Differentiating Heroin Types & Making IV'able product from Heroin #3

[madameFrost]

Hi there.

I am a long time lurker and post the occasional reply but have a situation+questions. I appreciate all of the help you all are willing to give me.

1) I've been trying to find an "overview" thread of heroin and the differences of #3 and #4. Most information elsewhere I've researched claim ones white and the other brown, but varrying sources maintain opposite information of each other. i.e., source A says #3 is white, #4 brown while source B says #3 brown, #4 white. I know this is incorrect as there is a pharmacological difference between the two in their level of purity.

2) I have a very solid connect for H #4 which I've been IVing 1 or 2x weekly while the stash lasts but it's expensive. I can acquire heroin #3 for a far better price (as it's inherently less pure) and am wondering if it's safe to IV H #3 out of the bag, or if I'm able to preform a relatively easy at-home clandestine chemistry operation to prepare it for IV.

While I fully understand the risks of what I'm doing and have a vivid past with addiction to H, I'm not ready to quit yet, and maintain as sterile an environment as possible.

Thank you for your all's support!

 

[madameFrost]

Hey,

As I’m from the UK I’d thought I’d chip in - we get #3 almost exclusively (in fact, I’ve never seen #4 and only ever come across pharmaceutical heroin which would be classed as #4).

To prepare #3 for injection you need to make it water soluble by turning into its salt form. Add citric acid but only just as much as is required. Hopefully any adulterants won’t dissolve although this is a hope more than a fact. There a plenty of adulterants that will dissolve but I’ve never had a problem with anything mixed in with my gear.

You’ll need to heat the solution a little and stir then draw up through a cotton filter. Or through a fancy sterfilt syringe which you can buy through the internet here in the UK. Not sure what you have available to you where you’re at.

I’ve found that street #3 heroin has more of a warmth to it but only ever so slightly and this could be down to the presence of 6-MAM which isn’t there as a byproduct of manufacture in pharm diamorphine. I’d take #3 over #4 for this reason given the choice but even then, you’re taking a punt on how good the cook was in the first place. Guess I just like my heroin brown and smelling of vinegar because that’s what I’ve known.

Hey, greatly appreciate the reply and information. How exactly do you know how much citric acid is required? Is there some sort of noticeable change in the product as it's mixed in? Obviously with H #4 I just mix it up with NaCL (sodium chloride) and draw through a cotton, but those filtered syringes seem awesome, I have not seen those in the U.S.

Your anecdote of it being a warmer feeling than #4 makes me want to give it a go. Can't wait to try it. As far as the citric acid is concerned, do you just mean "don't douse your gear in it then draw up"? I think I can manage, but any information is appreciated. As far as you (or anyone else for that matter) knows, is citrus acid not good to IV? Possibly hard on veins like meth? I'm just concerned with the balance of how much to mix with the gear and the pros/cons of being over/under the "perfect" amount. As always, thanks.

Take care

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Hey,

Hey, greatly appreciate the reply and information. How exactly do you know how much citric acid is required? Is there some sort of noticeable change in the product as it's mixed in? Obviously with H #4 I just mix it up with NaCL (sodium chloride) and draw through a cotton, but those filtered syringes seem awesome, I have not seen those in the U.S.

Your anecdote of it being a warmer feeling than #4 makes me want to give it a go. Can't wait to try it. As far as the citric acid is concerned, do you just mean "don't douse your gear in it then draw up"? I think I can manage, but any information is appreciated. As far as you (or anyone else for that matter) knows, is citrus acid not good to IV? Possibly hard on veins like meth? I'm just concerned with the balance of how much to mix with the gear and the pros/cons of being over/under the "perfect" amount. As always, thanks.

Take care

Citric acid can be very hard on your veins if you add too much, so a safer alternative is ascorbic acid (vitamin C powder).


The idea is to add tiny amounts to your heroin and water mixture until it turns into a clear, brown solution. The #3 will dissolve rapidly when the acid is added, so if there are any solids remaining, these are usually insoluble cuts. Don't be tempted to keep adding acid until absolutely everything is dissolved, the resulting solution will be far too acidic and will burn like fire when injected. Ideally, the pH of the solution should be as close to 7 as possible, but when you're rattling, safe technique usually goes out of the window.

Ultimately, the best way to use #3 is to 'chase the dragon'.

Good luck and I hope you don't lose too many veins...

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Hey,

Hey, greatly appreciate the reply and information. How exactly do you know how much citric acid is required? Is there some sort of noticeable change in the product as it's mixed in? Obviously with H #4 I just mix it up with NaCL (sodium chloride) and draw through a cotton, but those filtered syringes seem awesome, I have not seen those in the U.S.

Your anecdote of it being a warmer feeling than #4 makes me want to give it a go. Can't wait to try it. As far as the citric acid is concerned, do you just mean "don't douse your gear in it then draw up"? I think I can manage, but any information is appreciated. As far as you (or anyone else for that matter) knows, is citrus acid not good to IV? Possibly hard on veins like meth? I'm just concerned with the balance of how much to mix with the gear and the pros/cons of being over/under the "perfect" amount. As always, thanks.

Take care

If it is stinging too hard you added too much citric. Generally a bump (20 mg or so) of pure citric acid is enough for a shot

 

[madameFrost]

Citric acid can be very hard on your veins if you add too much, so a safer alternative is ascorbic acid (vitamin C powder).


The idea is to add tiny amounts to your heroin and water mixture until it turns into a clear, brown solution. The #3 will dissolve rapidly when the acid is added, so if there are any solids remaining, these are usually insoluble cuts. Don't be tempted to keep adding acid until absolutely everything is dissolved, the resulting solution will be far too acidic and will burn like fire when injected. Ideally, the pH of the solution should be as close to 7 as possible, but when you're rattling, safe technique usually goes out of the window.

Ultimately, the best way to use #3 is to 'chase the dragon'.

Good luck and I hope you don't lose too many veins...

If it is stinging too hard you added too much citric. Generally a bump (20 mg or so) of pure citric acid is enough for a shot

Thank you both. Interesting that you say the best way to experience H #3 is to "chase the dragon," F.U.B.A.R. My only experience with dragon chasing is with black tar when it used to be my only means of acquisition. I will have to give it a shot with my soon to acquire H #3.

For the record, I've just purchased a pack of asorbic acid, vitamin C powder, and will use that instead of the pure citric acid. I believe I had done this in the past, actually, with the BTH, but cannot say it was effective or not (I used absorbic acid). I'm not even sure if BTH requires that, or if it does anything, becasue I used to mix that stuff up and draw as well when plenty of success. By the way, thank you for pointing out to add small amount until it turns into a clear, brown solution. That will help me out tons, an I do take your advice regarding insoluble particles seriously. I could see how that would lead someone to creating an acid pool in their cooker and frying out their veins.

I will give both techniques a go, hopefully the dragon chasing will suffice and I'll spare some veins. You both have been a huge help. Many thanks

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Thank you both. Interesting that you say the best way to experience H #3 is to "chase the dragon," F.U.B.A.R. My only experience with dragon chasing is with black tar when it used to be my only means of acquisition. I will have to give it a shot with my soon to acquire H #3.

For the record, I've just purchased a pack of asorbic acid, vitamin C powder, and will use that instead of the pure citric acid. I believe I had done this in the past, actually, with the BTH, but cannot say it was effective or not (I used absorbic acid). I'm not even sure if BTH requires that, or if it does anything, becasue I used to mix that stuff up and draw as well when plenty of success. By the way, thank you for pointing out to add small amount until it turns into a clear, brown solution. That will help me out tons, an I do take your advice regarding insoluble particles seriously. I could see how that would lead someone to creating an acid pool in their cooker and frying out their veins.

I will give both techniques a go, hopefully the dragon chasing will suffice and I'll spare some veins. You both have been a huge help. Many thanks

The base way to vape heroin is using a weed dab nail rig….not using foil. It’s way more strong and economical

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Thank you both. Interesting that you say the best way to experience H #3 is to "chase the dragon," F.U.B.A.R. My only experience with dragon chasing is with black tar when it used to be my only means of acquisition. I will have to give it a shot with my soon to acquire H #3.

For the record, I've just purchased a pack of asorbic acid, vitamin C powder, and will use that instead of the pure citric acid. I believe I had done this in the past, actually, with the BTH, but cannot say it was effective or not (I used absorbic acid). I'm not even sure if BTH requires that, or if it does anything, becasue I used to mix that stuff up and draw as well when plenty of success. By the way, thank you for pointing out to add small amount until it turns into a clear, brown solution. That will help me out tons, an I do take your advice regarding insoluble particles seriously. I could see how that would lead someone to creating an acid pool in their cooker and frying out their veins.

I will give both techniques a go, hopefully the dragon chasing will suffice and I'll spare some veins. You both have been a huge help. Many thanks

Actually, having re-read your original post, I see that you're already experienced with IV #4. So smoking brown just isn't going to cut the mustard.

Once you've gone down the IV rabbit hole, no other ROA will suffice.

When I had lost all the veins that I was willing to lose, I tried going back to smoking for a while. It was shit, but it did give me the incentive I needed to get clean.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

The base way to vape heroin is using a weed dab nail rig….

WTF is a 'weed dab nail rig?'

Us oppressed Brits need to know this shit...

 

[madameFrost]

WTF is a 'weed dab nail rig?'

Us oppressed Brits need to know this shit...

It's a piece of glass or metal that acts as a bowl for a bong and heats up extremely hot. You then place concentrated THC (wax) on it. Used to do that shit all night with the buddies

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

It's a piece of glass or metal that acts as a bowl for a bong and heats up extremely hot. You then place concentrated THC (wax) on it. Used to do that shit all night with the buddies

Ah, I see now. A bit like doing hot knives with hash then.


We're way behind in the field of THC concentrates in the UK - no doubt due to the fact its still fuckin illegal here...

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Hi there.

I am a long time lurker and post the occasional reply but have a situation+questions. I appreciate all of the help you all are willing to give me.

1) I've been trying to find an "overview" thread of heroin and the differences of #3 and #4. Most information elsewhere I've researched claim ones white and the other brown, but varrying sources maintain opposite information of each other. i.e., source A says #3 is white, #4 brown while source B says #3 brown, #4 white. I know this is incorrect as there is a pharmacological difference between the two in their level of purity.

2) I have a very solid connect for H #4 which I've been IVing 1 or 2x weekly while the stash lasts but it's expensive. I can acquire heroin #3 for a far better price (as it's inherently less pure) and am wondering if it's safe to IV H #3 out of the bag, or if I'm able to preform a relatively easy at-home clandestine chemistry operation to prepare it for IV.

While I fully understand the risks of what I'm doing and have a vivid past with addiction to H, I'm not ready to quit yet, and maintain as sterile an environment as possible.

Thank you for your all's support!

USUALLY Heroin 3 is brown and Heroin 4 is white.
To make Heroin 3 injectable you just need to add an acid (vitamin c powder/citric acid is most commonly used and they give it to you at the needle exchange if you ask...you can also get the spoon cookers, alcohol wipes, etc) and then boil it briefly.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I don't think that strictly the #1-#4 designations now hold true.

#3 was defined as uncut SE Asian heroin in the form of it's freebase. More commonly known as 'smoking heroin'. That's about 76% pure.
#4 was almost identical to medical diacetyl morphine hydrochloride. That's >97% purity. It was intended to be snorted.

As for #1 & #2, nobody could agree on quite what they would be. Maybe cleaned opium and refined morphine? After all, these were names used by people with little knowledge of chemistry.

Now due to mechanical losses, #4 often costs 50-100% more than #3 so I also believe it was a status symbol. I know Eric Clapton insisted on 'Whilte Elephant' #4. This is back when each block had a seal made from gold leaf. Very delicate designs that I presume were used to PROVE that it was as stated.

I did spend many years hoping to find a proper definition but even Michel Linnell has more or less stated that the numbers mean little. They certainly don't refer to purity any more.

 

[kokaino]

I don't think that strictly the #1-#4 designations now hold true.

#3 was defined as uncut SE Asian heroin in the form of it's freebase. More commonly known as 'smoking heroin'. That's about 76% pure.
#4 was almost identical to medical diacetyl morphine hydrochloride. That's >97% purity. It was intended to be snorted.

As for #1 & #2, nobody could agree on quite what they would be. Maybe cleaned opium and refined morphine? After all, these were names used by people with little knowledge of chemistry.

Now due to mechanical losses, #4 often costs 50-100% more than #3 so I also believe it was a status symbol. I know Eric Clapton insisted on 'Whilte Elephant' #4. This is back when each block had a seal made from gold leaf. Very delicate designs that I presume were used to PROVE that it was as stated.

I did spend many years hoping to find a proper definition but even Michel Linnell has more or less stated that the numbers mean little. They certainly don't refer to purity any more.

#1 "heroin" is simply raw opium
#2 "heroin" is morphine
#3 "heroin" is a freebase which is highly impure, may contain various morphine salts, etc
#4 "heroin" is morphine diacetate or diacetylmorphine HCL

 

[AlsoTapered]

#1 "heroin" is simply raw opium
#2 "heroin" is morphine
#3 "heroin" is a freebase which is highly impure, may contain various morphine salts, etc
#4 "heroin" is morphine diacetate or diacetylmorphine HCL

Well 2 of those would be 'morphine', wouldn't they?

The Afghans sell and have sold since the 1960s H.

I think it's the purity and methodology. For example 'US black heroin' is close to #2.

Because the methedology is so much more basic.

 

[kokaino]

Well 2 of those would be 'morphine', wouldn't they?

The Afghans sell and have sold since the 1960s H.

I think it's the purity and methodology. For example 'US black heroin' is close to #2.

Because the methedology is so much more basic.

Well heroin is technically a morphine prodrug. Even "Heroin" (which was brand name) is an ester salt of morphine. It is morphine diacetate or you can call it diacetylmorphine

 

[Shiloh Savannah]

Heyy everyone!! I haven't been on this site in a very long time. As I am sitting here reading all of these comments I stg I feel like I'm listening to a bunch of heroin using scientists!!! This is so funny. Not in a rude way AT ALL but I have NEVER heard anyone speak of using heroin as if they are chemists from Harvard!! I was a hard core addict for years and years and years and first off I've never in my life heard that there are 4 dif kinda of heroin nor have I ever used citric acid to bang dope... Only coke. Well I should say if it was crack,not coke in it's powder form, I'd use lemon juice. In which if I missed a little holy fuck it hurt like hell. But so back to why I'm commenting... I am just blown away by the way you guys speak. It fascinates me. It's like wow they all sound like a bunch of genius's but they are talking about heroin. Like fuck...you guys sound like you know every chemical composition and step by step outlines and ways to do drugs. I guess it's just pretty impressive to me. All I've ever done was open my bag, grab a spoon and throw some water on that bitch... Heat and shoot. I just love reading all the comments on here and like I said I am not trying to make fun so pls don't take it that way.
It's funny... I actually came on here to see about Nutradone. I'm on methadone unfortunately and I'm coming down so I'm feeling it a little and thought this stuff might help. Well... Gotta get my 6 yr old up for school. Hope you all have a great day!!! 🩵🩵

 

[AlsoTapered]

It's just a question of semantics.

 

[G_Chem]

Well 2 of those would be 'morphine', wouldn't they?

The Afghans sell and have sold since the 1960s H.

I think it's the purity and methodology. For example 'US black heroin' is close to #2.

Because the methedology is so much more basic.

BTH is actually #4 in that its heroin in salt form, likely acetate. It’s just crude as fuck cuz they acetylate opium or crude pod extract.

Well heroin is technically a morphine prodrug. Even "Heroin" (which was brand name) is an ester salt of morphine. It is morphine diacetate or you can call it diacetylmorphine

While it is a prodrug, 6-MAM is one of the metabolites and has unique psychoactivity from morphine.

Heyy everyone!! I haven't been on this site in a very long time. As I am sitting here reading all of these comments I stg I feel like I'm listening to a bunch of heroin using scientists!!! This is so funny. Not in a rude way AT ALL but I have NEVER heard anyone speak of using heroin as if they are chemists from Harvard!! I was a hard core addict for years and years and years and first off I've never in my life heard that there are 4 dif kinda of heroin nor have I ever used citric acid to bang dope... Only coke. Well I should say if it was crack,not coke in it's powder form, I'd use lemon juice. In which if I missed a little holy fuck it hurt like hell. But so back to why I'm commenting... I am just blown away by the way you guys speak. It fascinates me. It's like wow they all sound like a bunch of genius's but they are talking about heroin. Like fuck...you guys sound like you know every chemical composition and step by step outlines and ways to do drugs. I guess it's just pretty impressive to me. All I've ever done was open my bag, grab a spoon and throw some water on that bitch... Heat and shoot. I just love reading all the comments on here and like I said I am not trying to make fun so pls don't take it that way.
It's funny... I actually came on here to see about Nutradone. I'm on methadone unfortunately and I'm coming down so I'm feeling it a little and thought this stuff might help. Well... Gotta get my 6 yr old up for school. Hope you all have a great day!!! 🩵🩵

Smart folks like to get high too honestly for many of us this is a passion that extends most of our lives.

-GC

 

[AlsoTapered]

Diacetyl morphine acetate - yup, I note that 'black tar' seems to be just that. But I wonder if papaverine is also in there? A BLer with connections to India & Pakistan noted that 'whole' opium seems to produce a different high...

Just think, maybe for years we have been extracting something that might IMPROVE the high?

 

[Hexenstahl]

WTF is a 'weed dab nail rig?'

Us oppressed Brits need to know this shit...

A weed dab nail rig is simply when you do a poodie tang with a cutty style through the simmetow and finally tippy tie on your cappatown...SAH-DA-TAY!

(I wonder if any 90s kid will get the reference I just made)