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Colleges tell smokers, 'You're not welcome here'

If someone said to me "that cigarette is really bothering me, I have asthma, could you please put it out?" I would, no problem. I totally respect that some people can't be near cigarette smoke.

But if someone is spending their time walking around, looking for people smoking and saying "that cigarette is poisoning our air, please put it out, here's some fliers about places that will help you quit, blah blah blah", I have a problem with that. Those people are just intentionally being assholes. I have nothing against people who are really bothered by cigarette smoke, but the people handing out fliers are literally just trying to start shit. They're acting like cops, except that cigarette smoking isn't illegal.
 
Fuck that noise, you should at least be allowed to smoke outside.

I'd be annoyed as fuck if people started coming up to me telling about quitting every time I smoke a cigarette, partly because I'm not addicted to them and partly because it's none of their damn business and I like to enjoy my smokes.

And yeah, cigarettes kill a lot of people. But I think if someone wants to kill themselves they should be allowed to. It's none of my business that other people chain smoke, just like it's none of my business that other people are alcoholics or shoot meth.

So you're saying you'd be OK with people shooting meth outside in public?
 
Why not? As long as they don't leave a mess or act like assholes afterwards. Do you have a problem with people shooting insulin in public?
 
^ Insulin and meth are two different things. Insulin is necessary for diabetics to live, meth is a highly addictive, unhealthy stimulant.

I'm not saying adults shouldn't be able to tolerate addicts, I just don't think that public meth injection would lead to sanitary disposal of syringes as well as the fact that I don't think that small children should be exposed to drugs. I don't think its right to misinform them but at the same time, drugs are best used with responsibility and if an undeveloped mind has access or feels its appropriate to use drugs, I would guess that it wouldn't end very well.

I smoked my first cigarette at 16 and didn't know what pot looked like until shortly after that. I probably should've given it a couple more years but better at 16 than at say, 11.
 
I quit smoking almost a year ago and still think people should be able to smoke if they want if its outside they should be left alone, this is crazy
 
So you're saying you'd be OK with people shooting meth outside in public?

Smoking is different then shooting, and injecting meth is much more unhealthy to the user. I don't really personally care if someone shoots up around me, but I can understand people not wanting others to shoot up in front of their kids and shit.

So what I think are relevant points here are-
1) Context
2) Shooting is more dangerous then smoking and poses more public safety risks (disposing of used needles in public, crank heads tweeking in public, blood exposure, etc.)
3) Smoking cigarettes doesn't cause a strong high, meth gets you very high. So the behavior of smokers is very different then the behavior of IV meth users. Tobacco is something people do while doing other stuff. Meth is something people do instead of doing other stuff, so seeing someone IV meth is watching someone get very high which seeing a cig smoker is not.
4) Social acceptability. This seems weird but it plays a part. When a child sees a smoker it's just part of life. Everyone sees people smoke cigarettes, no matter who you are. Most people never see anyone shoot meth. So a kid seeing someone smoke at a park is just another thing, a common sight. A kid seeing someone inject meth is different. We have to accept that tobacco is a part of our society.

Smoking cigs in public and shooting meth in public are apples and oranges.
 
this is not an enforceable policy. college kids smoke in between classes. that's just how it's gonna be. and in kentucky? psh.
 
I don't smoke outside of maybe once a month in combination with far superior drugs -- never publicly -- and my father has emphysema from lifelong tobacco use and will likely die soon from it. I still say let people smoke in designated smoking areas outside of commonly trafficked areas. I don't doubt making smoking more difficult publicly aids in reducing smoking, but it's not remotely amenable to the addicted. Yes, to smoke to the point of addiction in this day in age when so many undeniably better highs exist and are so easily accessible is blatantly stupid, but vast swathes of the population nevertheless are addicted (sorry smokers, you made a fucking ridiculous choice over and over again to become addicted).

Still, the argument that smoke spreads outside of designated smoking areas does not mean that the exposure level at such a distance is a realistic second-hand smoke risk to non-smokers, and smokers who smoke there should not be held accountable for the health of others). How can we seriously compare the second-hand smoke risk of a moment of enduring a vague smoky smell -- as in the case of a chance downwind encounter with smoke highly deluded wafting from a designated smoking area -- with living day in and day out inside a small apartment with a two pack a day smoker? Both could qualify as second-hand smoke, yet the former almost certainly does not inform the statistics. If someone is so sensitive to cigarette smoke that they can't handle it even at a highly deluded concentration then they are likely to be of a similar minority as those who cannot near a roadside because of exhaust fumes, and are likely also sensitive to many other common environmental pollutants. Their problem is unfortunate and unfair, but cannot be solved by banning smokers from campus property alone.

Also, how are addicted smokers realistically supposed to leave campus property to smoke between classes when on many campuses some classes are numerous city blocks away from the borders of the property in every direction, and the timing of classes does not permit such a journey without missing out on education daily and disrupting classes in session due to late arrival (imagine finals in quick succession, and choosing between failing a class or attending the final and doing poorly because you were desperate for a cigarette)? There's no sense in fining them when putting a trash can with some sand in a cup at the top outside of trafficked areas is all the more campuses need to do to make sure they are providing a realistically convenient education to smokers while safeguarding other student's heath from second-hand smoke (within common sensibility). Hell, it's difficult to imagine that even walking through a group of smokers' second-hand smoke outside of a building for a second or two before every single class constitutes much more for nearly everyone than a trifling annoyance. The vast majority of cigarette smokers only cut a decade or so off their life expectancy taking the shit in directly daily at levels many orders of magnitude higher than even bad second-hand smoke exposure.
 
I agree with the bulk of what you said, psood0nym, but there are certain things I strongly disagree with.
I will argue against them, but I do not mean it as an attack.
In fact, I appreciate your thoughtful, clear, and articulate post.

Still, the argument that smoke spreads outside of designated smoking areas does not mean that the exposure level at such a distance is a realistic second-hand smoke risk to non-smokers, and smokers who smoke there should not be held accountable for the health of others). How can we seriously compare the second-hand smoke risk of a moment of enduring a vague smoky smell -- as in the case of a chance downwind encounter with smoke highly deluded wafting from a designated smoking area -- with living day in and day out inside a small apartment with a two pack a day smoker? Both could qualify as second-hand smoke, yet the former almost certainly does not inform the statistics. If someone is so sensitive to cigarette smoke that they can't handle it even at a highly deluded concentration then they are likely to be of a similar minority as those who cannot near a roadside because of exhaust fumes, and are likely also sensitive to many other common environmental pollutants. Their problem is unfortunate and unfair, but cannot be solved by banning smokers from campus property alone.

I wasn't arguing that the physical damage from breathing smoke drifting far down the beach was severe, or comparable to living with a heavy smoker.
Just trying to bridge the gap between the two sides by helping smokers understand some of what we non-smokers go through, especially those of us more sensitive to tobacco smoke.
Public smoking affects many people's lives, and the majority of smokers cannot easily imagine the great extent of the effect.
I wasn't even saying that I support a ban on entire campuses, if you were referring to me there.
I support having designated smoking areas on campuses, and elsewhere.

I am not the only one that is sensitive to tobacco smoke. To paint me as one-in-a-million, like someone who cannot be near a roadside, is greatly unfair.
(and it is "diluted", not "deluded", unless I am the later ;) )
In fact, the number is almost certainly orders of magnitude greater than you are assuming.
For instance, I have many friends, from different contexts/cities/countries, that refuse to go to indoor public places where smoking is permitted.
Most are not as sensitive as I am, it is true, but many would develop scratchy throats, burning or teary eyes, or feel uncomfortably tight in the chest the following day. Did they develop cancer from that one exposure? Probably not. Did they take several weeks off of their lives? Unlikely. Do they deserve the freedom to go to that restaurant, or that concert, without suffering physically? Unquestionably.

There are only two people in my side of the family that wouldn't walk faster or slow down to avoid walking behind someone smoking on the street (one a smoker, the other an ex-smoker). The other dozen or so would certainly agree with me here. Several others would have not minded, but unfortunately they have already died of lung cancer cause by smoking, so I can't count them.

At my wife's family reunions, smoking is permitted, but the older generation or males (for whom smoking is quite normal) go outside.
Why? Because there are people (generally everyone up through middle age) who would be affected. They would probably not develop cancer based on that one incident. But they would get scratchy throats, burning eyes, or maybe they would just consider the air to stink, or maybe they would just not be able to taste their food well any longer. Should the older men ignore this, since there is not evidence that limited exposure to second-hand smoke at that level causes cancer? Should they say that their right to smoke in that location takes precedence over the younger people's right to taste their food?

Your standard of evidence is a level of toxicity that is statistically provable using current scientific methods.
That is ridiculous.
It is extremely difficult to assign causation in such cases as second-hand smoke, and yet dozens of large-scale studies have found that there is a 95% chance, or better, that a causative relationship explains their results most successfully.
You ignore the physical damage to innocent passerby, if it is not measurable on that scale.
By arguing that people should be allowed to smoke around building entrances, you ignore the freedom of people to pursue happiness without suffering the ill-effects of others' public self-destructive behavior.
I would have no problem with *carefully located* public smoking areas, designed to minimize public exposure, but to maximize smokers' convenience.
(Not that I mind having smokers walk a bit, to start to make up for the damage they inflict on themselves - which eventually gets paid for by the public, in large part, in some way or another - but the issues you describe with exams, etc. are all real, and I am not closed-hearted enough to want to embarrass or punish smokers.)

I believe that all drugs should be legal, but there should be designated areas for drug use in public, allowing non-users to avoid that scene if they choose.
This is especially true in my mind for drugs like tobacco and smoked cannabis, which can affect those around quite strongly, as well as injected drugs for the needle issues mentioned above in this thread.

Here is Japan, there are rooms in trains and airports that do not share (much) air with the rest of the structure, used for smoking.
I think that they are a wonderful solution.
Smokers should be allowed to have a place to smoke, just as non-smokers should have the right to live without smoke.

Peace.
 
^I think we agree more than your reply indicates.
By arguing that people should be allowed to smoke around building entrances, you ignore the freedom of people to pursue happiness without suffering the ill-effects of others' public self-destructive behavior
I never argued that people should or shouldn't be allowed to smoke around building entrances. I was just giving an example of how increasing the exposure level beyond that experienced by non-smokers sharing a campus with designated smoking areas outside of trafficked areas (e.g. at an exposure level comparable to that of smokers at the entrance of every building) is probably still not a realistic health risk. I understand, however, that some find walking through clouds of smoke outside of buildings physically irritating or holding their breath inconvenient.

I wasn't comparing you to a one-in-a-million case of someone so sensitive to pollutants that they can't near a roadside, either. I was comparing those hypothetical individuals who suffer health problems even at a large distance from outdoor designated smoking areas to such a case, not those whose eyes and mucus membranes are irritated by sitting inside next to smokers in some place like a restaurant where the exposure level is astronomically higher (I can smoke a cigarette and be fine, but old thick acrid smoke that's been hanging in stagnant air like in a garage or tent makes my eyes sting, too). The negligible health risk I brought up was referring to the risk from exposure in trafficked areas of campus from having smokers in a designated area outside away from trafficked areas (say 200 ft. away, outdoors).

I see reading over my drunken post last night that I probably should have stated what I was arguing for (designated smoking areas) earlier in the text. That probably would have removed some of the ambiguity from the middle paragraph. However, in the last paragraph I do say:

There's no sense in fining them when putting a trash can with some sand in a cup at the top outside of trafficked areas is all the more campuses need to do to make sure they are providing a realistically convenient education to smokers while safeguarding other student's heath from second-hand smoke (within common sensibility)
That was my compromise between smokers' right to an accessible education and non-smokers' desire to stay away from smoke. I was arguing with what a campus-wide smoking ban seems to imply: even out of the way designated smoking areas pose a health risk or serious annoyance to non-smokers (and therefore a campus-wide ban must be implemented in the name of public health (the rationale that has been provided)). Also, after being caught anywhere on campus property four times an addict "is placed on probation or asked to leave the school." To justify such a severe punishment they must think smokers are a true health risk no matter how distant from others smoking is happening on campus. My designated smoking area solution (also the solution of many others) seems to be very similar the solution you seem to support in the post above this one. However, you did post earlier:

If you have a smoking area, the smoke doesn't stay there. It moves where the air takes it, sometimes hundreds of meters away.

This was in response to another poster saying that "you can avoid a smoking area just like a drinker avoids a bar." That poster was referring to the outdoor designated smoking areas you state you agree with above (so long as the areas are carefully located). If carefully located means more than hundreds of meters away from all commonly trafficked areas I don't think that's a workable solution (and that's what my previous post was responding to). Perhaps you just meant to show the poster that his analogy didn't work and nothing more, but your post does imply that you believe people want to avoid smoking areas even when they're hundreds of meters away -- as if even such areas are a serious annoyance or a health risk. If that's the case we do disagree.

Heh, and, yes, you're right: it's "diluted," not "deluded".
 
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Man, I don't even know. I mean, it is impossible for a smoker to avoid EVERY person who hates smoke while they are walking, most of them trying to not harm people. Just like it is impossible for you to avoid EVERY smoker when you are taking a run or walk to a class. I mean yeah, we could exile the smokers, forever, and banish them into small rooms filled with the fumes...but really? Let the outside be peaceful and try to avoid us and we will try to avoid you.
 
Perhaps you just meant to show the poster that his analogy didn't work and nothing more, but your post does imply that you believe people want to avoid smoking areas even when they're hundreds of meters away -- as if even such areas are a serious annoyance or a health risk.

I just was referring to the analogy made when I said that.
If smoking areas are a reasonable distance away - not hundreds of meters, but maybe tens - I have no complaints (except for certain situations, such as putting a large smoking area, designed for dozens of smokers, tens of meters away from a playground).

So I think we agree quite closely.
 
^ Or maybe only rungs on a rope ladder, with a hammock at the top...
 
Numbers and Pegasus:
Y'all are joking, clearly, but I feel no animosity toward smokers (unlike some militant non-smokers).
(Off topic, but I have little patience for militants of whatever persuasion, including PETA militants, etc.)
I just believe that it is often difficult for them to understand non-smokers' suffering.
There is a compromise that will leave all parties satisfied, I believe, so that is what we should be seeking.
 
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