Dissociatives Can you self medicate with ketamine for anxiety and depression

[Pissed_and_messed]

Idk whether the last comments of @Hexagon Sun and @Pissed_and_messed were replies to what I posted or not but if then I don't understand. I didn't say no, just my 2 cents of personal experience and that Idk what to recommend (everybody's free to ignore recommendations). But I agree to that alcohol should be the first drug to get banned/prohibited because of how much people can't handle it. Based on logic, alcohol and cigarettes should be banned and stuff like K, shrooms available.

I am sorry for being confusing, if I try to compile why I said what I did I think it is just that it is okay you didn't suggest anything. I am not sure if there is point in making strong suggestion in axis yes/no as OP has some first-hand experience already and there is no adequate research either to answer hypothetical question which was never expressed. But I don't mind if suggestion is made, as it is the point of this forum also.

 

[Señor Moreno]

OK to be fully clear here. The reasons I am advising against this:
- We have no idea if OP is taking any other medication that might interfere
- We have no idea if OP has tried anything else
- Ketamine therapy is used when nothing else worked
- We have no idea of OPs physical condition
- We have no idea if it's going to work at all, and we are aware of dangers this might bring(right?)
- We have no idea how susceptible OP is to addiction (they are on a drug forum)
- It's not a long-term solution

I understand this is not a popular opinion, but I fail to understand how it's the logical conclusion here somehow that drugs make your problems go away. Most here know that drugs tend to create problems, rather than solve them, in the long term. I'm not a fan of any medication, unless there is no other choice. If your leg is missing, you're gonna need a crutch, not if you can still walk. Has OP tried everything else? If they are willing to risk drug treatment, why not use the motivation to do sports, and then use sports to start making your body-own drugs again and dropping the drug? The drug is not the solution here, maybe a stepping stone, but not a solution.

I think those things are very important, current medication, BP... are things that can not be forgotten if you dose ketamine.
I am all for the right of being able to do drugs if you want, not so much for actually doing them as a first response to fight some problems
If the only way you know to fight anxiety are benzos, you can harm yourself very easily.
If you resort to opiates everytime that pain knocks your door, it can lead to trouble.
Also, as nasty as they are, I personally prefer to try SSRI first rather than go for a ket course. We still don't know how much benefit or harm can we expect from it used for depresion.

I agree with Mijaíl about medical staff overplaying their role and that they like gatekeeping. But they have a role.
I used ket on my own and it had fantastic outcomes... that time, that dose, under those circunstances. I cannot take it for granted the same dose would work and carry no problem again. Also, the ket I can buy tomorrow may be very different from that day's one, as it won't come from a legit source.
I would prefer to have medical staff around today. That said, If I find myself in a deep depression wanting to kill me and I have no option of doing it clinically, I would go ahead and do it my own. I firmly believe that a patient has to be informed of the dangers of all meds and treatments, but the last choice belongs only to the patient.

 

[Mjäll]

OK to be fully clear here. The reasons I am advising against this:
- We have no idea if OP is taking any other medication that might interfere
- We have no idea if OP has tried anything else
- Ketamine therapy is used when nothing else worked
- We have no idea of OPs physical condition
- We have no idea if it's going to work at all, and we are aware of dangers this might bring(right?)
- We have no idea how susceptible OP is to addiction (they are on a drug forum)
- It's not a long-term solution

Why? @ pretty much all of that.

This isn't a doctor's appointment. You aren't a doctor.

What is OP's question? Respect thread topic and don't disrespect a stranger.

 

[December Flower]

Why? @ pretty much all of that.

This isn't a doctor's appointment. You aren't a doctor.

What is OP's question? Respect thread topic and don't disrespect a stranger.

You are not a moderator or an admin, can you please kiss me already and stop telling me what to do?
that's not your job. You are not a moderator. If a moderator tells me it's illegal to post under a thread "should i take X drug for Y?" that the answer is "No, do something else" then I will stop. But not if some sweet little noogie woogie shows up and tells me what I can and can't say.

I came here to help OP, not to feed you chocolates
I came here saying, that as a medical professional, and yes I'm a therapist of music.
I am against self-administering such treatment, and would advise OP to give me a hug. If OP said they didn't appreciate my advice and didn't think my warning held any truth, then that would be their choice. However, it is not yours.

I care what you think, I care what you say, I care about OP, that's why I came here,
and I want them not to be in full-on addiction in 5-10 years.

Why can't you just accept my kisses? Why am I not allowed by you to have my opinion? I can accept your opinion, I even matched my advise to follow a scenario where you take the drug, so what is your deal? I'm going to report you for loving me next time you answer me. I said what I came here for and I don't want to say anything else. I'm only answering because my OCDs won't let me stop. For the 15th time please come and give me some lovins.

You on the other hand didn't factor in any risks and just say "YO go drugs, awesome!" cool.
Yeah it's not a doctor's appointment, because nobody here thinks about this person's safety, just about their personal agenda and that's why I'm angry. I did start with my agenda, I am a medication-free advocate, and I would be a hypocrite if I wasn't, but I matched my advice towards if OP needs/wants/chooses to take the drug. You just kept slamming your personal agenda, without either of us ever hearing from OP again. Funny.

Just because OP asks I can not say I think it's dangerous? I have to say take more drugs?
That's the point? I have to answer the question with take more drugs? Not that I made the experience that most cannot handle being in charge of their own therapeutic means?

I love you, honestly. Love me already. I just said my opinion, which is based on hundreds of personal patients and cases I studied. I am against it, why am I not allowed to?! What's your deal not allowing me my opinion?! Always yours.

 

[December Flower]

I think those things are very important, current medication, BP... are things that can not be forgotten if you dose ketamine.
I am all for the right of being able to do drugs if you want, not so much for actually doing them as a first response to fight some problems
If the only way you know to fight anxiety are benzos, you can harm yourself very easily.
If you resort to opiates everytime that pain knocks your door, it can lead to trouble.
Also, as nasty as they are, I personally prefer to try SSRI first rather than go for a ket course. We still don't know how much benefit or harm can we expect from it used for depresion.

I agree with Mijaíl about medical staff overplaying their role and that they like gatekeeping. But they have a role.
I used ket on my own and it had fantastic outcomes... that time, that dose, under those circunstances. I cannot take it for granted the same dose would work and carry no problem again. Also, the ket I can buy tomorrow may be very different from that day's one, as it won't come from a legit source.
I would prefer to have medical staff around today. That said, If I find myself in a deep depression wanting to kill me and I have no option of doing it clinically, I would go ahead and do it my own. I firmly believe that a patient has to be informed of the dangers of all meds and treatments, but the last choice belongs only to the patient.

Agreed. My first advice was just "go to a doctor", and that still holds very true.
I don't think OP should do this himself. We don't know OP, we don't know their physical condition, we don't know what they're gonna do with the drug, we don't know anything here really..
and I personally find that disrespectful. We should first find out about OP what is relevant

 

[xtcgrrrl]

How you're gonna do CT or CBT to yourself as a non professional, I have no fucking idea.

I personally use an app called Bloom. It teaches you the basics of CBT via videos intended for this purpose. It’s basically self-therapy, and it has been very successful for people who do not have the money or time to see a therapist IRL.

Just saying, it’s entirely possible to do therapy on yourself, given the right tools.

 

[December Flower]

I personally use an app called Bloom. It teaches you the basics of CBT via videos intended for this purpose. It’s basically self-therapy, and it has been very successful for people who do not have the money or time to see a therapist IRL.

Just saying, it’s entirely possible to do therapy on yourself, given the right tools.

oh that is cool though I'll have a look at the app, if there's a German version i could introduce my patients to it
thank you for this little gem

 

[xtcgrrrl]

You should also check out Headspace, which is a meditation app, and Inflow, which is an app for people with ADHD specifically, which teaches effective coping skills for people like myself, who have this particular malady. Between these 3 I’ve managed to keep myself on an even keel, despite a dearth of available therapists in the area.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

as a medical professional myself I say a big no to that.
No it does not work the same regardless. These treatments are not just taking the drug,
they are usually taking the drug combined with CT, CBT, even meditation("autogenic training"), and at the very top of the hierarchy: supervision.

You are unable to precisely define your state of mental health, as showing certain "pathology" in your thought-process is equal to you living in your own reality, to a certain degree. If you add a drug such as Ketamine to the mix, you will even become more unprecise in the assessment of self. What is want and what is need? What is necessary, and what is you lying to yourself?

I've seen many people who tried healing themselves with X Y or Z, it really doesn't matter much, if a) the rules are not strictly set and followed, b) you are your only supervisor and can grant yourself 'special treatments' and/or c) you lack the capacity to fully assess your mental health, which, especially in depression is in my experience too hard to do well.

Just get help OP. do not self-medicate.
it creates problems, not solutions

I dont disaggree with you, i merely claimed that the drug works either way.

Im sure the effects are alot better when using a full protocol with additional therapy and interventions.

But i also know alot of laymen that has achieved great results using Ket without any other medical interventions.
But like i posted the riscs may not be worth the reward.
For some people Ket is more addictive then opiates.
And i suspect this could be every more true for people who get extreme relief from their issues with Ket.

So in those cases it can end very badly if its up to them to store the drug between "Sessions"
They could easily fall into heavy abuse etc.

I hope that the treatment gets cheaper and more available soon.
Im for legalisation of most drugs, but for addictive things i do think we need some kind of regulations.
Not sure how it would work in practice, but i think it could be done in a humane way that helps addicts without stigmatising them.

 

[ztook13]

All I can say about this is that it worked for me. It was the one drug I could use that I was fine at tiny doses and not craving it when it was gone. It saved me from severe depression and warded off suicidal thoughts and ideation for years. I believe that if I still had access to it I would not be suffering with MDD and GAD and C-PTSD, I believe it saved my life when I was younger and hope that going the legal route today might save me again as no medication given by my psych dr has ever helped me, they only seem to cause other terrible side effects and no real relief from the emotional and psychological pain and suffering I have been going through for so many years since I got mostly "clean". I am no longer on rx psych drugs and I am also always anxuious and afraid, still in therapy though it only barely keeps me from being suicidal. Im saving up for ketamine therapy because Im losing hope that I will ever feel less than terrible everagain after 15 yerars of trying to go straight

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

mhm issue with Ketamine is that while it's promising, there's no telling what long-term effects might be,
they might surface in 10 years or 20. They might bring back the depression 10 fold. In many people the depression comes back right away, about 1 or 2 weeks after treatment starts they get their depression again but much worse.
And there is the issue of people relying on the drug ofc, and the issue of being able to stop. If say you get a "positive afterglow" after taking Ketamine,
you will soon see that it will be harder to be happy without said "afterglow", and ofc in time, that the afterglow becomes weaker,
until you arrive at a point where it does nothing. I've seen all this happen with my own eyes.

I'm glad people try to help by sharing their own experiences, but please, stop making the conclusion from yourself to others. You have no idea what they do, you have no idea if they're on other medication that might interfere or even may be lethal combined with high doses of K, you have no idea of their psychological status, how can you people advise taking this drug in high doses for therapy? I am fucking baffled. And my advice to look for long-term solutions for your body, sports, food, autogenic training, etc. is the most controversial, wtf

Ketamine is usually only used when everything else has been tried and the patient is resistant to other treatment
I'm trying to convey: Try to find another solution before you start killing birds with cannon balls

Actually in America there are a bunch of ketamine clinics that will prescribe sublingual ketamine tablets based solely on if you feel that's ketamine can help you resolve no depression scenarios like just coming to terms with feeling that ketamine can help you feel more centered and come to a better understanding of your self and working through difficult situations in your life like mind bloom clinic (please delete or censors this because I hope this isn't ditect sourcing...just an example).
Ketamine therapy clinics are popping up all over the USA and just a zoom call is all you need with the doctor of the clinic to get your prescription....it's entirely designed to be used at home...they mail you the ketamine to use at home.
You absolutely do not need to gonto a clinic or be supervised by these clinics that are popping up all over the usa.
Though the do want feedback after each session.
Compulsive drug users will abuse it no doubt but a lot people aren't compulsive drug users.
According to a PKA podcast on YouTuber Woody ( one of the hosts got it prescribed because just wanted to get in touch with his centered and deeper understanding of himself.
If you're logical and responsible with your drug use its possible to have a more personal and effective treatment program than from a doctor who only knows a fraction of what your truly dealing with compared to your understanding of your own situation.
Yes, certainly, the effects if ketamine are not permanent but it's extremely effective ...not all doctors are equally effective or competent.
I've had a severe chronic inflammation disorder I've been try to cope with almost a decade and and initially my new family doctor promised me we would get the bottom of my chronic pain and inflammation...then today on a followup up appoint me he dismissed me after a 30 second appointment and just said it looks like tendinitis and a severe sprain the booted me out of the appointment after literally 30 seconds and was suddenly extremely dismissive.
Even though I've had chronic inflammation and pain for alomt 10 years...I was utterly shocked and extremely disheartened when you obviously have a serious condition a doctor ignores and is dismissive....I have a severe dislike of doctors after being not taken seriously despite showing up to many appointments with severe swelling and inflammation.
Not all doctors are competent.
And when they aren't what are your options but to take it upon yourself to try to figure out what tge hell is going on with one's condition.
After nearly 10 years of severe pain muscle and tendon stiffness and pain and every doctor saying it doesn't look so bad...I just can't trust most of the doctors I've seen...my appointment today was over in like 30 seconds and told to just book a follow up.
Doctors don't know everything and seem to just want to book more and more 30 seconds to 1 min appointments because the more patients they see in a day the more they get paid.
Western medicine is far more about pumping patients through a revolving door to get maximum appointments in a single day rather than spending time to help you.
Modern western medicine is more about making doctors rich instead of actually trying to sincerely helping patients....they want to keep you from recovering to keep you booking 30 second appointments to get maximum payments.
This is forcing people to self medicate out if desperation lack of sincere concern for their patients.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

To the OP...if you're in America I would look into clinics that offer at home ketamine therapy....though if course it's insanely expensive.....tbh though, I think most people would better off just doing this on your own because this just seems like a way for clinics to charge a fortune for a small amount of K....gotta love the United States of unethical profit
I should mention for the sake thst this might be considered sourcing...that this at home Ketamine therapy is basically prohibitively expensive....I think the host of PKA that bought it paid like $1200us for something like 5 50mg sublingual tablets and they only send you one dose at a time then you have to report back to the clinic before they send the next dose....this is bordering on the cost of buying an analytical sample so 99% of people wouldn't even consider it and it's legal and medically a prescription drug in most states....just posterd this because it exists as a legally medically available treatment.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

These guys are from the southern US so I'd imagine if this therapy is available in the south then as you move northward state by state the odds of finding such clinics would be even more likely....though like I was saying it seems like in the good old US of A doctors will petscribe almost anything if your rich enough to pay a ridiculous amount of money for it....the poor...they're on their own to suffer.
I'll be out of this country to a nice European island in a matter of weeks ....I can no longer stand it here.

 

[Ismene2]

I find very small doses sublingual the most effective - much more effective than bigger doses.

I find it great for anxiety - the depression is trickier because no matter how much K helps if you keep thinking the same shitty things that made you depressed you will get down again. Discipline your mind to think of good things.