Dilemma

[jchris93]

Not sure where to post this. It belongs somewhere between Harm Reduction & Trip Report, but I'm having some navigational problems.

I have something of a dilemma which has followed me for years, thirty to be exact.

When I was 15 I accidentally crammed too much self-analysis into a 4-5 hour period. The catalyst was psilocybin, and in amounts that would have had Timothy Leary running for a syringe of Thorazine to help me.

This event precipitated trouble of a complicate nature that has been debilitating. With social anxiety and agoraphobia, I feel like I've been walking in the desert, alone with this enormous task, forever. While I understand the situation more than one really could ever hope, being objective about such subjective matters is, shall we say, impossible? I've sought out all manner of professional help. But out of perhaps two dozen psychologists, nearly as many psychiatrists, and just vast numbers of people in psyche-centric fields, all I have to do is mention "Well one time as a kid I took psilocybin and it was (that's as far as the discussion is ever really allowed.)

It seemed obvious to me that if psilocybin is relatively mild to LSD, surely LSD must be the worst thing on earth! But to the contrary, when I eventually took that opportunity it agreed with my chemistry very well. I've taken it about 12 times, and every exprience was entirely pleasant at the least. Without thinking, I've blurted out the statement, "Acid makes me feel normal." Those that need or otherwise live in fear were horrified by that.

Why would the people most specialized in understanding the human mind go out of their way to avoid such interesting even crucial aspects of it?

Anyone who has thoughts on this matter, I would enjoy hearing them.

Sincerely

JChris

 

[perpetualdawn]

It's hard enough to psychoanalyze the default, non-psychedelic mind. I think it's just too hard, complex and potentially nonsensical for mental health people to deal with and take seriously. Psychedelics are pretty new to our culture, or at least you can say that they are pretty fringe, so unfortunately when you take psychedelics you're treading out of bounds. There is also a lot of stigma around psychededrug-taking, maybe undeserved, but that's the general perspective of mental health professionals.

I guess it comes down to: psychedelics are not well understood by the mental health profession, or by anyone really. Taking them is a bit risky for that reason. I think phuckingnutz said it on this forum*: psychedelics don't come with a warranty.

Maybe you have to conceal this mushroom experience from the mental health people, so that they can focus on the problems of anxiety and agoraphobia.

*actually maybe that was pupnik come to think of it.

 

[transitionsynth]

The reasons for this are mostly social-psychological, rather than being particularly rational or thought out by any given mental health professional. They mostly have to do with the sociology and politics of research funding, academic tenureship, recognized publishing channels and procedures, etc.. Just for example, with the austerity measures in place in the US, most research grants in the sciences require that the results already be known ahead of the time, with the proposed research or experiments being just ways of making an argument for results that are targeted ahead of time. This leaves little room for projects of an irreducibly experimental nature, such as psychedelics would be, where the results would be largely unknown and exploratory.

Academic psychologists and psychoanalysists cannot discuss psychedelics, at least until they have tunureship, because it’s not good academic politics. And practicing psychologists and psychiatrists follow the academic literature. And most of the tenure-ship age professors are from the generation who saw psychedelics come up in the 60s and 70s and became disillusioned about them. Younger academics are increasing losing the ability to become tenured, as adjunct professorships and temporary research fellowships become the norm. Many people from what is currently the older generation have the perception of the world in the 50s as a kind of self-correcting system, because when they grew up things by and large went OK with the economy and everything else. Then they see the end of the 60s and all these drugs and things come in and put the self-correcting system off balance. Their perception of it is radically different than the younger generation, and of course their entire careers are staked in the way they see things, so it's hard to give that up.

For the OP, I recommend that you start reading Kierkegaard if you already haven’t. This is a serious recommendation. Fear and Trembling and The Sickness Unto Death in particular. Then, if you have any stomach for philosophical reading, go into Sartre’s Being and Nothingness. If no one will help you, you have to learn to help yourself and that is what these books are about.

 

[jchris93]

Maybe you have to conceal this mushroom experience from the mental health people, so that they can focus on the problems of anxiety and agoraphobia.

I understand the experience very well. Seldom have I brought it up, except to get a sense of what another may know. That's what's happening at this very moment.

This may be likened to a PTSD situation. What happened, happened. That was 30 years ago. Now I want to finish healing.

The anxiety and agoraphobia are the central focus of the therapies, and my existence for that matter. I take a small regimen of medication; and SNRI, a SSRI, an axiolytic, and an "insurance policy" of Antabuse. (The latter I do not truly need to take.)

The days of freelance pharmacology are essentially over for me, btw. The thought of opioids is sometimes appealing, but no.

 

[phuckingnutz]

How do you know that the "trip" caused your problems...?
Could be that this shit woulda hit you anyway...just asking.

 

[jchris93]

For the OP, I recommend that you start reading Kierkegaard if you already haven’t. This is a serious recommendation. Fear and Trembling and The Sickness Unto Death in particular. Then, if you have any stomach for philosophical reading, go into Sartre’s Being and Nothingness. If no one will help you, you have to learn to help yourself and that is what these books are about.

I was passionate about philosophy, back when exploring the library involved physically entering one.

The WWW didn't ruin things, far from it, but it transformed the basic pursuits of everyone, I suppose, and Philos took a back seat for a time.

I was in the middle of a bout of Solipsism, anyway, bordering on Metaphysics. I needed the break!

I have a a small collection of books in the closet, including some Kierkegaard. I made note of your recommendation, and appreciate the suggestion.

The Greek Masters are pretty much committed to memory, as well as Nietzsche -- oh how I was a troubled youth!

 

[jchris93]

I have nothing against psilocybin. The experience took the sum of my self and my world, condensed it, placed it on a platter, and had me digest it in one bite.

"Could be that this shit woulda hit you anyway...just asking."

Oh, of course. But these things should occur at a certain rate. (Maybe that explains my dislike of buffets. )

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

It seemed obvious to me that if psilocybin is relatively mild to LSD, surely LSD must be the worst thing on earth!

I've never tried either, but from what I've read (and I've read a shitload on both) usually psylocibin is more likely to cause a "dark" or "scary" trip, maybe due to its confusing nature whereas LSD tends to be more clearheaded, thus more suited for simple recreation. many people underestimate psylocibin's potency because it's "natural" and all that utter nonsensical bullshit.
also, you stated that you took a seemingly huge amount of shrooms, so it is normal that the other trips were mild compared to that one.

maybe the psylo revealed some issues that you still haven't dealt with, but if you don't want to venture any further into your consciousness (which is very understandable) I suggest to try meditation and yoga techniques to relax your body and clear your mind. for many people they are literally life-savers.
also, check out this site.

cheers mate and good luck with your journey

 

[jchris93]

Endless Buffet

I've never tried either, but from what I've read (and I've read a shitload on both) usually psylocibin is more likely to cause a "dark" or "scary" trip, maybe due to its confusing nature whereas LSD tends to be more clearheaded, thus more suited for simple recreation. many people underestimate psylocibin's potency because it's "natural" and all that utter nonsensical bullshit.
also, you stated that you took a seemingly huge amount of shrooms, so it is normal that the other trips were mild compared to that one.

What you've read, and now have stated here, is spot-on accurate to my experience. And I agree, even though the deadliest substances in existence are "natural" many people are perplexed by that. A molecule is a molecule. Derived from a plant or built from the atom up (or down) it is the same.

I'm certain I took a huge amount. I knew the mycologist, and with Ps. cyanescens I should have stuck with a 1-1.5gm dose.

maybe the psylo revealed some issues that you still haven't dealt with, but if you don't want to venture any further into your consciousness (which is very understandable) I suggest to try meditation and yoga techniques to relax your body and clear your mind. for many people they are literally life-savers.
also, check out this site.

First, thank you for the site/link. It appears comprehensive, and I've stored it.

"Venturing further" has me concerned. The "buffet" metaphor I stumbled onto can be used here. ALL I DO is continue to digest what I've learned and what has been placed before me. It is paralyzing. First, cannabis was enjoyable and alcohol didn't make any sense. Six hours later (post trip) they had entirely switched places.

 

[psy997]

First, cannabis was enjoyable and alcohol didn't make any sense. Six hours later (post trip) they had entirely switched places.

Wow. This resonates so much with me. Thank you for saying this.

I too feel as if taking psychedelics at such a young age exposed me to too much of the world too quickly. I have trouble being part of the "rat race", when I know that at the moment, it's what I have to do to start carving out my place in the world, so that I can drop out of it.

I'm 20 y/o btw. Again, thank you, glad to know others feel this way.

 

[pupnik]

Yeah I'm the one that said "psychedelics don't come with a warranty"
I have said it before and will say it again, but neither does life,
so you can't take a broken personality to someone and expect them to relate and fix it even if they are in that biz (i.e. psychologists and therapists) though they will try their best with the tools available.
so it comes back on the person or individual to assess what's best for them.

by all means use people as sounding boards and read books, and each day start fresh to find a good way of being in this changing world, but mostly don't try to compare yourself to the others, what they got from life or what they got from drugs or what they got from watching a tv show. we each find something that is there for us, and usually it is not what was expected but not that bad either.

 

[psy997]

After the psilocybin catastrophe, I became Traumatized whenever I took even a few fuffs. It triggered the same response each and every time, too self-conscious, obsessed with what others thought of me, paranoid but not in the sense that "people were out to get cause me harm, but asa social paraiah.

Sorry to reply to such a small and insignificant part of your reply and story, but did this ever go away?

For me, it wasn't a hellish trip that caused it, even though I've had a couple, but more just tripping in general.

I'd like to think that at some point in the future I'll be able to hit the pipe a few times every one in a while and be fine, but IDK.

 

[jchris93]

Sorry to reply to such a small and insignificant part of your reply and story, but did this ever go away?

For me, it wasn't a hellish trip that caused it, even though I've had a couple, but more just tripping in general.

I'd like to think that at some point in the future I'll be able to hit the pipe a few times every one in a while and be fine, but IDK.

Yes, matters did subside a great deal, in respect to THC. What I learned was that only small amounts of cannabis were sufficient.

You mentioned that you are 20 years of age? Wow. ~Just 25 years ago I was at that age. But yes, at that time I would take only a few inhalations of cannabis smoke, inhale it deeply, hold it, then exhale. There was a perceived need to smoke it like like a mad man. But from Sativa strains to the hashish Indicas, 3-4 hits was plenty.

It is really quite remarkable, the variances between the two principle strains of cannabis. Bit I digress.

I that time, I did this perhaps 3-5 times per month. My focus on ethyl alcohol had begun, and the introduction of Stimulants.

 

[jason7]

Don't use any cannabis products if you suffer from anxiety because it's like smoking a few hits of anxiety. When I was out of work and filled with anxiety if I smoked just a little bit of hash I would get get super-anxious. It amplified the anxiety about 100x. I know people think Cannabis calms you down but it can be very anxiety provoking.

 

[jchris93]

Don't use any cannabis products if you suffer from anxiety because it's like smoking a few hits of anxiety. When I was out of work and filled with anxiety if I smoked just a little bit of hash I would get get super-anxious. It amplified the anxiety about 100x. I know people think Cannabis calms you down but it can be very anxiety provoking.

[May be veering off course of Psychedelics. But then, anyone who's had the distinct privilege to inhale the heated vaporates of 99.9% delta-9-THC vapor can attest to its stunning visuals. The constituent of pharmaceutical dronabinol is very much a psychedelic. ]

Jason, the 60+ identified actives in cannabis can vary so greatly. North America has and continues to refine its efforts, but hands down, Holland has been so crucial in this total process. Visit the hashmuseum or inspect sensiseeds. I was familiar with the Netherlands in 1988, and again enthused by current standings.

Suffice to say, there is a variety that does what you want it to do. In the US, unpleasant cannabis experiences are coming to an end. It's just not necessary.

Truly not much of a smoker myself, my house-cat has a friend in Colorado. A small sample of "Green Crack" was provided, and that name had me concerned for his well-being. I looked it up and it is controversial in its exact origins, and the poorly chosen name. Here is what I found:

75% Sativa 25% Indica
Genetics: 1989 SSSC Skunk #1 x Afghani Isolated Cut
Indoor flowering time: 55 days
Outdoor harvest: End of September
Indoor Yield: 600 g/m2
Outdoor yield: 800-1200 g/plant
Medicinal: Yes
THC: 18%
CBD: Low
CBN: Low

He reported a quite rapid onset of effects, almost adjustable 'on the fly'. Clear and energetic.
Uplifting in mood, outlook, and motivation. Enthusiastic, almost medicinal in its direct impact on PTSD & related symptomology.
No paranoia, not overly self-conscious, just pleasant. No tendency toward napping.


On semi-related matter, I offer some rhetorical trivia: Why do Twenties exhale their smoke so quickly? Rumor is that it works better that way, blowing the active ingredients out quickly. But this makes no sense on any level, that I can think of. It's like quicker than tobacco smoke! Thanks.