the liver and kidneys. This is why it is not effective to swallow heroin. When heroin is injected, smoked or snorted, it is absorbed whole directly into the bloodstream and only later metabolised and excreted.
Finally, research shows approximately one in four people who try heroin become addicted. If someone who had never tried heroin were to use just a little bit on a daily basis, they would be physically dependent with a habit within days, and would suffer withdrawals when they stopped using. I have worked with many heroin users and every one said they thought it would never happen to them. Tolerance to heroin builds up incredibly quickly, so a regular user has to use more and more to get the same effects. Most people with a habit seldom get stoned and use just to stop the onset of withdrawals. So there is no answer to the question of how much heroin is an effective dose. Also, tolerance drops quickly - within days - once people stop using, which is why many people who have broken their habit and decide to have another hit, actually overdose and die. They whack up with what would have been a small amount when they were using daily, and they drop, because what used to be a small amount is now an overdose.
ON Gold CKs... these have been widely available this year. They also made many people very ill in Sydney, particularly around January. Hospital emergency departments have dealt with many of these cases and I have personal knowledge of many others. I DON'T know what was in them, but I would be very surprised if it was methadone. Firstly, the solid form of methadone is a tablet known as physeptone. (Methadone is actually a syrup.) There is a very a hot black market for physeptone tablets as is and they are really difficult to come by. I really cannot see why a manufacturer would waste time and money mixing these tablets up with other stuff and passing them off as E.
That's my two-cents' worth!
D
D&AWg
Guest
Rashen_Kings: Pacific Laboratory Medicine Services in North Ryde, Sydney, will undertake drug analysis. Telephone (02) 9887 5666 for further info.
D&AWg steps up
i believe that it's very difficult to say what exactly is in pill. even distinguishing b/w the mdma family is problematic.
1.) unless you have synthesised the MDMA(like) compound yourself you really don't know for sure what it is your taking.
eg ppl saying that a "sit down/stoney" type of pill is caused by MDEA. having not ever experienced a pure MDEA experience how are you to know that what you've taken is in fact MDEA.
2.) drug experiences are incredibly subjective, you can't duplicate the set and setting of any previous experience, so even if you did manage to get your hands on pure MDMA you could easily have two very different experiences. this has happened to me on two halves of the same pill....i'm sure ppl have had vastly different experiences on the same batch of eggs.
so yeah, i reckon that even though u can usually have a pretty good guess at whats in a pill unless you\ve had an experience with the pure substance i'd be wary of the wieght of the opinion. even so with the subjectivity of each experience you could end up feeling vastly different from what you have known in the past.
bring on the lab testing, anything else is at best conjecture, and quite likely a load of bollocks.
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uberzone drop the tone
i believe that it's very difficult to say what exactly is in pill. even distinguishing b/w the mdma family is problematic.
1.) unless you have synthesised the MDMA(like) compound yourself you really don't know for sure what it is your taking.
eg ppl saying that a "sit down/stoney" type of pill is caused by MDEA. having not ever experienced a pure MDEA experience how are you to know that what you've taken is in fact MDEA.
2.) drug experiences are incredibly subjective, you can't duplicate the set and setting of any previous experience, so even if you did manage to get your hands on pure MDMA you could easily have two very different experiences. this has happened to me on two halves of the same pill....i'm sure ppl have had vastly different experiences on the same batch of eggs.
so yeah, i reckon that even though u can usually have a pretty good guess at whats in a pill unless you\ve had an experience with the pure substance i'd be wary of the wieght of the opinion. even so with the subjectivity of each experience you could end up feeling vastly different from what you have known in the past.
bring on the lab testing, anything else is at best conjecture, and quite likely a load of bollocks.
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uberzone drop the tone
rashen kings, a little question: if you're arguments are so solid ("I rest my case") then why did you see the need to edit your original reply on this thread into almost non-existence? your post now reflects almost nothing of your original, presumably because your absurd claims were intelligently rebutted by E Bee and you tried not to look like so much of an idiot by reworking it. tsk tsk -- at least stick by your original arguments
Rashen_Kings
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Look BuckE...i dont want to go into why i deleted a post...get a life detective!
My point is simple as it is as follows, and i am open to counter argument:
1. Gold CK's were not mdma...and their major effects were not that of MDxx.
2. Gold CK's were not import grade pills. Rather well marketed local pills, containing a cheap local ecstacy imitation.
3. Ingredients reputedly either morphine, methadone, codiene, some herion derivative pharmaceutical. Possibly even something else..we'll have to wait for the lab results!!!
Cleaning up my previous points:
1. I dont beleive that herion is in pills in its normal form...so i am not arguing that point. My argument does not relate to the heroin argument of before...rather it is on the active ingredients of the "original CK Golds"
2. Until I get the lab test, which could take a couple of weeks to organise, I dont think any of us experts can really come to any conclusion.
The evidence that i base my arguments on is strong, but yes subjective and circumstancial. However, I think until the test happens, its pretty much your word against mine. And my sources are solid...trust me.
This is a friendly investigation, so lets all be friendly!!! The truth is out there!
[This message has been edited by Rashen_Kings (edited 07 November 2000).]
My point is simple as it is as follows, and i am open to counter argument:
1. Gold CK's were not mdma...and their major effects were not that of MDxx.
2. Gold CK's were not import grade pills. Rather well marketed local pills, containing a cheap local ecstacy imitation.
3. Ingredients reputedly either morphine, methadone, codiene, some herion derivative pharmaceutical. Possibly even something else..we'll have to wait for the lab results!!!
Cleaning up my previous points:
1. I dont beleive that herion is in pills in its normal form...so i am not arguing that point. My argument does not relate to the heroin argument of before...rather it is on the active ingredients of the "original CK Golds"
2. Until I get the lab test, which could take a couple of weeks to organise, I dont think any of us experts can really come to any conclusion.
The evidence that i base my arguments on is strong, but yes subjective and circumstancial. However, I think until the test happens, its pretty much your word against mine. And my sources are solid...trust me.
This is a friendly investigation, so lets all be friendly!!! The truth is out there!
[This message has been edited by Rashen_Kings (edited 07 November 2000).]
funkyfella
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I think the term 'trust me' should be outlawed on this board.....although I'm sure I've said it in the past....oh well
Acid_Reign
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I propose an independant party recieves the test information.
I don't trust anyone that says trust me
I don't trust anyone that says trust me
Well I had 5 of the Gold cK's at the start of the year and each and every time I had one I had an awesome experience typical of a really good MDMA pill.
So while it would be nice to know exactly what was in them, it doesn't really matter to me 'cos they had the same effects, effects which are definately not the same as codine, but i wouldn't know about the other heroin derivatives.
Anyway, just wanted my say, you guys can go back to your argument now
So while it would be nice to know exactly what was in them, it doesn't really matter to me 'cos they had the same effects, effects which are definately not the same as codine, but i wouldn't know about the other heroin derivatives.
Anyway, just wanted my say, you guys can go back to your argument now