Opioids Could someone help me figure out how to taper Kratom?

[Mycophile]

Hey. So I know that this should probably go in the Kratom thread, but I want to start this taper within the next few days and figured I'd get more responses if I made my own thread, so mods: if you get annoyed by this then go ahead and add it to the Kratom thread, but if you wouldn't mind I would appreciate it if you could maybe at least let it be it's own thread first for a couple days so maybe it can get going with some people responding.

I posted this same thread on Reddit but have gotten no responses, so I'm copying and pasting it here.

It's a bit long, but if anyone who knows how to taper Kratom could please read it and respond I'd appreciate it, because oddly enough, after 5 years of enjoying Kratom this is the first time I've ever been TRULY dependent, in the sense of having gone weeks and not just days in a row without taking days off, and I have never tapered before and want to learn how. I am a bit worried that this is going to be hard because I've never done it before, but I don't think my level of dependence is as bad as some posters here, and I have heard many people say that tapering Kratom in such a way so as to get relatively low-level discomfort from withdrawals is not that hard, so I'm hoping that's true. Here's the thread:




Hey. So I'm not actually trying to quit Kratom permanently, but I'm trying to break my physical dependency, and I'd like suggestions on the smoothest taper I could use to have as little discomfort as possible all the way through till I have zero withdrawal symptoms.

Some background on my usage--I've been using Kratom on and off for about 5 years, even went a year without it at one point, and I've broken my physical dependency numerous times, but I've never ONCE actually tapered. All I would ever do is simply not use any Kratom at all for about 3-5 days, and my main symptoms are basically that I get EXTREMELY tired and just sleep for like 12 hours and can't feel rested and feel kind of depressed. The longest it ever took me to fully break my dependency was 5 days---3 very bad days and 2 very light days, till I was no longer dependent, and that has generally been the norm for me, which is about 3 bad days before I'm over most of it, but the thing is, up until a couple months ago I have never been a daily user and generally used no more than 3 days a week, so I think that's why I didn't need a taper.

Now I have been dosing pretty much every day for about a month, probably really closer to 6 weeks, and I have a very high tolerance and my sweet spot is generally between 11.50--12.25 grams, and most days I will dose twice, but some days only once, and occasionally I will dose 3 times in a day, but never more than that.

Please don't shame me for using such high doses lol...Years ago when I didn't really understand the importance of keeping my tolerance low I basically used so much that I believe I basically have a perma-tolerance now, because even when I have gone several months without using, when I go back to using my tolerance will go back to about 3 grams a dose, but if I EVER exceed that by more than like a gram or two...like experiment with 5 grams once or twice, which I always do of course...basically then the floodgates open and nothing short of my old doses of 11-13 grams will get me where I want. I guess they call it 'kindling'....but that's the case.

So yeah....I use mostly green strains, but sometimes a little white or red, on average about 12 grams a dose about twice a day....so I'd say I have about a 25 gram a day habit that has been going daily for about 4-6 weeks...but again, some days I might only take 1--12 gram dose, or rare days I might take 3 and consume about 36 grams or so in a day.

The interesting thing is that I can usually take just one dose in a single day when I first wake up, and then NOT re-dose that day, and go to sleep that night and I will still USUALLY not wake up in withdrawal that next day and will take my dose, so lately I have not actually felt withdrawal symptoms despite not dosing around the clock.

When I recently experimented with low doses to see what doses would make me feel comfortable without withdrawal symptoms, but without really giving me more than a mild buzz, I found that 6.5 grams usually does the trick, so yeah, I guess about a little more than half of my dose.



So, with those details in mind, how do you guys suggest I taper off to break my dependency in the smoothest way possible to have as few withdrawal symptoms as possible? I mean, I would preferably also like to no longer be physically dependent as soon as possible, but obviously I'd assume the slower the taper the fewer the symptoms so that's what I'd prefer.



Since I am pretty sure that 6.5 grams is the lowest dose I know will stave off withdrawals should I start there? Or should I try to test out if a slightly lower dose also works to keep them at bay?

And how slowly should I titrate down per day/per every few days?

My goal is not only to break my dependency, but once I have broken it I would like to go a full week completely Kratom free, as I think that if I can go a full 7 days in a row without dosing AND without having any W.D. then that truly means I'm off it.

And approximately how long do you guys think it would take me to fully break my dependency, with as few W.D. symptoms as possible of course, with where it's at now? Like, if you guys had not really been dependent prior to about 4-6 weeks ago, but were now taking an average of about 25 grams a day, some days 12 if I only dose once, but other odd days if I dose 3 times more like 36 grams (usually I dose twice in a day, about 12 grams each), and you were at the point I'm at, where USUALLY I don't wake up in WD and can often get by with one dose in 24 hours before W.D. starts, approximately how do you think you would taper and how long do you think it would take you to no longer be dependent? Would you anticipate really bad withdrawals or do you think you could taper off pretty smoothly if you went slowly?

Do you think I could do it in 2-3 weeks, or do you think it would take a month or more?

I am hoping that it would not take more than a month, but I'd rather it take longer and be smoother with fewer symptoms than shorter and more uncomfortable...



Anyways, sorry for such a long post. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I find kratom withdrawal isn't like real opiate withdrawal in a way, because if I taper down I don't feel much of a change within my body. If I taper off oxy though for example, I'd feel horrible. The longer and slower you can taper off is obviously the better way to adjust to the differences.

If you want to get off it more quickly, you can use it only for waking up and sleeping and feeling a bit awful in between. You're asking alot of questions about it, but there's no way to fully avoid the toll. You're going to feel pretty bad at some points no matter what approach. So the longer you taper off will help that aspect greatly. But there's no way to come off it unless you get on subs without feeling discomfort at certain points. However, listening to what your body is telling you is more important than the time period you withdraw by in my opinion. There's just so many factors involved.

Sorry if any of that came off as harsh.

 

[OrbitalCombustion]

Hey. So I know that this should probably go in the Kratom thread, but I want to start this taper within the next few days and figured I'd get more responses if I made my own thread, so mods: if you get annoyed by this then go ahead and add it to the Kratom thread, but if you wouldn't mind I would appreciate it if you could maybe at least let it be it's own thread first for a couple days so maybe it can get going with some people responding.

I posted this same thread on Reddit but have gotten no responses, so I'm copying and pasting it here.

It's a bit long, but if anyone who knows how to taper Kratom could please read it and respond I'd appreciate it, because oddly enough, after 5 years of enjoying Kratom this is the first time I've ever been TRULY dependent, in the sense of having gone weeks and not just days in a row without taking days off, and I have never tapered before and want to learn how. I am a bit worried that this is going to be hard because I've never done it before, but I don't think my level of dependence is as bad as some posters here, and I have heard many people say that tapering Kratom in such a way so as to get relatively low-level discomfort from withdrawals is not that hard, so I'm hoping that's true. Here's the thread:




Hey. So I'm not actually trying to quit Kratom permanently, but I'm trying to break my physical dependency, and I'd like suggestions on the smoothest taper I could use to have as little discomfort as possible all the way through till I have zero withdrawal symptoms.

Some background on my usage--I've been using Kratom on and off for about 5 years, even went a year without it at one point, and I've broken my physical dependency numerous times, but I've never ONCE actually tapered. All I would ever do is simply not use any Kratom at all for about 3-5 days, and my main symptoms are basically that I get EXTREMELY tired and just sleep for like 12 hours and can't feel rested and feel kind of depressed. The longest it ever took me to fully break my dependency was 5 days---3 very bad days and 2 very light days, till I was no longer dependent, and that has generally been the norm for me, which is about 3 bad days before I'm over most of it, but the thing is, up until a couple months ago I have never been a daily user and generally used no more than 3 days a week, so I think that's why I didn't need a taper.

Now I have been dosing pretty much every day for about a month, probably really closer to 6 weeks, and I have a very high tolerance and my sweet spot is generally between 11.50--12.25 grams, and most days I will dose twice, but some days only once, and occasionally I will dose 3 times in a day, but never more than that.

Please don't shame me for using such high doses lol...Years ago when I didn't really understand the importance of keeping my tolerance low I basically used so much that I believe I basically have a perma-tolerance now, because even when I have gone several months without using, when I go back to using my tolerance will go back to about 3 grams a dose, but if I EVER exceed that by more than like a gram or two...like experiment with 5 grams once or twice, which I always do of course...basically then the floodgates open and nothing short of my old doses of 11-13 grams will get me where I want. I guess they call it 'kindling'....but that's the case.

So yeah....I use mostly green strains, but sometimes a little white or red, on average about 12 grams a dose about twice a day....so I'd say I have about a 25 gram a day habit that has been going daily for about 4-6 weeks...but again, some days I might only take 1--12 gram dose, or rare days I might take 3 and consume about 36 grams or so in a day.

The interesting thing is that I can usually take just one dose in a single day when I first wake up, and then NOT re-dose that day, and go to sleep that night and I will still USUALLY not wake up in withdrawal that next day and will take my dose, so lately I have not actually felt withdrawal symptoms despite not dosing around the clock.

When I recently experimented with low doses to see what doses would make me feel comfortable without withdrawal symptoms, but without really giving me more than a mild buzz, I found that 6.5 grams usually does the trick, so yeah, I guess about a little more than half of my dose.



So, with those details in mind, how do you guys suggest I taper off to break my dependency in the smoothest way possible to have as few withdrawal symptoms as possible? I mean, I would preferably also like to no longer be physically dependent as soon as possible, but obviously I'd assume the slower the taper the fewer the symptoms so that's what I'd prefer.



Since I am pretty sure that 6.5 grams is the lowest dose I know will stave off withdrawals should I start there? Or should I try to test out if a slightly lower dose also works to keep them at bay?

And how slowly should I titrate down per day/per every few days?

My goal is not only to break my dependency, but once I have broken it I would like to go a full week completely Kratom free, as I think that if I can go a full 7 days in a row without dosing AND without having any W.D. then that truly means I'm off it.

And approximately how long do you guys think it would take me to fully break my dependency, with as few W.D. symptoms as possible of course, with where it's at now? Like, if you guys had not really been dependent prior to about 4-6 weeks ago, but were now taking an average of about 25 grams a day, some days 12 if I only dose once, but other odd days if I dose 3 times more like 36 grams (usually I dose twice in a day, about 12 grams each), and you were at the point I'm at, where USUALLY I don't wake up in WD and can often get by with one dose in 24 hours before W.D. starts, approximately how do you think you would taper and how long do you think it would take you to no longer be dependent? Would you anticipate really bad withdrawals or do you think you could taper off pretty smoothly if you went slowly?

Do you think I could do it in 2-3 weeks, or do you think it would take a month or more?

I am hoping that it would not take more than a month, but I'd rather it take longer and be smoother with fewer symptoms than shorter and more uncomfortable...



Anyways, sorry for such a long post. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

You need to experiment and determine for yourself, it is dependent on strain, dosage, frequency of use, and body chemistry. You seem to have same effects I did, extreme lethargy. Start slowly reducing consumption, if you are taking 25 grams a day for example, make the next day 24 grams and observe your body’s reaction.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

If you make low drops in dosage, like only 5-10%, then you will barely notice them. Then stabilize at this new dosage for awhile, as long as you feel you need (several days to a week is usually more than enough) and then make another 5-10% drop, stabilize, drop, stabilize, drop etc. until you've gotten the dosage as low as you want.

Edit: it helps to first stabilize on a regular dosing schedule before tapering so that you are taking roughly the same amount everyday. Then begin taper.

 

[Jack123456]

I'd start with a few days of your current dose but dosing only one time (as you seem to vary quite a bit), then drop to 6.5g for a few days, since that still seems to be comfortable/effective for you. Then taper from there as quick as you want, with a few days between going down to the next lower dose.

 

[Mycophile]

You need to experiment and determine for yourself, it is dependent on strain, dosage, frequency of use, and body chemistry. You seem to have same effects I did, extreme lethargy. Start slowly reducing consumption, if you are taking 25 grams a day for example, make the next day 24 grams and observe your body’s reaction.

Dosing only 1 gram less in a day, or even 5 grams less in a day, considering that we are talking about 2 doses, would not produce anything noticeable in me, and I can handle way more than that.

With a good dose for me with my tolerance being about 12 grams, 2 weeks ago I experimented once with what my lowest dose I thought I could take to prevent withdrawal would be, and on 6.5 grams, about half my dose, I had no WD and even a mild buzz, so I know I can do that probably once a day and start there, maybe even a little less.

 

[Mycophile]

I'd start with a few days of your current dose but dosing only one time (as you seem to vary quite a bit), then drop to 6.5g for a few days, since that still seems to be comfortable/effective for you. Then taper from there as quick as you want, with a few days between going down to the next lower dose.

I think I can probably start with 6.5 grams only once a day right now as I can usually got close to, if not 24 hours between doses, and the other week I was able to go 24 hours on only 1 6.5 gram dose, so I think I'll start there and if it gets really bad after that I could take a second small dose but hopefully I won't need to. It's how slowly i should go after that that is the question.

If it were you, and lets say, I go 3-4 days in a row taking only 1--6.5 gram dose a day and feel ok, how much would you go down, and how long would you stay at that dose before going down?

And how long overall do you think it will take me in my situation of my dependency not being as extreme as some others, but with a high tolerance, to get to zero dependence?

 

[Mycophile]

If you make low drops in dosage, like only 5-10%, then you will barely notice them. Then stabilize at this new dosage for awhile, as long as you feel you need (several days to a week is usually more than enough) and then make another 5-10% drop, stabilize, drop, stabilize, drop etc. until you've gotten the dosage as low as you want.

Edit: it helps to first stabilize on a regular dosing schedule before tapering so that you are taking roughly the same amount everyday. Then begin taper.

Ok, so, the other week there was one day I did an experiment to see how little I could take, and while I only did it once so I can't be sure I can do it daily, I took only 1--6.5 gram dose, and went about 24 hours almost before dosing again and was ok, so I think I will try to start there and see if it works, and if not then take a bit more.

But assuming that dose works as a starting dose at about half my current dose, how long would you stabilize at that dose before starting to drop?

Then after dropping, how much would you drop by, and how long would you stabilize at that dose before dropping again for the least noticeable WD?

As one poster noted, my dependency is not as extreme as some with me being able to go 24 hours between doses, so I want the fewest WD symptoms possible, but I may be able to go a bit faster.

I mean, you said 5--10 percent, so I broke out the online percentage calculator, and 5 percent of 6.50 is 0.32 and 10 percent is 0.65, so I guess for 32 percent of 6.50 I'd be going down to about 6.18 and for 10 percent about 5.85, and then how long would you stabilize at each dose before dropping?

That definitely sounds like it would produce very very little discomfort if done at the right pace, which is what I'd like.

It would be nice to be become a master taperer after all these years of using but always quitting cold turkey for fear of withdrawals, since it's not like I'm stopping permanently and getting good at it would give me some confidence for the future.

 

[Mycophile]

I find kratom withdrawal isn't like real opiate withdrawal in a way, because if I taper down I don't feel much of a change within my body. If I taper off oxy though for example, I'd feel horrible. The longer and slower you can taper off is obviously the better way to adjust to the differences.

If you want to get off it more quickly, you can use it only for waking up and sleeping and feeling a bit awful in between. You're asking alot of questions about it, but there's no way to fully avoid the toll. You're going to feel pretty bad at some points no matter what approach. So the longer you taper off will help that aspect greatly. But there's no way to come off it unless you get on subs without feeling discomfort at certain points. However, listening to what your body is telling you is more important than the time period you withdraw by in my opinion. There's just so many factors involved.

Sorry if any of that came off as harsh.

Thanks. No you didn't come off as harsh. My intention is only to use it for waking up. I totally cannot use it for sleeping as having almost any in my system gives me insomnia and my worst WD symptom is hypersomnia and over sleeping.

It's weird to me that so many people get insomnia as a WD symptom and I get non-stop sleeping as a WD symptom and I've been wondering if my dependence ever got worse would it suddenly turn into insomnia?

It's hard for me to imagine my number one worst WD symptom, in fact, often the ONLY WD symptom I get, ever turning into it's complete opposite, and I don't ever want to become one of these people who is so dependent they need it like every 4 hours as soon as it wears off and I doubt I ever will be, but for the sake of argument, what would happen to someone like me if that happened and I went into WD every 4 hours, but then the WD consists of me getting SUPER tired and wanting to go to sleep for 12 hours if I don't redose?

Seems hard to imagine that if I didn't redose that I'd wake up during my half-a-day sleepathon wanting to redose cause I'm in withdrawal when the WD just makes me want to sleep...

Perhaps I actually have a better response to Kratom in that regard as if I never did wake up to take more then at least every time I'm asleep I'm guaranteed not to dose.

Or perhaps in the worst case scenario I'd somehow develop a response where I'd become equally tired as I do now but still be unable to sleep unless I did dose, which could be completely sucky, but I have a hard time imagining that since literally if it hasn't been like 4-6 hours or more since my last dose wore off and I try to sleep I CANNOT dose off.

Who knows. People respond weirdly to Kratom.

But I think I'll go down to the lowest dose I can and slowly taper like 5 to 10 percent every few days from there I guess. I think the really hard part will be not giving in to taking my feel dose to get high, so that's where the biggest challenge will probably be.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

No, it's not weird. I was over my ex's place and assumed I'd be totally fine without kratom after I didn't bring as much and therefor ran out. Slept 15 hours a day, but no depression on the bright side? Most people either a) sleep all day or b) zombie out from lack of sleep all day. Either or. Genetics affect this maybe, no idea..

The first time I withdrew from it cold turkey I didn't experience any restless leg syndrome. It was amazing. The second time, went 24 hours without it and felt completely normal. Then I was trying to sleep and suddenly my arms and legs were shooting about and I couldn't get a single second of rest that night. Bought a bag at 7 am in the morning to finally sleep. I have NO IDEA how to deal with the restless leg syndrome. It's a cunt from hell and I wouldn't wish that part upon people I really dislike.

Just a warning. The hard part is not the withdrawal (even though it kinda makes you want to kill yourself or everyone around you), but rather not buying a new bag after you're totally off it. Like alcohol, it's legal and readily available for anyone in most states. And 1000% you will think about it and contemplate feeling it again. Kratom is actually not as pleasurable as real opiates or other substances, but because it's so easy to gain access to in a way this makes the addiction vastly harder to escape from. When it comes to opiate withdrawal, each time you relapse it's a good idea to try to get as much time in between the relapses as you can. Then mentally you adjust to life without it at least, and it gets a bit easier when the mental aspect of being alive has two modes as opposed to just one (using). Let me know how it goes. If you can't beat the addiction, don't feel bad because I've only been able to cut my dose in half. The restless leg part kills me every time man.

 

[Jack123456]

I think I can probably start with 6.5 grams only once a day right now as I can usually got close to, if not 24 hours between doses, and the other week I was able to go 24 hours on only 1 6.5 gram dose, so I think I'll start there and if it gets really bad after that I could take a second small dose but hopefully I won't need to. It's how slowly i should go after that that is the question.

If it were you, and lets say, I go 3-4 days in a row taking only 1--6.5 gram dose a day and feel ok, how much would you go down, and how long would you stay at that dose before going down?

And how long overall do you think it will take me in my situation of my dependency not being as extreme as some others, but with a high tolerance, to get to zero dependence?

Dunno, it really depends on how quick you want to give it up.
I personally haven't stopped completely but have gone down significantly over time. Did two big jumps with no real WD symptoms at all, one from approx. 25-30g/day to 15-20g/day, and then from the latter to 9g. From there I've slowly reduced to 5.4g which is my current daily amount (in three doses over the evening). I've gone down between 0.5-0.7g every 5-7 days and didn't feel uncomfortable (at least not primarily from Kratom WD). But I'm taking three doses, so only took 0,2-0,3 from a single dose.

 

[Mycophile]

No, it's not weird. I was over my ex's place and assumed I'd be totally fine without kratom after I didn't bring as much and therefor ran out. Slept 15 hours a day, but no depression on the bright side? Most people either a) sleep all day or b) zombie out from lack of sleep all day. Either or. Genetics affect this maybe, no idea..

The first time I withdrew from it cold turkey I didn't experience any restless leg syndrome. It was amazing. The second time, went 24 hours without it and felt completely normal. Then I was trying to sleep and suddenly my arms and legs were shooting about and I couldn't get a single second of rest that night. Bought a bag at 7 am in the morning to finally sleep. I have NO IDEA how to deal with the restless leg syndrome. It's a cunt from hell and I wouldn't wish that part upon people I really dislike.

Just a warning. The hard part is not the withdrawal (even though it kinda makes you want to kill yourself or everyone around you), but rather not buying a new bag after you're totally off it. Like alcohol, it's legal and readily available for anyone in most states. And 1000% you will think about it and contemplate feeling it again. Kratom is actually not as pleasurable as real opiates or other substances, but because it's so easy to gain access to in a way this makes the addiction vastly harder to escape from. When it comes to opiate withdrawal, each time you relapse it's a good idea to try to get as much time in between the relapses as you can. Then mentally you adjust to life without it at least, and it gets a bit easier when the mental aspect of being alive has two modes as opposed to just one (using). Let me know how it goes. If you can't beat the addiction, don't feel bad because I've only been able to cut my dose in half. The restless leg part kills me every time man.

Yeah, I seem to be somewhat atypical in my response. I have never gotten anything but the absolute mildest RLS, or more like RAS, where I will be about to fall asleep and my shoulder will just very slightly jerk a little and wake me up, but it's nothing more than a minor annoyance and has not happened to me for a year and doesn't usually happen when I'm in WD, let alone has it ever been painful, but now I am wondering if perhaps the fact that I take Klonopin is why I don't get RLS cause I am pretty sure that's one use for it, and perhaps that's even why I can sleep in Kratom WD, in fact, even oversleep, because my Klonopin also causes me to oversleep and wake up a bit groggy, but NOTHING compared to what Kratom does.

Well, thing is dude, my plan is NOT to completely quit Kratom forever. I don't have an actual full on plan yet, other than to break the dependence, and then see what I do next. I have broken the dependence many many times, even while being in possession of it like I am now, it's just that I have never tapered before and always done it cold turkey. I just don't like to be dependent on it cause I know that once you are dependent wd symptoms get worse and wd can last longer, so my only intention is to go long enough so that I'm no longer needing it and won't go into wd without it.

I have a few kilos now and don't plan on throwing them out, but again, I've resisted in the past.

I also disagree that Kratom is not as pleasurable as opiates or other substances. I mean me personally, I have never used many other opiates and never plan on getting into them as they are just too addictive, and I know FOR A FACT I'll never touch Heroin, but I've done Oxycodone and Hydrocodone, and to be honest overall I prefer Kratom.

I mean sure, if you told me I had 4 hours to be on either Oxy/Hydro or Kratom, and do nothing, and not have to worry about after effects and just lie in bed and listen to music like I usually do when on oxy or hydro, then I'd probably choose oxy or hydro in terms of pure euphoria, but what I don't like about them is that I find I can't really be productive on them and do stuff like work, work out, go shopping and do normal shit, etc, because they are too sedating, whereas I do all sorts of stuff on Kratom and find it makes me productive when on it, and I like that it's more stimulating than oxy or hydro, and in comparison to weed, alcohol or phenibut I prefer Kratom over all of them.

I would honestly say that Kratom is my 2nd favorite drug behind only shrooms.

Anyways, who knows what I'll do when I am no longer dependent.

I just started working with a really cool drug counselor who's a former addict and not arrogant like the rest, and he's helping me and we both think I need to have a good long period of COMPLETE sobriety from all drugs (really the 3 drugs I do a lot are Kratom, Dexadrine and alcohol, and only occassionally Phenibut), like at least a month, so I can see what I want to do and view my situation from a sober standpoint.

I am very interested in maybe trying Ultra Low dose Naltrexone once I am no longer dependent on Kratom cause then if you just take it at night you literally CANNOT take Kratom as it will block it, and if you try to drink you'll get REALLY sick, so that would take care of 2 out of 3 of my drug problems other than the dex which I really only like when mixing it with Kratom so I think that would then become a non-issue.

I have also heard that ULDN can sometimes be mood lifting and help as an antidepressant, unlike high dose naltrexone, and I have depression so that would be nice, but then I know you can skip it if you want to drink, and maybe even if i want to take Kratom, but I think then if you do take any kind of opioid you have to wait at least 7-10 days to take Naltrexone again, so if I really got myself to take it then I would most likely be able to commit myself to at least a month straight and then that takes care of the willpower issue with resisting the kratom or booze, cause so long as you swallow the pill then it stops you, and I like that idea, but I have no intention of quitting Kratom for the rest of my life, so I'll have to decide later what I want to do exactly and how long I want to stop for.

 

[Mycophile]

Dunno, it really depends on how quick you want to give it up.
I personally haven't stopped completely but have gone down significantly over time. Did two big jumps with no real WD symptoms at all, one from approx. 25-30g/day to 15-20g/day, and then from the latter to 9g. From there I've slowly reduced to 5.4g which is my current daily amount (in three doses over the evening). I've gone down between 0.5-0.7g every 5-7 days and didn't feel uncomfortable (at least not primarily from Kratom WD). But I'm taking three doses, so only took 0,2-0,3 from a single dose.

Ok, so you went down 0.5 to 0.7 every 5-7 days and were taking about 0.2--0.3 less per every few days?

That seems even slower than what MDPV psychosis said I think, which was to go down 5-10 percent every few days, but he never specified how long he would stay at each dose.

You and he seem to be the only ones giving me actually numbers so I am trying to get more of them.

If anyone else can please tell me how long you would stay at those numbers before you dropped down again I'd appreciate it, cause I don't feel people are really giving me as much detail as I would like.

 

[Mycophile]

If you make low drops in dosage, like only 5-10%, then you will barely notice them. Then stabilize at this new dosage for awhile, as long as you feel you need (several days to a week is usually more than enough) and then make another 5-10% drop, stabilize, drop, stabilize, drop etc. until you've gotten the dosage as low as you want.

Edit: it helps to first stabilize on a regular dosing schedule before tapering so that you are taking roughly the same amount everyday. Then begin taper.

Hi, I don't mean to be annoying, but could you please respond to this last post of mine?

I know you said you'd go down 5-10 percent every few days and stabilize at those doses for a bit and also stabilize first for a few days at a steady but somewhat lower dose, but you didn't specify how long you personally would stay at those doses.

I am able to now go 24 hours without dosing before I go into WD and have only been truly dependent for about 4-6 weeks, so I might be able to go a bit faster.

What if say, I stabilized at 6.5 grams which I said was the lowest dose I tested I was able to use to stave off WD and stayed there for like 4 days, then went down 10 percent every 2 days? 10 percent of 6.5 would be 0.65 obviously, so that seems like it would take me about a month, or do you think that would be too fast?

Here was my last post from before if you could please respond;

Ok, so, the other week there was one day I did an experiment to see how little I could take, and while I only did it once so I can't be sure I can do it daily, I took only 1--6.5 gram dose, and went about 24 hours almost before dosing again and was ok, so I think I will try to start there and see if it works, and if not then take a bit more.

But assuming that dose works as a starting dose at about half my current dose, how long would you stabilize at that dose before starting to drop?

Then after dropping, how much would you drop by, and how long would you stabilize at that dose before dropping again for the least noticeable WD?

As one poster noted, my dependency is not as extreme as some with me being able to go 24 hours between doses, so I want the fewest WD symptoms possible, but I may be able to go a bit faster.

I mean, you said 5--10 percent, so I broke out the online percentage calculator, and 5 percent of 6.50 is 0.32 and 10 percent is 0.65, so I guess for 32 percent of 6.50 I'd be going down to about 6.18 and for 10 percent about 5.85, and then how long would you stabilize at each dose before dropping?

That definitely sounds like it would produce very very little discomfort if done at the right pace, which is what I'd like.

It would be nice to be become a master taperer after all these years of using but always quitting cold turkey for fear of withdrawals, since it's not like I'm stopping permanently and getting good at it would give me some confidence for the future.

 

[Mycophile]

Also, I will have 4 days in a row off work in a few weeks, and since in the past I have always quit cold turkey by just not taking any for 3-5 days and slept a whole lot, I am thinking that maybe I'd just taper till then and then skip it all together for those 4 days and see if I can get over it completely, and if not then at least use a smaller dose after that.

However, I'll be more dependent this time than in the past so it will probably be worse, but I think I'd still try to do it and most likely succeed as I have before.

Does that seem crazy to you guys to do with my current usage, like it would just be too much ?

 

[Jack123456]

Ok, so you went down 0.5 to 0.7 every 5-7 days and were taking about 0.2--0.3 less per every few ...

No, might have writtwn this unclear. I went down .5-.7 every 5-7 days. That was from around 8-9g, so somewhere 10 per cent. What I meant was that I was dosing three times a night, so let's say I was at 8g, I'd do 2.5+2.5+3 before, and then took of only a few hundert miligrams of each dose, so something like 2.3+2.3+2.7.
But the numbers are really not that important, you have to find your own comfortable taper schedule if you want to taper slow, or just take off a bigger chunk if you want it faster.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Hi, I don't mean to be annoying, but could you please respond to this last post of mine?

I know you said you'd go down 5-10 percent every few days and stabilize at those doses for a bit and also stabilize first for a few days at a steady but somewhat lower dose, but you didn't specify how long you personally would stay at those doses.

I am able to now go 24 hours without dosing before I go into WD and have only been truly dependent for about 4-6 weeks, so I might be able to go a bit faster.

What if say, I stabilized at 6.5 grams which I said was the lowest dose I tested I was able to use to stave off WD and stayed there for like 4 days, then went down 10 percent every 2 days? 10 percent of 6.5 would be 0.65 obviously, so that seems like it would take me about a month, or do you think that would be too fast?

Here was my last post from before if you could please respond;

Ok, so, the other week there was one day I did an experiment to see how little I could take, and while I only did it once so I can't be sure I can do it daily, I took only 1--6.5 gram dose, and went about 24 hours almost before dosing again and was ok, so I think I will try to start there and see if it works, and if not then take a bit more.

But assuming that dose works as a starting dose at about half my current dose, how long would you stabilize at that dose before starting to drop?

Then after dropping, how much would you drop by, and how long would you stabilize at that dose before dropping again for the least noticeable WD?

As one poster noted, my dependency is not as extreme as some with me being able to go 24 hours between doses, so I want the fewest WD symptoms possible, but I may be able to go a bit faster.

I mean, you said 5--10 percent, so I broke out the online percentage calculator, and 5 percent of 6.50 is 0.32 and 10 percent is 0.65, so I guess for 32 percent of 6.50 I'd be going down to about 6.18 and for 10 percent about 5.85, and then how long would you stabilize at each dose before dropping?

That definitely sounds like it would produce very very little discomfort if done at the right pace, which is what I'd like.

It would be nice to be become a master taperer after all these years of using but always quitting cold turkey for fear of withdrawals, since it's not like I'm stopping permanently and getting good at it would give me some confidence for the future.

It is a trial and error process for me, I just stabilize at each new dose for as long as I feel I need. I try not to attempt another drop until I feel completely readjusted to the new dosage. Usually, for me, this is somewhere around 3-5 days and then I would feel ready to drop again. If I'm not in a hurry then I might stabilize at each new dosage for as long as a week, two weeks or even more. It just depends on how I feel and whether or not I'm in a hurry.

 

[Mycophile]

It is a trial and error process for me, I just stabilize at each new dose for as long as I feel I need. I try not to attempt another drop until I feel completely readjusted to the new dosage. Usually, for me, this is somewhere around 3-5 days and then I would feel ready to drop again. If I'm not in a hurry then I might stabilize at each new dosage for as long as a week, two weeks or even more. It just depends on how I feel and whether or not I'm in a hurry.

Ok, so I guess you are really saying that I just have to experiment and see what feels right and go down to whatever I feel I can whenever I feel ready right?

But that in general, you would usually go down anywhere from 5-10 percent approximately every 3-5 days.

So I guess really, in your opinion, there's not necessarily any WRONG way to do it right?

That those are your ballpark numbers, and you would surely say that you'd be going down too fast to drop a gram a day or whatever, but I mean, do you think it's possible that maybe I might feel comfortable dropping 0.5 a gram every 2 days?

Like, maybe I might start at 6.5 on a Monday, then drop to 6.0 on Wednesday, then drop to 5.5 on Friday, do you think there's any way that a person who is dependent might be able to handle it that fast, or would you say that's just way too fast?

And when you said you like to stabilize at a dose BEFORE starting, did you mean essentially, that you would first find a dose you can handle without getting withdrawals that is LOWER THAN YOUR NORMAL SWEET SPOT TO START AT?

I'm assuming that's what you meant, like how my sweet spot is about 12 grams but 2 weeks ago I found that I was able to feel ok on a 6.5 gram dose, so maybe that would be a good starting dose to stabilize at for about say, 5 days or so right?

And also like I said, in the past I usually quit cold turkey when I have a few days off, and in a few weeks I'll have 4 days off, but I know my dependency is worse than in the past, but do you think I'd be crazy at that point to attempt to see if i can just take none for those 4 days if I want to try it?

Cause I won't have any time off till then, but in general when I am dependent on Kratom and have nothing to do for a few days then I just bite the bullet and do my best not to dose at all for those few days if possible.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Correct, there is no wrong way necessarily just what works for one might not work for another. Like you said, 0.5 to a gram every 2 days may work well for you. If not then you can make adjustments as you go.

Yes, ideally you want to first stabilize on a dose that is lower than your usual dose but still large enough that you aren't uncomfortable due to withdrawals. It sounds to me like 6.5g is probably a good starting point for you.

 

[Mycophile]

Correct, there is no wrong way necessarily just what works for one might not work for another. Like you said, 0.5 to a gram every 2 days may work well for you. If not then you can make adjustments as you go.

Yes, ideally you want to first stabilize on a dose that is lower than your usual dose but still large enough that you aren't uncomfortable due to withdrawals. It sounds to me like 6.5g is probably a good starting point for you.

Thanks.

So if you had to guess, at the kind of rate we are talking about, how long do you think the entire taper would take to have no withdrawals at all?

And also, I will have off 4 days of work in a week, and in the past I have always just gone cold turkey for 3-5 days to get off it, so is there anything wrong with doing that again?

I mean, maybe my dependency might be worse than in the past, but if I can hack it for those 4 days without then that's a good thing right? I don't necessarily have to stick to a slow taper if I find I can push myself to get over it more quickly I'm thinking.