DMT + Datura?

[ech0s85]

i think you should repost this in philosphy/spirituality itd get a much better reception

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

string theory is more speculation than science (just my 2 cents, completely biased as I'm working in the field of classical general relativity).

 

[Shambles]

It is a pretty speculative theory (as far as my very small understanding of such things go anyway) but it "feels" right to me. It's aesthetically and philosophically very pleasing to me so to a certain extent I don't really care whether it could ever be proven or not. I do find all that kinda stuff fascinating though.

Have nowt to say on the Datura/DMT thing really other than to mention that although I love a good bit of fun brain candy this particular idea does seem kinda silly, to be honest. No offence intended however much may be caused.

 

[Psylex]

Ok people just quit criticizing these attemps to metaphysics. You think you are all rationnal and sane with your materialism but philosophical dualism (mind/matter) is a perfectly legit logical thought system. I'm just going to put it this way for you guys to stop whining : the theory says the key to the complexity of the human mind and it's consciouness doesn't only lie at the neuron scale but might also be at the quantum scale (electron level, with electrical fields, etc...) and at that dimension matter is energy and the laws of physics aren't the same as at our macrospic-er level. Who knows? Maybe energy could transcend our subjective reality and link it with other more primary dimensions (ex: dmt's machine elve one, or buddhism's ecstatic nothingness and infinity no ego state ).... Please don't judge theories too strictly because scientific research is only just carrying on evolving and growing each day with huge theoratical holes yet to be filled and loads of puzzle pieces to be unified. Until science and the rationnal/experimental approach to knowledge has complety matured and finished, atheism, nihilism, religions, spirituality theories are all but beliefs. Look up science's body-mind problem on wikipedia and see for yourself.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

Most of these responses are dck-head ones.

I dig your philosophication brother! And while i cannot back the ideas as true necessarily, I can give you a pat on the back for thinking outside the box!

And coming from 7 yrs of shamanic practice (no not just tripping lol, actually going into the higher realms sober) I am willing to support the fact that there seems to be means of accessing something 'else. And the 'information' obtained 'there' has given me understandings of science and 'real world' occurances which I had no access to otherwise. Arguable of course, but empiricism is all we have. I observe my life exps and i retrospectively analze and make sense of my occurrances. Personally i haven't experienced anything that hasn't met up with the seams of our 'common understandings of physics', but I have witnessed larger perspectives of existence which fully encompass our 'normal view' while providing a higher-dimensional vanage point to further study 'this reality'

If there are other dimensions existing as string theory, m theory and the like suggest...then aren't We as an existential body within reality already 'connected to' these other dimensions as well? One can argue there isn't intelligence, or spatial orientation in these other dimensions, but If they exist, then I think the mystery of our absolute non-witnessing of them would be relevant to our own awareness.

Its like if i am comatose-schizo or something and I am staring at this 'world' consisting of varying colors...then i break the psychotic episode and 'zoom back' my awareness I can now see that I've been laying on the floor for weeks staring at a magazine cover. The world of colors, although 2d, can fully encompass my awareness if I'm in a state of mind which allows such (or forces such). What's to say this 3d awareness is truly all the 'space' around us...? Just because our perceptual hardware isn't wired for 'seeing' these higher perspectives, doesn't mean that our existential body isn't already tangently connected to them. I mean the debate to me is in how many 'physical dimensions are there?' It seems foolish to disregard to possibility of someone experiencing cognitive awareness of something, if it is in fact present within existence.

You can pm to chat more on the topic op I'm interested to ramble physics and reality mechanics with ya...! And I'm very interested in the combo posted about lol....for informationa purposes of course

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

I like your post psylex didn't read all of them, so maybe I like others too...I just wanted to post some good vibes after reading like 6 refutes from 'Mr know it all scientist mans'

 

[TangerinO]

Yeah I see no issue with this guy broadcasting his bizarre ideas simply for the purpose of discussion and interest. I have some pretty far out and whacky ideas as well, granted I try not to broadcast them as much but he has a right to do it and anyone who cares to agree or discuss it with him has to right to also.

Your very negative and belittling opinions have been noted SKL, you can vigorously doubt this has any relevance to with science or drugs in quiet if you can't speak your objections without coming off as downright nasty as far I'm concerned.
The same way you asked the OP why he can't put his active brain to better use by not submitting to delusions, I could ask you the same courtesy to just simply not post if you feel the need to tear someone down like that. Have a quiet chuckle to yourself if you must but why interrupt these people having their exchange of "sophomoric pseudo-philosophical intellectual midgetry" as you called it, and just ignore it. Be the bigger more intelligent person you have represented yourself as in this forum.

The fact that you felt the need to get involved and argue with people you clearly believe yourself to be far smarter than, makes little to no sense to me. This is just my opinion of course and hey, this being the internet I don't know you very well so it's probably an inaccurate one. I'm not going to spout it as fact, just food for thought.

EDIT: Sorry that gave me the irates so I had a big stoned rant, I too mean it in love SKL, nothing personal please don't judge me I'm a lovely guy really
But yeah DMT and Datura is probably not a good idea, without a good amount of experience, I can see so much easily going horribly wrong.

 

[Bkhaze]

Definately cool to think about, just don't forget about universe(A). I know a few people who seem to live by these thoughts they have.

 

[Bkhaze]

I'm not a spiritual person so a theory like this is a bit far-fetched for me to beleive. My thought on drugs is they just alter universe(A), and if there are other "parallel universes",{that is what you are referring to by 'universe(A1)' correct?} they can't send you there.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

You people do realize you're commenting on a thread over a year old just to bitch about posts right? Posts telling a man who pretty much denies the pharmacalogical explanation of drug action, and substitutes it with one of magic and tansdimensional information exchanges, that he's delusional. You really want to do that, really? Look at yourselves.

To quote McKenna, "You don't want to become so open-minded that the wind can whistle between your ears."

 

[Ismene]

If there are other dimensions existing as string theory, m theory and the like suggest...then aren't We as an existential body within reality already 'connected to' these other dimensions as well?

But don't a lot of the recent physics theories only apply to sub-atomic particles at close to the speed of light? Why would the consciousness created by mammals work in the same way?

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

Lol, hey man I'm no expert. I feel ya though, there's the whole 'barrier' between the quantum rules and 'larger world' rules, or I guess a lack of bridge in the least. We do have those subatomic near-the-speed of light particles within our body, and hell, even blowing up and forming right in front of our retinas even right? Lol, why not a chance for perceivability? Even if we still can't bridge our understanding of the mechanics between us. *and I am not arguing he or I or anyone Is perceiving these subatomic happenings, nor really arguing that it is possible. I'm a fan of physics lol, I'm just throw in ideas out there.*

And I am not responsible for the ressurection here lol. I merely commented once it was in the first few, somebody else rose it just an echoe into the void likely in terms of relevence to the op lol.

 

[Psylex]

Hah i'm responsible ^^

thoughtsUnthough cheers mate, it had to be done after reading all these closed minded answers, no matter how old they are haha. Sure i'm gonna pm you, i'm loads interrested in acheiving sober medidation one day, at the moment i'm only discovering the wide enough world of psychonauts and keeping up a bit with philosophy (witch can by itself inculde a decent amount of maths, physics, utopian politics, futurology...)

And back to the thread it seems that a few people aren't still quite convinced with trying to grasp an ontological essence to reality (science has always been on the road to that same goal by the way)

Nowadays , the pharmalogical picture of a drug's action is only described at the molecular level but modern biology is recently discovering that the living is not only built with chemistry, but it's key mechanisms also hold behind the fondamental quantum properties of matters and the sub-atomic level (Ex: Dna's polarity, photosynthesis, bird orientation, smell...).

The mysterious nature of consciousness in a fraction of the living is another point too, philosophically speaking, if the consciousness itself were transcendantal, then the entheogens (hey, not all drugs, some are basic and primitive) would not need to be multidimensionnal themself : a simple alteration trigger is therefore uffisant.
And talking about animals, if a certain idealism appered to be true i'd see consciousness with several stages (robotic in viruses/bacteria, primary in mamals, in Man progressive rationnality partially inhibits instincts and in the (trans) Human consciousness, after full empirical knowledge acquired and performance (final form of medidation/science) made, may be asymptotic or within an absolute (reaching an underlying source dimension, a blend of nothingness and infinite, or a neutral god.... some say it's the planck scale quantum void (filled with activity) )

Going back to the psychedelic+deliriant combo : it's indeed utterly crazy (could someone find more hardcore? ) I think DMT has a probability of transcendance (3rd eye, pinal gland, Dmt occurs naturally in the living...), as for datura... this is the first thread i've seen trying to rationnalise a deliriant. I haven't yet got the balls to try em but if i may judge : woudn't deliriants simply use our subconscious to produce real hallucinations OVE... or maybe, on the contrary it's like the dmt machine elve pattern : subtile arrangement of information that does not seem at all to be recreated by our brains.

 

[Windchild]

which brings me to another point...

once after coming back from an intense salvia trip, a thought came to me and stuck in my head...

Our bodies are just vessels in which our souls are carried, it is not our bodies which transport to these places, it is our soul...

I find it very odd that just before you die that a LARGE amount of DMT is released.. Perhaps transporting your "soul" to an alternative universe...?

I actually agree with that, when you take DMT you are carried to another level of manifestation or existance, you may not be physically there but your POV consciousness is which turns the experience real.

There are many different sources I could cite for what I say starting maybe with Remote Viewing, by Ingo Swann, Ed Dames and many more, when you take a course on RV you are properly taught how to separate mere imagination from your consciouness being percieving something else that we can call real based in the principle that everyone else could also perceive it, so it's not acurate to say it comes from personal imagination.


Regarding the OP, what you say reminds me a lot of the movie Inception, a dream within a dream, which is probably the same thing since the universe limits extend holonomically (as a fractal in an holographic way) both inwards (quantum level) and outwards (celestial level).

What I think (and drugs I admit is not a field I know a lot more than what you read in wikipedia) is that when you are on DMT you are perceiving a diffent plane of existance, I don't think that at that level you can go a lot higher, you are probably as close to the bottom of the rabbit hole as it gets and since existance is holographic in nature and you are in a level of manifestation (LOM of the consciousness, we are beings that exist in many levels of manifestation of the source or soul) where creativity is highest and manifestation instant, if you wish to percieve a universe within a universe and if your mind has been trained enough (through meditation for instance) you only need to intend for it and you should get it.

 

[mr.buffnstuff]

It would be odd if it was true but I'm afraid it's complete frogshit.

It's just a theory Rick Strassman came up with that has no supporting evidence whatsoever. And to be honest when you read any near-death experience it sounds absolutely fuck-all like a DMT trip.

i died at the start of 2010 and was brought back by doctors... i can assure you i didnt feel like i was on DMT, there was no devine spirit, no fuck all! tbh dying is a very boring experience!

 

[Ismene]

^
I feel you buff. Strassman also says dreaming is released during sleep "cos that's like where dreams come from brah". I've had an awful lot of dreams and there isn't one of them in my entire life that was anything remotely like a DMT trip.

 

[futureal]

BodyHereMindGone was mislead but it did inspire me to write this about all the psychonauts modern-day shamans that turn down the road to Insanity

=== the dimension of infinite gods (with its own god as well) ===

spirituality is the flower that blossoms from collapsing stars
duality is the lover that visits you from space
earth is the dreamer who is awoken by the slightest whisper
namaste space travellers strange aliens—
astronauts like your Founding Fathers
I a metaphysical singularity projecting the universe in 4-dimensions outwards
I am a meta-truth in this reflexive simulation
I am a limitless Mind floating in a Psychedelic pool of chemicals
I am the Physical Realm inflected inwards and once again outwards by the Great Chemical reaction of Sentience
I am just one infinity in infinite infinities
DMT enlightens the Third Eye Doors of Perception to Quantum Alternative Universes and the God Dimension with its own God of golden rainbow Chakra

Philip rests his pen and meditates on the beauty of this poem interwoven by all of his alternative selves
gracefully he places the DMT pipe in the drawer, posts it on Bluelight.org and walks outside
the sun greets him like a warm smile and the energy of nature is green and healthful and refreshing
He is breathing the Air of Life and feeling the Experience of the Universe so intensely that energy is shooting out of him upwards in a Spiritual Direction. He is Feeling Infinite Gods and something Significant happens in his Mind that will change the rest of his Life—he starts believing that God is the version of himself that exists in the God Dimension and that there are Infinite Dimensions in the Multiverse.
He bounds with such joy at the Realisation that he is zapped into a into a higher Circuit of Consciousness where his entire world spirals into fractals and images that are too colourful and intricate for him to comprehend. And he is so orgasmically sensitive that he feels that everything around him is of a higher spiritual dimension whereas the even more wondrous realisation is that all this is actually happening in this very Universe.

~~~~

more poems here: https://www.facebook.com/defdepdude/?fref=ts

 

[Zuda]

Dear BodyHereMindGone, I think your ideas are brilliant! Because everything you see on psychedelic drugs is real! The ones who are real in-tune, we know that. I long to use datura and belladonna for shamanistic practices. Do you have any ideas what could be done or accomplished??

 

[phuckingnutz]

Dear BodyHereMindGone, I think your ideas are brilliant! Because everything you see on psychedelic drugs is real! The ones who are real in-tune, we know that. I long to use datura and belladonna for shamanistic practices. Do you have any ideas what could be done or accomplished??

Sorry dude, but Bodyheremindgone is just that...gone.
He is currently in universe A...or is it A1 this week? I am not entirely sure, might even be in L or L1. His girlfriend lives there...Hell IDK, but wait another six or seven years and he'll be back in this one again.

 

[SKL]

Please, guys, this thread is old, it's premise was dumb, Strassman is a lunatic, doing Datura is a very stupid idea, adding DMT in any form is only going to make it stupider (and one of the reasons that you should avoid "ayahuasca ceremonies" with soi-disant "shamans," because they can add any damn thing into that witches' brew, including, apparently, sometimes, Datura, and sometimes, I'm told by reliable sources, various research chemicals and all that. It's a bad scene.)

If you want a funny story about Datura, though, here's one from way back that I posted elsewhere.

Story time with SKL. My only real experience with deleriants, and it second-hand:

Me and me old lady at the time. I'm travelling after some shows, with my girl at the time, both of us spun to all hell on some kind of cocktail of LSD, DOC, 4-MAR, ketamine, and probably some other things I'm neglecting to mention (remember, do as I say, not as I do), been up for several days, etc. We wound up in the city, in this tiny, filthy cramped studio apartment in the LES of this wooked out guy who introduced himself as an "urban shaman." Our respective collections of drugs come out and we party a little, then he reaches deep into his bag and picks up a big old bag of datura seeds. I know exactly what the hell they are and am quick to say no thank you, but the wook/shaman keeps going on about how they "impart spiritual power," and I wasn't able to convince my girl not to do it. She, having never been to the city, wants to go to Times Square of all places, and was a pretty headstrong chick, so let's just say I spent the next 24 hours or so trying to keep up with her deliriously wandering around the city and doing things like trying to go down on the up escalator. She was completely incoherent, conversing with people who weren't there, etc. It could've been a really potentially dangerous situation but thankfully even as much drugs as I had in my system I was able to manage things, but I would not be very interested in a do-over.

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