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Dennis McKenna, "Psilocin and DMT same thing."

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MetanoiaMan

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Watch and weep all those who doubted the insights and honesty of the MetanoiaMan. At the 5:10 mark he states, "The only difference between Psilocin and DMT is one molecule that allows Psilocin to be orally active WITHOUT a MAO inhibitor, and at higher dosages, you are in tryptamine land." Mushrooms, Ayahuasca, DMT, all get you into that place." Now stop your ignorant yapping and realized Ayahuasca and high dose mushrooms is the same experience. Stop fetishizing Ayahuasca as something new and different worth a ten hour plane ride. Pleased to educate all my Psychedelic Brothers and sisters...And the mods who questioned me, I am willing to accept your apology...;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yF2eJP_C4U
 
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... how is that any different then me saying "they are not the same thing" because of that "one molecule" as that "one molecule" exhibits a completely different charge balance for the compound as a whole. You can not add one thing and call it the same that is why MDMA and MDA are not the same.
 
You're still wrong. You know what else is one molecule from psilocin? bufotenine. Are you gonna claim those are the same, too?
 
DMT is not 4-HO-DMT.

That is a fact and not an opinion. No way to argue around that.
 
I guess nobody is arguing that mushrooms in high doses can produce an experience reminiscent to DMT/aya, but this still doesn't mean that it is the same drug. there are probably people who couldn't tell psilocin from LSD, same as you will find plenty people who think that DMT and mushrooms are not at all the same.

experience is very subjective, but this shape of a molecule is not. so DMT and psilocin are not the same thing.
 
Very very similar. The *same*? Not exactly, but close! Especially as the psilocin doses increase!
 
Not quite, and from a pharmocological perspective it is plain wrong.
They are very similar in structure but that doesn't always guarantee similar effects; DiPT is a strong auditory hallucinogen, but 5-MeO-DiPT is not and feels quite different than unsubstituted DiPT, despite the only structural difference being the presence of a methoxy group at the 5' position of the indole ring.
I've said it multiple times that high dose mushroom experiences can bring an experience that feels a lot like DMT, but they aren't quite the same.
DMT brings you to an insane level of psychedelic inebriation which is largely lacking in anxiety and can actually be quite calming, considering your whole world is melting into layers of intricate fractals.
Mushrooms, on the other hand, can make me quite anxious and panicked at very high doses, although intensity of the visuals are similar.
 
^^ Haha nice way to make that point..

MetanoiaMan said:
Here's Dennis McKenna. Watch and weep all those who doubted the insights and honesty of the MetanoiaMan. At the 5:10 mark he states, "The only difference between Psilocin and DMT is one molecule that allows Psilocin to be orally active WITHOUT a MAO inhibitor, and at higher dosages, you are in tryptamine land." Mushrooms, Ayahuasca, DMT, all get you into that place. Now stop your ignorant yapping and realized Ayahuasca and high dose mushrooms is the same experience. Stop fetishizing Ayahuasca as something new and different worth a ten hour plane ride. Pleased to educate all my Psychedelic Brothers and sisters...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yF2eJP_C4U
Click to expand...

Just so that nobody actually is convinced by your 'argument'...

He does not state that, he states that DMT and psilocin are just one 'molecule away', by which he must mean moiety (group, the 4-hydroxy), and then goes on to say that this tryptamine land is very much alike, I'd say that is his point. In terms of purpose, it both 'gets the job done' i.e. tryptamine land. But alike even very much alike is not exactly the same.

I too find that especially 4-AcO-DMT feels a lot like DMT qualitatively, however the whole kinetics / timeline of the experience is just different enough to make the trips significantly different. Just like route of administration for one and the same drug can mean quite a bit of difference. There are some psychedelics that are orally taken quite innocuous even up to pretty high doses, but snorted or via another parenteral route turn pretty drastic. That demonstrates the importance of kinetics for which absorption plays a role but also the extent to which the body is able to 'anticipate' the peak that is to come and to counter it.
MAOI do a pretty good job at undermining those bodily countermeasures, and I could clearly feel that qualitatively when I tried mushrooms with a MAOI.

So: DMT and psilocin, and also 4-AcO-DMT or other esters like psilocybin are all 'quite similar', but ROA and addition of MAOI can play a huge role - so please stop making incorrect deductions or rather... unhelpful oversimplifications.

What Dennis mcKenna says in an interview, wow, such scientific evidence..

Also: I think that schizophrenics should avoid psychedelics and other 'mind expanding' drugs like the plague. Having the boundaries between fantasy and reality inhibited is not conductive / healthy for that syndrome. Seems obvious.

(This post was moved from the other thread)
 
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You've tried to claim in the past that DMT gets turned into 4-HO-DMT before it gets to your brain (or was it the other way around)? That is patently false. The quote you referenced is saying they both get you there. By there, he means "hyperspace", tryptamine land. This is true. It doesn't mean they're the same substance.

Although I do think some people idolize ayahuasca in a pretty zealous way.
 
MetanoiaMan said:
The only difference between Psilocin and DMT is one molecule
Click to expand...

Emphasis mine. Sure, it may be only one molecule different, but as has been illustrated well in this thread, that one molecule is a world of difference.

And the mods who questioned me, I am willing to accept your apology...;)
Click to expand...

Perhaps what you mean is that they should be thanking you for essentially upholding 'the mods' argument by demonstrating and reiterating that psilocin and DMT are, in fact, different.

I'm really confused as to why you believe you've made the opposite point to what you actually have. :|
 
willow11 said:
Emphasis mine. Sure, it may be only one molecule different, but as has been illustrated well in this thread, that one molecule is a world of difference.



Perhaps what you mean is that they should be thanking you for essentially upholding 'the mods' argument by demonstrating and reiterating that psilocin and DMT are, in fact, different.

I'm really confused as to why you believe you've made the opposite point to what you actually have. :|
Click to expand...


Because the people who have made this their life's work(Ralph Metzner and Dennis McKenna are actually saying there is no difference between DMT and psilocin, and any difference is at a molecular level and is indistinguishable with micro science. And it is these men who are he lost experienced and most knowledgeable on these matters, but the people here are being pedantic micromanagers of consciousness.
 
MetanoiaMan said:
there is no difference between DMT and psilocin, and any difference is at a molecular level
Click to expand...

And you seriously see no contradiction there?

I really don't see how you came to the idea that this forum is full of people who glorify ayahuasca as something totally different or even superior to other psychedelics. It's perfectly valid from a HR-perspective to raise awareness about shady shamans and the problem of people drinking a brew without knowing what exact substances they are consuming in what dose. I think you will find many people here, who will agree on that. But with this "DMT=Psilocin" thing, you're really painting yourself into a corner.
 
the first time i took 3.3g of mushrooms i found it to be very similar to DMT. how light my body felt and the similarities in the visual aspect.

my conclusion is that DMT is the crack of mushrooms. definitely can't be the 'same thing' if their molecular structures are different ;), that's just silly.

they may produce similar feelings and subjective experiences but imo, that's just the nature of tryptamine headspace :)
 
Now that these silly claims have been clarified - AGAIN - we can move on knowing that DMT and Psilocybin (4-PO-DMT), while similar, do not both get metabolised into Psilocin (4-HO-DMT) before crossing the BBB.

I would like to advise that nobody attempts to resurrect these false claims without proper scientific evidence to back them. Most of us know this won't ever happen, though.
 
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