Difference between "old school" meth (p2p) base and newer methods...

[crzydiamond]

Years ago I used methamphetamine commonly referred to as "crank"...made using p2p as the primary chemical(used often over a 2 yr stretch)

Then pseudo ephedrine based methamphetamine became common (difficulty obtaining p2p being one reason); I have never done this type of meth or any other type such as crystal

Question is: chemically what is the difference between the old school stuff and what is commonly available today? Has anyone had experience with both? The stuff I used--you did maybe 2-3 lines and were up all weekend. From what I read it seems the stuff around now isn't that long lasting...

Just curious as to what the difference in chemical structure is. I veered off into an opiate addiction and haven't used methamphetamine in years. But from reading bluelight it seems that today's meth is a lot different which got me wondering about why/what the structural differences are ??

 

[sekio]

"Old school" p2p meth is racemic d,l-methamphetamine, meth from pseudoephedrine is almost all d-meth, which is the actual active central stimulant (l-meth is found in some vicks nasal decongestant sticks), meaning on paper that "new" meth is about 1.5-2x as potent as a stimulant per milligram.

The half life of either in the body is about the same. Meth is just as long lasting as before, I'd imagine today there's a lot of shit that gets sold as meth that isn't though (cathinones etc), and of course some of it is bulked out or cut, etc etc.

 

[ebola?]

Honestly, I think that this discussion is better suited to OD.

ebola

 

[tricomb]

A proper red phosphorus / iodine reduction yields far better meth than phenyl-2-propanone produced crank. Remember that OD does not allow synthesis discussion and this thread is very likely going to end up closed, very soon.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

I think we've been exposed a lot to what p2p meth is, it's fucken Heisenberg's stuff! I have no idea if it is blue, maybe in such high purity it is, but before crystal meth showed up, I hear bikers and such (in the US) dealt crank which was brownish powder and definitely used the p2p method to be made. In canada and east coast US, where a lot of the Canadian meth pills are moved, it's different, some pills can contain very high grade meth, but for some reason you just can't smoke them effectively. They're to be eaten or crushed and snorted / IV'd. The latter 2 by the kind of people I hate normally.

But D-methamphetamine HCL nevermind the way it was made if pure shouldn't have any difference in effect.

crzydiamond : the meth to be found in white typical quebec and eastern canadian pills is a lot like the effects you mention (2 to 4 lines and you'd be up 2-3 days and still have 1/4 to 1/2 of your pill left. My understanding is that "methbombs" sold as E are the same thing, except you guys get cheated and they look like well made E prints. At least here everybody knows white crumbly pill with cheap ass logo = meth/amph (can be either or both, often with caffeine and or pseudo too) and high quality prints and colourful pills = MDxx.


sekio : you forgot about pipes, pipes made me get a script for dexedrine even if I don't really need it anymore ( I was on it for my 4 years of college)

 

[ebola?]

A proper red phosphorus / iodine reduction yields far better meth than phenyl-2-propanone produced crank.

Either process can yield equally pure product with the proper solvent-washing (and the racemate can be resolved to enantiomer-specifical product, but this cuts the yield in half).

ebola

 

[tricomb]

^Yes but the work involved to get a good crystal dextro-methamphetamine from a P2P cook is a serious waste of calories and chemicals, wouldn't you agree? I wasn't denying that P2P can be highly effective, just saying that RP/I reduc is much more commonplace because it is easy and it yields high quality crystal, depending on the cook of course.

I think we've been exposed a lot to what p2p meth is, it's fucken Heisenberg's stuff! I have no idea if it is blue, maybe in such high purity it is, but before crystal meth showed up, I hear bikers and such (in the US) dealt crank which was brownish powder and definitely used the p2p method to be made. In canada and east coast US, where a lot of the Canadian meth pills are moved, it's different, some pills can contain very high grade meth, but for some reason you just can't smoke them effectively. They're to be eaten or crushed and snorted / IV'd. The latter 2 by the kind of people I hate normally.

But D-methamphetamine HCL nevermind the way it was made if pure shouldn't have any difference in effect.

crzydiamond : the meth to be found in white typical quebec and eastern canadian pills is a lot like the effects you mention (2 to 4 lines and you'd be up 2-3 days and still have 1/4 to 1/2 of your pill left. My understanding is that "methbombs" sold as E are the same thing, except you guys get cheated and they look like well made E prints. At least here everybody knows white crumbly pill with cheap ass logo = meth/amph (can be either or both, often with caffeine and or pseudo too) and high quality prints and colourful pills = MDxx.


sekio : you forgot about pipes, pipes made me get a script for dexedrine even if I don't really need it anymore ( I was on it for my 4 years of college)

What? First off, breaking bad is a television show. It's not a legitimate source to reference for any HR purposes.

Second, I fail to see the relevance of ecstasy / methbombs. Your bit about "high quality prints" or presses rather, is completely false, there's no indication that the press is indicative of MDxx content.

I'm no authority on canadian meth, but I highly doubt that any methamphetamine that is meant to be sold as "high quality" is passed off in pill form. The high quality methamphetamine is sold as crystals, the clearer the better. No one would try to hide high quality crystal by pressing it into gross pill form... That would be just crazy, don't you agree?

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

It is here in the Eastern Canada/Quebec scene. Just look at pillreports, and even a lot of discussion here. "Speed" comes in white pills with cheap ass logos and are crumbly. MDxx is a lot more rare, more expensive. This is the way bikers who control this shit around here decided how things would be since about 2003. The legendary spedfaster on pillreports is a guy you should look for. He's from Montreal and peddles his goddamn meth pills. Even people here who aren't newbies have discussed White Quebec Speed Pills.

I was joking about Breaking Bad, chill.

 

[sunsetsuperman]

I used CRANK back in the 80s and early 90s the dope we got was never powder always ROCK. 1/4 oz would be 2 or 3 rocks of ASS KICKING DOPE, one hit you were good for 8 to12 hours.
Now for the D METH today... i cant understand how it can be the same drug Now i have done some from vegas, Arizona, Louisiana, ohio and cooked a few batches myself.
ALL WITH SAME RESULT..
The High from CRANK is probably 5 times stronger and 10 times better all around. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS CAN BE THE SAME DRUG.
THE CRANK HIGH WASN'T JUST STRONGER IT WAS BETTER FAR BETTER

 

[rave23]

Methamphetamine is methamphetamine, regardless of method of production.

There is no difference, unless the process produces stereoselective dextro or levo methamphetamine.

 

[ovo1024]

Methamphetamine is methamphetamine, regardless of method of production.

There is no difference, unless the process produces stereoselective dextro or levo methamphetamine.

Yes and no.

 

[sunsetsuperman]

I have been recently doing a lot of this ICE, swim knows better that ICE is 4MAR, but that's what they call it around here so we will also.
Swim finds it astounding that the l isomer when married with the
d isomer Can produce a HIGH that is FAR SUPERIOR than the actice compound alone. You just CAN'T. understand what I'm talking about unless you have done both, and the ones who have no what I'm saying or where i am coming from...
Its like comparing a high school sports program to THE PRO's
Swim has chased that feeling THAT CRANK HIGH for almost 30 years. Believe me d meth isn't even on the field, hell it isn't even in the ballpark...

 

[Raysu]

I used CRANK back in the 80s and early 90s the dope we got was never powder always ROCK. 1/4 oz would be 2 or 3 rocks of ASS KICKING DOPE, one hit you were good for 8 to12 hours.
Now for the D METH today... i cant understand how it can be the same drug Now i have done some from vegas, Arizona, Louisiana, ohio and cooked a few batches myself.
ALL WITH SAME RESULT..
The High from CRANK is probably 5 times stronger and 10 times better all around. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS CAN BE THE SAME DRUG.
THE CRANK HIGH WASN'T JUST STRONGER IT WAS BETTER FAR BETTER

That's my impression as well with a few exceptions-it's inclusive of high quality crank in recent years, while crystal clear shards were usually better some of the best crank I did was fine and/or slightly colored sometimes, and the cook determined the quality. I think too much today come from those who care more about getting the quantity out there to meet the demand even to the extent that it doesn't contain meth but as someone else said its cathiones and cut.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I used CRANK back in the 80s and early 90s the dope we got was never powder always ROCK. 1/4 oz would be 2 or 3 rocks of ASS KICKING DOPE, one hit you were good for 8 to12 hours.
Now for the D METH today... i cant understand how it can be the same drug Now i have done some from vegas, Arizona, Louisiana, ohio and cooked a few batches myself.
ALL WITH SAME RESULT..
The High from CRANK is probably 5 times stronger and 10 times better all around. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS CAN BE THE SAME DRUG.
THE CRANK HIGH WASN'T JUST STRONGER IT WAS BETTER FAR BETTER

Did you snort crank, or IV it?

Did you ever use Desoxyn? How did that compare to both crank, and ice for you? Is it true that the high from even large doses of Dexedrine and Adderall are weak compared to crank and crystal?

I have never used meth and do not want to but my friends who have who used both crank, and crystal meth in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 00s said how for them the high from crystal or ice was better but they would snort it or smoke it, and that the crank they had used was not as smooth as crystal and more edgy, and sometimes more weak.

 

[sunsetsuperman]

I prefer to administer drugs by IV. That was the way i did Crank and that is the way i do the Meth, but i have smoked the METH before, All with the same Result. The high is by far INFERIOR to that of CRANK. I MEAN THIS IS NO COMPARISON.
The Meth today has No Eurphia compared to THE CRANK, None..

 

[sunsetsuperman]

I will say it has good SPEED Properties, it will keep you up and the high is smoother. There is not much of a come down and i don't. GEEK for more.
The Crank. High was just so much more INTENSE.
ITS like comparing caffeine to Adderal...
Witch i do take for my ADD and i have done dexidrine and i prefer the amp mixture of addys..
I did do Desoxyns only once, so long ago that i don't remember the high.

 

[sunsetsuperman]

shoot 60. To 90 milligrams of adderal for somebody who doesnt normally use it will COOK YOU. BETTER than the ICE that i have done.
Now i prefer 120 to 150mg myself but I'm a BURNOUT.
DEXIDRINE I DON'T LIKE.

 

[sunsetsuperman]

as far as you not doing meth.
DONT EVER. It's Something you may never come back from. I am not an advocate of drug use, although i think drugs should be legal and cheap for the simple fact addicts would not be hurting others if they could get them easily and Cheap

 

[sunsetsuperman]

If you knew me you might find that amusing for the fact that i am addicted to or have been in the past to the worst of drugs... Heroin. Speed [meth] Coke. These drugs you dont get off of,
SO DONT EVER DO THEM

 

[nasir~]

Did you snort crank, or IV it?
Did you ever use Desoxyn? How did that compare to both crank, and ice for you? Is it true that the high from even large doses of Dexedrine and Adderall are weak compared to crank and crystal?
I have never used meth and do not want to but my friends who have who used both crank, and crystal meth in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 00s said how for them the high from crystal or ice was better but they would snort it or smoke it, and that the crank they had used was not as smooth as crystal and more edgy, and sometimes more weak.

I never had the chance to try 'Desoxyn' -It's not available in europe-, but I do use purified chrystal methampetamine (meaning d-MA) on the odd occasion.

I have only very limited access to MA in this part of the country (probably for the better )
Just 1 or 2 times during the year a good friend of mine comes to visit me and -you guessed it- brings a small amount of high quality crystal MA as a “present“.

In low doses it is a tremendously good stimulant with a long duration and also significantly less sideeffects than either racemic amphetamine, or dexamphetamine.

Since it's such a 'rare thing' for me, I use it only once in a while and with the intention to use it for its cognitive enhancing properties and as an alternative ADD medication.
I won't lie: It feels damn good!
Eventhough I am able to keep to my schedule now (which is: don't use more than 4 times a month, keep to one single dose of 25mg maximum and a couple of other things), I couldn't resist a few times in the beginning and abused the shit out of the 1gram I had.
Snorting it, vaping it and finally slamming the shit. And yes, 'normal' amphetamine (be it dex-, or d,l-) does not really come close to the euphoric high of d-meth.

But to get on topic again:

Tried racemic methamphetamine (product appeared not that clean/pure, though) on one occasion. It was actually nice, but not as good as great its enantiopure “counterpart“.

@'sunsetsuperman'
The reason your subjective experience may be like that, is probably because of things like selective perception, “in the old days everything was better“ and let's not forget tolerance and even neurotoxicity.

To sum it up: dextromethamphetamine (“Crystal Meth“) should be usually superior to racemic Meth.