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⭐️ Social ⭐️ Debate I had over drug legalization/decriminalization with a meth head (your opinion?)

Do you agree with me that drugs should be legal, or with the other guy?

  • I agree with you that all drugs should be decriminalized except maybe Fentanyl

    Votes: 5 26.3%

  • I think most drugs other than the hardest should be decriminalized and just rehab for the hardest

    Votes: 2 10.5%

  • I think most drugs other than the hardest should be decriminalized with prison for the hardest drugs

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I only think weed and softer drugs like psychedelics should be decriminalized

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • All drugs should be decriminalized and there should be a safe supply

    Votes: 9 47.4%
  • Total voters
    19
M

Mycophile

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
4,319
Ok, so this was an interesting argument/debate that I had with a meth head on a reddit forum, and I was wondering about the opinions of seasoned drugs users, especially those who are into the harder drugs like meth, heroin, fentanyl, crack, coke, PCP, bath salts, flakka, synthetic cannabinoids and strong opiates.

I was in a true crime reddit page cause I'm into that stuff, and somehow drugs came up and one person said "I think drug offenders should get a 2nd chance", and I said "screw 2nd chance, i think all drugs should be decriminalized for 18 and over in the privacy of your own home." Then I said "I could MAYBE see the hardest drugs like heroin, crack and meth being illegal to sell and it being a case where if you are caught taking them you are just forced to go to rehab, but even that I don't think because I feel everyone should have a right to bodily autonomy." I said that I am actually only probably against the sale of Fentanyl with the prospect of Fentanyl dealers doing some prison time but buyers only being given the chance to go to rehab. Certainly prison time for ANY drug user is not right IMO.

Then this guy comes out of nowhere and says "I'm a former meth head, and that's easy for you to say that those drugs should be legal cause you don't have to talk to the mothers of the kids who have died of Fentanyl overdoses!!"

I said "well, I'm sorry for their losses, but if the drug laws worked then they would have saved their kids lives. Obviously they do not work because they died, and the war on drugs has had COUNTLESS casualties where people's lives are ruined simply because they wanted to get high. So I am for rehab for those hard drug users who want help, but I cannot support prison for drug users. I also think that Ibogaine and drugs like that can help people, and we have seen that prohibition never works."

But this guy just got more and more pissed and insisted that I be censored for saying this and that I don't know how bad it is if I wasn't a meth head or heroin addict and that these drugs need to be illegal.

Frankly, I was quite confused to come across a hard drug user who wants drugs (even if it's just hard ones) to stay illegal. Obviously he has been through a very hard time and seen people die like he said, so he thinks we need the laws (or even stricter ones?) to supposedly prevent the overdoses and deaths he's seen. But if the drug laws worked then why would these deaths have occurred? I seriously don't think the problem is that the drug laws aren't strict enough. If people want help we need a system where anyone and everyone having a hard time with any drugs can publicly admit it without fear of being arrested so they can simply get the help they need and go to rehab. There is no benefit IMO to prison for drug users.

I don't know this guy's opinion on softer drugs like weed and psychedelics, but he just seemed totally about criminalizing drugs.

So, I left a few different poll options, but my opinion is that all drugs should be decriminalized for 18 and over in the privacy of one's own home. I think that sale of Fentanyl should possibly be illegal with buyers just needing to go to rehab. That way the heroin on the street could be cleaner and less likely to lead to overdose deaths. But this guy basically just wanted all drugs illegal.

Who do you agree with? And, especially from the perspective of hard drug users, why would a drug user want the very same drugs he had a problem with to stay illegal? How could such a person believe these laws would prevent deaths when they haven't generally done so in the past (or have they?) How can any drug user think prison is the solution for anyone suffering from drug problems?
 
Guys, forget about the last poll option. That would basically be the same as the 3rd one where you think hard drugs should be illegal with prison time for both dealers AND users but not for softer drugs. I don't really think we need an option for people thinking softer drugs should be illegal on this forum as I doubt many of us really even think that.

So only use the first 3 poll options.
 
Legalize all drugs (but prohibit marketing), have govt-licensed facilities sell the drugs in measured, pure doses at a price point designed to make the black market unable to compete economically & relegate the unofficial drug trade to a niche, boutique status similar to the modern-day position of moonshine in comparison to the commercial liquor industry
 
Burnt Offerings said:
Legalize all drugs (but prohibit marketing), have govt-licensed facilities sell the drugs in measured, pure doses at a price point designed to make the black market unable to compete economically & relegate the unofficial drug trade to a niche, boutique status similar to the modern-day position of moonshine in comparison to the commercial liquor industry
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Yup, that's a lot like what I'd suggest.

But, can you explain the logic of a former meth head and hard drug user arguing for drugs to stay illegal? Like, doesn't it kind of surprise you to see someone who was into drugs now arguing that he and others should be thrown in prison for what he was doing? It just doesn't make sense to me. I know he must have been traumatized by seeing deaths around him, but the drug laws just don't work. I can't see how someone like that could argue that we just need more prison time for drug users to solve the problem.
 
I want regulated market (but not too regulated) for reasonable drugs like weed and heroin and meth.

Heroin and meth ofc almost never make lives better, they are not reasonable drugs from common sense perspective but they are reasonable options for people who do not want carfentanil or PMA or PMMA.

I would consider it just good customer protection to not let extremely high-potency super agonists or recreationally useless poisons into market chain. I know it is fine line to define "what people won't miss if they are given better option", but I think it is doable and probably won't lead to huge black markets of weapons of mass destruction and other shit. And customer protection should be priority #1, as should be not making it too easy to obtain drugs for people that do not want to get involved. So the drug markets maybe should be separated from grocery stores and other such facilities where former addicts go get their food. So they don't need to deal with temptations of "getting just one point now I am here".

I don't condone any kind of training for getting drugs, it sounds just stupid, government probably is so dumb it does not even know what it should train people for. But I think that it could work if people had sort of passport for dealing in drug store, and person could kill it when they decides to stop doing drugs, and turning it functioning again would take few days so people would have that time to reflect before they would be able to relapse. There is ofc the issue that people would then turn to black markets which probably never will completely cease existing. It might be also wise that passport is not connected to detailed information about purchases, just for privacy reasons.
 
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Mycophile said:
Ok, so this was an interesting argument/debate that I had with a meth head on a reddit forum, and I was wondering about the opinions of seasoned drugs users, especially those who are into the harder drugs like meth, heroin, fentanyl, crack, coke, PCP, bath salts, flakka, synthetic cannabinoids and strong opiates.

I was in a true crime reddit page cause I'm into that stuff, and somehow drugs came up and one person said "I think drug offenders should get a 2nd chance", and I said "screw 2nd chance, i think all drugs should be decriminalized for 18 and over in the privacy of your own home." Then I said "I could MAYBE see the hardest drugs like heroin, crack and meth being illegal to sell and it being a case where if you are caught taking them you are just forced to go to rehab, but even that I don't think because I feel everyone should have a right to bodily autonomy." I said that I am actually only probably against the sale of Fentanyl with the prospect of Fentanyl dealers doing some prison time but buyers only being given the chance to go to rehab. Certainly prison time for ANY drug user is not right IMO.

Then this guy comes out of nowhere and says "I'm a former meth head, and that's easy for you to say that those drugs should be legal cause you don't have to talk to the mothers of the kids who have died of Fentanyl overdoses!!"

I said "well, I'm sorry for their losses, but if the drug laws worked then they would have saved their kids lives. Obviously they do not work because they died, and the war on drugs has had COUNTLESS casualties where people's lives are ruined simply because they wanted to get high. So I am for rehab for those hard drug users who want help, but I cannot support prison for drug users. I also think that Ibogaine and drugs like that can help people, and we have seen that prohibition never works."

But this guy just got more and more pissed and insisted that I be censored for saying this and that I don't know how bad it is if I wasn't a meth head or heroin addict and that these drugs need to be illegal.

Frankly, I was quite confused to come across a hard drug user who wants drugs (even if it's just hard ones) to stay illegal. Obviously he has been through a very hard time and seen people die like he said, so he thinks we need the laws (or even stricter ones?) to supposedly prevent the overdoses and deaths he's seen. But if the drug laws worked then why would these deaths have occurred? I seriously don't think the problem is that the drug laws aren't strict enough. If people want help we need a system where anyone and everyone having a hard time with any drugs can publicly admit it without fear of being arrested so they can simply get the help they need and go to rehab. There is no benefit IMO to prison for drug users.

I don't know this guy's opinion on softer drugs like weed and psychedelics, but he just seemed totally about criminalizing drugs.

So, I left a few different poll options, but my opinion is that all drugs should be decriminalized for 18 and over in the privacy of one's own home. I think that sale of Fentanyl should possibly be illegal with buyers just needing to go to rehab. That way the heroin on the street could be cleaner and less likely to lead to overdose deaths. But this guy basically just wanted all drugs illegal.

Who do you agree with? And, especially from the perspective of hard drug users, why would a drug user want the very same drugs he had a problem with to stay illegal? How could such a person believe these laws would prevent deaths when they haven't generally done so in the past (or have they?) How can any drug user think prison is the solution for anyone suffering from drug problems?
Click to expand...
Decriminalisation of every drug is a must. Perhaps Kratom is an exception. With decriminalisation management of withdrawal would be a lot easier and the drugs wouldn't be cut with so much crap.
 
 All drugs should be legal (for people 21+ in private spaces) and strictly regulated for purity, warning labels, etc. All drugs should also be heavily taxed, with all revenues going to rehab facilities and research into preventing and/or curing addiction.

I am not in favor of substance abuse, but the illegality of drugs has always made the problem worse in every way.

But what if easy access leads to more overdoses? I also believe that suicide should be legal.
 
Mycophile said:
Interesting things in favor of drug use
Click to expand...
I can't say whether my druthers on this issue are the correct ones or whether yours are correct and mine not, but what I typically find of people who hold your position seem unaware of the fact that what you seem to want out of drug policy is the least likely outcome.
 
stupotmc said:
Nonsense and not should it. It has it's place
Click to expand...
I would also include fentanyl to legal goods. Not many like it, but some do. And apparently it has high analgesic value.

Carfentanyl is apparently dangerous even to handle, at least without proper protection. I would use that only for putting under elephants or something. It is essentially weapon of mass destruction as @Also_Tapered argumented (I don't know why I can't link to him, maybe the account name is off one digit or something). I would exclude it from common markets and I could see the point of keeping it illegal to deliberately produce it.
 
Pissed_and_messed said:
I would also include fentanyl to legal goods. Not many like it, but some do. And apparently it has high analgesic value.

Carfentanyl is apparently dangerous even to handle, at least without proper protection. I would use that only for putting under elephants or something. It is essentially weapon of mass destruction as @Also_Tapered argumented (I don't know why I can't link to him, maybe the account name is off one digit or something). I would exclude it from common markets and I could see the point of keeping it illegal to deliberately produce it.
Click to expand...
It could be used legally as an alternative to strong heroin, as long as it's used reasonably responsibly you can be careful. For the simple fact of knowing strength won't differ, instead of shooting a quart of heroin and not getting a buzz , then shooting a quart the day after and dropping. Fentanyl is difficult to cut. Shooting patches is not clever though
 
stupotmc said:
Only if you don't mind losing limbs regularly and want to die very soon.
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I'm only playing Devil's advocate here.

There are families of hundreds of thousands of people who died from those other drugs that would maybe think they are just as bad.

PS-- Also I think that if people had access to good drugs, shit like krocodil would disappear.
 
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