Discussions on taking physchedelics in the year 2017 under chaos

[tacodude]

With the world shrinking and shrinking, less food and less earthly resources being available, and from what I am seeing a very important time of the development of human beings of choosing to be what we are and till this earth so we do not lose all of our plants and end up with a burnt up planet with whatever predators evolve out of the human race after devouring everything else probably being dragons and sirens. With cases like the new one for Dr. Phil with a kid in South Flordia, who thought he saw the devil and ended up murdering someone, which sounds scarily like the results of scopolamine and with whats happened in the past with LSD and chemical warfare in the southern France town we all know of where LSD was massively dosed on people and covered up by a currently crumbling government. His 22 minute interview was pretty heartbreaking to see a person have to know while he tried to get high or if they ate the wrong plant? While any of these compounds can be healing in the proper dose with a Dr. please be careful everyone. Scopolamine is worse than snake venom as it hypnotizes you like the snake from the Jungle book and keeps you hypnotized as you are supposedly susceptible to human suggestion completely such as killing others in the possible example above or waking up three days later remembering nothing, but blurs of what happened and all of your worst hell and fear. In fact one might call it the forbidden fruit of knowledge and I don't intend to say that in a glorifying matter, but an endangering manner.

Some advice before putting any drug or substance in your body below
Before you decide to use any plant ask yourself:
Feel yourself before you think?
Ask yourself is this the right time to be getting high on something that might cause you to eat people as is obviously going to keep happening as these events become more and more severe whether intentional or not?
Are you sure you can exist in the state of being self in present, past, future, and then uncertainty?
Are you truly ready to not know?
Are you ready to focus on improvement rather than failure?
Are you ready to create conscious and morally stable state of being life even if just with one self?

I may be a nutjob or I may be a genius, who knows? who cares? I want to hear all of your opinions lets discuss!

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm trying to understand what you're trying to get at here. What does scopolamine specifically have to do with this? What's the bit about eating people? I pretty much agree that most of those questions are good to ask yourself before ingesting a psychedelic. It sounds like your post is half advice about how to mentally prepare for a psychedelic and half conspiracy theory about mind control or something.

 

[Solipsis]

Yes that does sound a bit incoherent. I for one will avoid deleriants that will 'make me eat people'.

Also I don't think trying to take on the world would be a smart strategy in any case. Even in the more hopeful revolutionary era like the 70s that proved to be a futile exercise. It is right to start with yourself, to become conscious... but you will have to first integrate that into the way you live and the choices you make. Never mind you painfully aware you may become about current chaos, it won't solve anything. Start building from the ground up. Achieve a stable and independent life and try to encourage others to become more aware.

 

[tacodude]

Yea I am sorry my grammar is not the best now. I have spoken this language just about my whole life and even today I am still learning. I just want to hear peoples opinions on anything regarding this topic as far as staying self conscious in a past, present, future, and physical state of being, but while staying objective on the discussion and not veering off on possibly crazy ideas and maintaining a balanced neutral state of being where the 3 states of time and the state of physical being possibly causing primal instincts possibly swaying towards a predatory nature or even Peaceful. To understand what I am talking about even to a degree they must have an open mind, but I state everything as hypothesis not as fact.

Just to state one fact I have done various psychedelics before and see how they can help or destroy the world as can anything on this planet as well as be completely forgotten. That is my opinion please think for yourself and develop your own as you have your own life and state of mind during the time we live on this Earth if it ever ends.

Edit: Never said deleriants make people eat people... People do.... The deleriants just cause such delusion one is able to accept acting in whatever way a properly trained mental health specialist could possibly get away with.... If prostitutes in Columbia can use this stuff to control tourists into giving away all their money to their handler then a hitman can do the same.... Speaking of the case of the murder for hire scam darknet site murder break? Dude got played out of a ton of BTC in attempt to kill their wife only to end up losing it and doing it them self with scopolomine based on thread posts and other evidence they found?

Again I understand what is being said Solipsis and plan just to do that death before earth, expanse, sea, fire, wind, and life.... Where life exists so does death again a fact.

 

[Solipsis]

I would say it is relatively easy: meditate during your trips and keep up the mindfulness, meditation and breathing exercises regularly so that you can maintain enough of that consciousness to withstand getting dragged along too much by things.
The answer is easy, to actually do the above well is not easy and requires routine and willpower. But still, not necessarily so complex.

edit: the problem may be not your grammar or vocabulary skills but that some irrational ideas can be very hard to crystallize and word properly. In my experience some of them may not be valid ideas, just unfinished and unclear intuitions. Be skeptical if you can't word it clearly to yourself or others.

 

[tacodude]

Oh god! Do I know,... I think were pretty close as long as the powers that pursued this planet to live and die if there is even any? Anyways off to see my Dr. Trying to be done with opiates myself and I will. Looking forward to hopefully some more interesting discussion!

Edit: Please tell me you did not see the speech last night after the one before where he said he was not anti-semetic! Ha just like all of us there are ideas we get from stories we hear, live, and create and boy did he create a doozie. Should I say doobie? To be that calm he must have hit some good indica

 

[Solipsis]

To take that seriously you would probably be permanently in a catatonic state of outrage, which is part of the problem: alternatively people desensitize and his word is not really weighed anymore because it is disjointed from our normal norms about how much truth and sense we want our politicians to represent.

Spare your energy before you exhaust yourself trying to convince people who don't even speak the same language or live in the same world as you anymore. Of course do what you can, but don't try to do what you can't or you will be lost.

 

[Xorkoth]

I choose to not focus on the terrible shit going on. I don't feel like I'm sticking my head in the sand, I am aware of it. But except for certain things, there's really nothing I can do about any of it. So by thinking about it all the time, all I am accomplishing is making myself unhappy and angry. It's just beating my head against a wall. By not focusing on Trump, and the corruption of capitalism and the genocide and so on, I instead notice the cool people and stuff in my life. All the great things that I can do and that other people are doing. Making art, and love, and nature. Since I am a happier person, I can help lift other people up. I can create art and music and be there for people, and make the world a little better for the people around me, and myself. It's all I can really do, but if everyone did that, the world would be a far better place.

 

[rujex]

Just feel gifted. Most generations before us had to go through a lot of horrible stuff. Nowadays is a piece of cake, compared to living a couple of hundred years ago.

Media might sound like the world is exploding, but that´s not true from a historical perspective. Live was/is shit for most people on earth. Now at least most people in the first world can enjoy their life - without hunger, war, epidemics etc.

Its actually really good at the moment. And even if it gets worse, its better then most people in mankind's history could have dreamed of. Just go to your bathroom and feel great, because you can take a shower with fresh clean hot water without any effort! That would have been a thing a of science fiction for people ages ago.

Trump wont be able to change this.

 

[Solipsis]

Objectively the world is doing well in a lot of ways besides the climate, however Trump's bunch of idiots may yet be able to change things for primarily the US but also other countries: to make things - policies - much more authoritarian closed and undemocratic, unrealistic also. Setting back some very human rights people have been fighting for for decades... if all of that is not closely guarded.

As for the world and the country surviving it without disarray and a lot of dehumanization, there might be a chance of that but unfortunately we can't really afford to waste time on any of this just looking at the state of the climate and the momentum necessary to steer us away from the brink in a couple of decades. The US has a huge exemplary function as it has been pioneering a lot of the industry that is also being developed in other parts of the world that all needs to be reconsidered rather than encouraged.

 

[tacodude]

I hear you Solipsis, but I think you misunderstand my intent. I want to learn more about the topic myself. The only way I can do that now is sense this at all angles. I just am finding my own answers at this stage. I just thought this would be a space to discuss this objectively in hypothetical nature until facts and evidence identify the truth only when unchallenged, which is quite probably not probable yet always possible. I will edit if I think of anything as I read through these posts.

Edit: I will add I inspired to learn what I can do myself to also help any way I can to continue life understanding what death brings. Whatever other people decide is their choice, but to say the least it is been more than the bible reading and news. Life in general has me thinking about the balance of nature as well as life and death. All together it paints a beautiful picture only few artists have been able to capture.

Also I remember a note up about during times of revolution.... I would say were pretty close.

It's also not anyone's planet... It is a planet that exists with life and death upon it not just the later.

 

[Xorkoth]

Just feel gifted. Most generations before us had to go through a lot of horrible stuff. Nowadays is a piece of cake, compared to living a couple of hundred years ago.

Media might sound like the world is exploding, but that´s not true from a historical perspective. Live was/is shit for most people on earth. Now at least most people in the first world can enjoy their life - without hunger, war, epidemics etc.

Its actually really good at the moment. And even if it gets worse, its better then most people in mankind's history could have dreamed of. Just go to your bathroom and feel great, because you can take a shower with fresh clean hot water without any effort! That would have been a thing a of science fiction for people ages ago.

Trump wont be able to change this.

I fully agree with this. Part of the problem is we have information overload now. Despite our tending to look to the past with rose-colored glasses, shit has always been fucked up for a lot of people, that's no different now. Except that it's actually better for a lot of people. There's always been oppression and suffering and genocide going on somewhere in the world, it's just that no one knew about what was going on across the world until recently. Used to be that you would get tortured to death if suspected of not being Christian enough, or stoned to death for being a social outcast. Slaves were forced to fight to the death for family entertainment. People were dying of diseases left and right, half your kids would die before reaching adulthood. A lot of stuff is fucked up, but a lot of stuff is good too. Without the global communication network we have, we'd only be aware of our local world. And for most people able to participate in this conversation, that local world would look a lot better without the overwhelming flood of all the fucked up shit going on across the whole world always being shown to you.

 

[tacodude]

I understand you quite well Xorkoth and agree information overload is one issue, but that is the external issue where internal it is the ability to sort through and navigate that information to make the best decisions on future actions based on past knowledge of your ideas of morals and facts of nature and delusion. Maybe it is not as simple as just black and white, but maybe black, red, grey, blue, and white so we can see the variations of yellow from light to extreme. So whats the opinion on this next statement.

Before taking a psychedelic ask oneself do I know enough of all or am I too focused on one to be able to still see one in the midst of it all? Am I ready to take what I know and don't and be able to sort through all of this information to think of what can be? Am I ready to experience my own perspective of the future and no matter how amazing or terrifying it may be can I still balance love and fear of life and death to exist and thrive?

I don't know I am just trying to figure out how to shape my ideas. There has been a lot of interesting speculation through this thread that I appreciate very much and understand, but haven't discussed as I haven't felt need. Anyways keep up the learning I will too!

 

[Solipsis]

I don't think information overload is either internal or external. Information may be something that can be external, but the overload already reflects what you describe as the internal part. Things really aren't black and white, I sure agree. Anyway, not important.

Your statement is a valuable question to ask yourself. I find it hard to speak at all for a lot of other people who may not have the neuroses that I do, but perhaps also not of a few useful qualities... others may have different challenges and different gifts so this question is pretty personal. I have personally had a lot of insightful and personal trips in the past, more often than I am getting them now. My perspective and horizon are quite expanded, but the things that can weigh me down (mental illness related) have not become lighter. The times I am relatively unburdened I do feel how liberated some experiences have made me feel pretty much permanently.

So I think this is one of those times where it is far from black and white, or simple: one part is freeing yourself from some external idea of how things are supposed to be, including how you should live your life. But another part may be learning how to tolerate stimuli, such as all this information. They are but two separate ingredients in becoming a free and functionally integrated being. Functioning really isn't so overrated, even if a big focus with these topics is the initial revelations and the personal transformation that can catalyze and enable. Integrating and using the insight are among the next steps, and that may mean different challenges to different people.
Some might not be able to let go so easily of what they have been taught, because how upbringing helped shape and develope their minds and the malleability. Some of that malleability is probably aptitude.

Beyond that we would have to get a little more speficic about love and fear of life and death... Discuss freely by all means! Though if this is not really all that much about psychedelics, we can find a place for this in Spirituality and Philosophy, which is not a bad thing.

A bit about the information overload itself: I don't see how it is actually a problem when it comes to freeing yourself. You are not required to actually sift to all information like having to develop an opinion about the world reading endless press articles and not knowing what track you're on. Whether you have a lot of information or a little bit, it will come down to how well you are able to formulate your own questions and search for available information on that. Having less information does not guarantee that you will find something useful. If any old philosophy book in a general direction was helpful in the past, then nowadays that is only as vague as you have to be to find such a book or better.

I don't think it is information overload but complexity that is difficult: sure we have so much to be grateful for that makes life easier, but sometimes it can get tedious to have to look after all those 'tools' and maintain it. Sometimes it also involves choice, like having to choose from many strange sounding studies than just the classical subjects (have personally seen that happen here). Makes one spoilt by choice, the germans say Die Quale der Wahl..
Unlike a choice for a study, searching the internet for example is not definitive and also not exclusive: you can search for any of the options.

Information overload does produce that gloomy effect from following the news, but that is not just because there is a lot of news but also because news is usually about pretty serious fucking things, because nobody wants to hear that everything is good in the hood and:

Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.

Well no, most things are pretty damn good for excellent reasons decribed above {,but Trump, the earth's population and what we can expect from the climate are both a bit of a disaster.}

In any case, taking psychedelics right now is very good to me because it helps me not to forget about that bigger perspective... and in that perspective, the thoughts and feelings that neuroses and other things push into my hang-ups get harmonized again.
Since psychedelics are so much about that perspective where such small things in life become relative and the big things in life, existence, dissolve those small things in the big picture. Is that more difficult when you are going a bit crazy from the chaos nowadays? Or do they become that much more effective?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

2017 is gonna be amazing. I've never in my life been more excited for the times and the positive possibilities. Great time to trip and meditate on the potential.

 

[Efoj]

Despite our tending to look to the past with rose-colored glasses, shit has always been fucked up for a lot of people, that's no different now. Except that it's actually better for a lot of people. There's always been oppression and suffering and genocide going on somewhere in the world, it's just that no one knew about what was going on across the world until recently. Used to be that you would get tortured to death if suspected of not being Christian enough, or stoned to death for being a social outcast. Slaves were forced to fight to the death for family entertainment. People were dying of diseases left and right, half your kids would die before reaching adulthood.

This is true and it's quite sensible to remember it.

Also keep in mind that while in our (relatively new) capitalist system we think of time as moving forward and progress as a dream that can be made true by technological advances, time has not always been like that for everyone.
Cyclical time (a.k.a. the concept of wheel of time) is a concept found in several religious/spiritual traditions and it necessarily means cyclical major disasters.
On the other hand, the kinds of disaster we can reasonably predict for our century (not sure if 2017) are quite new, different from major disasters from recorded history.
Quite different because we've never been so many billions of us in the planet. The garbage that we had produced in 40k years is nothing compared to the 100 years since the invention of plastics.
Quite new because our overpopulated world has weapons of mass destruction never dreamed of before. Not to mention climate change.

So yes we're better off with warm water and antibiotics than our ancestors 500 years ago, but also we can destroy our planet much more deeply than ever.

It's no easy time to be alive, with or without psychedelics. Yet, there's still much of the earth available. My latest psychedelic trip was at the top of a mountain with trees where I could listen to the sounds of nature: bugs and birds. There were 3 periods with extremely different sounds each: sunset, night and sunrise. At each period some bugs and birds were waking up, some were fast asleep, somewere waking up, some were sexually aroused. It's an incredibly complex system, with rich, beautiful sounds (not to mention the flowers) that 2C-P helped me appreciate more intensely. And I'm talking of a small, 1km high mountain.

My point is: you can't change the whole world but you (I) can surely act in order to save some bugs, some birds, some trees etc from the irrelevance and destruction that our 21st-century-schizoid-capitalist world-system assigns to them.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Is it new? Wiki says capitalism traces back to middle ages.

>The history of capitalism can be traced back to early forms of merchant capitalism practiced in Western Europe during the Middle Ages.[1]
>It began to develop into its modern form during the Early Modern period in the Protestant countries of North-Western Europe, especially the
>Netherlands and England.

1 - Jairus Banaji (2007), "Islam, the Mediterranean and the rise of capitalism", Journal Historical Materialism 15#1 pp. 47–74, Brill Publishers.

And they say US constitution is based on the magna carta....which is what I remember them saying in school when I was paying attention.

Also keep in mind that while in our (relatively new) capitalist system we think of time as moving forward and progress as a dream that can be made true by technological advances, time has not always been like that for everyone.

 

[phuckingnutz]

I may be a nutjob or I may be a genius, who knows? who cares? I want to hear all of your opinions lets discuss!

I'm leaning toward the former, but...

Oh god! Do I know,... I think were pretty close as long as the powers that pursued this planet to live and die if there is even any? Anyways off to see my Dr. Trying to be done with opiates myself and I will. Looking forward to hopefully some more interesting discussion!

Edit: Please tell me you did not see the speech last night after the one before where he said he was not anti-semetic! Ha just like all of us there are ideas we get from stories we hear, live, and create and boy did he create a doozie. Should I say doobie? To be that calm he must have hit some good indica

Is all this about Trump?

If so, you are getting all worked up about something you can't do much about.
I am a vehement Anti-Trumper, but don't let him ruin the short time you have here on earth. If you do then he wins.
Take a chill pill Taco. Humanity has survived worse than Trump and will survive him too. It may take a while, probably years. to undo the damage, but we'll make it through.

You're driving yourself crazy bro.

 

[szuko000]

^Yeah the current state of the world does not do anything to impact my mood or plans for the future. As far as I am concerned this is just another mind numbing pass time. The issue with sports was you only get to discuss them like you know something when they are on, this new type of politics coupled with social media gives every arm chair political science annalist the ability to blast their opinion all the time. I would get the apparent over investment if one could impact something beyond one single vote at times (which is also slightly more say then conventional entertainment) but id never waste my time arguing politics or even really thinking about them.

There are things way more relevant to my life which im sure people go "but this stuff is relevant" eh maybe in some way but its not worth my actual consideration. Having said that 2017 is the awesome year for me. This year is the realization of the last 2 years efforts. Finally moved out of my parents place to a place in the city downtown, got all new clothes and new nike sneakers, got some jewelry and am buying furniture in my new place as i did not own anything before.

I have found tripping in 2017 to be the most rewarding in my entire life... not bad for a former junky who got off methadone a year ago (i know it was somewhere between 3/4 and 3/10 the exact date i do not know)

 

[tacodude]

I haven't checked in on this thread in a minute, but the way the discussion has gone I can tell is a very good collection of info. It's really helped me get closer to understanding more about understanding the spectrum of life and death and what brings us to it and away from confusion. I have yet to read many of the posts. When I'm not just trying to sleep I'll give this a more thorough look.