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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Did I ruin my detox?

E

Enough999

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
112
I've been trying to come off heroin for sometime now and keep giving up mid detox. I'm afraid I did it again. On Sunday I took 5 mgs of suboxone, 4 on mon, 3 on Tuesday, and 2 today. Then I broke down and did a 2 bag shot. Do I need to find my subs? Did I waste the last few days or should I continue with tomorrow's planned dose of 2, then 2 days of 1 mg each, then dropping to .5 then .25? I'm afraid I'll have to restart and I have a job where I can't work while withdrawing. Plus I can't affford more subs. Someone, anyone, please help.
 
So you were clean off H for 3-4 days doing subs instead ? And u did bag shots that's it? I don't think you messed up way too much just get back on track I think you'll be where you were at 36-48 hours
 
Hello, Enough. I have detoxed many times and it never lasted. I was addicted to Subs one time. 8mg a day. I decided to do a Mikie Detox 101. I cut to half the amount, 4mg and stayed there for 3 days. Then to 2mg for three days. I kept cutting it in half every three days. I had films BTW but you could probably do it with pills. Eventually, I got to where I couldn't even see the amount, quit, and flushed the rest. I went to 12 step and stayed clean for 6 months or so. Even so, I was sick. But I was addicted to the Subs in the first place.

Many times, I tried to tough it out. By day 4 or so, when the w/d had peaked, I would screw myself and score again. Then, you are always at day 1. Sorry, that's the way it is.

In the past 2 years, I decided to get on the clinic and for me, it was the best move. Please remember that I am 64 and first got addicted to H when I was 17. I am at a comfortable dose. I don't mind if I stay on it forever. If you are young and motivated, then tough it out and get out of the life. It's a shitty way to live and I get the feeling that you are just starting out. In the middle of my life, I did three prison bids. All related to drugs. And I'm sure you don't want that!

I wish you the best. Mikie
 
Thank you. Unfortunately I've been at this on and off since age 19, so for the past 9 years with little bright spots of sobriety. I hate myself for going back to day one. Again.
 
It all depends how bad you really want it and the amount of will power you are willing to put in to make the effort and do the taper! Seriously, if you still find yourself wanting to use dope/opioids while taking bupe, or one day after you took it the day before, it will be hard to do a quick taper.. that is how it has been for me.. I tried tapers with subs, and every time would end up using dope/pharm opioids, the day I had no bupe left to taper with! I couldn't make myself do it, opiates completely took over my way of thinking and fucked with my head, to the point now where I am totally dependent on subutex, and have no desire to even try getting off of it! The withdrawls from long-term use of bupe are way worse than they are from any full agonist, except methadone from what I have heard from friends, and read all about... I almost was ready to just get on 'done, til my last time entering bupe maint.. and its the best thing FOR ME! not saying you should, just saying, it is harder for some people like myself, to just to a 1-2 week sub taper, and never think about doing opiates again or do them again... that is all I think about, is staying well and not getting sick whether it be me on bupe maintenance which I am doing fine on as of now, or opiates, I have stuck with bupe, and haven't touched dope, oxy, dilaudid, any of that shit in over a year now! just subs... and I feel normal! I look at it like this, if I am taking subs, at least they are easily able to be prescribed to me, so I have them legally, I don't have to worry about overdosing, because its not to easy to do with bupe, unless you are exceeding the ceiling dose, which is utterly pointless when 8mg is fine for most people, 16mg is way too much, but some feel they need it.. and I am not waiting around for my dope connects all fucking day, dying from wd's, in some parking lot for 3 hours until they are back again or can meet me, or whatever, I hate that waiting game shit with the dope/opioid addiction, always had to do it, usually when I had the worst withdrawls, and tons of money too! I just think its better to be on bupe, and stay on it, rather than taper, and keep relapsing after every time you do it! that is my opinion, I have relapsed more than a few times too after being on subs for years at a time, so I have no idea what my future holds, all I know is, if you are anything like me, you may want to consider going on maintenance, and subs don't work for everyone, you may need methadone.. It really just all comes down to how bad you really want to be sober! and how far your willing to go to make it there! Good luck..
 
It sounds as though you desperately want to quit. Have you gone to your doctor and explained your circumstances asking for help? I'm trying to taper off codeine right now with the advice of my GP, so I can relate to what you're going through. I've tried around 4-5 times before and obviously failed. It can feel impossible sometimes when you have responsibilities like parenting work etc.. Try to find some support groups or trusted friends you can confide in, as having peoples support and sharing your worries I've found really helpful and encouraging to carry on. If you see a doctor they can prescribe suboxone/subutex and taper you down gradually, in my case I think the easiest way is to do it very slowly so you have hardly any withdrawl symptoms.
To answer your question if I was you I'd start at the initial dose for a week then drop down the next week and so on depending on how you're feeling keep doing this until you;re taking some every other day. Btw I'm no expert on addiction but this approach has been the most do-able for me as trying to quit too quickly has always ended in a relapse. Good Luck and try to keep optimistic, most people need to try a few times before they master it.
 
^Yeah, that is pretty much how I was at first with bupe.. I was kind of forced onto it, it was either get off opiates and get on bupe, or get out of my parents home and end up homeless, and ultimately jobless, and carless.. with nothing and no way of getting oxy, or any opioid, my DOC at that time.. so I tried, and just couldn't stick with it... I relapsed many times, before actually finding a way, to take my bupe and like it, and after giving it a chance to work! I was very impatient and didn't really have that want to get sober feeling, I just wanted to keep doing full agonists, like oxy! and you really can not EASILY force an addict to stop using their DOC if they don't want to... even with using bupe to do so. So if the OP isn't really ready to stop, he may have a hard time doing a quick taper with subs, or even with sub maintenance like I did, and a lot of other addicts do! Eventually, I stuck with the bupe, and though it is not really advised for the most part, I had to resort to taking my subs other ways, than under the tongue! Sublingual works for a lot of people, and it only has a ~34% BA that ROA, but it wasn't quite doing it for me.. I then tried sniffing, and liked sub much better, then I tried plugging(the best option), soon after sniffing, and it is by far the best way to take bupe... it can definitely make you actually like the feeling of bupe that ROA, as it is much stronger, kicks in way faster almost as fast and strong as IV... but IV, that is DEFINITELY not recommended! Don't do it! I made that mistake a while back, and never could make myself stop... still stuck on subs, and still bang em.. so again, no one, ever go any further than plugging/sniffing them, it is not worth it in the long run.. plugging feels very similar, not as strong, but close to IV... ime at least, and its not abusive like sniffing or IV is, so it is fine to do your sub that way, if you have to.. I did, before that I didn't care for sub.. and just kept relapsing.. other ROAs were really the only way I could stick with it! This is only if you MUST get on maintenance and tapers don't cut it for you... its not easy! but if you have the right mindset, and will power, I have seen a few of my friends make a full recovery off of opioids with a short sub taper... but most who tried this, like me, failed.. not being negative, just stating the truth.
 
The problem with replacing heroin for subs instead is that you never really start a detox at all, instead you will suffer opiate withdrawl from bupe instead of heroin, I mean it's better to go through that then heroin withdrawl, but your still going to be in opiate withdrawl or dependent
 
I failed that attempt, was able to get my hands on 3 8mg this time and the 24 hrs are almost up. Can you guys help me with a taper schedule? I want to get this right this time.
 
Now I'm even more scared as I was using Xanax with each attempt at quitting dope. For the last few months I've been taking at least 2 mgs a day, unless I was on another weekly dope binge. I finished my sub taper and haven't used dope in over 2 weeks but am worried that Xanax withdrawal will send me right back to the dope.
 
I'm gonna be blunt and try not to be an asshole, but jesus christ my friend do you have a book of excuses? the bottom line is you either will or will not get off of heroin. Which one do you want? you gotta make a choice and fuckin stick with it. There's nothing you can't do you believe you can do it. Aren't you tired of the fucking bullshit? waking up needing a sub, needing dope, that paranoia of not having enough / enough money. Just fucking do it and man up, or keep living like a fuckin junkbox, take your pick.
 
I don't mean to sound pessimistic but leaping from opioid withdrawal to benzodiazepine (xanax) withdrawal is a tall order even for a seasoned masochist. Benzo w/d can be its own unique brand of hell and should be tackled with a taper plan just as the subs were. 2 months is not a long time and most likely not will not be a protracted w/d but not necessarily a picnic either. Even a steep taper can make a big difference and be the difference between success and relapse. If you have the ability to source any more xanax (or any benzo) and give yourself a little more time to straighten out from the Sub cessation, then tackle the xanax taper, the odds would be further in your favor. Congrats on the two weeks off dope as well.
 
Thank you. I have access to more, just not sure of the best way to taper, even after reading the Ashton manual. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Relapz said:
I'm gonna be blunt and try not to be an asshole, but jesus christ my friend do you have a book of excuses? the bottom line is you either will or will not get off of heroin. Which one do you want? you gotta make a choice and fuckin stick with it. There's nothing you can't do you believe you can do it. Aren't you tired of the fucking bullshit? waking up needing a sub, needing dope, that paranoia of not having enough / enough money. Just fucking do it and man up, or keep living like a fuckin junkbox, take your pick.
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If I didn't want off I wouldn't have done the sub taper, and I'm not trying to make exucuses. I simply have no experience with benzo withdrawal and can see that as a potential excuse. That's why I'm asking for help -to minimize any w/d symptoms so I don't cover them up with dope and return to my life as a "junkbox"
 
The Ashton Manual with its 36 steps is aimed at higher doses and longer periods of use that what you have described. At 2 months of use, a regimen of 10-15% dose reduction every 3 days would be a place to start. If you find it's too rough add a couple more days or increase the dose a little then start again a few days later. If you feel like a rock star then go even steeper into your taper. I'm not sure how much you were taking that was higher than 2mg so this is kind of a shot in the dark but at least an idea of what an effective taper would entail. I know it's difficult to try an estimate 0.85mg, etc. but this taper is worth doing especially if your other habit is on the line.
 
Thank you Jekyl, that seems more realistic for my circumstances than the Ashton manual and I plan to start by taking the same dose but cutting up one of the quarters in half and not taking it. Even with 2 mg in me I do feel sick today, but it's hard to separate the symptoms of it from just finishing the short taper or from the days where I felt so bad during the taper that I would raise the dose, then take less. I was so hell bent on getting through the sub taper that I completely underestimated the power of my "comfort mess." Then again it is only my second day without any opiate/opioid. Not sure if I should wait a day or two or just start now.
 
Starting your benzo taper while still in Sub w/d is sort of akin to Poly Drug w/d . I think there is a description of what that's like in the book Dante's Inferno. If you have an adequate supply of benzos or the ability to source more, a week or whatever you're able to budget med wise might be invaluable to improving the chances of success. Even 3-5 days of steady benzo consumption before beginning to taper might give you a short breather and allow you to begin battle with the second monkey on your back with renewed vigor. Keep in mind that alot of this will be mental as 2 months does not produce a protracted w/d and this will be over before you know it. Hang in there.
 
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