Stimulants Cocaine and amphetamine, comparison of addictive potential

[Neuroprotection]

Could anyone please compare both the short and long-term addictive potential of high purity cocaine with high purity amphetamine/Methamphetamine. from listening to a few stories on TV and online, I’ve noticed A vague pattern of differences but I’m still unsure. from what I’ve heard, cocaine can be very euphoric and Moorish with immediate extreme urge to redose. i’ve heard that amphetamine can be much more euphoric and obviously longer-lasting with much greater effects on behaviour. where things get interesting is how these mechanistically distinct stimulants generally affects people who get addicted to them. of course, everyone is different and responds differently to drugs. however, I observed that long-term cocaine users/addicts, while still fixated primarily on obtaining there fix, are somewhat more functional at least socially compared to heavy amphetamine abusers.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

You can’t compare amphetamine and methamphetamine as same, or even similar thing. Meth is way more addictive in a way stronger way.

I’ve only tried meth a few times so won’t comment on that but I’ve done quite a bit of amphetamine and coke. And I would say coke is on orders of magnitude more addictive. I might have amphs, a lot of it over a few days and leave it there or even have a pretty long run but without escalating dose much and staying within somewhat responsible use. Doing either with coke is a lot harder. Also cokes addiction can creep in slowly. I’ve heard friends who don’t use it more often than during weekends and maybe some time off that start to notice how they like it more and more and some start using it more and more. That’s less of case with weekend users of amphetamine that mostly just keep their use that way. It’s also less of a case with people using amphetamine for work.

Shorter duration and what’s for more people pleasure of stronger intensity are among things to blame for fact coke is more addictive. If smoked or injected multiply that by a lot.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

One more thing, it’s also a lot more possible to get amount of amphetamine you don’t plan to use in one go, in one binge and to really do so. Having coke around and not using it, once/if you get liking for it becomes almost impossible task for many. In fact those who ain’t like that with coke are in minority.

 

[Neuroprotection]

One more thing, it’s also a lot more possible to get amount of amphetamine you don’t plan to use in one go, in one binge and to really do so. Having coke around and not using it, once/if you get liking for it becomes almost impossible task for many. In fact those who ain’t like that with coke are in minority.

Thanks for your informative replies. I believe methylphenidate has a similar mechanism to cocaine and also shares with cocaine a very short half life. would you say methylphenidate can be more addictive than amphetamine? The reason I ask it’s because when I try psychostimulants for the first time, I am thinking of trying methylphenidate as it’s short half life could help me avoid insomnia

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Thanks for your informative replies. I believe methylphenidate has a similar mechanism to cocaine and also shares with cocaine a very short half life. would you say methylphenidate can be more addictive than amphetamine? The reason I ask it’s because when I try psychostimulants for the first time, I am thinking of trying methylphenidate as it’s short half life could help me avoid insomnia

I have more experience with ethyl than methylphenidate but they are similar enough to make comparation, I think. As me talking about adictivity of methylphenidate when I never had more than what I’ve spent during one use, that one or few times I had it wouldn’t be right.

On the other hand I’ve had more ethylphenidate and I’m pretty sure same rules apply to it. I would say relative addictivnes compared to amphetamine mostly depends on users preference in high so some will find one some other more addictive, which one is mostly case idk and would be very hard to estimate as there’s a lot more amphetamine around. I did find it somewhat less fiendish than amphetamine even I liked the high very much but that again it’s kind of a custom here to overuse amphetamines.

I don’t think you should worry much about addictive potential of amphetamine or methylphenidate for your intended use. It’s a whole different world if you’re talking about meth and coke, especially if used via certain ROAs.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I have more experience with ethyl than methylphenidate but they are similar enough to make comparation, I think. As me talking about adictivity of methylphenidate when I never had more than what I’ve spent during one use, that one or few times I had it wouldn’t be right.

On the other hand I’ve had more ethylphenidate and I’m pretty sure same rules apply to it. I would say relative addictivnes compared to amphetamine mostly depends on users preference in high so some will find one some other more addictive, which one is mostly case idk and would be very hard to estimate as there’s a lot more amphetamine around. I did find it somewhat less fiendish than amphetamine even I liked the high very much but that again it’s kind of a custom here to overuse amphetamines.

I don’t think you should worry much about addictive potential of amphetamine or methylphenidate for your intended use. It’s a whole different world if you’re talking about meth and coke, especially if used via certain ROAs.

thanks. this has made me more comfortable. i’ll probably go for either methylphenidate, or amphetamine depending on which first becomes available to me. I never intend to insufflate, smoke or inject Psychostimulants, I will only ever use them via the oral route.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

thanks. this has made me more comfortable. i’ll probably go for either methylphenidate, or amphetamine depending on which first becomes available to me. I never intend to insufflate, smoke or inject Psychostimulants, I will only ever use them via the oral route.

With both amphetamines and ethylphednidate I must say that I didn’t notice snorting them being more addictive, just a bit more fiendish but consider I’m comparing recreational doses. Than again is it really working if it ain’t at least a bit recreational? If it’s isn’t and person doesn’t suffer from ADHD than modafinil is just as viable option.

As for your hypothetical use, being responsible with dose, redosing and dosing schedule while keeping care of your body is most important when it comes to stims or just about any other drug.

 

[Neuroprotection]

With both amphetamines and ethylphednidate I must say that I didn’t notice snorting them being more addictive, just a bit more fiendish but consider I’m comparing recreational doses. Than again is it really working if it ain’t at least a bit recreational? If it’s isn’t and person doesn’t suffer from ADHD than modafinil is just as viable option.

As for your hypothetical use, being responsible with dose, redosing and dosing schedule while keeping care of your body is most important when it comes to stims or just about any other drug.

Thanks for that. Really like your point about drugs needing to be a bit recreational and that’s exactly what I’m looking for. amphetamine sounds really nice, not only as a functional drug, but also to enhance something like a celebration or a day out. many such events have been ruined for me due to fatigue, I’m sure I could’ve benefited greatly if I had a bit of amphetamine on hand.

 

[TimTim1993]

I mean for me cocaine was more addictive in the short term and the long term. I fell in love with cocaine and always wanted more and more. Now with amphetamines I can take a particular dose and be happy and satisfied with it. I get satisfied with coke too but I always crave more. Now Methamphetamine is whole other level compared to say L and D amphetamines and Methylphenidate.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I mean for me cocaine was more addictive in the short term and the long term. I fell in love with cocaine and always wanted more and more. Now with amphetamines I can take a particular dose and be happy and satisfied with it. I get satisfied with coke too but I always crave more. Now Methamphetamine is whole other level compared to say L and D amphetamines and Methylphenidate.

I’ve noticed many people seem to “fall in love with cocaine“, there’s probably a few reasons why. The very short duration of action is probably the main one, but pharmacodynamic factors could also be at play. For example effects on the dopamine transporter could lead to huge spikes of dopamine in certain brain regions. more interestingly, both cocaine and methamphetamine seem to strongly activate the Sigma one receptor. Sigma one receptors can apparently modulate and produce reward, both in concert with and independently of dopamine.

 

[TimTim1993]

I’ve noticed many people seem to “fall in love with cocaine“, there’s probably a few reasons why. The very short duration of action is probably the main one, but pharmacodynamic factors could also be at play. For example effects on the dopamine transporter could lead to huge spikes of dopamine in certain brain regions. more interestingly, both cocaine and methamphetamine seem to strongly activate the Sigma one receptor. Sigma one receptors can apparently modulate and produce reward, both in concert with and independently of dopamine.

Yeah I mean cocaine and crack(especially Crack) is super euphoric for me. I mean so is speed but it's just different. There was one time I did both Crack and Meth throughout the course of a night and it got me really wired, anxious and paranoid. But the euphoria wasn't so much there. It was like all the bad side effects of both together without the goods.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I’ve noticed many people seem to “fall in love with cocaine“, there’s probably a few reasons why. The very short duration of action is probably the main one, but pharmacodynamic factors could also be at play. For example effects on the dopamine transporter could lead to huge spikes of dopamine in certain brain regions. more interestingly, both cocaine and methamphetamine seem to strongly activate the Sigma one receptor. Sigma one receptors can apparently modulate and produce reward, both in concert with and independently of dopamine.

When you fall in love with a drug, you know how it goes, getting to know each other, honeymoon, marriage and a nasty divorce or god forbid fatal break up. And still no matter she treated you really nasty by the end, you give her another or few chances.

There are some noble exception where marriage really works out

 

[jimdron]

For me amph is more harmful because of its longer duration which causes severe lack of sleep and food. Urge to use amph next morning is very strong since I feel like crap due to aforementioned deficiencies. So days go by (sometimes weeks) like that. Since I am on amph is very functional I can easily work and I am often much more productive. All taken together severely change me. I began to have very narrow attention span (meaning I focus on just a few things, often work), my mood jumps up and down, I am very reactive, categorical often. I neglect my feelings altogether. My friends and family are getting much less of my attention. After a while I move into danger zone with my physical health due to lack of sleep and food and being always stressed (using amph is very much like being stressed all the time, you just handle it pretty well at the beginning). Blood pressure increases ~ 20%, heart rate ~ 30%, hands shake like hell all the time, anxiety increases A LOT.

Weekend comes and I want to have fun. Which on amph usually means at best ~ 6-7 hours of sleep until Monday.

A bit of living like that and I start thinking that heart attack is around the corner. Chest pain, heart palpitations are coming on very often, every few hours. I think this is panic attack beginnings, which is like a good thing, since heart attack is worse.

I am very good at being functional on drugs. And amph is top example of drug like that. A few days into binge I cannot imagine a minute being not on amph.

On coke I am intoxicated like hell. On amph I am another person.

These are all true coming from around 18 months of amph use every few days with binges happening around once a month. So amph is bad but I am still very much hope and look for ways to continue using amph but in a more healthy manner.

This is street amph, from paste if it matters.

 

[Neuroprotection]

For me amph is more harmful because of its longer duration which causes severe lack of sleep and food. Urge to use amph next morning is very strong since I feel like crap due to aforementioned deficiencies. So days go by (sometimes weeks) like that. Since I am on amph is very functional I can easily work and I am often much more productive. All taken together severely change me. I began to have very narrow attention span (meaning I focus on just a few things, often work), my mood jumps up and down, I am very reactive, categorical often. I neglect my feelings altogether. My friends and family are getting much less of my attention. After a while I move into danger zone with my physical health due to lack of sleep and food and being always stressed (using amph is very much like being stressed all the time, you just handle it pretty well at the beginning). Blood pressure increases ~ 20%, heart rate ~ 30%, hands shake like hell all the time, anxiety increases A LOT.

Weekend comes and I want to have fun. Which on amph usually means at best ~ 6-7 hours of sleep until Monday.

A bit of living like that and I start thinking that heart attack is around the corner. Chest pain, heart palpitations are coming on very often, every few hours. I think this is panic attack beginnings, which is like a good thing, since heart attack is worse.

I am very good at being functional on drugs. And amph is top example of drug like that. A few days into binge I cannot imagine a minute being not on amph.

On coke I am intoxicated like hell. On amph I am another person.

These are all true coming from around 18 months of amph use every few days with binges happening around once a month. So amph is bad but I am still very much hope and look for ways to continue using amph but in a more healthy manner.

This is street amph, from paste if it matters.

Very interesting thank you. Do you find cocaine stimulation is different to that of amphetamine? for example, would you say it is less functional and more euphoric? i’ve heard mixed things about cocaine with most long-term users saying it feels more toxic to the cardiovascular system and more physically draining than amphetamine. interestingly, when it comes to neuron/brain function, I assume that long-term heavy cocaine users may fair slightly better than heavy amphetamine users. interesting you mentioned the duration of amphetamine, i’ve heard the half life can be up to nine hours, which is crazy for a chemical promoting dopamine release.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Cocaine doesn't just feel more cardiotoxic, it provably is because of how it interacts with ion channels. The same mechanism that causes the local anaesthesia.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I’ve noticed many people seem to “fall in love with cocaine“, there’s probably a few reasons why. The very short duration of action is probably the main one, but pharmacodynamic factors could also be at play. For example effects on the dopamine transporter could lead to huge spikes of dopamine in certain brain regions. more interestingly, both cocaine and methamphetamine seem to strongly activate the Sigma one receptor. Sigma one receptors can apparently modulate and produce reward, both in concert with and independently of dopamine.

I read about year ago or something study that implied some certain serotonin receptor is possibly one of the critical factors with cocaine. 5ht4b? I don't remember more. They used regular mice and gene-knockout-mice lacking this receptor.

Everything is nicer little high on amphetamine. I found it much more addictive than cocaine for that reason. Generally I am after "perceived functionality" when I use drugs.

 

[jimdron]

Very interesting thank you. Do you find cocaine stimulation is different to that of amphetamine? for example, would you say it is less functional and more euphoric? i’ve heard mixed things about cocaine with most long-term users saying it feels more toxic to the cardiovascular system and more physically draining than amphetamine. interestingly, when it comes to neuron/brain function, I assume that long-term heavy cocaine users may fair slightly better than heavy amphetamine users. interesting you mentioned the duration of amphetamine, i’ve heard the half life can be up to nine hours, which is crazy for a chemical promoting dopamine release.

Cocaine is very different. Much shorter, more intesne, more emotional. Not really functional.

As I said coke is PARTY, amph is WORK. But work can be gaming too.

 

[jasperkent]

Cocaine is absolutely more psychologically addictive.

No contest.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

For me I love stimulants like Cocaine and also Methylphenidate. I never really cared for Amphetamines. I get more euphoria off Coke and Methylphenidate. Amphetamines just seem to be more stimulating and less euphoric. But I will take Amphetamines if it's the only thing I can get my hands on.

 

[Keif' Richards]

There are subjective differences between Amphetamine-type-stimulants (ATP's) and Cocaine. At the end of the day, these diffferences are just that, subjective. They are both potent CNS stimulants and to focus on the differences would detract from the reality in that they are extremely similar.

The pathology of the addiction and the lifestyle of the potential addict is where things get different.

I've always contended that the primary difference between the two is their duration of action. For instance, a Meth addict and a Crack addict both have lives that are dedicated to the pursuit of their drugs. In practice, the lifestyle is a lot different. A Crack user or even an intransal Cocaine user is going to spend time being high in increments of several minutes to at most an hour. A Crack user is likely to take a hit or several, be high for 15-20 minutes before the need to acquire/use more Cocaine hits. Someone who does a large hit of Methamphetamine can be high for as long as 12 hours off that single hit and a chronic user is typically in a day's-weeks' long pattern of being high that entire time, not returning to anywhere near "base line" for weeks at a time. It would be more comon for a Crack user to smoke all their crack and then spend the hours in between hustling money/drugs.

Cocaine is known to be especially cardiotoxic, even among powerful stimulants all being known to cause harm to the heart. People can and do die from cardiovascular events either acutely or chronically as a result of Cocaine.

Methamphetamine has a more systemic, full-body kind of toxicity that I feel makes it a more harmful addiction overall. Methamphetamine is neurotoxic and chronic usage creates destruction in the brain that is often irreversible. The physical effects of methamphetamine addiction are often highly visible. I can pick people out on the street and tell you instantly whether they're using Meth or not. Meth mouth is a well-known and documented consequence of chronic Methamphetamine usage. In addition, the malnourishment and dehydration often lead to early-aging.

In the end, both Cocaine and Methamphetamine can ruin your life. That ruin is going to take on a slightly different flavor based upon your drug of choice. I consider Methamphetamine to be the worse option. I've never seen a drug more destructive. I think you've got 5 years at the very most as a chronic Meth user before things get very serious.