Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2013
- Messages
- 14,780
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Hiya EADDers n Bluelighters from the rest of the BL community
I thought I'd create a thread where people feel they're able to get help n support n discuss their medication (and alternative methods/treatments) for Depression as I often see this discussed frequently throughout EADD n throughout Bluelight (BL). In considering the vast amount of users (lurkers) who are not registered members of the site, I feel it may be beneficial in having a thread where everything is discussed in one place. Due to many people still feeling threatened by having a label of "mental illness" I feel they may prefer talking on this type of thread rather than one under the heading of "mental illness" - what I have observed from people, both online n offline, is that they seem to speak more freely about their "depression" n "treatment of depression" as opposed to "their mental illness" n "treatment for mental illness," Although it is really a case of fiddling with words/label anything that empowers a person to feel comfortable to talk n reach out is worth a try.
Any help with this would be very much appreciated as this is not MY thread, it is OUR thread to help one another and others suffering from Depression. There's a lot of misinformation about Depression n if we can help even one person then that's ace. I don't agree with statistics having studied them n known how they're manipulated n interpreted to suit a person's argument. When it comes to people n their health I personally feel that everyone matters n, although it's impossible to reach out to everyone - I believe that ONE person who fails to receives support is one person too many
Depression - what is it? - Symptoms, theories, myths
If you feel that you may have depression please seek help. People are often afraid of seeking help for fear that they will be seen as weak or or told to stop feeling sorry for themselves because others are worst off - these are misconceptions. Asking for help is being brave and the right path is trying to get better. Feeling low for a day or two is not the same thing as having depression. To have depression the feelings last for longer than a few days where a person will feel persistent negative feelings such as sadness, lack interest in things they once enjoyed, may feel hopeless and feel that life is bleak. Assumptions that depression is a form or weakness are incorrect. According to the NHS website 1 in ten of the population are likely to suffer from depression sometime during their lifetime, with depression or anxiety affecting 4% of UK children between 5 and 16 years old.
Many different factors can cause Depression, they can be biological, environmental an interaction of both. There are theories that depression is caused by a lack of serotonin, some theorise that serotonin and noradrenalin both are involved in depression. Things such as having a baby, seeing a traumatic event, divorce and bereavement can induce depression. When it comes to treating Depression GPs usually refer the patients to counselling or CBT or prescribe antidepressants or both. Although there has been criticism that GPs are over-prescribing antidepressants. This is a controversial topic. It is recommended that a healthy balanced diet, will help as well as a good night sleep (to be edited) Patients have been given gym passes for a period of time as it's thought that exercise will improve mood. During exercise endorphins which are feel good hormones (the natural opiate) are released.
Here follows the symptoms of depression taken from the NHS Website - but paraphrased somewhat to prevent copyright.
This website shows videos of people telling talking about their Depression as well as other resource and information.
Types of Depression
There are different types of Depression, as follows;
Depression Medications - Pharmaceutical m OTC/herbal remedies
- These lists are under construction due to confusing whilst checking that for UK names .
Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs)
Serotonin is one of many neurotransmitters in the brain. Neurotransmitters are chemicals which commentates messages by from the presynaptic cell, diffusing across the synaptic cleft, binding to specialist proteins otherwise known as receptors, (5 hydroxytryptamine / 5-HT) on the postsynaptic membrane. SSRIs are a form of antidepressant medication which inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, meaning that more serotonin will be in the brain. Serotonin is said to affect sleep-wake cycle, modulation of pain, control of aggressive behaviour, sex activity and regulation of temperature. They are classed as second generation antidepressants and were introduced as a result of the success of Fluoxetine in the 1980s.
SSRI usually between two to four weeks before they fully, with possible side affects during those initial weeks that will wear off. It is advisable to check any other medication to see that it will not have any negative affect when also taking SSRIs. it's advisable to read the label of any medication before use. St John's Wort cannot be taken with SSRIs. It's advisable to be cautious with SSRI medication if you have conditions such as; kidney disease, epilepsy and diabetes.
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
MDMA (Ecstasy / E) Will not work whilst on SSRIs. Using Dextromethorphan (DXM) whilst on SSRIs can lead to Serotonin Syndrome. Benzos, opiates, alcohol, Hallucinogens and stimulants can be used but can reduce affects.
Serotonin-Norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitors (SNRIs)
SNRIS were introduced as a result of the success of Venlafaxine in 1993. SNRLS inhibit the reuptake of both serotonin and Noradrenalin increasing their levels. This great of antidepressants treat major depression, various mood disorders and anxiety disorders, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), attention, deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), chronic neuropathic pain and fibromyalgia. Like SSRIs, this category are also classed as second generation antidepressants.
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
Refrain from taking any other substance that raise serotonin such as MDMA, SSRIs and St John's Wort as this could lead to Serotonin Syndrome. Be careful taking medications such as naproxen, ibuprofen, aspirin, warfarin as they could increase bleeding - especially if taking Venlafaxine.
Serotonin Modulators and stimulators (SMS)
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
Serotonin-antagonists and re-uptake inhibitors (SARIs)
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
Norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitors (NRIs)
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
Tricyclic antidepressants
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
Tetracyclic antidepressants
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs)
Resulting from the discovery of how iproniazid (which treated TB) improved depression, a category of antidepressant medication was introduced in the 1950s.
This group includes the medications;
Interactions with other substances
Avoid tyramine as it can increase blood pressure, suddenly, known as hypertensive crisis. Also avoid Ephedrine, pseudoephedrine and phenylpropanolamine for the same reason.
Dextromethorphan could increase depression or hyperactivity
St John's Wort
This is a herbal medication, it's botanical name is Hypericum perforatum and trade name of Hypericum. Studies have shown St John's Wort to be effective in treating mild Depression but not very successful in treating Major Depression. The ingredient, hypericin is what treats the Depression. This is usually consumed orally in capsule form or a liquid and it can also be consumed as a tea. Dose to be taken is 300 mg three times daily but of course it's always advisable to take medical advice from a doctor before starting on any course of medication and in checking the sufficient daily dose. Avoid taking this medication if pregnant, elderly, a child or taken other medications such as SSRIS, TAs and MAOIs.because they increase side affects and bring on a condition called Serotonin Syndrome (SS). SS can also be brought on if taking St John's Wort is taken with a cough medication known as Dextromethorphan. St John's Wort will reduce the effects of a medication called Digoxin and antihistamines such as; Loratadine (Claritin), Cetirizine (Zyrtec) and Fexofenadine (Allegra). Other medications to avoid is immune system suppressants, some HIV medications, some birth control, sedatives, Reserpine, Theophylline, triptans (used to treat migraines), Warfarin and others. Note: It's always imperative to read all medication labels fully before use to check for any possible interactions with other medications, side affects, dosage and so forth.
Therapeutic Intervention / Talking therapies
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)
Initially behaviourism, pioneered by John Watson, dominated Psychological Research, with the belief that only observable behaviours can be researched. Skinner, considered a Radical Behaviourist, believed that internal as well as external stimuli could influence behaviour. Built on Pavlov's Classical Conditioning, Studies by John B Watson such as "Little Albert" where a child was conditioned to fear fury objects. brought on early forms of behaviour therapy consisting of aversion therapy, biofeedback and systematic desensitisation. These were used for drug addiction, alcoholism and other behaviours
Pioneered by Aaron Beck (1960s) and originally termed Cognitive Therapy - after feeling unhappy with psychoanalysis in treating patients with depression. Beck found that people had automatic negative thoughts about themselves others and the future By changing these automatic thoughts, people behaved more rationally and felt better on an emotion level.
Albert Ellis Pioneered Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy (REBT)
During the 1980s and 1990s cognitive therapy and behaviour therapy were merged into Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT). A modern version of CBT is known as Dialectical Behavioural Therapy (DBT) which aimed to treat Borderline Personal Disorder (BPD) and more recently Depression.
Person-Centred Approach
The Person-Centred approach was pioneered by Dr Carl Rogers in the 1940s. It has three core conditions; unconditional positive regard, empathy and congruence. The counsellor doesn't give advice or directly challenge the client. The counsellor is there as a facilitator of an empathic environment to enable the client empower themselves.
{u]Drugs Counsellor / key-worker[/u] -
Not specifically for the treatment of depression, however as a lot of substance-abusers claim to suffer from depression, and this is a harm reduction forum for users of various substances, it's included
Helplines
United Kingdom
Europe
Africa
Miscellaneous
It is recommended that the following help relieve the symptoms of Depression
Diet
Aim to eat a good diet consisting of omega-3 fatty acids, so look at fish such as salmon, sardines and mackerel. Small piece of dark chocolate helps boost serotonin levels and release endorphins (feel good hormones), calcium eg Milk is meant to reduce anxiety / stress levels. Drinking enough, but not too much of, water, prevents hydrations which can lead to concentrate difficulties. Lack of B vitamins can affect serotonin production so foods such as Spinach and broccoli are useful. Tryptophan, amino acid is used by the body to make serotonin and helps make melatonin - so consume foods such as chicken, turkey and bananas. Bananas also contain potassium, vitamin A, vitamin b6, vitamin C. carbohydrate and iron B6 aids tryptophan into serotonin
Exercise
Cardio, high intensity interval training (HIIT) and max training are forms of exercise that help the body release feel good hormones known endorphins and are the human's natural opiate.
TO BE EDITED Under construction. This isn't MY thread it's OUR thread to try to help / reach out to as many people as possible n also to help n support each other.
Evey
-Disclaimer: please be advised that this is NOT im ANY WAY meant to be taken as replacement of seeing a doctor / seeking medical help. I am merely a stranger participating on an online harm-reduction forum, choosing to collaborate information from elsewhere into one place with the hope that others will benefit from this. Its always advisable to check any information you find, for validity especially when it comes to things such as mental ill-health n medication. For instance I am relying on information I learnt from previous studies and websites which may be outdated or bias. I should make Please check all sources when it comes to your health; be your own scientist; seek proper medication help when need it from GPs or other health care professionals n read through any leaflets (included with meds carefully n thoroughly. In my opinion I feel that, as ace as Bluelight is in terms of supporting people it cannot replace proper medical help n is best used as a tool alongside other help. To further note, this disclaimer is of my opinion only n written as advice n in no way telling anyone what to do.
Hiya EADDers n Bluelighters from the rest of the BL community
I thought I'd create a thread where people feel they're able to get help n support n discuss their medication (and alternative methods/treatments) for Depression as I often see this discussed frequently throughout EADD n throughout Bluelight (BL). In considering the vast amount of users (lurkers) who are not registered members of the site, I feel it may be beneficial in having a thread where everything is discussed in one place. Due to many people still feeling threatened by having a label of "mental illness" I feel they may prefer talking on this type of thread rather than one under the heading of "mental illness" - what I have observed from people, both online n offline, is that they seem to speak more freely about their "depression" n "treatment of depression" as opposed to "their mental illness" n "treatment for mental illness," Although it is really a case of fiddling with words/label anything that empowers a person to feel comfortable to talk n reach out is worth a try.
Any help with this would be very much appreciated as this is not MY thread, it is OUR thread to help one another and others suffering from Depression. There's a lot of misinformation about Depression n if we can help even one person then that's ace. I don't agree with statistics having studied them n known how they're manipulated n interpreted to suit a person's argument. When it comes to people n their health I personally feel that everyone matters n, although it's impossible to reach out to everyone - I believe that ONE person who fails to receives support is one person too many
Depression - what is it? - Symptoms, theories, myths
If you feel that you may have depression please seek help. People are often afraid of seeking help for fear that they will be seen as weak or or told to stop feeling sorry for themselves because others are worst off - these are misconceptions. Asking for help is being brave and the right path is trying to get better. Feeling low for a day or two is not the same thing as having depression. To have depression the feelings last for longer than a few days where a person will feel persistent negative feelings such as sadness, lack interest in things they once enjoyed, may feel hopeless and feel that life is bleak. Assumptions that depression is a form or weakness are incorrect. According to the NHS website 1 in ten of the population are likely to suffer from depression sometime during their lifetime, with depression or anxiety affecting 4% of UK children between 5 and 16 years old.
Many different factors can cause Depression, they can be biological, environmental an interaction of both. There are theories that depression is caused by a lack of serotonin, some theorise that serotonin and noradrenalin both are involved in depression. Things such as having a baby, seeing a traumatic event, divorce and bereavement can induce depression. When it comes to treating Depression GPs usually refer the patients to counselling or CBT or prescribe antidepressants or both. Although there has been criticism that GPs are over-prescribing antidepressants. This is a controversial topic. It is recommended that a healthy balanced diet, will help as well as a good night sleep (to be edited) Patients have been given gym passes for a period of time as it's thought that exercise will improve mood. During exercise endorphins which are feel good hormones (the natural opiate) are released.
Here follows the symptoms of depression taken from the NHS Website - but paraphrased somewhat to prevent copyright.
- Continuous Low mood or sadness
- Feeling Hopeless and Helpless
- Low Self-Esteem
- Feeling Tearful
- Feelings of Guilt
- Irritability and intolerance
- Lack of interest in things and unmotivated
- Concentration difficulty
- Lack of enjoyment
- Feeling anxious
- Suicidal Thoughts and, or Self-Harm
- Slower mobility or speech
- Appetite changes (Weight gain or loss)
- Constipation
- Aches and Pains for no reason
- Lack of Energy
- Loss of libido
- Sleep
This website shows videos of people telling talking about their Depression as well as other resource and information.
Types of Depression
There are different types of Depression, as follows;
- Major Depression
- Persistent Depression Disorder
- Bipolar
- Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
- Psychotic Depression
- Postpartum Depression
- Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD
- Situational Depression
- Atypical Depression
Depression Medications - Pharmaceutical m OTC/herbal remedies
- These lists are under construction due to confusing whilst checking that for UK names .
Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs)
Serotonin is one of many neurotransmitters in the brain. Neurotransmitters are chemicals which commentates messages by from the presynaptic cell, diffusing across the synaptic cleft, binding to specialist proteins otherwise known as receptors, (5 hydroxytryptamine / 5-HT) on the postsynaptic membrane. SSRIs are a form of antidepressant medication which inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, meaning that more serotonin will be in the brain. Serotonin is said to affect sleep-wake cycle, modulation of pain, control of aggressive behaviour, sex activity and regulation of temperature. They are classed as second generation antidepressants and were introduced as a result of the success of Fluoxetine in the 1980s.
SSRI usually between two to four weeks before they fully, with possible side affects during those initial weeks that will wear off. It is advisable to check any other medication to see that it will not have any negative affect when also taking SSRIs. it's advisable to read the label of any medication before use. St John's Wort cannot be taken with SSRIs. It's advisable to be cautious with SSRI medication if you have conditions such as; kidney disease, epilepsy and diabetes.
This group includes the medications;
- Fluoxetine - Prozac
- Citalopran - Celexa / Cipramil
- Sertaline - Zoloft
- Paroxetine - Seroxat / Paxil
- Escitalopram - Cipralex / Lexapro
- Fluvoxamine - Fevarin
Interactions with other substances
MDMA (Ecstasy / E) Will not work whilst on SSRIs. Using Dextromethorphan (DXM) whilst on SSRIs can lead to Serotonin Syndrome. Benzos, opiates, alcohol, Hallucinogens and stimulants can be used but can reduce affects.
Serotonin-Norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitors (SNRIs)
SNRIS were introduced as a result of the success of Venlafaxine in 1993. SNRLS inhibit the reuptake of both serotonin and Noradrenalin increasing their levels. This great of antidepressants treat major depression, various mood disorders and anxiety disorders, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), attention, deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), chronic neuropathic pain and fibromyalgia. Like SSRIs, this category are also classed as second generation antidepressants.
This group includes the medications;
- Venlafixine - Effexor
- Desvenlafaxine - Pristiq
- Duloxetine - Cymbalta
- Milnacipran- Salcipran
- Levomilnacipran - Fetzims
- Sibutramine - Meridia / Reductil
Interactions with other substances
Refrain from taking any other substance that raise serotonin such as MDMA, SSRIs and St John's Wort as this could lead to Serotonin Syndrome. Be careful taking medications such as naproxen, ibuprofen, aspirin, warfarin as they could increase bleeding - especially if taking Venlafaxine.
Serotonin Modulators and stimulators (SMS)
This group includes the medications;
- Vortioxetine - Brintellix
- Vilazodone - Viibryd
- Nefazodone
- Trazodone
Interactions with other substances
Serotonin-antagonists and re-uptake inhibitors (SARIs)
This group includes the medications;
- Etoperidone
- Lorpiprazole
- Lubazodone
- Mepiprazole
Interactions with other substances
Norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitors (NRIs)
This group includes the medications;
- Amedalin
- Atomoxetine
- Daledalin
- Edivoxetine
- Esreboxetine
- Lortalamine
- Nisoxetine
- Roboxetine
- Talopram
- Talsupram
- Tandamine
- Viloxazine
Interactions with other substances
Tricyclic antidepressants
This group includes the medications;
- Clomipramine - Anafranil
- Impriamine - Tofranil / Janimine / Praminil
- Desipramine - Norpramine / Pertofrane
- Dibenzepin - Noveril / Victoril
- Lofepramine - Loment / Gamanil
- Nortriptyline - Vivactil
- Amitriptyline - Tryptomer / Elavil / Endep
- Amitriptylinoxide - Amioxid / Ambivalon / Equilibrin
- Amoxapine - Asendin
- Butriptyine - Evadyne
- Demexiptiline - Istonil / Istonyl / Miroistonil
- Dosulepin - Prothiaden
- Doxepin - Adapin / Sinequan
- Imipraminoxide - Imiprex / Elepsin
- Melitracen - Deanxit / Dixeran / Mixeran / Trausabun
- Metrapramine - Tinaxel
- Nitroxazepine - Sintamil
- Noxiptiline - Agedal / Elronon / Nogedal
- Pipofezine - Azafen / Azaphen
- Quinupramine - Kevopril / Kinupril / Adeprim / Quinuprine
Interactions with other substances
Tetracyclic antidepressants
This group includes the medications;
- Mianserin - Bolvidon / Norval / Tolvon
- Mirtazapine - Remeron / Avanza / Zispin
- Pirlindole - Parazidol
- Setiptiline - Tecipul
Interactions with other substances
Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs)
Resulting from the discovery of how iproniazid (which treated TB) improved depression, a category of antidepressant medication was introduced in the 1950s.
This group includes the medications;
- Isocarboxazid - Marplan
- Nialamide - Niamid
- Phenelzine - Nardil / Nardelzine
- Hydracarbazine
- Tranylcypromine
- Bifemelane
- Toloxatone - Humoryl
- Rasagilin - Azilect
- Selegiline - Deprenyl / Eldepryl / Emsam / Zelapar
Interactions with other substances
Avoid tyramine as it can increase blood pressure, suddenly, known as hypertensive crisis. Also avoid Ephedrine, pseudoephedrine and phenylpropanolamine for the same reason.
Dextromethorphan could increase depression or hyperactivity
St John's Wort
This is a herbal medication, it's botanical name is Hypericum perforatum and trade name of Hypericum. Studies have shown St John's Wort to be effective in treating mild Depression but not very successful in treating Major Depression. The ingredient, hypericin is what treats the Depression. This is usually consumed orally in capsule form or a liquid and it can also be consumed as a tea. Dose to be taken is 300 mg three times daily but of course it's always advisable to take medical advice from a doctor before starting on any course of medication and in checking the sufficient daily dose. Avoid taking this medication if pregnant, elderly, a child or taken other medications such as SSRIS, TAs and MAOIs.because they increase side affects and bring on a condition called Serotonin Syndrome (SS). SS can also be brought on if taking St John's Wort is taken with a cough medication known as Dextromethorphan. St John's Wort will reduce the effects of a medication called Digoxin and antihistamines such as; Loratadine (Claritin), Cetirizine (Zyrtec) and Fexofenadine (Allegra). Other medications to avoid is immune system suppressants, some HIV medications, some birth control, sedatives, Reserpine, Theophylline, triptans (used to treat migraines), Warfarin and others. Note: It's always imperative to read all medication labels fully before use to check for any possible interactions with other medications, side affects, dosage and so forth.
Therapeutic Intervention / Talking therapies
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)
Initially behaviourism, pioneered by John Watson, dominated Psychological Research, with the belief that only observable behaviours can be researched. Skinner, considered a Radical Behaviourist, believed that internal as well as external stimuli could influence behaviour. Built on Pavlov's Classical Conditioning, Studies by John B Watson such as "Little Albert" where a child was conditioned to fear fury objects. brought on early forms of behaviour therapy consisting of aversion therapy, biofeedback and systematic desensitisation. These were used for drug addiction, alcoholism and other behaviours
Pioneered by Aaron Beck (1960s) and originally termed Cognitive Therapy - after feeling unhappy with psychoanalysis in treating patients with depression. Beck found that people had automatic negative thoughts about themselves others and the future By changing these automatic thoughts, people behaved more rationally and felt better on an emotion level.
Albert Ellis Pioneered Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy (REBT)
During the 1980s and 1990s cognitive therapy and behaviour therapy were merged into Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT). A modern version of CBT is known as Dialectical Behavioural Therapy (DBT) which aimed to treat Borderline Personal Disorder (BPD) and more recently Depression.
Person-Centred Approach
The Person-Centred approach was pioneered by Dr Carl Rogers in the 1940s. It has three core conditions; unconditional positive regard, empathy and congruence. The counsellor doesn't give advice or directly challenge the client. The counsellor is there as a facilitator of an empathic environment to enable the client empower themselves.
{u]Drugs Counsellor / key-worker[/u] -
Not specifically for the treatment of depression, however as a lot of substance-abusers claim to suffer from depression, and this is a harm reduction forum for users of various substances, it's included
Helplines
United Kingdom
- The Samaritans - 116123
- C.A.L.L. Helpline - 0800132737
- Depression Alliance - 08451232320
- Bipolar Helpline - 03333233880 / 02079316480
Europe
Africa
Miscellaneous
It is recommended that the following help relieve the symptoms of Depression
Diet
Aim to eat a good diet consisting of omega-3 fatty acids, so look at fish such as salmon, sardines and mackerel. Small piece of dark chocolate helps boost serotonin levels and release endorphins (feel good hormones), calcium eg Milk is meant to reduce anxiety / stress levels. Drinking enough, but not too much of, water, prevents hydrations which can lead to concentrate difficulties. Lack of B vitamins can affect serotonin production so foods such as Spinach and broccoli are useful. Tryptophan, amino acid is used by the body to make serotonin and helps make melatonin - so consume foods such as chicken, turkey and bananas. Bananas also contain potassium, vitamin A, vitamin b6, vitamin C. carbohydrate and iron B6 aids tryptophan into serotonin
Exercise
Cardio, high intensity interval training (HIIT) and max training are forms of exercise that help the body release feel good hormones known endorphins and are the human's natural opiate.
TO BE EDITED Under construction. This isn't MY thread it's OUR thread to try to help / reach out to as many people as possible n also to help n support each other.
Evey
-Disclaimer: please be advised that this is NOT im ANY WAY meant to be taken as replacement of seeing a doctor / seeking medical help. I am merely a stranger participating on an online harm-reduction forum, choosing to collaborate information from elsewhere into one place with the hope that others will benefit from this. Its always advisable to check any information you find, for validity especially when it comes to things such as mental ill-health n medication. For instance I am relying on information I learnt from previous studies and websites which may be outdated or bias. I should make Please check all sources when it comes to your health; be your own scientist; seek proper medication help when need it from GPs or other health care professionals n read through any leaflets (included with meds carefully n thoroughly. In my opinion I feel that, as ace as Bluelight is in terms of supporting people it cannot replace proper medical help n is best used as a tool alongside other help. To further note, this disclaimer is of my opinion only n written as advice n in no way telling anyone what to do.
Last edited:
