Charged with Possesion & Paraphernalia... Advice?

orangelicker

orangelicker

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
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I was recently arrested for these charges. Here is what happened (in a nutshell):

A friend, D, began smoking marijuana in my car (with my permission as driver) as we were parked and about to leave the area. About 10 seconds after he began to smoke, a cop car rolled up and parked behind us. The bowl was handed to me in a panic; I didn't know what else to do but to shove it under the driver's seat.

He began to interrogate my friend, C, who was sitting on the back of the car with a cigarette. We could hear the dog barking in the car, and we could see that the officer was a K9 officer. I attempted to get out of the car in order to see why my friend was being interrogated; I was ordered to stay in the car.

The officer then approached my car, and asked for ID. I politely asked why he needed to see it and he then stated that the car reeked of pot. There were 3 of us in the car at the time; both the passenger (A) and I handed our IDs; the passenger-side back stated that he had no ID.

A few moments later the officer approached the opposite side (driver's) and ordered me to get out. As I got out of the car I locked it with the remote (as I do every time I exit my vehicle). The officer led me to the garage across the parking lot; C waas already standing at the adjacent garage door. The officer asked me if I had anything on my person that he needed to know about; I stated that I did not. He proceeded to pat me down and as he did I stated that I did not concent to any searching. He stated that he was not asking me to concent. I stated that I was just making sure he knew that I did not concent.

Another two or three cop cars entered the scene; soon after both of the people left in the car were removed each by his own officer.

Eventually I was led to a police car; the officer attempted to handcuff me but due to a cast on my arm he was only able to cuff one hand (to my belt). He stopped me beside his car and said to stay where I was. He then stated that if I moved he would taze me. I was not at all being belligerent or resisting anything. I answered all of the questions up until they started asking me random shit that I don't really remember. At that point I remained silent until they locked me in the car.

I immediately removed my phone and dialed my father. I informed him of my arrest and that he should come to the scene unless he wanted his car to be towed. An officer then approached the car and ordered me to hang up. I said "I have to go, bye Dad." The cop then said if it was my father that he needed to talk to him; I said "too late, I already hung up. You can't use my phone." He then said that I was going to jail for saying that.

Anyway, my parents arrived and talked to the cops for a while. Myself and the two other minors (C and A) were taken to JDC all night.

I was told that the pipe was found under my seat; two bags of marijuana were found under the passenger seat. One of the bags apparently spilled out all over the passenger floor.

I will add more detail in the future but my main questions are:

Am I fucked?

Is it in my best interest to get a lawyer?

What can I do to help myself?

Thanks for any one who took the time to read this; I appreciate your thoughts and comments.
 
1. Should you get a lawyer? Yes.

2. What can you do to help yourself? See question #1. :)

3. Are you fucked? Well, no one can predict the outcome of this case, but you should know that a good lawyer can start poking holes in the peoples' case from the start: whether the officers followed proper procedures or other technicalities. The main thing to keep in mind now is to not say anything to LE from here on out without your attorney present. It can't help you to do so in any way.

Also, if you have a clean record, these types of things can sometimes be pleaded down to violations/infractions--things which won't affect future opportunities in your life. Another possibility is "rehab" types of programs which sometimes can get these charges expunged or records sealed.

So all that can be said at this point really is to retain the best attorney you can and try to maintain a positive outlook as you work with him for the best possible outcome. Things that seem like they're the end of the world often aren't.
 
i had some similar things happen to me... and my friend who i mentioned in another post about someone in Kentucky being popped for weed. I'm too tired to write your options but i will tomorrow after i speak to two of my buddies - we've all had much worse run-ins with the boys in blue.

BTW you're not completely "fucked" .... you're never completely fucked and there's always a chance to get out of trouble. A perfect example is an old friend of my friend who got busted with 150kgs of coke, 1KG of GHB, a shitload of Oxy 80s, and some other pharmies. He got an incredible lawyer who got him out of similar situations before, so don't panic just yet. I'll post my advice tomorrow. peace

-cameltoe.
 
well yea def get a lawyer - and a good one at that.

your friends - that's if they're still your friends - friendship somehow disappears when the law is involved, unless you have true friends. I've seen both sides of "friendships" and how they could really turn sour when you're in court. Talk to your lawyer about what happened, every single detail that you can remember ...

"He proceeded to pat me down and as he did I stated that I did not concent to any searching. He stated that he was not asking me to concent. I stated that I was just making sure he knew that I did not concent."

That's not the best thing to say to a cop. Even if you refuse consent for them to search you or your vehicle -- i'm pretty sure they can search you if they "smell pot" (not sure if they can go & search the car) however i was pulled over in my friends car - which was registered to her parents. I rolled down the window and luckily I left the oxys i used to be taking at the office before leaving to go get milkshakes for ppl at the office. I got pulled over for my friends expired tag - the day before i was supposed to get my GTi at the time. The cop was a k-9 unit, i rolled down the window, he asked for license and reg. etc etc... came back & then said "i smell weed.. have you been smoking" i said "no sir, i'm on my lunch break at work going to get milkshakes".... he says "get out of the car".

I got out and they searched me without any warning or asking me if i agreed to be searched, the best thing to do is not say a word unless they ask you something - at which point you im pretty sure u can even deny saying anything. There's a link out there somewhere about what the cops can & can't do when they pull you over. The fact that they found the weed is a big problem the question is whether it was in fact yours or not. This is where the "friendship" thing comes in - the fact that you are all minors and if the shit was theirs, they should admit to it, as if everything is divided, there will probably be a much lighter sentence given to you guys.

If they try to pin it on you, you're very fucked especially if BOTH of them decide to go and try to pin it on you. However, since you're all minors and the cops probably interviewed each of you separately - make sure you get YOUR story straight & stick to it. I'm not sure about the phone call thing, but you were lucky to call your dad & let him know whats going on.

As I mentioned only you know the full story and if you knew who had what with them then that can really come back to bite you in the ass if you try to deny knowing that. While at the same time if you come clean and be honest with you lawyer im sure he can find quite a few things that the cops fucked up with. Such as how the evidence was found and handled, etc. how you were treated as minors, and how they tried to intimidate you... "rehab" isn't really necessary, depending on whether or not it's your first offense. I'm sure after your lawyer (depending on how good he is and how much experience he has) talks with the judge - you might get away with as little as community service or as much as time (don't know how much) at a juvenile hall.

Like i said my friend got busted with shit in the place he was renting & living at - growing pot - not just like a plant, but an entire grow room dedicated to it. Basically it made what you had look like a grain of salt... and for him after some time in court & much money spent in court fees & lawyer fees he got away with probation & community service -- not even sure about the community service. That's all i can tell you, sorry I can't go into more detail i've had a fucked up day at work & that's all i got. Hope some of it helps. Hope some of this helps I wish i could give more info as to how to talk to your lawyer, etc etc. but i don't know your full story and this isn't the place to do it. ;)

Best of luck to you. Just be strong and pray that your parents are willing to help you out with this. OH, and once you go to court, get some letters written, from teachers, friends, family, etc.... in your defense. You might get quite a bit of leniency from the judge.

-cameltoe.
 
Well my father talked to a lawyer; he said that because it is my second offense (kind of*) it would cost $2,500 USD!!!! I was thinking it would be expensive but not this expensive.

*I was charged w/ poss. & par. but after completing a diversion program the charges were *supposed* to be dropped and erased from record. However I guess it doesn't actually work that way.

Is it really worth it to pay for this? I'm not guaranteed that I will get off w/o anything. However my dad said that this lawyer used to be a magistrate and would most likely know the judge and other officials. He also explained to me that buying a lawyer is basically paying off the government. I fucking hate America.

Anyway is this really worth it for possession/paraphernalia??? Can I argue my own case or is that just a stupid idea?

The cop took me out of the car to question me, leaving the last 2 in the car. How can they prove that I had any knowledge of the contraband? The passenger(s) could have easily transferred the paraphernalia and pot from their pockets to under the seat. I never admitted to knowing of or using anything.

The only thing I can't help is the fact that I failed (most likely)the initial drug test after being taken to jail.

I don't see how they could prove that it was mine, or that I even had knowledge of it in the car.

2500 dollars is 3/4 of what Ive been saving for the past 1.5 years.
 
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orangelicker said:
Well my father talked to a lawyer; he said that because it is my second offense (kind of*) it would cost $2,500 USD!!!! I was thinking it would be expensive but not this expensive.

*I was charged w/ poss. & par. but after completing a diversion program the charges were *supposed* to be dropped and erased from record. However I guess it doesn't actually work that way.

Is it really worth it to pay for this? I'm not guaranteed that I will get off w/o anything. However my dad said that this lawyer used to be a magistrate and would most likely know the judge and other officials. He also explained to me that buying a lawyer is basically paying off the government. I fucking hate America.

Anyway is this really worth it for possession/paraphernalia??? Can I argue my own case or is that just a stupid idea?

The cop took me out of the car to question me, leaving the last 2 in the car. How can they prove that I had any knowledge of the contraband? The passenger(s) could have easily transferred the paraphernalia and pot from their pockets to under the seat. I never admitted to knowing of or using anything.

The only thing I can't help is the fact that I failed (most likely)the initial drug test after being taken to jail.

I don't see how they could prove that it was mine, or that I even had knowledge of it in the car.

2500 dollars is 3/4 of what Ive been saving for the past 1.5 years.
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dude. remember how i said this was going to cost you money... $2,500 is nothing if this lawyer is someone who knows people as your father claims. If i were you i'd try to get money whatever way i could & plead with your parents to help you out (again it seems?). Otherwise you will be fucked. You were driving or at least in the driver's seat when all this shit went down... in YOUR car - that in itself puts soooo much more shit on you. Any kind of defense, "i didn't know they had this stuff with them" or anything like that will be dismissed because it's your car and you should know what is in it along with whom.

trust me .... the money is well worth fighting this, especially if you pissed dirty too. i've been to court a couple of times for some random stupid shit & luckily at the time i was living with my friend in FL and we/he had the money to get me out of any kind of shit i was caught up in. $2,500 is not that much considering what you could be facing... in fact, there's a list on the DEA website for jail time, etc. for possession of what and how much. Research this, or i'll just post it later once i get to work and im not working ;)

honestly though, i'd just bite the bullet on this one and try to come up with the cash... the fact that you had the people in the car itself is what's got you fucked, and that they didn't ask all of you to step out of the car at the same time... you should have stayed in the car in my opinion but that's hindsight. Go with the lawyer, if you can afford this guy, and if your parents are willing to help you promise them you'll pay them back or whatever, but you wanna get out of this mess otherwise it'll follow you for a long time.

my $.02

-cameltoe.
 
Did you ever claim the weed as yours?

Guess none of your friends did since your getting the charges.

First off.....sounds like the cops had the probable cause (the weed smell) to search you and the car.

In most states, when contraband is found in a car, the state can legally charge EVERYONE in the car with it. This usually will not happen in the instance of someone copping to ownership of the contraband.

Just letting your know.

Good luck with your case..........and YES try and get the lawyer. It will be better than a public defender.
 
When you successfully complete a diversion program, the charges may be dismissed but the record of your arrest remains. Because you were previously offered a diversion program, you are no longer eligible for one now. This is the way it works in my state, I can't comment on how it works elsewhere.
 
Thank you all so much for the replies.

According to the police report, there were two (2) bags of weed; the mass was not given. I think it was about a quarter oz.

Also, I have the money to buy a lawyer, however it is all that I have been saving for the last year and a half... we are looking at multiple lawyers at the moment. It just pisses me off that I cannot buy the car for which I have been saving just because of this BS.

There is one more thing I wanted to ask. After reviewing the police report and my own memory, I realized that the police could have made a mistake (at least with my logic it was a mistake).

At the time I was ordered to get out of the vehicle, there was only one officer on the scene. He questioned me for about 3 or 4 minutes & patted me down on the opposite side of the parking lot and THATS when the second officer arrived. My point is the first officer left the other two people in the car, unwatched, for at least a few minutes.

I had no control over what they did in the car during this time. With the officer focusing on me, the other two could have taken any contraband out of a pocket to place it somewhere in the car. I know one of them would do this because he is a scumbag and would do whatever to keep from getting in trouble. By getting the contraband out of his pockets and into MY car he could then deny the possesion.

Was this a mistake on the officer's part? Can't I say I deny having any knowledge that the contraband was in the car?
Or would it be wiser to say that once I smelled the person who got into my car, I asked him to please leave his materials at home, and before any decision was made the cop appeared? Because the cop literally rolled up 30 seconds after we got into the car.

I guess even if this was a mistake that could get me out of the charges, I'd need a lawyer to say it for me, right?

Thanks again.


Also, according to the NORML website, 100g or less is a minor misdemeanor. There was at most 7 or 8.

One more thing: I believe it is unfair that they can hold the prior arrest against me. I was misled. It was my understanding that through completing the diversion program, the charges would be dropped at it would be as if I was found innocent. Perhaps if I had known that it would still count against me I would have taken it to a court of law in which I may have been found innocent.

If you are arrested, jailed, tried, and found innocent, can they still pin it against you just because you allegedly commited the crime? If so, I'd not believe it.
 
AHH one more thing. According to the second NORML link up above:

Ohio Less than 100 grams is a civil citation with no incarceration and a flat fine.

If this is so, why can't I pay the fine and be tried soley for paraphernalia? I guess I don't understand how it works.
 
Perhaps I am not being clear. Your prior arrest won't be used against you because the charges were dismissed (you were not found innocent--that's different) because of your participation in a diversion program.

When you successfully complete a diversion program, your charges are dismissed, but the record of your arrest remains. In most states (including my own), diversion programs are offered once, after which they are no longer available to you in future drug-related cases. This is what is relevant to you.
 
Well I ask because the first lawyer we talked to jacked up the price and justified it by saying that the extra $1,000 was beacuse of the prior incident. I was just confused as to whether the court could use it against me or if the only consequence was that the lawyer could charge extra.

Thanks for clearing that up. It just seemed like the charges were being held against me even though they were dismissed by the Court.

I doubt they would have offered me the diversion program even if I hadn't been through it prior. I doubt this because two of the others were taken to jail and are going to court just like me, but it was the first time they had each ever been arrested.

I think I am just going to have to suck it up and get a lawyer. He will be able to help me out with all my questions and everything better than anyone posting on this forum. I figure if I DIDNT get a lawyer, I'd end up paying that 2.5k dollars through drug assesments/classes/other bs.

I thank you all for your help and support. Wish me luck.
 
just one thing i've found out through research from my own tribulations (see my thread in this forum, i'm facing the same charges but being charged $1000 for a lawyer) is that if you've been through diversion AND had your record expunged after the fact (which is the case with most diversion offers), then technically there should be no record that you've ever had diversion.

so there is the possibility that you could get it again. also, even if there is a record, the judge is able to give you diversion, at his/her discretion. i found this information on KY.gov legislative website, in an official PDF, so I trust it to be true.

there has also been many cries for the reform of the diversion program because of the ability to be offered it over and over again, despite it not being intended to be used that way. since i can't post direct links, google this and go to the first link: "louisville courier diversion expunge"
 
At least where I am, a diversion program is offered once, even if the charges were later dismissed and the record of arrest expunged. An expungement doesn't just happen--you have to petition the court for one, usually with the assistance of an attorney. The record of completion of diversion program does not disappear, so the court will not "miss it."

Once again, diversion programs are typically offered once, at least that is how it was explained to me when I was offered one. This is in NJ, so I can't comment elsewhere. Perhaps you will be eligible again.
 
I spoke with a lawyer this week (this one only charged $750, thank God).
A gist of what he told me:

My county is the strictest in Ohio regarding drug charges. However, their focus is not to punish me but it is to change my attitude. He told me that the diversion program was intended to give me a second chance and by continuing to smoke marijuana, it was basically slapping them in the face and telling them that they failed.

We told him that the 4th person at the scene, who has had numerous prior arrests and convictions for drugs, theft, and other violations, will most likely not show up to his trial (knowing him I don't think he will) and that basically gives us a scapegoat. (He was the one that brought the drugs into the car and he was the one who suggested that the marijuana be smoke, plus he was coming from the apartments and the police were there to find us because there had been complaints of drug deals taking place in the area.)

He said that my best chance is to show them that I am taking the initiative to change my life around. To show this, he said that it would be very very helpful if I was to obtain as many letters of recommendation as possible. Teachers, managers, Boyscout Leaders, any anyone else. I know my managers would write me an excellent letter (they love me at work) and my teachers would also vouch for me. I am Senior Patrol Leader of my Boyscout troop, if anyone knows what that is, so I'm sure all my letters will tell that I am trustworthy, hard-working, helpful, a leader, etc. I think this is my best bet.
He also asked me how I do in school; he said that my 3.99 GPA and advanced classes will help me a lot.
A third suggestion he had was I may want to contact some type of counselor, perhaps a religious leader or something similar. He told me it would be bad if I were to go to a psychologist "for drugs" because that on any record could hurt me later in life. Showing that I'm trying to get some counseling or help will show that I'm working toward resolving my issue with drugs.

He also suggested my parents regularly drug test me and keep the results to show that I am no longer using.

He wants to take all of these letters, transcripts, and information to pre-trial. He said he hopes to have it settled so that going to court is no longer required.

I feel pretty confident that my good character and activites will help me a lot in this situation.

The only thing that pisses me off is apparently the Cops told my parents that I would be released to them when they showed up at the scene. For this, my dad felt it necessary and/or okay to answer when the cop asked him if he had had any prior drug problems with me. He told them a lot that definitely didn't help the situation (that I've been in trouble before and that they've caught me numerous times). I think my dad realizes that wasn't the best thing for me, because after that they decided I needed a night in jail.

He was not, however, specific about what would happen if this issue were settled in pre-trial. Would I still face the same consequences as if I were sentenced in court? Could the charges against me be dropped or lessened? The lawyer is apparently very close with the magistrate that is conducting my pre-trial, so that's a plus. If the story holds, he may be able to have the paraphernalia dropped, or at least I hope so.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to obtain these letters of reccomendation? I guess I could easily say I need a letter of recc. for scholarships or Eagle rank, but I don't want to mislead them and have a bunch of letters saying why I'd be ready for college or to be an Eagle Scout. How can I go about this without releasing any information that I was arrested and still get a generic letter about my good character and leadership skills, and without having a bunch of letters specifying that they are written for scholarships or Eagle Scout reccomendation??

I guess I am again very lucky that this issue may be resolved without me going to court or anything. No guarantees, though. I'm open to any suggestions that you all may have about what else I can do to maximize my chances of showing the magistrate that I'm really a good person with a lot of potential that doesn't deserve to lose his license for 6 months and doesn't deserve probation. Thanks.

PS the lawyer didn't seem too interested that the other boys had the opportunity to stash the shit in the vehicle while the cop was questioning me. He said "yes, that could be an argument" but it didn't seem like he was going to pursue that fact any further. But maybe it would help him lessen the charges? However he reiterated that by Ohio law because I was the driver of the vehicle I am untimately responsible for knowing what is taking place inside of it.
 
[I don't think you should] lie to the people you are soliciting character references from. You're just going to have to tell them the truth: you were busted for possession and paraphernalia, you are trying to turn your life around, and you'd like them to help you. Plus you need more than a generic letter. They need to address it directly.
 
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Missykins said:
...Plus you need more than a generic letter. They need to address it directly.
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Do you really think so? Might it not be best to get the kinds of references that focus solely on the OP's individual, unique accomplishments and contributions to society--without making any specific acknowledgment of his current legal troubles? (BTW, I'm agreed with regard for the need to be truthful)

I know that this forum doesn't exist to debate policy, but I must point out that there is at least some irony in the fact that the OP is being asked to validate a life that is clearly filled with positivity, based on an arrest for a nonviolent--and some might say victimless--crime.

And--without making any judgments at all here--I think that this situation is also instructive to the parents out there that "confiding" in LEO's when it comes to your children is probably not a good idea.
 
My similar experience, and advice

Dude, I'll tell you what I learned...First off, cops will tell you that if you tell them the WHOLE truth of what you've done, they will cut you a break....This can often be complete B/S!!!! I was caught in '93 with 10, 12" pot plants growing in my closet, inside of a home-made grow box with fluorescent fixture, fan, etc. I had no priors for anything, other than minor traffic stuff. They gave me the old, you help us , we'll help you.... So I admit that they are my plants, and I completely cooperated... For doing so, they charged me with 2 MAJOR FELONIES!8o
1) Manufacture of controlled substance for purpose of sale 2) Maintaining a dwelling for manufacture/sale of controlled sub.... and paraphernalia! I spend the night in jail, and the next day, they make me see their vice sargeant. He insists that I have to ratt someone out who is selling something harder than weed, or I'll surely go to prison!! So, I go find a lawyer. Guy was known as "Black-Jack"!! So I thought that meant he'd be a bad-ass lawyer with experience!! That was also B/S!! This mother fucker told me that I needed to "work with" the police for sure(rat someone out)! He tells me that if my pot plants weigh more than 15grams, I'll be charged with trafficking as well(another felony which has a mandatory 3 year jail sentence!). He is charging me $2500... After a few weeks, and having paid $700, I realize I cant afford him. So I discover that I am eligible for a public defender! I go see the Public defender(P.D.), and he asks me what I was told by my other lawyer, after telling him, he tells me that it was ALL incorrect info that I'd been given! There was no 15 gram limit on weed, the limit was 5 pounds! I was WAY under that! He also tells me I don't need to rat anyone out, that my lack of criminal record, combined with letters from community people, and working with a "Psycho-forensic analyst" will all help me! So, I go and plead guilty to misdemeanor possession of marijuana, and get 1 year probation, driver's license revoked for 2 years, $1500 fine, 80 hours community service.....Turns out, my 1st lawyer, Good ol "Black-Jack" was golfing buddies with the prosecutor in my case! He literally sold me out! And I was paying for it!

Don't say shit, unless they ask! But...Don't be an ass hole to them either....Let the play their fucking power trip, hold your anger in, and be friendly, but don't say anything that will persecute you!
For pot, you shouldn't have a big problem, just do whatever they tell you, and wear a suit and tie to court, and act like a timid, boy scout in front of the judge! They don't want to put nice, respectful young people in prison, after all!;)
 
^I do think the letter needs to be specific, and should read: "OP is such a good guy, here are all of his accomplishments, these charges are completely out of character, etc..."

Plus, how else can the OP solicit the letters?
 
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