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Deleriants are actually dissociatives?

The Holy Quadruplty

The Holy Quadruplty

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Yes I know deleriants are termed deleriants to distinguish between hallucinogens with different effects as other hallucinogens like Ketamine (dissociative), Scopolamine (deleriant), and LSD (psychedelic). I've read that deleriants are a special type of dissociative, and have dissociative effects like Ketamine. Do you guys have anything to say about this, and/or have anything to support this?
 
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I don't think they disassociate your mind the same way. I've never done large doses of diphenhydramine etc but I hear they make you psychotic, smoking phantom cigs and talking to people who aren't there.
Ketamine-like drugs don't do this, they can have you tripping, but it's more closed eye visuals and sedating and pleasant. I've never had PCP but I hear that can drive people to psychotic behaviour.
Do you actually get any euphoria from deleriants @The Holy Quadruplty? What's your experiences? I only enjoy taking small doses of antihistamines to potentiate opiates (50mg promethazine or diphenhydramine).
 
Not really, neither they affect brain in the same way, sure there’s some overlapping but not at all that significant. And in effects there’s even less overlapping.

Nicotinic/muscarinic receptors vs. NMDA antagonists
Delirium(and drunkenness/dreaminess of sort) vs. dissociation(and psychedelia)

Less similar than opiates and stimulants as far as I consider.
 
Btw Diphenhydramine has some NMDA antagonist effects (I read that it does atleast), and the closely related antihistamine Promethazine which is also a deliriant has strong NMDA antagonist effects. Orphenadrine is another deliriant/dissociative very closely related to Diphenhydramine!
 
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i'm pretty sure if you read in depth you'll find disacociates like scoplamine (or whatever plant that is) and dramamine are messing up a different part of your brain and dxm and ketamine and pcp like block or cut some receptors or something. i have no idea the real terms. i'm no scientists. but i can say from experience dxm and dramamine are way different.

i think anything can make a person delerious. i took too much 5meo-amt and thought a cop that i met as a kid was in my room. he told me to go outside so i left my house, dicked around outside for a minute. went back inside and had some of the most intense and colorful visuals i ever had. i've done up to twenty dramamine and never really had anything with a person that wasn't there talking to me just like reality.

and talking about dosing since this is a harm reduction board. i never found too much of a difference between a 12 pack of dramamine and a twenty pack. lol. i actually took a twenty pack in my early teen years before i stopped growing and then when i was a later teen i was quite bigger, i only took twelve and it was the same thing. i took 12 a bunch of times and got visuals, the same as acid in lower doses like transparent and you can tell they aren't really there, not really like being totally delerious... i'm sure you could take more though, not sure if i'd recommend it though. that stuff feels like poison compared to most drugs.


and who says weed is a dissociative? lol. it just messes around with cannabinoid receptors in your brain. i've heard it considered a psychedelic and i will accept that, but i think it's its own special class of drug.
 
i always used to think about this too deleriants and dissociatives can both have psychedelic effects, but that doesn't mean they are psychedelics. i think you could probably think of real psychedelics don't really do harm to your body and deleriants and dissociatives can hurt you.... i really don't know if this is true.. maybe some newer research chemicals are both psychedelic and toxic at the same time, but i don't think that was traditionally the case from what i read. maybe i'm just passing on beat information. i don't know.
 
foodcrisis said:
i'm pretty sure if you read in depth you'll find disacociates like scoplamine (or whatever plant that is) and dramamine are messing up a different part of your brain and dxm and ketamine and pcp like block or cut some receptors or something. i have no idea the real terms. i'm no scientists. but i can say from experience dxm and dramamine are way different.

i think anything can make a person delerious. i took too much 5meo-amt and thought a cop that i met as a kid was in my room. he told me to go outside so i left my house, dicked around outside for a minute. went back inside and had some of the most intense and colorful visuals i ever had. i've done up to twenty dramamine and never really had anything with a person that wasn't there talking to me just like reality.

and talking about dosing since this is a harm reduction board. i never found too much of a difference between a 12 pack of dramamine and a twenty pack. lol. i actually took a twenty pack in my early teen years before i stopped growing and then when i was a later teen i was quite bigger, i only took twelve and it was the same thing. i took 12 a bunch of times and got visuals, the same as acid in lower doses like transparent and you can tell they aren't really there, not really like being totally delerious... i'm sure you could take more though, not sure if i'd recommend it though. that stuff feels like poison compared to most drugs.


and who says weed is a dissociative? lol. it just messes around with cannabinoid receptors in your brain. i've heard it considered a psychedelic and i will accept that, but i think it's its own special class of drug.
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Deleriants like Scopolamine and Dramamine work on muscarinic receptors, and dissociatives like Ketamine work on NMDA receptors. I still don't see much differences in their effects.
 
As a dissociative lover who tried diphenhydramine 500mg I can tell that these two drug groups are really nothing like each other. I know that DXM is commonly mentioned together with DPH, that's what caught my interest in the latter (DXM is possibly my #1 favorite drug, don't laugh but I prefer it over e.g. heroin) and I'm happy that I didn't dose the DPH higher but as you might know do dissociatives have a huge "therapeutic window" over different plateaus and already very low dosages (say 5mg MXE or 150mg DXM) come with a typical feeling of disassociation which the 500mg DPH lacked completely. Then even Salvia divinorum, being a kappa agonist, has more similarities to a dissociative but it is also its own drug group and not a disso.

Weed can potentiate dissos but I wouldn't classify it as one. It's very different too.
 
foodcrisis said:
and who says weed is a dissociative? lol. it just messes around with cannabinoid receptors in your brain. i've heard it considered a psychedelic and i will accept that, but i think it's its own special class of drug.
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weed is pretty much anything you can think of and I consider it dissociative in sense that it can detach cognitive contents of their familiar associates, but it is not that clear every time.
 
I think deliriants are all based on muscarinic activity. The mnemonic “red as a beet, dry as a bone, blind as a bat, mad as a hatter, hot as a hare, full as a flask” is often used.

Some people seem to enjoy them, but it seems kind of dubious to me - what with the number of people who end up in hospital... or dead.
 
They are nothing alike. I hae taken large ammounts of dramamine before the internet was really a thing and it was the most horrible drug i have taken. it was exactly like psychosis i have years later. All deleriants act as anticholinergics where as dissociatives act via the nmda receptors

Ket is absolutly nothing like this as in small doses of ket i can even function in public. Even in high doses your aware tyou took something with deleriants you think its real which is what makes it dangerous
 
paranoid android said:
They are nothing alike. I hae taken large ammounts of dramamine before the internet was really a thing and it was the most horrible drug i have taken. it was exactly like psychosis i have years later.
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Interesting that you compare DPH to psychosis. My "psychosis" was from sleep deprivation + dissociatives + random cathinones wrongfully labelled as dissociatives and consisted mainly of cop paranoia (but with a semi-plausible background, I might actually having had cops hunting me down but in the end it was all a paranoid thought construct) and hearing voices like police radio shouting down from the houses. No other hallucinations, specially no visual ones and in a more comfy situation than to be homeless in a city which wasn't mine etc. I would probably having been able to realize that it was all just in my mind. But I guess every psychosis case is individual.

Ket is absolutly nothing like this as in small doses of ket i can even function in public. Even in high doses your aware tyou took something with deleriants you think its real which is what makes it dangerous
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Yeah, this. I was able to function in public on high doses of deschloro- and ketamine as well as MXE, hell even 3-MeO-PCP. Never got a complete hole either despite passing out into disso anesthesia a couple of times. Don't know what's wrong, why I never got to hole.

But I heavily doubt that one really is able to get dissociative effects from delirants.
 
is dissociative effects supposed to mean like going into the k hole or are you just talking about the feeling of dissociatives as a body high? i never have gotten a k hole type experience from dxm and i always pass out at higher doses... i've gotten k hole type stuff from higher doses of acid. never really felt safe using ketamine. but witih lsd it's like traveling through tubes, what i'd imagine the k hole is, except lsd everything went super fast to me. like traveling through tubes into seperate dreams, going back into my body and then traveling through a tube again to another dream. i always thought the k hole was a passed out type thing, hearing about people crawling through a hole and stuff. i never really felt that creative with dxm.

if there were a way to win money telling the difference between say dxm and dramamine, i'd be able to figure it out at low doses anyways. maybe the original poster is going till dellerium or something...
 
I find concept of dissociation pretty hard to explain. And it has many forms. Some experts have described it as good as it gets with words. But I don't call it dissociative if it has not that certain mental dimension.
 
plumbus-nine said:
Interesting that you compare DPH to psychosis. My "psychosis" was from sleep deprivation + dissociatives + random cathinones wrongfully labelled as dissociatives and consisted mainly of cop paranoia (but with a semi-plausible background, I might actually having had cops hunting me down but in the end it was all a paranoid thought construct) and hearing voices like police radio shouting down from the houses. No other hallucinations, specially no visual ones and in a more comfy situation than to be homeless in a city which wasn't mine etc. I would probably having been able to realize that it was all just in my mind. But I guess every psychosis case is individual.


Yeah, this. I was able to function in public on high doses of deschloro- and ketamine as well as MXE, hell even 3-MeO-PCP. Never got a complete hole either despite passing out into disso anesthesia a couple of times. Don't know what's wrong, why I never got to hole.

But I heavily doubt that one really is able to get dissociative effects from delirants.
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I had full blown cotards syndrome and thought i was dead lol
 
I edited the beginning post of this thread! I feel like I didn't write it correctly the first time. I was very delirious while writing it. Lol
 
axe battler said:
I don't think they disassociate your mind the same way. I've never done large doses of diphenhydramine etc but I hear they make you psychotic, smoking phantom cigs and talking to people who aren't there.
Ketamine-like drugs don't do this, they can have you tripping, but it's more closed eye visuals and sedating and pleasant. I've never had PCP but I hear that can drive people to psychotic behaviour.
Do you actually get any euphoria from deleriants @The Holy Quadruplty? What's your experiences? I only enjoy taking small doses of antihistamines to potentiate opiates (50mg promethazine or diphenhydramine).
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I get very intense euphoria taking them with my opioids, benzos, and weed.
 
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