--> To those who experience anxiety on shrooms...If you take shrooms along with 70mg of pure thh or tetrahydroharmine, not only does it eliminate anxiety, add crystal clear clarity, increased euphoria, but the shroom trip is extended by an hour +, done it countless times myself, absolutely incredible gorgeous experience. Thh is a psychedelic sri not maoi found in cappi. Damn near perfect psychedelic combo....other than that mescaline is all ready the perfect psychedelic, drank cactus tea over 150 times over many years. I love that it lasts incredibly long allready.
Sabnock said:
Bardy said:
From Interprise chemical:
Keep in mind, the lower the nM, the higher or stronger the activity. Reading those numbers, you would have to take 30 times the normal dosage of 100mg THH, or 30 x 100 = 3,000mg THH just to equal rima activity of 100mg of harmaline, and it takes at least 100mg of harmaline to activate DMT. That much THH would be an overdose and most likely kill a person. My max is 300mg of THH.
It takes around 150mg of harmine to activate DMT, that would require 5500 mg of THH to do the same.
--> If you remember 69ron, I was not around when he used to post, as I was at the mescaline king forum thenook.org for at least a decade (now extinct) he claimed that THH alone would activate DMT, this is completely un-true, this earned him or her a very bad reputation as people found out after his writing of this, that no such thing was possible.
Bardy said:
There is absolutely no significant amount of THH in rue seeds, period...but you can make THH from harmaline in 1.5 hour. Even as a chemist, I spent months trying to make THH from harmaline without using exotic chemicals like TIHKAL, after months of failure, I went into a trance and was given a vision of how to complete the process I was stuck at using an over the counter chemical and explain how to make it simply in link below, I wanted humanity to know how to do this, as I feel it is extremely important.
Hallucinogenic Plants in the Mediterranean Countries, Ioannis D. Passos, Maria Mironidou-Tzouveleki, in Neuropathology of Drug Addictions and Substance Misuse, 2016:
Older Caapi is becoming close to extinct as harvesters have to go further and deeper into the Jungle...hence the over hundred spiritual centers in South America are having to harvest younger cappi with much less tetrahydroharmine, here in link below is an alternative to help conserve while it grows over many years:
Traditional true Ayahuasca has always been (1) Caapi by itself or (2) Caapi with psychotria viridis or Diplopterys cabrerana.
12 reasons THH rocks and how to make her here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28423951/fpart/all
Nillion, I'm not a vendor nor ever been, you might be thinking of 69ron, I am not 69ron. Lifelong chemist and researcher. Anyways, I cracked the code on how to make THH at home in only 1.5 hour, no exotic chemicals needed like in TIHKAL, more on this below.
Bardy said:
Be careful if you buy THH from china (liftmode) as there have been reports of it not staining blue under UV (like real THH) but green, indicating harmaline is still in it. Dab a cue tip in vinegar, then take up a bit of your THH, smear on a paper plate, hold under uv light, if it glows blue you got pure thh, if any yellow or green it's contaminated with harmaline.
Freedom said:
THH or tetrahydroharmine is the best kept secret in the psychedlic world:
THH and how to make her (along with many trip reports of 300mg THH by itself):
www.shroomery.org
More of my research (10 topics), on the cutting edge, and why dmt should always be taken with thh as found in true Ayahuasca:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/
2 minute formed HPBCD DMT liquid very bioavailable sublingually under tongue & outperforms DMT salts orally by many factors in personal trials, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca.
Part 0: 12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks (this post #1 in middle)
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration, over 44 sublingual DMT experiences over a year's time (this post #1 at bottom). Many times stronger than oral DMT. Updated 1-1-2022.
Part 2: Receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
--> Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: Chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal, absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection.
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
part 10: One way to make pure tetrahydroharmine
part 11: From the archives of DMT world: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask
part 12: Out of print writings on the Divine Plant of the Incas, coca leaf visions...and writings on strong euphoria from coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, forming orally active cocaethylene in the liver, discovered in 1994. Explains the popularity of Vin Mariani (coca leaf soaked wine) with both popes, Thomas Edison and countless celebrities.
part 13: THH + mushrooms report from JKW.
part 14: Multiple encounters with death & depression.
Northerner said:
www.shroomery.org
Since harmine has a half life of from 1 to 3 hours, I redose at the 1.5 hour to 2 hour point using only 75mg harmine + 90mg dmt in a single capsule again for a +4 moderately strong experience, as 1/2 the harmine dose is still active from the first dose. You don't have to add anymore THH since THH has a half life of 10.5 hours, peaking at around 5 hours. You can re dose as many times as you want, continues to work strongly.
This gives me a total 4 hour strong trip that is easy to handle, with hours of afterglow. Going beyond 120mg DMT is not recommended, see my trip reports on page 2. I recommend crushing the dmt freebase into fresh aloe vera gel from fresh leaf (*almart carries fresh leaf in grocery section or buy on line, store excess gel in freezer as it only lasts 1 week in fridge, defrost more when needed) only as the polysaccharides in the fresh leaf increase the penetration of the dmt into the intestines by many factors, for an experience that can easily reach +4 to +5 and is all encompassing and super colorful just like real Jungle Ayahuasca, I've noticed no difference in strength between these zero nausea Ayahuasca capsules and real Ayahuasca brew I've prepared from caapi and Hawaiian psychotria.
THH + mushrooms report from JKW:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
See page 3 of thread for an easy outdoor grow in garden containers with a bottom 3" layer of wet perlite.
Moonyham said:
Hi moonyham, this is with the pan cyan grass/dung lovers strain, long considered the crown jewel of mushrooms, slightly harder than cubensis to grow, and the trips are way more visual, very euphoric, very intricate fractal and geometric visuals like acid with saturated tropical colors. Several of my indoor containers contaminated as I did not use mycobags to grow out the substrate...I followed a tek where they were not used, now I know better next time to use them.
50 trip reports in this thread.
Modern research has determined that the pan cyan strain of mushrooms with their HIGH NORPSILOCIN and BAEOCYSTIN and related analogues content hit the adrenal receptors with as much force as MESCALINE or DMT, see chart below. Notice how just plain psilocin alone hits the 3 adrenal receptors (responsible for enhanced colors, euphoria, beauty and music enhancement) with lighter activity.
Attached: Structure–Activity Relationships for Psilocybin, Baeocystin, Aeruginascin, and Related Analogues to Produce Pharmacological Effects in Mice, ACS Pharmacol. Transl. Sci. 2022, 5, 11, 1181–1196:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsptsci.2c00177
by Grant C. Glatfelter*, Eline Pottie, John S. Partilla, Alexander M. Sherwood, Kristi Kaylo, Duyen N. K. Pham, Marilyn Naeem, Grant C. Glatfelter*, Eline Pottie, John S. Partilla, Alexander M. Sherwood, Kristi Kaylo, Duyen N. K. Pham, Marilyn Naeem, Vamshikrishna Reddy Sammeta Vamshikrishna Reddy Sammeta, Stacie DeBoer, James A. Golen, Elliott B. Hulley, Christophe P. Stove, Andrew R. Chadeayne, David R. Manke, and Michael H. Baumann.
Pan cyan vs P. cubensis
"They [Pan cyans] are so much cleaner! The trip is shorter but more intense. The visuals are just incredible. You feel very light compared to cubensis and the headspace is more manageable (at least at lower doses).
"Most intense, euphoric, neon colorful trip that introduced me to pan cyan, most unlike any cubes I have ever had. Way preferred these over cubes. So deeply euphoric and extremely visual with saturated tropical neon colors. From then on I was hooked."
"I didn't really expect how good the differences were from Cube to [Pan cyan] estero. The visuals weren't comparable at all and the euphoria was so wonderful. My 2g trip was literally the best substance experience of my life next to marriage and kids. 10 hours of pure bliss."
"I strongly agree with starting with one-half gram dry. It was a much better experience than any cubes I've tried even at higher doses."
"Cubes gave me mild nausea and made me feel 'shakey'. Not at all so with Pan cyans."
"Less cartoony than cubes. More crisp neon geometric patterns. The trip also feels less tiring."
"Copelandia [Panaeolus] cyanescens are far stronger than cubes and have a distinctly different feel."
"I've eaten pan cyans around the 1g dose - to me it was like 3g of cubies in strength with a different quality to it."
"IMO they [Pan cyans] are a lot better than cubes. No body noise and very intense and clear. More like LSD just a lot shorter. I don't cultivate many actives on a regular basis anymore, but out off all I have experienced to date, these are my favorite."
"Pan Cyan (and Trops) are very much worth the effort!!! I have never eaten any Cubes that were as VISUAL as these are. Not to mention a little goes a LONG ways. Gram and a half of these little fellers will blister your brain!"
"In my humble opinion, I think 1 gram of wet Panaeolus is even better than 1 gram of dry Cubensis, making them 10X more potent [?!?], in addition to the more positive and smooth experience, easier consumption due to amount and taste, and much less nausea."
"My first experience [with Pan cyans] was wonderful! I definitely noticed a big difference in potency and the mood of the trip. I still remember how clean, visual and surreal everything felt. I felt absolutely no body noise or anxiety. They felt very natural to experience, nothing felt wrong if that makes sense."
"Ok, so it's given that [Pan cyan] it's much stronger than cubensis. But I've noticed that there is a difference in the high. Why is that?"
"There's something about Pan Cyan that induces something special that no cube could ever bring, it isn't that it's a clean feeling either - it's something that must deal with happiness in general - so whether it stimulates serotonin production or a mixture of neurochemicals for the best experience, I have had consistently positive experiences with each trip both physiologically and psychologically. I wonder if it has to do with other alkaloids or absence of alkaloids vs cubensis."
"It is my personal view that Hawaiian Copelandia [Panaeolus] cyanescens offers the entheogen user a more enjoyable experience than the more easily cultivated Psilocybe cubensis. In fact I would place it in the premier cru of psychedelic plants, alongside the indigenous Liberty Cap (Psilocybe semilanceata) and the various DMT containing plants."
General comments
"They are the cleanest, smoothest, most peaceful mushroom vibe of all the species I have tried. Panaeolus cyanescens and tropicalis rank #1 in my book."
"They are far and above the cleanest clearest and most potent mushrooms I have ever encountered, tread lightly with these guys."
"SWIM has only consumed the Copelandia cyans (Hawaiian), and reputes them to be the best mushroom experience by far. Very clean trip, zero body load, clear head space."
"The highs real clean. It reminds me of the Felix the cat acid from the 80s. Just smooth. With little body noise and extreme visuals. A calm lucidity that is like a slice of heaven."
"First experience last night with Estero pan cyan. Truly mystical, amazing, and the most beautiful and gentle psychedelic experience to date. Truly a gift."
"I also noticed that cyans have a very smooth comedown and longer duration. What could be the reason for this?"
"Pans are no joke. Anyone who says LSD is more powerful than mushrooms has never done pans."
--------------------------------------------
Other topics: Alchemy chemistry fun:
Compilation of pan cyan or panaeolus cyanescens or copeandia cyanescens trip reports, crown jewel of mushrooms:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28108398/page/1
How to extract 2.4g dmt from 170g bark using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat and break resistant), post #15:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/
Tetrahydroharmine or THH and how to make her, Caapi visionary feminine teaching spirit:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28423951/page/1
Zero nausea HPBCD or aloe vera enhanced penetration Ayahuasca capsules:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371/page/1
Cactus tea before waterpark to beat the heat:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28411312/page/4
How to make LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide (Greek Eleusis ancient LSD) at home from morning glory seeds (the priests used non poisonous claviceps paspali which grows on paspalum grass adjacent to Eleusis present day in the famous Rarian plane, same alkaloid profile as the sacred Mesoamerican morning glory):
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/page/2
Make your own 1-acetaldehyde LSD at home from LSD, very similar to ALD-52 or the real orange sunshine:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28441105
LSD high dose trip: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28451382
On my very first pan cyan mushroom trip, where I went to a house music club tripping with friends, I viewed laser light patterns on the floor of the club, where the women danced, I believe the mushrooms showed me how to form never before seen patterns, as went I went home, over the next several months, I built my own 6 channel audio generator that when these combined frequencies (3 on x channel and 3 on y channel) were sent to a laser x and y galvanometer, were able to produce brand new laser patterns such as collapsing circles and spinning lines 360 degrees which looked beyond belief in the fog as 3-d, I then went on to market these laser scanners to clubs on the strip, and they were a huge success...I owe this creative invention to the mushrooms which sparked new creative energies, way beyond thought, from a higher source where the mushrooms tap into. My love for house music stems back to those days of visiting many clubs as an entertainment laser lighting fixture creator and programmer and making friends with the many DJ's. Over the summer myself and friends were lifeguards at the local water park. But on the weekends we went to parties or house music clubs.
https://www.friskyradio.com/
https://jaytechmusic.podbean.com/
myself:
-------
Very first pan cyan experience: 3 of us ate dried pan cyans on the way to a nightclub playing undergound house music. The road to the club turned into a rollercoaster of neon colors made of purple, yellow, green, super saturated, waving up and down in intense neon colors, just incredible. I looked at my left arm and it was covered in green Egyptian hieroglyphics, so wild!
I looked off to the side into the sky and saw 3 alein hyperdimensional beings, small in stature looking back at me, made of purple and yellow colors...we stopped to peak inside the store with crystals inside along the way, all of the crystals in the shop had alien heads in them with open mouths and penetrating eyes, staring back at us, we saw aliens in all of the crystals!
When we got to the nighclub, the woman collecting the $5 to get in, turned into a scary witch, we were all agasp, inside the club, we were some of the first to enter, so not crowded at all, the music sounded so bad ass, the videos playing in the addition rooms grabbed our attention. We each touched the girl's leg who went with us, who was tripping as well, felt like MDMA, the intensity of the touch was incredible. Most intense, euphoric, neon colorful trip that introduced me to pan cyan, most unlike any cubes I have ever had. Way preferred these over cubes. So deeply euphoric and extremely visual with saturated tropical neon colors. From then on I was hooked.
I grow these following Gordotek's simple method further below, when fruiting the spawned trays with the sterile casing layer, I just leave cake pan trays out on a small fold out table with a Kvol hd3 3.5 liter ultrasonic cool mist humidifier pointed at all 3 trays on a timer 1/2 hour on, 1/2 hour off, pointed at all 3 trays on a table close to window in small room that get's warmer than rest of house, fruit just fine in open air. Very simple, nothing elaborate needed. The monsoon is also a great humidifier.
I do use a flow hood however when transferring the grown out mycelium grain jars to the trays when mixing in with the pasteurized manure/straw (spawning stage), AND also later when removing the see thru cake lid covering the white mycelium grown out substrate in the cake pan when applying the sterile 1/4" casing layer. Picture at the very end of trays on table in open air for fruiting. They like a constant 77 degrees F from beginning to end, ie grain jar stage to fruiting stage.
Prefer keeping the 3 grain jars and the 3 cake pans during the lid closed "mycelium substrate grow out" and "open lid, open air fruiting stage" on top of a VIVOHOME 10 Inch x 20.75 Inch Waterproof Seedling Heat Mat with included 40-108°F Digital Thermostat Controller. You could also use a greenhouse Martha tent with controllable temp and a monsoon humidifier with stretchable hose that reaches as high as 66" to the top of the inside of the 63" tall tent to direct humidity downwards to all the trays, only have to refill the monsoon every 2 days.
Buy or make a Laminar flow hood, it's the best investment you will ever make.
*** You can take these pan cyan at the same time as taking 150 to 250mg of pure tetrahydroharmine (not an MAOI or RIMA but a psychedelic SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor) and it feels like "organic psilo LSD", powerful combination with super heightened euphoria and visuals and huge powerful music enhancement, stimulating like LSD in combo with the THH, as THH has numerous similarities to mescaline and LSD. I have done this combo numerous times, one of my absolute favorite trip experiences.
I can recommend pan cyans in combo with 150 to 250mg pure tetrahydroharmine, gives an experience that is extremely euphoric, intensely visual and spiritual, a lot like LSD when combined with the THH, one of my absolute favorites of all time.
THH + mushrooms report from JKW:
1) bridgesii 600 gram to 800 gram pieces from around the core tea, 350 to 450mg plus mescaline in the tea = 11 out of 10
2) panaeolus cyanescens mushrooms in combo with 150 to 250mg THH, 6 hour incredible experience = 11 out of 10
3) LSD with bridgesii cactus combo = 11 out of 10
4) oral 200mg harmine + 200mg oral THH + sublingual under the tongue DMT, can re-dose under the tongue dmt every hour up to 3 hours = 11 out of 10
Gordotek's pan cyan grow which I have used sucessfully for a long time:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/new-simple-tek-44645256 (Gordotek)
https://mycotopia.net/topic/110495-...aiians-blue-meanies-pans-and-pan-cyans/page-2 (Gordotek)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27637997 (Panaeolus In Mono Tubs 2.0, Baba Yaga)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27637997 (Panaeolus In Mono Tubs 2.0, Baba Yaga)
http://en.psilosophy.info/panaeolus_cyanescens_liquid_culture_to_fruits.html (Panaeolus Cyanescens -- Liquid Culture to Fruits)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25987049 (Asura, Cultivating Panaeolus cyanescens)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25925194 (JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens)
https://mycotopia.net/topic/3295-waylits-pan-cyan-tek-plastic-jars/ (Waylit's Pan cyan Tek-- plastic jars)
https://www.shroomery.org/8695/Making-Panaeolus-Substrate-Pictorial (Making Panaeolus Substrate, Pictorial)
How pure THH or tetrahydroharmine adds to the experiences, here are my experiences combining it with sublingual HPBCD DMT. What I do now is take 200mg of harmine and 200mg of pure THH orally, then 1 hour later once I feel the harmine and THH, I take sublingual HPBCD DMT (around 100mg) hold under tongue for 15 minutes, all dissolves, gives a 1.5 hour very strong extremely euphoric and visual experience, then I re-dose more sublingual DMT at the 1.5 hour point again, holding under tongue, continues to work at full strength, as the oral harmine has a half life of from 1 to 3 hours, continues to work for 3 hours to 5 hours.
I way prefer taking DMT under tongue instead of orally, as zero nausea, goes straight to brain, no dizziness, the only way I use it, very bad ass this way. None of the negatives of oral Ayahausca. There is something about DMT moving thru the stomach that makes it nausea prone, dizzy, and weird and strange, this is all avoided by using it under tongue. The harmine lowers MAO in the brain for 3 to 5 hours, so you can use the dmt under tongue with many re-doses, as it prevents the DMT from being zapped by mitochondria in the brain.
https://mycotopia.ne...e-under-tongue/
https://mycotopia.ne...ts-masks-taste/
12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks:
------------------------------------------------------
0. THH is not an MAOI or a RIMA but a psychedelic serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI) found in caapi with many similarities to mescaline. She is a feminine teaching spirit.
1. Part 10 of the first linked paper above: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to dip a cue tip in vinegar to wet, take up a bit of the THH, smear on a paper plate to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted.
--> Please do this UV check even if you source THH from China (liftmode paperwork indicates Chinese made), as there have been a few reports of it glowing green and not pure light blue with the vinegar swabbed UV check, indicating there is still harmaline in the THH, it would not be a good idea to take even light amounts of harmaline with shrooms, you want only pure THH...either make it yourself or source it from a reputable supplier. THH is an SRI and harmaline is a RIMA, completely different substances <--
1. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115:
In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.
2. She is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. She is the 2nd highest alkaloid in Caapi. She has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours.
3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.
4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.
5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, she is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline, few people have used her over 100mg. I have seen the receptorome chart for THH vs. mescaline. She not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors A1-A3 associated with beauty and aesthetic enhancement, just like mescaline. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included, she is diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.
Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.
6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.
7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. Listening to music on THH + DMT is like listening to music on high dose cactus tea: heavenly, infinitely beautiful music enhancement, every voice and instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a song for the very first time.
8. This pure THH at 300mg all by herself is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally.
9. The entry in TIHKAL for 300mg THH is completely wrong, where the unexperienced person compares it to the effects of 100mg harmaline. She is nothing at all like harmaline, and like 69ron once said about the person's comment in TIHKAL, he or she would not be able to tell their ass from their elbow. I agree, what complete nonsense. Dr. Shulgin wrote that he never got the chance to try THH, but wrote that more studies on it are "badly needed."
10. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Espiridion:
11. Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):
The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.
At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of teaching closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper:
12. Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher): Unraveling the Mystery of the Origin of Ayahuasca – Ayahuasca.com
Page 154 of "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi, 2005": https://kodu.ut.ee/~hellex/aya/kirjandus/keemia/Callaway2005.pdf
Callaway wrote in "The Entheogen Review":
THH blocks serotonin, just like all the major natural oral psychedelics, serotonin blocking results in stimulation, breaking down of barriers and filters, direct access to divine spiritual world, increased visionary power, major beauty, color and music enhancement, euphoria in combo with the DMT. DMT does not block serotonin but requires THH in combo to do this, important teamwork.
5-ht1a agonism is inhibitory and results in serotonin blockage (over 80% of brain 5-ht). Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. THH or tetrahydroharmine also inhibits the serotonin reuptake transporter (SERT).
In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].
Dr. Nichols (Purdue Scientist authorized to study LSD, from Heffter.org LSD paper): https://www.heffter....20/04/chap6.pdf
waylitjim (April 2005):
https://mycotopia.ne...nescens-merged/
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Ever wonder why many consider the Panaeolus experience incredibly unique?
"They are the cleanest, smoothest, most peacefull mushroom vibe of all the species I have tried. Panaeolus cyanescens and tropicalis rank #1 in my book."
"the highs real clean . its reminds me of the phelix the cat acid from the 80s . just smooth . with little body noise and extreme visuals . a calm lucidty that is like a slice of heaven"
"Pan Cyan (and Trops) are very much worth the effort!!! I have never eaten any Cubes that were as VISUAL as these are. Not to mention a little goes a LONG ways. Gram and a half of these little fellers will blister your brain!"
Psilocybin and psilocin are part of the tryptamine family. Their chemical structure bears close resemblance to that of serotonin.
All Panaeolus species contain the neurotransmitter serotonin. Cubensis and wood lovers do not contain serotonin. The primary effect of psilocin is on the receptors for serotonin and there is evidence that psilocybin reduces the reuptake of serotonin by neurons in the brain allowing this neurotransmitter more time to act in the synapse.
"The occurrence of tryptamine derivatives in Panaeolus cyanescens, also known as Copelandia cyanescens, from Australia, Hawaii and Thailand were investigated. All 70 collections contained psilocin, serotonin and urea. Those from Hawaii were also relatively rich in psilocybin, whereas the species from Australia and Thailand were virtually exempt of this compound.
It is not unthinkable that the ability to biosynthesize psilocin in a number of Panaeolus is a consequece of a genetic accident: initially, these members of the genus probably produced more or important qualites of serotonin until a mutation conferred the ability to produce 4-hydroxylated tryptamines. So far, not other genus or species has been found to accomplish this feat!"
Partial reference from:
Stijve, T. (1992): Psilocin, psilocybin, serotonin and urea in Panaeolus cyanescens from various origin
waylitjim:
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Even with lower levels of psilocybin, Panaeolus are still more potent than Cubensis. Why? Because by weight psilocin is around 1.4 times more potent than psilocybin.
The primary active ingredients of psilocybe mushrooms are psilocybin and psilocin, and to a lesser extent baeocystin and norbaeocystin. The ratio of psilocybin to psilocin varies from species to species.
The primary difference is that psilocin is unstable and it breaks down in the presence of oxygen. If the mushrooms are dried correctly and kept cold, they should suffer very little psilocin break down. Psilocybin on the other hand has been found in a 115-year old mushroom sample.
It is believed that after injestion, psilocybin is easily converted into psilocin and that the pharmacological properties of both compounds are the same.
Asura:
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Pan cyans are faster than cubes and 3-4x more potent. 2g is a full on DMT-like, level 5 trip, so while your yield is less...your magic content is more...and the trips are insanely good. It's the most potent species anyone has a chance of doing indoors with significant yield.
They are harder to fruit but there are plenty of people killing it right now with low tech setups.
I would love to help out on the science...but I am not tripping right now. I could probably recruit some folks on the official pan thread, though.
The link in my sig details how I cultivate them, but an ideal time line is something like:
1. Agar wedge to LC. 5 days to grow out.
2. LC to substrate = 10 days to grow out
3. substrate to tray = 5 days to recover.
4. Case and fruit = 5 days until first pins.
So, wedge to first pins in 25 days. About 3-5 days to harvest. 2nd-x flushes will also be done in 3-5 days. If someone could figure
out how to get the yield and make it as easy as cubes, I'm pretty sure most people would grow these.
I am averaging about 32g dried for one tray (3 quarts substrate), which doesn't sound like much - but that is 16 full on level 5 trips from that.
If I lemon tek 2g of pans it is overpowering. Like forced VR or something. My eyelids cease to exist and the inside of my head and the outside
of my head are one space. Time loops. Living 1000 life times. Alien landscapes. Vision quests. You name it. It's pretty fucking intense and scary
to be honest...I don't do it that often :lol:
A 1g dose is heavenly, though, and much more manageable. Tea makes it easier. Lemon tek is like taking a strong cube trip and compressing it. The
trip moves really, really fast. It's speeded up. The come up is very disorienting. Like not only are you are tripping hard, you're also in a barrel
going over Niagara Falls.
Gordotek:
---------
3 DIC 2020 A LAS 21:26
New simple method (TEK) for growing Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens, Hawaiians, blue meanies, Pans and Pan cyans):
https://www.patreon....k-44645256?l=es
Questions:
Q: Is there a preferred or recommended strain to use?
A: I do believe strain selection is important, that said I know people have already used my TEK with many different strains and had success so it is not really critical. The "Estero" strain was the best strain that I tested, it is extremely vigorous, potent, and even forms more robust/meaty fruit bodies. There was some doubt at one point that the strain was even pan cyan, some thought it might be pan cambo because it was almost too easy to grow. However thin layer chromatography clearly shows it is not pan cambo, it has the alkaloid potency in the HIGH end of reported ranges for pan cyan. It also meets all of the published morphological descriptions for pan cyan, and even the microscopy work I did show that it is indeed pan cyan:
Estero strain available here:
https://sporesfast.c...n-syringe-kits/
Q: Can I buy a kit for this?
A: YES! See: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63406767 You will still need to buy a spore syringe and make grain spawn BEFORE buying the kit (or get a free spore print and make your own syringe or put the spores to agar).
June 10 at 7:09 PM, https://www.patreon.com/posts/67621105
Comparison of Estero (Pan cyan) and Albino Penis Envy (Cubensis) mushrooms via Thin Layer Chromatography: https://www.patreon.com/posts/67621105
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I will create a video explaining how to do this type of analysis, but for now I just wanted to show everyone a comparison between these species. Albino Penis Envy (APE) is widely considered to be one of the most potent cubensis cultivars, it was heavily represented in the latest psilocybin cup (if you want to see my comments/critique of the cup, click the link and scroll down to the bottom where comments are shown, to see comments on a phone you may have to tap settings (in chrome for example)->desktop view).
So how does APE stack up against Estero (pan cyan)?
Each dot in the picture above represents a chemical compound (these are labeled on the left). They are in two vertical columns, so the left side from top to bottom is all Estero, right side is APE. Starting with the two most important, look at the psilocybin and psilocin content - quantification is not precise, but you can estimate based on spot size and darkness, the Estero cultivar is approximately three times as potent as APE (and it would have easily blown all other entries out of the water had it been submitted to the psilocybin cup). This should be a reminder to all to dose appropriately (pan cyan holds the record for most potent mushroom species in the world as per published research).
If you normally take 3 grams of cubensis, try 1g of Estero. It is always better to start with a lower dose and see how you respond before trying anything higher (you may want to start with just 0.5g). There is NO PRIZE for taking the highest dose, in fact there is no documented benefit of any dose beyond about 35mg psilocybin equivalent, just more fear & anxiety for most people.
But there's more to it than just triple the psilocybin and psilocin, Estero also contains baeocystin (hard to see, but its there), urea (quite a bit), and serotonin. None of these compounds can be seen at all in APE. Could these be partly responsible for the difference in anecdotes from user experiences on Estero?
Here are some comments people have sent on this subject:
"I strongly agree with starting with one-half gram dry. It was a much better experience than any cubes I've tried even at higher doses."
"Cubes gave me mild nausea and made me feel 'shakey'. Not at all so with Pan cyans"
"Penis Envy is and has been overrated. I think any other well sourced Cube is just the same. It’s that cultural conditioning at play."
"lol who needs cubes when you can have Cyanescens! I’ve blessed a few people with them and they are now believers lol."
"When Estero kicked in, I wasn’t disappointed. At one point I forgot I ate Cyanescens and thought I was on a DMT ride! As often happens to me on DMT I was 'connected' to some kind of power cord or machine umbilical that was coming from my wall straight towards me and plugged into my third eye! And I felt the presence of a cosmic nurse at my side. Like she had her hand in my shoulder reassuring me all was ok! Then I was like “f*** I ate mushrooms this ain’t a DMT trip”
"I've taken enough cubes to know Estero is different... 2 grams. Most amazing experience of my life. 10 hours. And another two hours of happiness watching TV and talking about my experience with my wife. In the end I just want to thank you. No comparison."
"OMG, OMG, O. M. G. Had my first deeply religious experience on 2g [estero] yesterday. I have never felt anything like it in my life. It was truly incredible."
"I ended up taking a 1 gram of Estero since I’m used to taking 3-4 grams of cubensis. Man…you were not kidding about the potency of these. 1 gram easily felt like 4-4.5 grams of cubensis to me. These were by far the best visuals on mushrooms I’ve ever had. Also, the euphoria was quite intense, and giggle sessions were uncontrollable. All in all, I love pan cyans and they’ll likely be my go to. I’ll likely still grow cubensis for microdosing as well as less potency for sharing with others."
"Experienced people do sometimes doubt ones sanity trying to explain just how deep Estero gets on what some call a "micro dose" the pan experience for me is the most rewarding substance I've ever ingested and half reduced my dose and frequency of use to fine tune the benefits, plus stopped using synthetic drugs completely and have been experiencing recovery i didn't really know I need but pretty sure i do."
"I didn't really expect how good the differences were from Cube to estero. The visuals weren't comparable at all and the euphoria was so wonderful. My 2g trip was literally the best substance experience of my life next to marriage and kids. 10 hours of pure bliss." [Gordo note: 2g is too much for most people, be cautious]
"Funny because I went to an Ayahuasca ceremony in May and the Shaman told me to start growing pans... he said, “Cubes are for the people. Pans are for the elevated.”
"First experience last night with Estero pan cyan. Truly mystical, amazing, and the most beautiful and gentle psychedelic experience to date. Truly a gift."
"There's something about Pan Cyan that induces something special that no cube could ever bring, it isn't that it's a clean feeling either - it's something that must deal with happiness in general - so whether it stimulates serotonin production or a mixture of neurochemicals for the best experience, I have had consistently positive experiences with each trip both physiologically and psychologically. I wonder if it has to do with other alkaloids or absence of alkaloids vs cubensis"
One of this years funniest/best psychedelic reveals was the guy who actually came up with Penis Envy (the best selling cubensis cultivar of all time), when interviewed by Hamilton Morris essentially said (my paraphrase) 'Eh, it's still just a cube, and cubes don't do it for me. I find the Cyanescens far superior (they have entities)!'
Haha. So the guy who created the most popular cubensis cultivar in the world doesn't even like cubensis. Eventually I think most in the grower community will come to prefer other species. I would still like to see some reputable published research comparing user experience by species (this is challenging to do but worth a try). As an aside, if you listen to that Hamilton interview, the PE guy says a lot of "out there" things that deserve to be challenged, every so called claim of "supernatural powers" has always failed rigorous testing and he is no exception.
The psychedelic community has a long history of nonsense associated with it, and as far as I'm concerned, its time to do things differently, and I will always call out the nonsense. I have plenty more to say about Casteneda, astral projection, and more, but don't want to get side tracked.
Love life, stay strong, and be well.
[Notes on sample preparation and procedure for the above shown TLC]
100mg of carefully weighed, blended/homogenized mushroom powder from each sample was added to a small beaker, 5ml of methanol was added over top while also washing down the sides of the beaker. The beakers were covered then transferred to an ultrasonic bath in hot tap water (120F), sonicated for 8 minutes, 5 minute rest, followed by another 8 minute sonication. Samples were allowed to settle for 10 minutes but no filtration, decanting, or centrifuging was done. A calibrated micro pipettor (5µl) was used to transfer 10µl of each sample to the chromatography sheet. Sheet was developed in a sealed glass chamber saturated with eluent consisting of methanol and ammonia (100:1.5 mixing ratio). After development the sheet was allowed to dry while undergoing ultraviolet examination, then freshly mixed Ehrlich's reagent was applied by spray bottle until the sheet was saturated, followed by drying with a heat gun. Sheet was periodically photographed every 5 minutes until colors reached full development (maximum brightness).
https://www.patreon.com/posts/22774475
gordotek FAQ
https://www.patreon.com/posts/63406767
New "Grass Lover" mushroom grow kit (for pan cyan or any other grass lover species)
https://sporesfast.c...varieties-copy/
estero syringe
March 5 at 8:40 AM
New "Grass Lover" mushroom grow kit (for pan cyan or any other grass lover species)
I'm really excited about this because I have been trying to get a vendor to make kits suitable for my pan cyan TEK for more than a year and no one seemed able or willing to do it, people have been asking me where they could buy the substrate, etc. and I had no good source UNTIL TODAY! Midwest grow kits finally put together a kit that matches my recommended specifications. As far as I know, they are the ONLY vendor out there that is selling a kit like this. I'm also very pleased with where they priced it (currently just $35). Their kit includes properly pasteurized manure/straw based substrate (3 hour hot water immersion bath pasteurization process) with separate casing mix and the kit even includes the cake pans with clear lids. So with this kit, all a person will need is the grain spawn and a humidifier (note that they even sell a pretty cool looking humidifier with a long bendable hose that has great reviews so if you need a humidifier you might consider that too).
Midwest set me up with an affiliate link which I am very grateful for, any sales that happen after clicking my link help support this channel but I'm not promoting this just because I have an affiliate link, this is genuinely the only kit of its kind on the internet that I know of and the price is unbeatable too.
https://midwestgrowk.../GrassLoversKit
If the link doesn't take you directly to it, type "grass lover" into the search bar (the humidifier and grain jars should show up at the bottom of the grass lover kit page as well if you want those items).
Note: I wouldn't promote this without testing it first, they sent me an early version of the kit, I will probably make a full video review of the kit and add to this post when I have more to share, but for now I'll just say that everything looks fantastic! There was enough substrate in the kit to make 3 standard size cake pans, and the Estero cultivar RIPPED though this substrate reaching full colonization in 4-5 days with no signs of contamination. Looks to me like they got it right.
So someone who wanted to simplify the process of growing pan cyans could just order some sterile grain jars (Midwest also sells those), order a spore syringe (as far as I know, only one vendor sells Estero spore syringes) just inject the grain jars, wait for colonization, order the grass lover kit, dump the substrate from the kit into the cake pan that also comes with the kit, dump the colonized grains on top of that, mix, cover with clear lids, wait for colonization (preferably in warm temps 75-85F), then remove the clear lids and add the casing mix from the kit, humidify on a timer or spray down heavily several times per day, and you should get nice yields. Couldn't be much easier than that.
Gordotek:
=========
Dec 3, 2020 at 11:26 PM
New simple method (TEK) for growing Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens, Hawaiians, blue meanies, Pans and Pan cyans)
[Disclaimer: this work was done in a location where it is legal and I suggest you do likewise]
A video for this TEK is now available, but I like to make a written version of my TEKs in addition to the videos, and people have been requesting this one quite a lot, so here it is (I will update this article with any new developments, research, or improvements). Note: A vendor has stepped up to supply grow kits suitable for this TEK, these are NOW AVAILABLE, for full description see: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63406767 or click/tap here for the direct link to the kit.
UPDATES:
In July 2022 The Estero cultivar won the Cultivar Cup "Most Potent Mushroom" with over 3% combined active alkaloid content. I believe even higher numbers will be achieved in the future.
In August 2022 an Estero sample was HPLC tested at 3.43%).
In November 2022 I set a new WORLD RECORD for most potent mushroom ever tested (an astonishing 7.06% psilocybin equivalent), with the Tamarind Tree British Virgin Islands cultivar of pan cyan.
I also created a version of this TEK for mini greenhouses here.
First some background, why even bother to grow Pan cyans? Many used to consider this species harder to grow and yields are often lower compared to other species. So what's the point of growing it? I was a skeptic myself, but as I read more and more, my curiosity was peaked. First, it is well documented that this species can be more than three times as potent vs. cubensis, but that alone doesn't really matter -- what difference does it make if one takes a gram of pan cyans or 3g of cubensis? And yet anecdotes consistently suggested that there IS a difference.
Some old timers describe this species as "the crown jewel" of psychedelic mushrooms. Some growers will ONLY grow this species. Various comments suggest that this species produces a different type of experience, common in descriptions are: less nausea, pleasant body high, better visuals, low body load, less fear and anxiety, euphoria, smoother and gentler on the mind. I wondered, is there a plausible scientific explanation for this? Aren't the active compounds the same?
Well it turns out there are actually dozens if not hundreds of compounds in these mushrooms and they aren't all that well understood yet, in fact it was only recently that scientists even discovered beta carbolines in some species of psychedelic mushrooms. Some species of psychedelic mushrooms contain aeruginascin which is associated with anecdotes of euphoria and aeruginascin was even found in very small quantities in cubensis mushrooms so it could be in pan cyans too but as far as I know no one has looked for it yet).
Another possible contributor to the different type of experience is baeocystin and its dephosphorylated cousin norpsilocin which also seem to be associated with anecdotes of better trips.
It is plausible that the specific chemistry of pan cyans is responsible for the positive characteristics that have been attributed to it. Researchers also documented in 1992 that pan cyans produce serotonin which may also be contributing in some way to the anecdotes of positive mood (same paper documented 'slight euphoria' in test subjects, but I think their samples were weak in general, also note that dietary serotonin is not known to cross the blood brain barrier).
Because pan cyans require a much smaller dose (due to their potency) you get reduced mushroom fiber/bulk in your GI tract when consuming them which may have benefits with regard to comfort and reduced nausea. All this said, a lot more research needs to be done on this matter. I would LOVE to see some double blind studies conducted to properly compare species in a careful, dose controlled manner.
Other anecdotes found in published literature corroborate the anecdotes found online. For example see A Novel Experience with Panaeolus A Case Study from Hawaii (Journal of Psychoactive Drugs): "I experienced stimulation which seemed to involve both a psychic and a somatic component resulting in a pleasant sense of wellbeing. No one present expressed any feelings of dysphoria or unpleasant somatic disturbances, and no adverse reactions were observed throughout the evening... When looking out the window some of us perceived moisture and felt as though it were raining, but when David and I went outside later in the evening, we discovered that it was in fact quite dry.
We concluded that the robust sound of cicada may have given us the impression of rain and that perhaps we had experienced hallucinatory synesthesia. The ocean was vividly glowing in the distance, the clouds blowing across the sky were magnificent, and the entire setting produced a truly spectacular feeling of being aIive."
I studied most of the TEKs out there for growing this species and looked at all of the videos on YouTube of this species growing out in nature. Pan cyans thrive on massive amounts of fresh/moving air, and wild mushroom hunters report that it pops up often after 3 or 4 back to back days of rain and high humidity.
It is often found in wide open, breezy fields. It likes massive humidity and massive air exchange. Growers have devised all sorts of complicated and expensive ways to meet these requirements, sometimes using mini greenhouses, humidistats, ventilation systems, aquarium pumps, bubbler machines, and more. After some experimentation, research, and trial and error, I found a much simpler way that is very effective and requires minimal investment. Here is what I came up with that worked well:
logical chaos:
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I love Pan cyans. I used to live in Hawaii, and in the raining season, me and my friend used to pick them.
I loved the trip. It was soooo gentle and peaceful, and "loving". They loved me :lol: Never a bad time on pan cyans.
They are truly mystical, much better experience than the dealer cubenis i bought in Hawaii. Those felt like a synethic drug. Still enjoyable but pan cyans comforted my soul.
LysergicRide:
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I have done a lot of LSD and mushrooms only a few times. The only good mushroom trip I had was with some Pan Cyan's from the wild. They seemed to be a lot more like LSD... Very visual with a lot of self control/confidence and little anxiety or paranoia.
With regular shrooms, having not had enough dose I felt kind of anxious, paranoid, and dreamy like I didn't have as much control/confidence and less awareness.... but my results could be skewed based on my lack of experience.
magictrip:
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I would say they are almost without any anxiety. Panaeolus are quite vigorous and clear.
And they are way more euphoric.
Pans are dung lovers and I just feed them with horse poo. Pans only on grains are weak and less potent, trip is different. They just need dung.
Horse poo is the best in my opinion but you can use sheep, cattle, bull, goat, elephant, bunny dung. Collect it, dry and you can use it in substrates. I love to grow pans just on manure-straw mix, soak it for one day and put it into jars. Manure-straw have to be airy fluffy in jars, pans love airy substrate. As it is colonized just make casing and get pans in one week. Very easy. So, if you have no dung just collect it, there are a lot of choices around.
Yes, I have compared. What are you interested in? Overall, semilanceata is more similar to panaeolus, than to cubensis. Pans are smooth but potent, same as semilanceata. I would say panaeolus are way more visual. Visuals are more geometric and fractal. Although the trip is different.
Visuals and feelings during the trip, pan cyan trips are way more visual and fractal. Panaeolus trip could be more deep, more introspective and touching, in my opinion.
Anyway pans are much more similar to semilanceata than cubes.
Yes, this is an awesome specie of magic shrooms. It provides very intensive, potent, deep and visual trip. I very love them. Of course, give it a shot. I'm sure those shroomies won't leave you indifferent.
joedirt:
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It is well worth the effort. It took me a while to get it right and the yields are no where near what I can do for cubes.
However, Pan Cyan's are a MUCH smoother trip IMHO. I don't notice much of the dark anxious come up that I typically go through with cubes.
Cubes are an old ally, but once I finally procured pan cyan spores and grew them it was a game changer.
Also another think I really like about Pan's Cyan's. They are small mushrooms. I measure dose size by the number of shrooms.
1-3 threshold.
3-5 solid trip.
5-8 hard trip. (Have not done, just my estimate)
8+ heroic dose. (Have not done. Just an estimate)
I like to just toss 1-2 pan cyan caps into a batch of aya instead of MHRB.
Yeah man I'm guessing you will love Pan Cyans.
https://inoculatethe...ns-vs-cubensis/
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To learn more about the cultivation of these mushrooms, please refer to Jake Oncid’s “Jok Tek” on the Shroomery.
https://www.reddit.c...cyans_vs_cubes/
7456312589123698741
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Cyans are definitely more potent. I have repeatedly experienced ego death from doses around 2.5g while an eighth of cubes just gave me cool visuals.
free the weed:
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Cyans are more potent by a large margin. When grown indoors on a proper substrate I never take more than 1.5g of potent panaeolus species. 0.75 to 1g is my comfort zone.
TheNotoriousBIIIG
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They are so much cleaner ! The trip is shorter but more intense. The visuals are just incredible. You feel very light compared to cubensis and the headspace is more manageable ( at least at lower doses). Weird thing about them is that they contain serotonin. Maybe that can explain the difference in effects ?
A bit harder than cubes but not by much ! They require precise temp ( higher than cubes and they almost can't survive under ~22°c). They also require manure and a casing. But other than that it's basically the same as cubes in terms of difficulty. The mycelium is way more agressive so they're actually faster to grow
Samwise2512
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I would recommend trying them for yourself and making up your own mind. In my experience, different species definitely seem to have their own distinct flavour or character, and this seems to be the general consensus from experienced growers and psilonauts as well as Mexican indigenous groups who have used numerous species.
I know of multiple growers who refuse to consume Cubensis having sampled Pan cyans for themselves, and there is likely a reason for this. For myself, the Pan cyans are one of my favourite mushrooms, and in fact I rate them among the best drug experiences I have ever encountered.
Consistently really beautiful and blissful, I find them to induce a really clear, clean, lucid, crystalline experience, with really detailed and colourful shimmering visuals and deep euphoria, and they seem smoother on my mind and body than Cubensis, despite their much greater potency by weight. I don't get any body load or noise when I ingest Pan cyan...they hit like organic psilo LSD.
By comparison, Cubensis can sometimes feel a bit muddy/foggy, and can be a little more emotionally unstable or darker in nature and just not as clear and I tend to feel more 'drunk' on them. Pan cyans being more potent feel like a purer and more distilled psilocybin experience to me. I can sometimes feel a bit more weighed down with Cubensis while Pan cyans don't have this effect.
Because you only need a gram and upwards dried of Pan cyans for a really immersive psychedelic experience, I think the fact you don't need to eat as much actual fungal material makes it easier on your guts and system, and this in turn influences the feel of the trip because of the lack of distracting body noise or load.
So yeah I highly recommend them. Also if you can grow Cubensis from scratch you can definitely grow Pan cyans. I've also found Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybin azurescens, Psilocybe hoogshagenii, Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe cyanescens to have their own flavour or character that to me appears to be consistent across sessions - i.e. I don't feel the differences are all entirely down to external set and setting factors.
I concur 100% with this! I think people who think psilocybin mushrooms are all the same have never sampled Pan cyans...the induce a much higher order experience than P. cubensis, IMO. For me the "Hawaiian" strain of Pan cyan reliably and consistently yields a much cleaner, clearer, lighter, more lucid, colourful, crystalline, visionary and blissful, serene state of bemushroomed consciousness, while being very smooth on the body, than P. cubensis, with a much easier coming up period, and much less of a body load than the latter, which tends to produce a foggier, muddier, more lethargic experience, more likely to induce mental turbulence, dark trips and weird alien archetype experiences.
It is worth noting that P. cubensis tends to be shunned for shamanic use by indigenous Mexican psilocybe using groups. Of all the species I've sampled so far (P. cubensis, P. semilanceata, P. cyanescens, P. galindoi, Pan cyanescens), the latter are definitely my favourite.
Other species held in very regard by indigenous Mexican shamans for their experiential qualities include P. mexicana, P. hoogshagenii, P. caerulescens and P. zapotecorum which I think are also worthy of exploration.
Regarding the higher reported serotonin levels, serotonin cannot pass the blood brain barrier so will not have a pharmacological influence on one's trip. However trypotophan and other serotonin/psilocybin precursors in the mushroom may be bioactive to some degree, and amounts and proportions of these are going to vary with species (and other factors) alongside the psilocybin/psilocin/baeocystin/norbaeocystin levels.
I suspect the presence of these other compounds could modulate the mushroom experience to some degree, alongside the main active compounds. More potent mushrooms like Pan cyans seem consistently cleaner, clearer, more distilled in essence than P. cubensis, which to me feels a little diluted and more foggy in comparison, possibly due to effect of other secondary compounds, which you are consuming in relatively larger amounts given the mushroom's lower potency.
An interesting and relevant study on Panaeolus cyanescens mushrooms you may well already have encountered:
http://repository.na...document/569927
I largely agree, and you're right about the serotonin. However trypotophan and other serotonin/psilocybin precursors in the mushroom may be bioactive to some degree, and amounts and proportions of these are going to vary with species (and other factors) alongside the psilocybin/psilocin/baeocystin/norbaeocystin.
I suspect the presence of these other compounds could modulate the mushroom experience to some degree, alongside the main active compounds. More potent mushrooms like Pan cyans seem consistently cleaner, clearer, more distilled in essence than P. cubensis, which to me feels a little diluted and more foggy in comparison, possibly due to effect of other secondary compounds, which you are consuming in relatively larger amounts given the mushroom's lower potency.
I've only sampled the Hawaiian strain of Pan cyan, but I think they're fantastic. Definitely at least 2x as potent, but also very smooth and easy on one's system compared to Cubensis which can have more of a body load, I think the fact you don't need to eat as much actual fungal material makes it easier on your guts, and that alone changes the feel of them. Closer to LSD in this regard, but obviously with the earthy feel of the mushroom.
Pan cyans for me have consistently yielded a really beautiful and blissful bemushroomed state, I find them to reliably induce a really clean, clear, crystalline experience, and much more colorful than Cubensis with really detailed shimmering visuals and deep euphoria.
By comparison Cubensis can sometimes feel a bit muddy/foggy, more prone to dark-tinged experiences (sometimes without an obvious reason; things can just feel off), and just not as clean/clear feeling and I tend to feel more 'drunk' on them. I can sometimes feel a bit more weighed down with Cubensis while Pan cyans don't have this effect. Great mushrooms I can definitely recommend highly.
u/Cuck_Liddell
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5 years ago, trip Report: Panaeolus Cyanescens are the true Magic Mushroom. I'm never growing or consuming Cubensis again.
So a bit of background: For the past 5 months I've been depressed and unemployed, and I've had nothing but bad trips on Cubensis in that time, where I feel extreme dread and hopelessness, ruminating on what a piece of shit I've been my whole life, and sometimes being borderline suicidal. I'd been growing shrooms since I already had the materials, and wanted to occupy my time. Despite being depressed and supposedly knowing better, I'd trip hoping to gain some new insight, only to have yet another extremely harsh, difficult experience. Repeat this at least 6 times.
Then I had my first harvest of Jamaican Panaeolus Cyanescens. For those that don't know, these are considered by many experienced members of the psychedelic community, including one of the oldest and most prolific spore suppliers (Ryche Hawk of mushrooms.com and previously thehawkseye.com), to be the highest regarded psilocybin mushroom. They are much more potent than Cubensis, with reports of being 3-7 times more potent, and also contain serotonin, which is unusual for psilocybin mushrooms. People describe them as having a smoother, more positive trip than Cubensis, and cause much less nausea due having to consume less.
Anyway, despite knowing it was probably a bad idea due to only having bad trips for the past 5 months, I decided to consume my entire harvest of Pans, 24.2g fresh in a lemon smoothie. I just had to test them and see if they would really give me a different, and hopefully positive experience. They tasted much better than disgusting, funky, musty Cubensis, and didn't make me gag like cubes do. I watched a short 30min film (The Man Who Planted Trees) to wait for them to kick in. I began to feel the familiar heavy body feeling and after the movie, I turn off the lights and lie down and close my eyes to see and think and feel what is to come.
Mushroom visuals are always different and impossible to describe, so I'll skip trying for the most part, though they were impossibly beautiful. What came first was a sense of the energy of the universe taking me in on a wonderful cosmic journey. During my previous bad trips, I'd always felt like I wasn't good enough, but here I was being shown emphatically that I was, and everything that worried me didn't matter. I felt extreme awe and gratitude at not just the journey I was on, but just being alive, just existing. Soon, just the act breathing deeply became an exercise in loving myself. After a while of being in awe at The Other Side, I opened my eyes to see my dark room covered in geometric fractals.
It was like the universe was saying, "How dare you even think of having any remotely negative thought? Let me show you how wonderful and beautiful everything is." Throughout the trip, I was laughing and smiling more genuinely than I ever have in my life just to exist and be alive. Even the terms "laughing" and "smiling" don't do any remote justice for what I was doing. I was in an absolute fit of love and joy at the beauty of existence. I was able to forgive myself for what a piece of shit I'd been and everyone who had wronged me. Even as I puked painfully into a tote I wisely put down beforehand, I was grateful for even the experience of puking. This bliss continued for several hours. This was my second true breakthrough, the first being one where I took 28g of Cubensis in tea and unfortunately lost control and made a huge insane ruckus, flipping my mattress, trashing my room, and waking the neighbors. Learning a valuable lesson from the first time, I was able to just take in the experience in a more controlled way. Despite being my second breakthrough and taking possibly the highest regarded species, the experience exceeded my wildest expectations.
I began to return to normal, and before going to sleep and after waking up, there was quite an afterglow and I could enjoy mundane things in an extent that I normally wouldn't in the weeks before. Though Cubensis also gives such an afterglow even after harsh, negative trips, both the afterglow and the trip quality and positivity of Panaeolus Cyanescens completely blows Cubensis out of the water. They're not even in the same league, and compared to Pans, Cubes are fucking garbage. I'm finishing growing the Cubensis trays I've already colonized and tossing my 32 quart jars of Cubensis with some coir outside in a completely half assed outdoor patch, only for experimentation and because I hate waste. From now on, I'm never growing or consuming Cubensis again. I can see now why the native Mexicans regarded Cubensis as the least desirable psychedelic mushroom. Cubensis are just the easiest psilocybin mushroom to grow, but Panaeolus are the true Magic Mushroom.
Random Notes:
-There are other contenders for the highest regarded psilocybin mushroom, like the woodlovers Psilobybe Cyanescens and Azurescens, which have a higher raw potency, and Psilocybe Mexicana, the sclerotia producing species known as Teonanacatl, or "Flesh of the Gods." Mexicana were the highest regarded by the native Mexicans, and it's possible Cubensis and even Paneolus weren't as highly regarded because, being dung lovers, they were a possible invasive species and reminder of European conquest. Woodlovers, while being extremely potent, are well known to have the side effect of temporary paralysis.
-The all encompassing forgiveness doesn't dramatically change yourself for the rest of your life and for me it wore off for the most part within 2 days. Still, it was quite an amazing feeling and I don't want to downplay it too much.
-Though I managed to keep it together this time, it's very easy to imagine someone losing their shit during a breakthrough, as I did during my first. Take extreme caution. The first time, I'm very lucky I didn't hurt myself, break anything, or get arrested or committed to the mental hospital.
-I'm not entirely sure if my positive experience was due to the fact that I took the much stronger, serotonin containing Pans. Before this, I thought I'd need to get my life together or at least be on the right path in order to have a good trip. I've had equally intense visuals on Cubensis as this Panaeolus trip, but had a bad trip, so I don't think it was the sheer amount of actives I consumed that gave me such a great experience. I'm eager to do more research and testing.
-Though I now consider it the best experience of my life, trumping my previous breakthrough where I tripped even harder and was generally happier with life, it was not completely without negatives. It was more like a crash of emotions, but wasn't anywhere near as negative or dreadful as the feeling Cubensis gave me. More like an honest, but more gentle assessment of my life. This much more manageable mindset only lasted about an hour towards the end of the trip, and I was happy again. I've still heard people can have bad experiences on Panaeolus Cyanescens, but it surprised me to have such an amazing trip at the end of a particularly bad day. It's possible my negativity was all tapped out, IDK...
-In my humble opinion, I think 1 gram of wet Panaeolus is even better than 1 gram of dry Cubensis, making them 10X more potent, in addition to the more positive and smooth experience, easier consumption due to amount and taste, and much less nausea. Of course, it's a bit unfair to compare wet to dry, and it's also possible my Cubensis just suck due to genetics, growing conditions, skill, etc.
w0rdnerd
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I haven't tripped on Panaeolus Cyanescens in years! You're totally right that the experience blows cubes outta the water. I'll always love cubensis, but Panaeolus Cyanescens Hawaii and Mexicana are by far my favorite species to explore.
Thanks for the detailed trip report, I'm inspired to start to some plates. My last Pan Hawaiian and Pan Cambos plates tammed out or didn't ta
w0rdnerd
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You're so right about the come up and body load with Pans! It's one of the reasons why Pan Cyans and Mexicana are my favorites to explore! Cubes always make me feel so heavy and I often find myself myself having to lay down until the come down starts.
Umaiqi
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It looks very introspective. I like the details ! Do you know about serotonin effect ? I didn't read anything about it, do you have the source please ?
Speaking about potency, copelandia/paneolus cyanescens looks to have around more than .7% of psilocybin and more than .6% of psilocin (http://www.agiati.it...art11_gartz.pdf) while cubes have .6 of each (https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml). I don't know the influence of other substances ?
jimmy_luv
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They are electric! Very different feelings. The ceiling is way higher.. like I can't eat too many cubes but I could definitely eat too many pans. The comedown is clean too. Visuals are way more pronounced and color saturation is at a max. Really wonderful fruits.
Fartz_McKenzie
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The chitin isn’t as robust on pan cyan as with cubes allowing for easier digestion. As for headspace I’d say its my favorite space. I feel most consider pan cyan to be 2-2.5x stronger than cubes. And they taste waaaay better. When fresh they taste like a raw button mushroom.
Samwise2512
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I would recommend trying them for yourself and making up your own mind. In my experience, different species definitely seem to have their own distinct flavour or character, and this seems to be the general consensus from experienced growers and psilonauts as well as Mexican indigenous groups who have used numerous species. I know of multiple growers who refuse to consume Cubensis having sampled Pan cyans for themselves, and there is likely a reason for this.
For myself, the Pan cyans are one of my favourite mushrooms, and in fact I rate them among the best drug experiences I have ever encountered. Consistently really beautiful and blissful, I find them to induce a really clear, clean, lucid, crystalline experience, with really detailed and colourful shimmering visuals and deep euphoria, and they seem smoother on my mind and body than Cubensis, despite their much greater potency by weight. I don't get any body load or noise when I ingest Pan cyan...they hit like organic psilo LSD.
By comparison, Cubensis can sometimes feel a bit muddy/foggy, and can be a little more emotionally unstable or darker in nature and just not as clear and I tend to feel more 'drunk' on them. Pan cyans being more potent feel like a purer and more distilled psilocybin experience to me.
I can sometimes feel a bit more weighed down with Cubensis while Pan cyans don't have this effect. Because you only need a gram and upwards dried of Pan cyans for a really immersive psychedelic experience, I think the fact you don't need to eat as much actual fungal material makes it easier on your guts and system, and this in turn influences the feel of the trip because of the lack of distracting body noise or load.
So yeah I highly recommend them. Also if you can grow Cubensis from scratch you can definitely grow Pan cyans. I've also found Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybin azurescens, Psilocybe hoogshagenii, Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe cyanescens to have their own flavour or character that to me appears to be consistent across sessions - i.e. I don't feel the differences are all entirely down to external set and setting factors.
Sabnock said:
Sabnock is a legend, read countless posts from him and he is indeed correct.
Bardy said:
Yes, that information is incredibly vague or unclear. The sentence is very vague in that it does not tell you it would take a severe overdose of THH to inhibit MAO-A.
From Interprise chemical:
https://interpriseusa.com/product/tetrahydro-harmine-10-mg/
Keep in mind, the lower the nM, the higher or stronger the activity. Reading those numbers, you would have to take 30 times the normal dosage of 100mg THH, or 30 x 100 = 3,000mg THH just to equal rima activity of 100mg of harmaline, and it takes at least 100mg of harmaline to activate DMT. That much THH would be an overdose and most likely kill a person. My max is 300mg of THH.
It takes around 150mg of harmine to activate DMT, that would require 5500 mg of THH to do the same.
--> If you remember 69ron, I was not around when he used to post, as I was at the mescaline king forum thenook.org for at least a decade (now extinct) he claimed that THH alone would activate DMT, this is completely un-true, this earned him or her a very bad reputation as people found out after his writing of this, that no such thing was possible.
Bardy said:
When you compare 4.3% harmine and 5.6% harmaline to 0.1% THH, you end up with next to nothing in the seeds as THH.
There is absolutely no significant amount of THH in rue seeds, period...but you can make THH from harmaline in 1.5 hour. Even as a chemist, I spent months trying to make THH from harmaline without using exotic chemicals like TIHKAL, after months of failure, I went into a trance and was given a vision of how to complete the process I was stuck at using an over the counter chemical and explain how to make it simply in link below, I wanted humanity to know how to do this, as I feel it is extremely important.
Hallucinogenic Plants in the Mediterranean Countries, Ioannis D. Passos, Maria Mironidou-Tzouveleki, in Neuropathology of Drug Addictions and Substance Misuse, 2016:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/tetrahydroharmine
Older Caapi is becoming close to extinct as harvesters have to go further and deeper into the Jungle...hence the over hundred spiritual centers in South America are having to harvest younger cappi with much less tetrahydroharmine, here in link below is an alternative to help conserve while it grows over many years:
Traditional true Ayahuasca has always been (1) Caapi by itself or (2) Caapi with psychotria viridis or Diplopterys cabrerana.
12 reasons THH rocks and how to make her here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28423951/fpart/all
Nillion, I'm not a vendor nor ever been, you might be thinking of 69ron, I am not 69ron. Lifelong chemist and researcher. Anyways, I cracked the code on how to make THH at home in only 1.5 hour, no exotic chemicals needed like in TIHKAL, more on this below.
Bardy said:
I'm a life long chemist, and know my chemistry, THH is 100% SRI and not a significant RIMA at all. Harmine is a RIMA, so is harmaline. THH is the 2nd highest alkaloid in caapi, in same family as ibogaine with a 10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours.
Be careful if you buy THH from china (liftmode) as there have been reports of it not staining blue under UV (like real THH) but green, indicating harmaline is still in it. Dab a cue tip in vinegar, then take up a bit of your THH, smear on a paper plate, hold under uv light, if it glows blue you got pure thh, if any yellow or green it's contaminated with harmaline.
Freedom said:
Freedom, You will find no reports of THH + mushrooms or THH + LSD cause this is brand new cutting edge, but I've been doing it for many years, gorgeous experience, it's like taking a low dose of mescaline with you shrooms or acid.
THH or tetrahydroharmine is the best kept secret in the psychedlic world:
THH and how to make her (along with many trip reports of 300mg THH by itself):
Tetrahydroharmine or THH and how to make her, Caapi visionary feminine teaching spirit - The Psychedelic Experience - Shroomery Message Board
12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks: ------------------------------------------------------------------ 0. THH is not an MAOI or a RIMA but a psychedelic serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI)
www.shroomery.org
More of my research (10 topics), on the cutting edge, and why dmt should always be taken with thh as found in true Ayahuasca:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/
2 minute formed HPBCD DMT liquid very bioavailable sublingually under tongue & outperforms DMT salts orally by many factors in personal trials, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca.
Part 0: 12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks (this post #1 in middle)
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration, over 44 sublingual DMT experiences over a year's time (this post #1 at bottom). Many times stronger than oral DMT. Updated 1-1-2022.
Part 2: Receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
--> Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: Chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal, absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection.
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
part 10: One way to make pure tetrahydroharmine
part 11: From the archives of DMT world: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask
part 12: Out of print writings on the Divine Plant of the Incas, coca leaf visions...and writings on strong euphoria from coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, forming orally active cocaethylene in the liver, discovered in 1994. Explains the popularity of Vin Mariani (coca leaf soaked wine) with both popes, Thomas Edison and countless celebrities.
part 13: THH + mushrooms report from JKW.
part 14: Multiple encounters with death & depression.
Northerner said:
Thank you Northerner. I've been taking dmt with THH for many, many years, here is a compilation of my 50 + trip reports with many pics of the 150mg harmine + 70-300mg THH + 90mg dmt true Ayahuasca capsules:
Sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca capsules, my psychedelic of choice, visions of feminine teaching serpents - The Psychedelic Experience - Shroomery Message Board
Other topics: Alchemy chemistry fun: Compilation of pan cyan or panaeolus cyanescens or copeandia cyanescens trip reports, crown jewel of mushrooms: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28
www.shroomery.org
Since harmine has a half life of from 1 to 3 hours, I redose at the 1.5 hour to 2 hour point using only 75mg harmine + 90mg dmt in a single capsule again for a +4 moderately strong experience, as 1/2 the harmine dose is still active from the first dose. You don't have to add anymore THH since THH has a half life of 10.5 hours, peaking at around 5 hours. You can re dose as many times as you want, continues to work strongly.
This gives me a total 4 hour strong trip that is easy to handle, with hours of afterglow. Going beyond 120mg DMT is not recommended, see my trip reports on page 2. I recommend crushing the dmt freebase into fresh aloe vera gel from fresh leaf (*almart carries fresh leaf in grocery section or buy on line, store excess gel in freezer as it only lasts 1 week in fridge, defrost more when needed) only as the polysaccharides in the fresh leaf increase the penetration of the dmt into the intestines by many factors, for an experience that can easily reach +4 to +5 and is all encompassing and super colorful just like real Jungle Ayahuasca, I've noticed no difference in strength between these zero nausea Ayahuasca capsules and real Ayahuasca brew I've prepared from caapi and Hawaiian psychotria.
THH + mushrooms report from JKW:
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See page 3 of thread for an easy outdoor grow in garden containers with a bottom 3" layer of wet perlite.
Moonyham said:
Hi moonyham, this is with the pan cyan grass/dung lovers strain, long considered the crown jewel of mushrooms, slightly harder than cubensis to grow, and the trips are way more visual, very euphoric, very intricate fractal and geometric visuals like acid with saturated tropical colors. Several of my indoor containers contaminated as I did not use mycobags to grow out the substrate...I followed a tek where they were not used, now I know better next time to use them.
50 trip reports in this thread.
Modern research has determined that the pan cyan strain of mushrooms with their HIGH NORPSILOCIN and BAEOCYSTIN and related analogues content hit the adrenal receptors with as much force as MESCALINE or DMT, see chart below. Notice how just plain psilocin alone hits the 3 adrenal receptors (responsible for enhanced colors, euphoria, beauty and music enhancement) with lighter activity.
Attached: Structure–Activity Relationships for Psilocybin, Baeocystin, Aeruginascin, and Related Analogues to Produce Pharmacological Effects in Mice, ACS Pharmacol. Transl. Sci. 2022, 5, 11, 1181–1196:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsptsci.2c00177
by Grant C. Glatfelter*, Eline Pottie, John S. Partilla, Alexander M. Sherwood, Kristi Kaylo, Duyen N. K. Pham, Marilyn Naeem, Grant C. Glatfelter*, Eline Pottie, John S. Partilla, Alexander M. Sherwood, Kristi Kaylo, Duyen N. K. Pham, Marilyn Naeem, Vamshikrishna Reddy Sammeta Vamshikrishna Reddy Sammeta, Stacie DeBoer, James A. Golen, Elliott B. Hulley, Christophe P. Stove, Andrew R. Chadeayne, David R. Manke, and Michael H. Baumann.
Pan cyan vs P. cubensis
"They [Pan cyans] are so much cleaner! The trip is shorter but more intense. The visuals are just incredible. You feel very light compared to cubensis and the headspace is more manageable (at least at lower doses).
"Most intense, euphoric, neon colorful trip that introduced me to pan cyan, most unlike any cubes I have ever had. Way preferred these over cubes. So deeply euphoric and extremely visual with saturated tropical neon colors. From then on I was hooked."
"I didn't really expect how good the differences were from Cube to [Pan cyan] estero. The visuals weren't comparable at all and the euphoria was so wonderful. My 2g trip was literally the best substance experience of my life next to marriage and kids. 10 hours of pure bliss."
"I strongly agree with starting with one-half gram dry. It was a much better experience than any cubes I've tried even at higher doses."
"Cubes gave me mild nausea and made me feel 'shakey'. Not at all so with Pan cyans."
"Less cartoony than cubes. More crisp neon geometric patterns. The trip also feels less tiring."
"Copelandia [Panaeolus] cyanescens are far stronger than cubes and have a distinctly different feel."
"I've eaten pan cyans around the 1g dose - to me it was like 3g of cubies in strength with a different quality to it."
"IMO they [Pan cyans] are a lot better than cubes. No body noise and very intense and clear. More like LSD just a lot shorter. I don't cultivate many actives on a regular basis anymore, but out off all I have experienced to date, these are my favorite."
"Pan Cyan (and Trops) are very much worth the effort!!! I have never eaten any Cubes that were as VISUAL as these are. Not to mention a little goes a LONG ways. Gram and a half of these little fellers will blister your brain!"
"In my humble opinion, I think 1 gram of wet Panaeolus is even better than 1 gram of dry Cubensis, making them 10X more potent [?!?], in addition to the more positive and smooth experience, easier consumption due to amount and taste, and much less nausea."
"My first experience [with Pan cyans] was wonderful! I definitely noticed a big difference in potency and the mood of the trip. I still remember how clean, visual and surreal everything felt. I felt absolutely no body noise or anxiety. They felt very natural to experience, nothing felt wrong if that makes sense."
"Ok, so it's given that [Pan cyan] it's much stronger than cubensis. But I've noticed that there is a difference in the high. Why is that?"
"There's something about Pan Cyan that induces something special that no cube could ever bring, it isn't that it's a clean feeling either - it's something that must deal with happiness in general - so whether it stimulates serotonin production or a mixture of neurochemicals for the best experience, I have had consistently positive experiences with each trip both physiologically and psychologically. I wonder if it has to do with other alkaloids or absence of alkaloids vs cubensis."
"It is my personal view that Hawaiian Copelandia [Panaeolus] cyanescens offers the entheogen user a more enjoyable experience than the more easily cultivated Psilocybe cubensis. In fact I would place it in the premier cru of psychedelic plants, alongside the indigenous Liberty Cap (Psilocybe semilanceata) and the various DMT containing plants."
General comments
"They are the cleanest, smoothest, most peaceful mushroom vibe of all the species I have tried. Panaeolus cyanescens and tropicalis rank #1 in my book."
"They are far and above the cleanest clearest and most potent mushrooms I have ever encountered, tread lightly with these guys."
"SWIM has only consumed the Copelandia cyans (Hawaiian), and reputes them to be the best mushroom experience by far. Very clean trip, zero body load, clear head space."
"The highs real clean. It reminds me of the Felix the cat acid from the 80s. Just smooth. With little body noise and extreme visuals. A calm lucidity that is like a slice of heaven."
"First experience last night with Estero pan cyan. Truly mystical, amazing, and the most beautiful and gentle psychedelic experience to date. Truly a gift."
"I also noticed that cyans have a very smooth comedown and longer duration. What could be the reason for this?"
"Pans are no joke. Anyone who says LSD is more powerful than mushrooms has never done pans."
--------------------------------------------
Other topics: Alchemy chemistry fun:
Compilation of pan cyan or panaeolus cyanescens or copeandia cyanescens trip reports, crown jewel of mushrooms:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28108398/page/1
How to extract 2.4g dmt from 170g bark using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat and break resistant), post #15:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/
Tetrahydroharmine or THH and how to make her, Caapi visionary feminine teaching spirit:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28423951/page/1
Zero nausea HPBCD or aloe vera enhanced penetration Ayahuasca capsules:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371/page/1
Cactus tea before waterpark to beat the heat:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28411312/page/4
How to make LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide (Greek Eleusis ancient LSD) at home from morning glory seeds (the priests used non poisonous claviceps paspali which grows on paspalum grass adjacent to Eleusis present day in the famous Rarian plane, same alkaloid profile as the sacred Mesoamerican morning glory):
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/page/2
Make your own 1-acetaldehyde LSD at home from LSD, very similar to ALD-52 or the real orange sunshine:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28441105
LSD high dose trip: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28451382
On my very first pan cyan mushroom trip, where I went to a house music club tripping with friends, I viewed laser light patterns on the floor of the club, where the women danced, I believe the mushrooms showed me how to form never before seen patterns, as went I went home, over the next several months, I built my own 6 channel audio generator that when these combined frequencies (3 on x channel and 3 on y channel) were sent to a laser x and y galvanometer, were able to produce brand new laser patterns such as collapsing circles and spinning lines 360 degrees which looked beyond belief in the fog as 3-d, I then went on to market these laser scanners to clubs on the strip, and they were a huge success...I owe this creative invention to the mushrooms which sparked new creative energies, way beyond thought, from a higher source where the mushrooms tap into. My love for house music stems back to those days of visiting many clubs as an entertainment laser lighting fixture creator and programmer and making friends with the many DJ's. Over the summer myself and friends were lifeguards at the local water park. But on the weekends we went to parties or house music clubs.
https://www.friskyradio.com/
https://jaytechmusic.podbean.com/
myself:
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Very first pan cyan experience: 3 of us ate dried pan cyans on the way to a nightclub playing undergound house music. The road to the club turned into a rollercoaster of neon colors made of purple, yellow, green, super saturated, waving up and down in intense neon colors, just incredible. I looked at my left arm and it was covered in green Egyptian hieroglyphics, so wild!
I looked off to the side into the sky and saw 3 alein hyperdimensional beings, small in stature looking back at me, made of purple and yellow colors...we stopped to peak inside the store with crystals inside along the way, all of the crystals in the shop had alien heads in them with open mouths and penetrating eyes, staring back at us, we saw aliens in all of the crystals!
When we got to the nighclub, the woman collecting the $5 to get in, turned into a scary witch, we were all agasp, inside the club, we were some of the first to enter, so not crowded at all, the music sounded so bad ass, the videos playing in the addition rooms grabbed our attention. We each touched the girl's leg who went with us, who was tripping as well, felt like MDMA, the intensity of the touch was incredible. Most intense, euphoric, neon colorful trip that introduced me to pan cyan, most unlike any cubes I have ever had. Way preferred these over cubes. So deeply euphoric and extremely visual with saturated tropical neon colors. From then on I was hooked.
I grow these following Gordotek's simple method further below, when fruiting the spawned trays with the sterile casing layer, I just leave cake pan trays out on a small fold out table with a Kvol hd3 3.5 liter ultrasonic cool mist humidifier pointed at all 3 trays on a timer 1/2 hour on, 1/2 hour off, pointed at all 3 trays on a table close to window in small room that get's warmer than rest of house, fruit just fine in open air. Very simple, nothing elaborate needed. The monsoon is also a great humidifier.
I do use a flow hood however when transferring the grown out mycelium grain jars to the trays when mixing in with the pasteurized manure/straw (spawning stage), AND also later when removing the see thru cake lid covering the white mycelium grown out substrate in the cake pan when applying the sterile 1/4" casing layer. Picture at the very end of trays on table in open air for fruiting. They like a constant 77 degrees F from beginning to end, ie grain jar stage to fruiting stage.
Prefer keeping the 3 grain jars and the 3 cake pans during the lid closed "mycelium substrate grow out" and "open lid, open air fruiting stage" on top of a VIVOHOME 10 Inch x 20.75 Inch Waterproof Seedling Heat Mat with included 40-108°F Digital Thermostat Controller. You could also use a greenhouse Martha tent with controllable temp and a monsoon humidifier with stretchable hose that reaches as high as 66" to the top of the inside of the 63" tall tent to direct humidity downwards to all the trays, only have to refill the monsoon every 2 days.
Buy or make a Laminar flow hood, it's the best investment you will ever make.
*** You can take these pan cyan at the same time as taking 150 to 250mg of pure tetrahydroharmine (not an MAOI or RIMA but a psychedelic SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor) and it feels like "organic psilo LSD", powerful combination with super heightened euphoria and visuals and huge powerful music enhancement, stimulating like LSD in combo with the THH, as THH has numerous similarities to mescaline and LSD. I have done this combo numerous times, one of my absolute favorite trip experiences.
I can recommend pan cyans in combo with 150 to 250mg pure tetrahydroharmine, gives an experience that is extremely euphoric, intensely visual and spiritual, a lot like LSD when combined with the THH, one of my absolute favorites of all time.
THH + mushrooms report from JKW:
1) bridgesii 600 gram to 800 gram pieces from around the core tea, 350 to 450mg plus mescaline in the tea = 11 out of 10
2) panaeolus cyanescens mushrooms in combo with 150 to 250mg THH, 6 hour incredible experience = 11 out of 10
3) LSD with bridgesii cactus combo = 11 out of 10
4) oral 200mg harmine + 200mg oral THH + sublingual under the tongue DMT, can re-dose under the tongue dmt every hour up to 3 hours = 11 out of 10
Gordotek's pan cyan grow which I have used sucessfully for a long time:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/new-simple-tek-44645256 (Gordotek)
https://mycotopia.net/topic/110495-...aiians-blue-meanies-pans-and-pan-cyans/page-2 (Gordotek)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27637997 (Panaeolus In Mono Tubs 2.0, Baba Yaga)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27637997 (Panaeolus In Mono Tubs 2.0, Baba Yaga)
http://en.psilosophy.info/panaeolus_cyanescens_liquid_culture_to_fruits.html (Panaeolus Cyanescens -- Liquid Culture to Fruits)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25987049 (Asura, Cultivating Panaeolus cyanescens)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25925194 (JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens)
https://mycotopia.net/topic/3295-waylits-pan-cyan-tek-plastic-jars/ (Waylit's Pan cyan Tek-- plastic jars)
https://www.shroomery.org/8695/Making-Panaeolus-Substrate-Pictorial (Making Panaeolus Substrate, Pictorial)
How pure THH or tetrahydroharmine adds to the experiences, here are my experiences combining it with sublingual HPBCD DMT. What I do now is take 200mg of harmine and 200mg of pure THH orally, then 1 hour later once I feel the harmine and THH, I take sublingual HPBCD DMT (around 100mg) hold under tongue for 15 minutes, all dissolves, gives a 1.5 hour very strong extremely euphoric and visual experience, then I re-dose more sublingual DMT at the 1.5 hour point again, holding under tongue, continues to work at full strength, as the oral harmine has a half life of from 1 to 3 hours, continues to work for 3 hours to 5 hours.
I way prefer taking DMT under tongue instead of orally, as zero nausea, goes straight to brain, no dizziness, the only way I use it, very bad ass this way. None of the negatives of oral Ayahausca. There is something about DMT moving thru the stomach that makes it nausea prone, dizzy, and weird and strange, this is all avoided by using it under tongue. The harmine lowers MAO in the brain for 3 to 5 hours, so you can use the dmt under tongue with many re-doses, as it prevents the DMT from being zapped by mitochondria in the brain.
https://mycotopia.ne...e-under-tongue/
https://mycotopia.ne...ts-masks-taste/
12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks:
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0. THH is not an MAOI or a RIMA but a psychedelic serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI) found in caapi with many similarities to mescaline. She is a feminine teaching spirit.
1. Part 10 of the first linked paper above: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to dip a cue tip in vinegar to wet, take up a bit of the THH, smear on a paper plate to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted.
--> Please do this UV check even if you source THH from China (liftmode paperwork indicates Chinese made), as there have been a few reports of it glowing green and not pure light blue with the vinegar swabbed UV check, indicating there is still harmaline in the THH, it would not be a good idea to take even light amounts of harmaline with shrooms, you want only pure THH...either make it yourself or source it from a reputable supplier. THH is an SRI and harmaline is a RIMA, completely different substances <--
1. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115:
In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.
2. She is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. She is the 2nd highest alkaloid in Caapi. She has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours.
3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.
4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.
5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, she is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline, few people have used her over 100mg. I have seen the receptorome chart for THH vs. mescaline. She not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors A1-A3 associated with beauty and aesthetic enhancement, just like mescaline. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included, she is diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.
Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.
6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.
7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. Listening to music on THH + DMT is like listening to music on high dose cactus tea: heavenly, infinitely beautiful music enhancement, every voice and instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a song for the very first time.
8. This pure THH at 300mg all by herself is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally.
9. The entry in TIHKAL for 300mg THH is completely wrong, where the unexperienced person compares it to the effects of 100mg harmaline. She is nothing at all like harmaline, and like 69ron once said about the person's comment in TIHKAL, he or she would not be able to tell their ass from their elbow. I agree, what complete nonsense. Dr. Shulgin wrote that he never got the chance to try THH, but wrote that more studies on it are "badly needed."
10. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Espiridion:
11. Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):
The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.
At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of teaching closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper:
12. Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher): Unraveling the Mystery of the Origin of Ayahuasca – Ayahuasca.com
Page 154 of "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi, 2005": https://kodu.ut.ee/~hellex/aya/kirjandus/keemia/Callaway2005.pdf
Callaway wrote in "The Entheogen Review":
THH blocks serotonin, just like all the major natural oral psychedelics, serotonin blocking results in stimulation, breaking down of barriers and filters, direct access to divine spiritual world, increased visionary power, major beauty, color and music enhancement, euphoria in combo with the DMT. DMT does not block serotonin but requires THH in combo to do this, important teamwork.
5-ht1a agonism is inhibitory and results in serotonin blockage (over 80% of brain 5-ht). Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. THH or tetrahydroharmine also inhibits the serotonin reuptake transporter (SERT).
In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].
Dr. Nichols (Purdue Scientist authorized to study LSD, from Heffter.org LSD paper): https://www.heffter....20/04/chap6.pdf
waylitjim (April 2005):
https://mycotopia.ne...nescens-merged/
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Ever wonder why many consider the Panaeolus experience incredibly unique?
"They are the cleanest, smoothest, most peacefull mushroom vibe of all the species I have tried. Panaeolus cyanescens and tropicalis rank #1 in my book."
"the highs real clean . its reminds me of the phelix the cat acid from the 80s . just smooth . with little body noise and extreme visuals . a calm lucidty that is like a slice of heaven"
"Pan Cyan (and Trops) are very much worth the effort!!! I have never eaten any Cubes that were as VISUAL as these are. Not to mention a little goes a LONG ways. Gram and a half of these little fellers will blister your brain!"
Psilocybin and psilocin are part of the tryptamine family. Their chemical structure bears close resemblance to that of serotonin.
All Panaeolus species contain the neurotransmitter serotonin. Cubensis and wood lovers do not contain serotonin. The primary effect of psilocin is on the receptors for serotonin and there is evidence that psilocybin reduces the reuptake of serotonin by neurons in the brain allowing this neurotransmitter more time to act in the synapse.
"The occurrence of tryptamine derivatives in Panaeolus cyanescens, also known as Copelandia cyanescens, from Australia, Hawaii and Thailand were investigated. All 70 collections contained psilocin, serotonin and urea. Those from Hawaii were also relatively rich in psilocybin, whereas the species from Australia and Thailand were virtually exempt of this compound.
It is not unthinkable that the ability to biosynthesize psilocin in a number of Panaeolus is a consequece of a genetic accident: initially, these members of the genus probably produced more or important qualites of serotonin until a mutation conferred the ability to produce 4-hydroxylated tryptamines. So far, not other genus or species has been found to accomplish this feat!"
Partial reference from:
Stijve, T. (1992): Psilocin, psilocybin, serotonin and urea in Panaeolus cyanescens from various origin
waylitjim:
----------
Even with lower levels of psilocybin, Panaeolus are still more potent than Cubensis. Why? Because by weight psilocin is around 1.4 times more potent than psilocybin.
The primary active ingredients of psilocybe mushrooms are psilocybin and psilocin, and to a lesser extent baeocystin and norbaeocystin. The ratio of psilocybin to psilocin varies from species to species.
The primary difference is that psilocin is unstable and it breaks down in the presence of oxygen. If the mushrooms are dried correctly and kept cold, they should suffer very little psilocin break down. Psilocybin on the other hand has been found in a 115-year old mushroom sample.
It is believed that after injestion, psilocybin is easily converted into psilocin and that the pharmacological properties of both compounds are the same.
Asura:
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Pan cyans are faster than cubes and 3-4x more potent. 2g is a full on DMT-like, level 5 trip, so while your yield is less...your magic content is more...and the trips are insanely good. It's the most potent species anyone has a chance of doing indoors with significant yield.
They are harder to fruit but there are plenty of people killing it right now with low tech setups.
I would love to help out on the science...but I am not tripping right now. I could probably recruit some folks on the official pan thread, though.
The link in my sig details how I cultivate them, but an ideal time line is something like:
1. Agar wedge to LC. 5 days to grow out.
2. LC to substrate = 10 days to grow out
3. substrate to tray = 5 days to recover.
4. Case and fruit = 5 days until first pins.
So, wedge to first pins in 25 days. About 3-5 days to harvest. 2nd-x flushes will also be done in 3-5 days. If someone could figure
out how to get the yield and make it as easy as cubes, I'm pretty sure most people would grow these.
I am averaging about 32g dried for one tray (3 quarts substrate), which doesn't sound like much - but that is 16 full on level 5 trips from that.
If I lemon tek 2g of pans it is overpowering. Like forced VR or something. My eyelids cease to exist and the inside of my head and the outside
of my head are one space. Time loops. Living 1000 life times. Alien landscapes. Vision quests. You name it. It's pretty fucking intense and scary
to be honest...I don't do it that often :lol:
A 1g dose is heavenly, though, and much more manageable. Tea makes it easier. Lemon tek is like taking a strong cube trip and compressing it. The
trip moves really, really fast. It's speeded up. The come up is very disorienting. Like not only are you are tripping hard, you're also in a barrel
going over Niagara Falls.
Gordotek:
---------
3 DIC 2020 A LAS 21:26
New simple method (TEK) for growing Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens, Hawaiians, blue meanies, Pans and Pan cyans):
https://www.patreon....k-44645256?l=es
Questions:
Q: Is there a preferred or recommended strain to use?
A: I do believe strain selection is important, that said I know people have already used my TEK with many different strains and had success so it is not really critical. The "Estero" strain was the best strain that I tested, it is extremely vigorous, potent, and even forms more robust/meaty fruit bodies. There was some doubt at one point that the strain was even pan cyan, some thought it might be pan cambo because it was almost too easy to grow. However thin layer chromatography clearly shows it is not pan cambo, it has the alkaloid potency in the HIGH end of reported ranges for pan cyan. It also meets all of the published morphological descriptions for pan cyan, and even the microscopy work I did show that it is indeed pan cyan:
Estero strain available here:
https://sporesfast.c...n-syringe-kits/
Q: Can I buy a kit for this?
A: YES! See: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63406767 You will still need to buy a spore syringe and make grain spawn BEFORE buying the kit (or get a free spore print and make your own syringe or put the spores to agar).
June 10 at 7:09 PM, https://www.patreon.com/posts/67621105
Comparison of Estero (Pan cyan) and Albino Penis Envy (Cubensis) mushrooms via Thin Layer Chromatography: https://www.patreon.com/posts/67621105
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I will create a video explaining how to do this type of analysis, but for now I just wanted to show everyone a comparison between these species. Albino Penis Envy (APE) is widely considered to be one of the most potent cubensis cultivars, it was heavily represented in the latest psilocybin cup (if you want to see my comments/critique of the cup, click the link and scroll down to the bottom where comments are shown, to see comments on a phone you may have to tap settings (in chrome for example)->desktop view).
So how does APE stack up against Estero (pan cyan)?
Each dot in the picture above represents a chemical compound (these are labeled on the left). They are in two vertical columns, so the left side from top to bottom is all Estero, right side is APE. Starting with the two most important, look at the psilocybin and psilocin content - quantification is not precise, but you can estimate based on spot size and darkness, the Estero cultivar is approximately three times as potent as APE (and it would have easily blown all other entries out of the water had it been submitted to the psilocybin cup). This should be a reminder to all to dose appropriately (pan cyan holds the record for most potent mushroom species in the world as per published research).
If you normally take 3 grams of cubensis, try 1g of Estero. It is always better to start with a lower dose and see how you respond before trying anything higher (you may want to start with just 0.5g). There is NO PRIZE for taking the highest dose, in fact there is no documented benefit of any dose beyond about 35mg psilocybin equivalent, just more fear & anxiety for most people.
But there's more to it than just triple the psilocybin and psilocin, Estero also contains baeocystin (hard to see, but its there), urea (quite a bit), and serotonin. None of these compounds can be seen at all in APE. Could these be partly responsible for the difference in anecdotes from user experiences on Estero?
Here are some comments people have sent on this subject:
"I strongly agree with starting with one-half gram dry. It was a much better experience than any cubes I've tried even at higher doses."
"Cubes gave me mild nausea and made me feel 'shakey'. Not at all so with Pan cyans"
"Penis Envy is and has been overrated. I think any other well sourced Cube is just the same. It’s that cultural conditioning at play."
"lol who needs cubes when you can have Cyanescens! I’ve blessed a few people with them and they are now believers lol."
"When Estero kicked in, I wasn’t disappointed. At one point I forgot I ate Cyanescens and thought I was on a DMT ride! As often happens to me on DMT I was 'connected' to some kind of power cord or machine umbilical that was coming from my wall straight towards me and plugged into my third eye! And I felt the presence of a cosmic nurse at my side. Like she had her hand in my shoulder reassuring me all was ok! Then I was like “f*** I ate mushrooms this ain’t a DMT trip”
"I've taken enough cubes to know Estero is different... 2 grams. Most amazing experience of my life. 10 hours. And another two hours of happiness watching TV and talking about my experience with my wife. In the end I just want to thank you. No comparison."
"OMG, OMG, O. M. G. Had my first deeply religious experience on 2g [estero] yesterday. I have never felt anything like it in my life. It was truly incredible."
"I ended up taking a 1 gram of Estero since I’m used to taking 3-4 grams of cubensis. Man…you were not kidding about the potency of these. 1 gram easily felt like 4-4.5 grams of cubensis to me. These were by far the best visuals on mushrooms I’ve ever had. Also, the euphoria was quite intense, and giggle sessions were uncontrollable. All in all, I love pan cyans and they’ll likely be my go to. I’ll likely still grow cubensis for microdosing as well as less potency for sharing with others."
"Experienced people do sometimes doubt ones sanity trying to explain just how deep Estero gets on what some call a "micro dose" the pan experience for me is the most rewarding substance I've ever ingested and half reduced my dose and frequency of use to fine tune the benefits, plus stopped using synthetic drugs completely and have been experiencing recovery i didn't really know I need but pretty sure i do."
"I didn't really expect how good the differences were from Cube to estero. The visuals weren't comparable at all and the euphoria was so wonderful. My 2g trip was literally the best substance experience of my life next to marriage and kids. 10 hours of pure bliss." [Gordo note: 2g is too much for most people, be cautious]
"Funny because I went to an Ayahuasca ceremony in May and the Shaman told me to start growing pans... he said, “Cubes are for the people. Pans are for the elevated.”
"First experience last night with Estero pan cyan. Truly mystical, amazing, and the most beautiful and gentle psychedelic experience to date. Truly a gift."
"There's something about Pan Cyan that induces something special that no cube could ever bring, it isn't that it's a clean feeling either - it's something that must deal with happiness in general - so whether it stimulates serotonin production or a mixture of neurochemicals for the best experience, I have had consistently positive experiences with each trip both physiologically and psychologically. I wonder if it has to do with other alkaloids or absence of alkaloids vs cubensis"
One of this years funniest/best psychedelic reveals was the guy who actually came up with Penis Envy (the best selling cubensis cultivar of all time), when interviewed by Hamilton Morris essentially said (my paraphrase) 'Eh, it's still just a cube, and cubes don't do it for me. I find the Cyanescens far superior (they have entities)!'
Haha. So the guy who created the most popular cubensis cultivar in the world doesn't even like cubensis. Eventually I think most in the grower community will come to prefer other species. I would still like to see some reputable published research comparing user experience by species (this is challenging to do but worth a try). As an aside, if you listen to that Hamilton interview, the PE guy says a lot of "out there" things that deserve to be challenged, every so called claim of "supernatural powers" has always failed rigorous testing and he is no exception.
The psychedelic community has a long history of nonsense associated with it, and as far as I'm concerned, its time to do things differently, and I will always call out the nonsense. I have plenty more to say about Casteneda, astral projection, and more, but don't want to get side tracked.
Love life, stay strong, and be well.
[Notes on sample preparation and procedure for the above shown TLC]
100mg of carefully weighed, blended/homogenized mushroom powder from each sample was added to a small beaker, 5ml of methanol was added over top while also washing down the sides of the beaker. The beakers were covered then transferred to an ultrasonic bath in hot tap water (120F), sonicated for 8 minutes, 5 minute rest, followed by another 8 minute sonication. Samples were allowed to settle for 10 minutes but no filtration, decanting, or centrifuging was done. A calibrated micro pipettor (5µl) was used to transfer 10µl of each sample to the chromatography sheet. Sheet was developed in a sealed glass chamber saturated with eluent consisting of methanol and ammonia (100:1.5 mixing ratio). After development the sheet was allowed to dry while undergoing ultraviolet examination, then freshly mixed Ehrlich's reagent was applied by spray bottle until the sheet was saturated, followed by drying with a heat gun. Sheet was periodically photographed every 5 minutes until colors reached full development (maximum brightness).
https://www.patreon.com/posts/22774475
gordotek FAQ
https://www.patreon.com/posts/63406767
New "Grass Lover" mushroom grow kit (for pan cyan or any other grass lover species)
https://sporesfast.c...varieties-copy/
estero syringe
March 5 at 8:40 AM
New "Grass Lover" mushroom grow kit (for pan cyan or any other grass lover species)
I'm really excited about this because I have been trying to get a vendor to make kits suitable for my pan cyan TEK for more than a year and no one seemed able or willing to do it, people have been asking me where they could buy the substrate, etc. and I had no good source UNTIL TODAY! Midwest grow kits finally put together a kit that matches my recommended specifications. As far as I know, they are the ONLY vendor out there that is selling a kit like this. I'm also very pleased with where they priced it (currently just $35). Their kit includes properly pasteurized manure/straw based substrate (3 hour hot water immersion bath pasteurization process) with separate casing mix and the kit even includes the cake pans with clear lids. So with this kit, all a person will need is the grain spawn and a humidifier (note that they even sell a pretty cool looking humidifier with a long bendable hose that has great reviews so if you need a humidifier you might consider that too).
Midwest set me up with an affiliate link which I am very grateful for, any sales that happen after clicking my link help support this channel but I'm not promoting this just because I have an affiliate link, this is genuinely the only kit of its kind on the internet that I know of and the price is unbeatable too.
https://midwestgrowk.../GrassLoversKit
If the link doesn't take you directly to it, type "grass lover" into the search bar (the humidifier and grain jars should show up at the bottom of the grass lover kit page as well if you want those items).
Note: I wouldn't promote this without testing it first, they sent me an early version of the kit, I will probably make a full video review of the kit and add to this post when I have more to share, but for now I'll just say that everything looks fantastic! There was enough substrate in the kit to make 3 standard size cake pans, and the Estero cultivar RIPPED though this substrate reaching full colonization in 4-5 days with no signs of contamination. Looks to me like they got it right.
So someone who wanted to simplify the process of growing pan cyans could just order some sterile grain jars (Midwest also sells those), order a spore syringe (as far as I know, only one vendor sells Estero spore syringes) just inject the grain jars, wait for colonization, order the grass lover kit, dump the substrate from the kit into the cake pan that also comes with the kit, dump the colonized grains on top of that, mix, cover with clear lids, wait for colonization (preferably in warm temps 75-85F), then remove the clear lids and add the casing mix from the kit, humidify on a timer or spray down heavily several times per day, and you should get nice yields. Couldn't be much easier than that.
Gordotek:
=========
Dec 3, 2020 at 11:26 PM
New simple method (TEK) for growing Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens, Hawaiians, blue meanies, Pans and Pan cyans)
[Disclaimer: this work was done in a location where it is legal and I suggest you do likewise]
A video for this TEK is now available, but I like to make a written version of my TEKs in addition to the videos, and people have been requesting this one quite a lot, so here it is (I will update this article with any new developments, research, or improvements). Note: A vendor has stepped up to supply grow kits suitable for this TEK, these are NOW AVAILABLE, for full description see: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63406767 or click/tap here for the direct link to the kit.
UPDATES:
In July 2022 The Estero cultivar won the Cultivar Cup "Most Potent Mushroom" with over 3% combined active alkaloid content. I believe even higher numbers will be achieved in the future.
In August 2022 an Estero sample was HPLC tested at 3.43%).
In November 2022 I set a new WORLD RECORD for most potent mushroom ever tested (an astonishing 7.06% psilocybin equivalent), with the Tamarind Tree British Virgin Islands cultivar of pan cyan.
I also created a version of this TEK for mini greenhouses here.
First some background, why even bother to grow Pan cyans? Many used to consider this species harder to grow and yields are often lower compared to other species. So what's the point of growing it? I was a skeptic myself, but as I read more and more, my curiosity was peaked. First, it is well documented that this species can be more than three times as potent vs. cubensis, but that alone doesn't really matter -- what difference does it make if one takes a gram of pan cyans or 3g of cubensis? And yet anecdotes consistently suggested that there IS a difference.
Some old timers describe this species as "the crown jewel" of psychedelic mushrooms. Some growers will ONLY grow this species. Various comments suggest that this species produces a different type of experience, common in descriptions are: less nausea, pleasant body high, better visuals, low body load, less fear and anxiety, euphoria, smoother and gentler on the mind. I wondered, is there a plausible scientific explanation for this? Aren't the active compounds the same?
Well it turns out there are actually dozens if not hundreds of compounds in these mushrooms and they aren't all that well understood yet, in fact it was only recently that scientists even discovered beta carbolines in some species of psychedelic mushrooms. Some species of psychedelic mushrooms contain aeruginascin which is associated with anecdotes of euphoria and aeruginascin was even found in very small quantities in cubensis mushrooms so it could be in pan cyans too but as far as I know no one has looked for it yet).
Another possible contributor to the different type of experience is baeocystin and its dephosphorylated cousin norpsilocin which also seem to be associated with anecdotes of better trips.
It is plausible that the specific chemistry of pan cyans is responsible for the positive characteristics that have been attributed to it. Researchers also documented in 1992 that pan cyans produce serotonin which may also be contributing in some way to the anecdotes of positive mood (same paper documented 'slight euphoria' in test subjects, but I think their samples were weak in general, also note that dietary serotonin is not known to cross the blood brain barrier).
Because pan cyans require a much smaller dose (due to their potency) you get reduced mushroom fiber/bulk in your GI tract when consuming them which may have benefits with regard to comfort and reduced nausea. All this said, a lot more research needs to be done on this matter. I would LOVE to see some double blind studies conducted to properly compare species in a careful, dose controlled manner.
Other anecdotes found in published literature corroborate the anecdotes found online. For example see A Novel Experience with Panaeolus A Case Study from Hawaii (Journal of Psychoactive Drugs): "I experienced stimulation which seemed to involve both a psychic and a somatic component resulting in a pleasant sense of wellbeing. No one present expressed any feelings of dysphoria or unpleasant somatic disturbances, and no adverse reactions were observed throughout the evening... When looking out the window some of us perceived moisture and felt as though it were raining, but when David and I went outside later in the evening, we discovered that it was in fact quite dry.
We concluded that the robust sound of cicada may have given us the impression of rain and that perhaps we had experienced hallucinatory synesthesia. The ocean was vividly glowing in the distance, the clouds blowing across the sky were magnificent, and the entire setting produced a truly spectacular feeling of being aIive."
I studied most of the TEKs out there for growing this species and looked at all of the videos on YouTube of this species growing out in nature. Pan cyans thrive on massive amounts of fresh/moving air, and wild mushroom hunters report that it pops up often after 3 or 4 back to back days of rain and high humidity.
It is often found in wide open, breezy fields. It likes massive humidity and massive air exchange. Growers have devised all sorts of complicated and expensive ways to meet these requirements, sometimes using mini greenhouses, humidistats, ventilation systems, aquarium pumps, bubbler machines, and more. After some experimentation, research, and trial and error, I found a much simpler way that is very effective and requires minimal investment. Here is what I came up with that worked well:
logical chaos:
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I love Pan cyans. I used to live in Hawaii, and in the raining season, me and my friend used to pick them.
I loved the trip. It was soooo gentle and peaceful, and "loving". They loved me :lol: Never a bad time on pan cyans.
They are truly mystical, much better experience than the dealer cubenis i bought in Hawaii. Those felt like a synethic drug. Still enjoyable but pan cyans comforted my soul.
LysergicRide:
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I have done a lot of LSD and mushrooms only a few times. The only good mushroom trip I had was with some Pan Cyan's from the wild. They seemed to be a lot more like LSD... Very visual with a lot of self control/confidence and little anxiety or paranoia.
With regular shrooms, having not had enough dose I felt kind of anxious, paranoid, and dreamy like I didn't have as much control/confidence and less awareness.... but my results could be skewed based on my lack of experience.
magictrip:
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I would say they are almost without any anxiety. Panaeolus are quite vigorous and clear.
And they are way more euphoric.
Pans are dung lovers and I just feed them with horse poo. Pans only on grains are weak and less potent, trip is different. They just need dung.
Horse poo is the best in my opinion but you can use sheep, cattle, bull, goat, elephant, bunny dung. Collect it, dry and you can use it in substrates. I love to grow pans just on manure-straw mix, soak it for one day and put it into jars. Manure-straw have to be airy fluffy in jars, pans love airy substrate. As it is colonized just make casing and get pans in one week. Very easy. So, if you have no dung just collect it, there are a lot of choices around.
Yes, I have compared. What are you interested in? Overall, semilanceata is more similar to panaeolus, than to cubensis. Pans are smooth but potent, same as semilanceata. I would say panaeolus are way more visual. Visuals are more geometric and fractal. Although the trip is different.
Visuals and feelings during the trip, pan cyan trips are way more visual and fractal. Panaeolus trip could be more deep, more introspective and touching, in my opinion.
Anyway pans are much more similar to semilanceata than cubes.
Yes, this is an awesome specie of magic shrooms. It provides very intensive, potent, deep and visual trip. I very love them. Of course, give it a shot. I'm sure those shroomies won't leave you indifferent.
joedirt:
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It is well worth the effort. It took me a while to get it right and the yields are no where near what I can do for cubes.
However, Pan Cyan's are a MUCH smoother trip IMHO. I don't notice much of the dark anxious come up that I typically go through with cubes.
Cubes are an old ally, but once I finally procured pan cyan spores and grew them it was a game changer.
Also another think I really like about Pan's Cyan's. They are small mushrooms. I measure dose size by the number of shrooms.
1-3 threshold.
3-5 solid trip.
5-8 hard trip. (Have not done, just my estimate)
8+ heroic dose. (Have not done. Just an estimate)
I like to just toss 1-2 pan cyan caps into a batch of aya instead of MHRB.
Yeah man I'm guessing you will love Pan Cyans.
https://inoculatethe...ns-vs-cubensis/
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To learn more about the cultivation of these mushrooms, please refer to Jake Oncid’s “Jok Tek” on the Shroomery.
https://www.reddit.c...cyans_vs_cubes/
7456312589123698741
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Cyans are definitely more potent. I have repeatedly experienced ego death from doses around 2.5g while an eighth of cubes just gave me cool visuals.
free the weed:
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Cyans are more potent by a large margin. When grown indoors on a proper substrate I never take more than 1.5g of potent panaeolus species. 0.75 to 1g is my comfort zone.
TheNotoriousBIIIG
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They are so much cleaner ! The trip is shorter but more intense. The visuals are just incredible. You feel very light compared to cubensis and the headspace is more manageable ( at least at lower doses). Weird thing about them is that they contain serotonin. Maybe that can explain the difference in effects ?
A bit harder than cubes but not by much ! They require precise temp ( higher than cubes and they almost can't survive under ~22°c). They also require manure and a casing. But other than that it's basically the same as cubes in terms of difficulty. The mycelium is way more agressive so they're actually faster to grow
Samwise2512
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I would recommend trying them for yourself and making up your own mind. In my experience, different species definitely seem to have their own distinct flavour or character, and this seems to be the general consensus from experienced growers and psilonauts as well as Mexican indigenous groups who have used numerous species.
I know of multiple growers who refuse to consume Cubensis having sampled Pan cyans for themselves, and there is likely a reason for this. For myself, the Pan cyans are one of my favourite mushrooms, and in fact I rate them among the best drug experiences I have ever encountered.
Consistently really beautiful and blissful, I find them to induce a really clear, clean, lucid, crystalline experience, with really detailed and colourful shimmering visuals and deep euphoria, and they seem smoother on my mind and body than Cubensis, despite their much greater potency by weight. I don't get any body load or noise when I ingest Pan cyan...they hit like organic psilo LSD.
By comparison, Cubensis can sometimes feel a bit muddy/foggy, and can be a little more emotionally unstable or darker in nature and just not as clear and I tend to feel more 'drunk' on them. Pan cyans being more potent feel like a purer and more distilled psilocybin experience to me. I can sometimes feel a bit more weighed down with Cubensis while Pan cyans don't have this effect.
Because you only need a gram and upwards dried of Pan cyans for a really immersive psychedelic experience, I think the fact you don't need to eat as much actual fungal material makes it easier on your guts and system, and this in turn influences the feel of the trip because of the lack of distracting body noise or load.
So yeah I highly recommend them. Also if you can grow Cubensis from scratch you can definitely grow Pan cyans. I've also found Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybin azurescens, Psilocybe hoogshagenii, Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe cyanescens to have their own flavour or character that to me appears to be consistent across sessions - i.e. I don't feel the differences are all entirely down to external set and setting factors.
I concur 100% with this! I think people who think psilocybin mushrooms are all the same have never sampled Pan cyans...the induce a much higher order experience than P. cubensis, IMO. For me the "Hawaiian" strain of Pan cyan reliably and consistently yields a much cleaner, clearer, lighter, more lucid, colourful, crystalline, visionary and blissful, serene state of bemushroomed consciousness, while being very smooth on the body, than P. cubensis, with a much easier coming up period, and much less of a body load than the latter, which tends to produce a foggier, muddier, more lethargic experience, more likely to induce mental turbulence, dark trips and weird alien archetype experiences.
It is worth noting that P. cubensis tends to be shunned for shamanic use by indigenous Mexican psilocybe using groups. Of all the species I've sampled so far (P. cubensis, P. semilanceata, P. cyanescens, P. galindoi, Pan cyanescens), the latter are definitely my favourite.
Other species held in very regard by indigenous Mexican shamans for their experiential qualities include P. mexicana, P. hoogshagenii, P. caerulescens and P. zapotecorum which I think are also worthy of exploration.
Regarding the higher reported serotonin levels, serotonin cannot pass the blood brain barrier so will not have a pharmacological influence on one's trip. However trypotophan and other serotonin/psilocybin precursors in the mushroom may be bioactive to some degree, and amounts and proportions of these are going to vary with species (and other factors) alongside the psilocybin/psilocin/baeocystin/norbaeocystin levels.
I suspect the presence of these other compounds could modulate the mushroom experience to some degree, alongside the main active compounds. More potent mushrooms like Pan cyans seem consistently cleaner, clearer, more distilled in essence than P. cubensis, which to me feels a little diluted and more foggy in comparison, possibly due to effect of other secondary compounds, which you are consuming in relatively larger amounts given the mushroom's lower potency.
An interesting and relevant study on Panaeolus cyanescens mushrooms you may well already have encountered:
http://repository.na...document/569927
I largely agree, and you're right about the serotonin. However trypotophan and other serotonin/psilocybin precursors in the mushroom may be bioactive to some degree, and amounts and proportions of these are going to vary with species (and other factors) alongside the psilocybin/psilocin/baeocystin/norbaeocystin.
I suspect the presence of these other compounds could modulate the mushroom experience to some degree, alongside the main active compounds. More potent mushrooms like Pan cyans seem consistently cleaner, clearer, more distilled in essence than P. cubensis, which to me feels a little diluted and more foggy in comparison, possibly due to effect of other secondary compounds, which you are consuming in relatively larger amounts given the mushroom's lower potency.
I've only sampled the Hawaiian strain of Pan cyan, but I think they're fantastic. Definitely at least 2x as potent, but also very smooth and easy on one's system compared to Cubensis which can have more of a body load, I think the fact you don't need to eat as much actual fungal material makes it easier on your guts, and that alone changes the feel of them. Closer to LSD in this regard, but obviously with the earthy feel of the mushroom.
Pan cyans for me have consistently yielded a really beautiful and blissful bemushroomed state, I find them to reliably induce a really clean, clear, crystalline experience, and much more colorful than Cubensis with really detailed shimmering visuals and deep euphoria.
By comparison Cubensis can sometimes feel a bit muddy/foggy, more prone to dark-tinged experiences (sometimes without an obvious reason; things can just feel off), and just not as clean/clear feeling and I tend to feel more 'drunk' on them. I can sometimes feel a bit more weighed down with Cubensis while Pan cyans don't have this effect. Great mushrooms I can definitely recommend highly.
u/Cuck_Liddell
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5 years ago, trip Report: Panaeolus Cyanescens are the true Magic Mushroom. I'm never growing or consuming Cubensis again.
So a bit of background: For the past 5 months I've been depressed and unemployed, and I've had nothing but bad trips on Cubensis in that time, where I feel extreme dread and hopelessness, ruminating on what a piece of shit I've been my whole life, and sometimes being borderline suicidal. I'd been growing shrooms since I already had the materials, and wanted to occupy my time. Despite being depressed and supposedly knowing better, I'd trip hoping to gain some new insight, only to have yet another extremely harsh, difficult experience. Repeat this at least 6 times.
Then I had my first harvest of Jamaican Panaeolus Cyanescens. For those that don't know, these are considered by many experienced members of the psychedelic community, including one of the oldest and most prolific spore suppliers (Ryche Hawk of mushrooms.com and previously thehawkseye.com), to be the highest regarded psilocybin mushroom. They are much more potent than Cubensis, with reports of being 3-7 times more potent, and also contain serotonin, which is unusual for psilocybin mushrooms. People describe them as having a smoother, more positive trip than Cubensis, and cause much less nausea due having to consume less.
Anyway, despite knowing it was probably a bad idea due to only having bad trips for the past 5 months, I decided to consume my entire harvest of Pans, 24.2g fresh in a lemon smoothie. I just had to test them and see if they would really give me a different, and hopefully positive experience. They tasted much better than disgusting, funky, musty Cubensis, and didn't make me gag like cubes do. I watched a short 30min film (The Man Who Planted Trees) to wait for them to kick in. I began to feel the familiar heavy body feeling and after the movie, I turn off the lights and lie down and close my eyes to see and think and feel what is to come.
Mushroom visuals are always different and impossible to describe, so I'll skip trying for the most part, though they were impossibly beautiful. What came first was a sense of the energy of the universe taking me in on a wonderful cosmic journey. During my previous bad trips, I'd always felt like I wasn't good enough, but here I was being shown emphatically that I was, and everything that worried me didn't matter. I felt extreme awe and gratitude at not just the journey I was on, but just being alive, just existing. Soon, just the act breathing deeply became an exercise in loving myself. After a while of being in awe at The Other Side, I opened my eyes to see my dark room covered in geometric fractals.
It was like the universe was saying, "How dare you even think of having any remotely negative thought? Let me show you how wonderful and beautiful everything is." Throughout the trip, I was laughing and smiling more genuinely than I ever have in my life just to exist and be alive. Even the terms "laughing" and "smiling" don't do any remote justice for what I was doing. I was in an absolute fit of love and joy at the beauty of existence. I was able to forgive myself for what a piece of shit I'd been and everyone who had wronged me. Even as I puked painfully into a tote I wisely put down beforehand, I was grateful for even the experience of puking. This bliss continued for several hours. This was my second true breakthrough, the first being one where I took 28g of Cubensis in tea and unfortunately lost control and made a huge insane ruckus, flipping my mattress, trashing my room, and waking the neighbors. Learning a valuable lesson from the first time, I was able to just take in the experience in a more controlled way. Despite being my second breakthrough and taking possibly the highest regarded species, the experience exceeded my wildest expectations.
I began to return to normal, and before going to sleep and after waking up, there was quite an afterglow and I could enjoy mundane things in an extent that I normally wouldn't in the weeks before. Though Cubensis also gives such an afterglow even after harsh, negative trips, both the afterglow and the trip quality and positivity of Panaeolus Cyanescens completely blows Cubensis out of the water. They're not even in the same league, and compared to Pans, Cubes are fucking garbage. I'm finishing growing the Cubensis trays I've already colonized and tossing my 32 quart jars of Cubensis with some coir outside in a completely half assed outdoor patch, only for experimentation and because I hate waste. From now on, I'm never growing or consuming Cubensis again. I can see now why the native Mexicans regarded Cubensis as the least desirable psychedelic mushroom. Cubensis are just the easiest psilocybin mushroom to grow, but Panaeolus are the true Magic Mushroom.
Random Notes:
-There are other contenders for the highest regarded psilocybin mushroom, like the woodlovers Psilobybe Cyanescens and Azurescens, which have a higher raw potency, and Psilocybe Mexicana, the sclerotia producing species known as Teonanacatl, or "Flesh of the Gods." Mexicana were the highest regarded by the native Mexicans, and it's possible Cubensis and even Paneolus weren't as highly regarded because, being dung lovers, they were a possible invasive species and reminder of European conquest. Woodlovers, while being extremely potent, are well known to have the side effect of temporary paralysis.
-The all encompassing forgiveness doesn't dramatically change yourself for the rest of your life and for me it wore off for the most part within 2 days. Still, it was quite an amazing feeling and I don't want to downplay it too much.
-Though I managed to keep it together this time, it's very easy to imagine someone losing their shit during a breakthrough, as I did during my first. Take extreme caution. The first time, I'm very lucky I didn't hurt myself, break anything, or get arrested or committed to the mental hospital.
-I'm not entirely sure if my positive experience was due to the fact that I took the much stronger, serotonin containing Pans. Before this, I thought I'd need to get my life together or at least be on the right path in order to have a good trip. I've had equally intense visuals on Cubensis as this Panaeolus trip, but had a bad trip, so I don't think it was the sheer amount of actives I consumed that gave me such a great experience. I'm eager to do more research and testing.
-Though I now consider it the best experience of my life, trumping my previous breakthrough where I tripped even harder and was generally happier with life, it was not completely without negatives. It was more like a crash of emotions, but wasn't anywhere near as negative or dreadful as the feeling Cubensis gave me. More like an honest, but more gentle assessment of my life. This much more manageable mindset only lasted about an hour towards the end of the trip, and I was happy again. I've still heard people can have bad experiences on Panaeolus Cyanescens, but it surprised me to have such an amazing trip at the end of a particularly bad day. It's possible my negativity was all tapped out, IDK...
-In my humble opinion, I think 1 gram of wet Panaeolus is even better than 1 gram of dry Cubensis, making them 10X more potent, in addition to the more positive and smooth experience, easier consumption due to amount and taste, and much less nausea. Of course, it's a bit unfair to compare wet to dry, and it's also possible my Cubensis just suck due to genetics, growing conditions, skill, etc.
w0rdnerd
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I haven't tripped on Panaeolus Cyanescens in years! You're totally right that the experience blows cubes outta the water. I'll always love cubensis, but Panaeolus Cyanescens Hawaii and Mexicana are by far my favorite species to explore.
Thanks for the detailed trip report, I'm inspired to start to some plates. My last Pan Hawaiian and Pan Cambos plates tammed out or didn't ta
w0rdnerd
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You're so right about the come up and body load with Pans! It's one of the reasons why Pan Cyans and Mexicana are my favorites to explore! Cubes always make me feel so heavy and I often find myself myself having to lay down until the come down starts.
Umaiqi
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It looks very introspective. I like the details ! Do you know about serotonin effect ? I didn't read anything about it, do you have the source please ?
Speaking about potency, copelandia/paneolus cyanescens looks to have around more than .7% of psilocybin and more than .6% of psilocin (http://www.agiati.it...art11_gartz.pdf) while cubes have .6 of each (https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml). I don't know the influence of other substances ?
jimmy_luv
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They are electric! Very different feelings. The ceiling is way higher.. like I can't eat too many cubes but I could definitely eat too many pans. The comedown is clean too. Visuals are way more pronounced and color saturation is at a max. Really wonderful fruits.
Fartz_McKenzie
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The chitin isn’t as robust on pan cyan as with cubes allowing for easier digestion. As for headspace I’d say its my favorite space. I feel most consider pan cyan to be 2-2.5x stronger than cubes. And they taste waaaay better. When fresh they taste like a raw button mushroom.
Samwise2512
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I would recommend trying them for yourself and making up your own mind. In my experience, different species definitely seem to have their own distinct flavour or character, and this seems to be the general consensus from experienced growers and psilonauts as well as Mexican indigenous groups who have used numerous species. I know of multiple growers who refuse to consume Cubensis having sampled Pan cyans for themselves, and there is likely a reason for this.
For myself, the Pan cyans are one of my favourite mushrooms, and in fact I rate them among the best drug experiences I have ever encountered. Consistently really beautiful and blissful, I find them to induce a really clear, clean, lucid, crystalline experience, with really detailed and colourful shimmering visuals and deep euphoria, and they seem smoother on my mind and body than Cubensis, despite their much greater potency by weight. I don't get any body load or noise when I ingest Pan cyan...they hit like organic psilo LSD.
By comparison, Cubensis can sometimes feel a bit muddy/foggy, and can be a little more emotionally unstable or darker in nature and just not as clear and I tend to feel more 'drunk' on them. Pan cyans being more potent feel like a purer and more distilled psilocybin experience to me.
I can sometimes feel a bit more weighed down with Cubensis while Pan cyans don't have this effect. Because you only need a gram and upwards dried of Pan cyans for a really immersive psychedelic experience, I think the fact you don't need to eat as much actual fungal material makes it easier on your guts and system, and this in turn influences the feel of the trip because of the lack of distracting body noise or load.
So yeah I highly recommend them. Also if you can grow Cubensis from scratch you can definitely grow Pan cyans. I've also found Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybin azurescens, Psilocybe hoogshagenii, Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe cyanescens to have their own flavour or character that to me appears to be consistent across sessions - i.e. I don't feel the differences are all entirely down to external set and setting factors.
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