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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Benzos Do Beta Blockers help Benzo Withdawal

negrogesic said:
^^^Mirtazapine is a decent option to induce sleep during benzo. 15mg in the evening should be sufficient.
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I’ve had decent anxiety relief from it too. In addition to hitting the histamine receptor it hits a serotonin receptor which is why it probably helps anxiety some. It’s not the reuptake receptor. Just one of the other random serotonin receptors. I did develop tolerance to the sleep effects pretty quickly, but I suspect that’s in part because I take the over the counter sleep aid doxylamine fairly regularly. Mirtazapine and doxylamine both hit the H1 histamine receptor, but mirtazapine is much stronger and has a much higher affinity for the H1. It still helped anxiety a fair amount though. If I get too anxious and/or get insomnia I’ll probably ask my Dr for some Mirtazapine. Thanks for the conversation and replies guys. I’m definitely open to other thoughts and suggestions too. ✌
 
Lorne??? said:
Fuck Ashton 😎⚡

If you are tapering correctly (2.5mg drops every week or so at your dose) there should be now"full wd"

If there is go to the fucking ER; Benzodiazepine wd is deadly, you know, that big secret?
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I’ve tapered 2mg of diazepam every 2 weeks, which is what the Ashton protocol calls for, and it wasn’t bad at all. Diazepam is very weak and has a very long half life which is why it’s used in the Ashton method. For example, 50mg of diazepam is approximately equivalent to 2.5mg of clonazepam. Yes, I’m very aware of the dangers of Benzo withdrawal. An ER won’t help you get off Benzos. They’ll just stabilize you and send you home. I know what I’m doing as I’ve done it several times before. Thanks.
 
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10mg Valium = .25mg Clonazepam Chronic dosing

Valium half life = completely irrelevant, because it is highly lipophillic and hides in fat; not to mention it is like 99% protein bound

Why do you think they RX it qid 4x per day) for Epilepsy? Because it is just fucking fun?
 
Lorne??? said:
10mg Valium = .25mg Clonazepam Chronic dosing

Valium half life = completely irrelevant, because it is highly lipophillic and hides in fat; not to mention it is like 99% protein bound

Why do you think they RX it qid 4x per day) for Epilepsy? Because it is just fucking fun?
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Dude...you don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve done this before. Half life absolutely matters when tapering because the longer it takes your blood serum levels to decrease the longer your receptors have to heal and catch up. Thats why it is so hard, if not impossible, to taper off of Xanax, which has a half life of just 6-12 hours. Because the half life is so short. Diazepam has an extremely long half life. 20-100 hours, with active metabolites with a half life of 100-200 hours. Let’s say it’s 60 hours for someone my age (mid 40s), that means it takes over 13 days to reach steady state blood serum levels. It takes 5.5 half lives for blood serum levels to even out when you decrease a dose. That’s why diazepam is the preferred Benzo for tapering. Plus it is very weak so you can make very small decreases. .5mg clonazepam = 10 mg diazepam. Therefore 1 mg clonazepam = 20mg diazepam. See the equivalency chart here...

benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepine Equivalence Table

benzo.org.uk - Benzodiazepine Equivalence Table
www.benzo.org.uk

I’ve done this before and I know from experience it works very well. The protocol calls for a 2mg reduction every 2 weeks, of diazepam. If you’re on a different shorter acting Benzo you switch to Diazepam. Read the manual before you start shooting off incorrect information. It’s barely noticeable until the very end and at that point you can have compounding pharmacies give you small doses all the way down to a 1/4 milligram, which you can further cut in halves or 1/4s with a pill cutter. That’s a 16th of a milligram of diazepam, which is an extremely small dose and allows you to taper so low that you barely or don’t feel it at all when you jump. Once you get that low you can even go lower by taking it every other day if you really need to, but I haven’t found that necessary. Trust me. Ive been through Benzo withdrawals many times. I know what I’m doing and I guarantee this is the best and easiest way to do it.
 
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^ I cannot tell if your joking 🙃

If half lives mattered, I wouldn't have seized out hours after taking nordazepam; I know more about Benzodiazepines than anyone here - T1/2 does NOT matter


Why don't you develop Epilepsy and try riding the elimination half-life before shooting off incorrect information.


As I said, Valium is VERY lipo phillic and highly protein bound - wtf you think they RX it 4x a day? For fun?

Clonazepam, with very small dose reductions, would be an example of a long lasting Benzodiazepine. Of course, Ashton herself noted people on Clonazepam had extreme difficulty coming off with Valium, because Clonazepam is so potent and lasts so long

Clonazepam and Valium have the same half-life, yet one last 4 hours the other 12

I will say the mildness of Valium is the one advantage

Though if it is painless, why beta blockers?
 
I'm afraid I've had to clean up this thread a little as it was getting out of hand. Please keep things civil people and no dick sizing about benzo habits. :|

As you were...
 
Clonidine (Catapres) is often mistaken for being a beta blocker. Clonidine seems to be more effective than beta blockers like Metropolol by a small margin. Clonidine is used for hypertension and as sedative-hypnotic withdrawal invariably leads to higher blood pressure, it can help level you out a little bit.

I have to second and third the suggestion of Gabapentinoids. You have a lot of options, but the truth is that the withdrawal symptoms from Benzodiazepines can be pretty difficult to actually get a hold of. You can reduce the severity, but I've found the only thing that truly eliminates the symptoms are a sedative-hypnotic.

For this reason, I think Gabapentinoids aren't a bad option. There does not appear to be a major cross-tolerance between Benzodiazepines and Gabapentinoids, so you can smoothly stop the Gabapentinoids once you feel you can handle things without them.
 
Has anyone tried using amino acids such as glutamine, theanine, tryptophan, GABA (controversial whether it crosses bbb), and glycine etc.? Thanks!
 
Keif' Richards said:
Clonidine (Catapres) is often mistaken for being a beta blocker. Clonidine seems to be more effective than beta blockers like Metropolol by a small margin. Clonidine is used for hypertension and as sedative-hypnotic withdrawal invariably leads to higher blood pressure, it can help level you out a little bit.

I have to second and third the suggestion of Gabapentinoids. You have a lot of options, but the truth is that the withdrawal symptoms from Benzodiazepines can be pretty difficult to actually get a hold of. You can reduce the severity, but I've found the only thing that truly eliminates the symptoms are a sedative-hypnotic.

For this reason, I think Gabapentinoids aren't a bad option. There does not appear to be a major cross-tolerance between Benzodiazepines and Gabapentinoids, so you can smoothly stop the Gabapentinoids once you feel you can handle things without them.
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Thanks!! Yeah, I kinda figured the same thing. Phenibut, gabapentin, and baclofen have helped a bit to various degrees. Dependency happens fast with those things though and the withdrawals are just as bad as Benzos. If I use them I’ll have to do it sporadically. I’m going to try some amino acids and magnesium has been really helping my sleep recently, though I’m not tapering diazepam yet. Anywho, thanks for the insight. Much appreciated.
 
I thought I’d add that I’m my experience nothing helps withdrawal symptoms as well as speeds up the healing process as well as cardiovascular excersize. It’s usually the last thing you want to do if you’re sickly feeling, but even a fast paced walk of a mile or more preceded by a little food always makes me feel better. If you’re in hot weather a cool shower afterwards puts the icing on the cake, so to say. If you are able to make it to the gym for a 30 minute session on a bike or elliptical that really gets your heart rate up and gives you a good sweat that has given me the most relief. Especially if you can do it every day.
 
negrogesic said:
(such as ashwaganda) which drag out the withdrawal process by being benzodiazapine-like or cross tolerant.
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Serious, last time Ashwhaganda did nothing.

And that was when i was not addicted to Benzo's. The time before that when it did seem to work it was nothing like a Benzo
 
Wow, if that's true (0.25 mg Clona = 10 mg Diazepam) let me think of it....
Combined with 7 others RC-Benzos.... Just with the Clona I would have to start with 600 to 1000 mg Diazepam.

YEAH! I'm surely dying.

JJ
 
Lorne??? said:
^ I cannot tell if your joking 🙃

If half lives mattered, I wouldn't have seized out hours after taking nordazepam; I know more about Benzodiazepines than anyone here - T1/2 does NOT matter


Why don't you develop Epilepsy and try riding the elimination half-life before shooting off incorrect information.


As I said, Valium is VERY lipo phillic and highly protein bound - wtf you think they RX it 4x a day? For fun?

Clonazepam, with very small dose reductions, would be an example of a long lasting Benzodiazepine. Of course, Ashton herself noted people on Clonazepam had extreme difficulty coming off with Valium, because Clonazepam is so potent and lasts so long

Clonazepam and Valium have the same half-life, yet one last 4 hours the other 12

I will say the mildness of Valium is the one advantage

Though if it is painless, why beta blockers?
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Hey,

Clona und Diazepam have definitely not the same half life. From a lot of RC-Benzoes also experts don't even know the correct half life. We know it from Diazepam - but not definitely from clona.

Just my 2 cents.

JJ
 
JoEhJoEh said:
Hey,

Clona und Diazepam have definitely not the same half life. From a lot of RC-Benzoes also experts don't even know the correct half life. We know it from Diazepam - but not definitely from clona.

Just my 2 cents.

JJ
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When somebody says he is the only one who knows the most about any substance amongst thousands of members, this is suspicious, sorry and I don't believe. Why do you think you are the KING OF BENZOS? Can I see your Diploma lol?

jj
 
And I never told something about betablockers, whats going on with you?
 
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