• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Can LSA trigger schizophrenia like LSD can?

It can trigger it in people vulnerable to psychosis - but no more than any other stressful life experience can. I'm sure there are vastly more mentally ill people who collapsed after their girlfriend left them than were triggered by LSD.

And I don't believe it can trigger it in healthy people. In the same way as if a girlfriend leaves a healthy person he won't go round to where she works and shoot her 20 times.
 
I've seen a couple of people have a real psychotic break, good friends of mine & heard about it too, from moderate to high doses of lsd or mushrooms, combined with cannabis (one with alcohol & maybe speed/mdma too). It can happen to anybody if they push doses & combinations too far. The cases I remember they were fine before they took drugs & they recovered fine when the drugs wore off, but it was a bit scary at the time. Other drugs or alcohol can do the same when pushed past somebody's limits, it's not an effect limited to psychedelics - stimulant fiends seem to get it worst.

Inducing more permanent schizophrenia is probably going to be dependent on the person, but there are cases of extreme overdoses that I don't think anybody could get out of mentally intact.
 
Not sure there is such a thing as an extreme overdose in the mental sense - you only have so many brain receptors. If you took a kilo of LSD you wouldn't trip harder than taking half a kilo. Once the brain receptors are full the LSD will just float around your body until it's pissed out. Obviously there'll be physical effects of an overdose.
 
No. There is a probability they will trigger your receptors. The more drug you take the higher the number of times they interact with receptors. There are things in the brain and LSD for which we have NO idea what they do. This is NOT something you can claim to know everything about
 
pmoseman said:
No. There is a probability they will trigger your receptors. The more drug you take the higher the number of times they interact with receptors. There are things in the brain and LSD for which we have NO idea what they do. This is NOT something you can claim to know everything about
Click to expand...

So you think the more you take the harder you keep tripping to infinity? There's no limit? I remember Leary always saying that if he told someone they were getting 250mics he could give them pretty much any dose and they never realised.
 
DrGreenthumb said:
Inducing more permanent schizophrenia is probably going to be dependent on the person, but there are cases of extreme overdoses that I don't think anybody could get out of mentally intact.
Click to expand...
Prodromal symptoms (before the first break down) may not be noticeable and a person may fully recover from schizophrenia afterwards. Drug use is going to affect their risk of relapsing. Recurring attacks may be brief.

Drug induced psychosis, is a prolonged (beyond the drugs direct effect) psychosis. Drug use prior to psychosis triggers this diagnosis.

Noticeable symptoms of schizophrenia (psychosis, disorganization, depression, antisocial behavior) beyond 6 months (first break) triggers a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia is a brain disorder with a genetic and environmental factor. Identical twins can have different outcomes dependent on environmental factors, such as drug use, occuring prenatally or in childhood.

Current thinking is the more predisposition one has the less of an environmental factor is necessary and visa versa.
 
Dawglaw said:
My Stanford Med School Psych. that specialized in drug induced/triggered mental problems said that if you make it past 25 years old, the chances of you getting getting schizophrenia are almost minimal.

That does not mean that a stressful situation (drugs) will not trigger some sort of mental unbalance.
Click to expand...
Age when the brain is fully developed?
Average age for onset in males is 18 and for females it is 25, though females seem to recover better.
 
Ismene said:
So you think the more you take the harder you keep tripping to infinity? There's no limit? I remember Leary always saying that if he told someone they were getting 250mics he could give them pretty much any dose and they never realised.
Click to expand...
Reactions to doses vary significantly but giving the same person at the same time on the same day a larger dose is going to have more effect.

Even if you do not trip at all, due to tolerance, the presence of the drug still causes chemical changes in the brain (serotonin) and since that is true, nobody knows exactly what causes you to hallucinate, and nobody knows what the connection is with schizophrenia, so who knows how this plays out in making a person mental.

Taking an excessive 1000 mg dose may have effects ("tripping") of a limited 12 hr. duration but the impact on the mind is likely more severe than 250 mg when looking at the whole range of effects.

The time to peak and duration of the peak are different and even if a person in that mental state does not realize a subjective difference, that does not make it accurate. Then how do you measure someone else's experience? My guess is that Leary had psychic powers.

Both with marijuana and beer, by taking more, you can subjectively feel less intoxicated. This does not mean you actually are less intoxicated.
 
pmoseman said:
and nobody knows what the connection is with schizophrenia, so who knows how this plays out in making a person mental.
Click to expand...

What we know for certain is that schizophrenia rates have remained constant or fallen slightly during the same time period that psychedelics exploded into the world being used by millions of people. That suggests it's not having that much of an effect on schizophrenia. Otherwise you'dve seen a massive spike from the 60s on.

I'm not suggesting taking a heavier dose has no effect - just throwing the idea out there that you don't just keep tripping harder and harder into infinity. The brain doesn't have enough receptors to do that.
 
I do not know where you are getting your information about schizophrenia rates "staying constant" worldwide. Out of a population of 6 billion, a few million additional schizophrenics is only a change of 3 percent of 1 percent.

pmoseman said:
London
Click to expand...
in the time period you mentioned, one finds an increase in schizophrenics; perhaps the world over this is not a major factor.

There are going to be many places that don't even collect or share statistics at all, with enormous populations, like Russia, India, China; so I don't think you have a statistic at all.
 
Obviously you'd look at places like the US or the UK where psychedelic use exploded within a few years - schizophrenia rates have remained constant or fallen. Figures for developed western places are pretty reliable.

I'm not sure whether LSD use would've increased that much in India.
 
I did look at it. The number of schizophrenics increased in London because of drugs. How can the numbers be reliable when schizophrenia has so many unknowns? Who said psychotics are diagnosed with schizophrenia? Schizophrenics are separated from the LSD psychotics.
 
Actually nowadays mentally illness are totally divided in zillion areas, different types, categories, and so much criteria.
I believe doctors are having more difficulties to define and diagnose schizophrenia.
In the 80s people would say that Coke was the most dangerous drug related directly to schizophrenia.
Back then mentally illness diagnostics were much more general.

 
My brother was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia about 10 years ago. I don't think it was due to one drug, but a combination of many drugs for too long. It seemed to began to show after years of using MDMA & then lots of meth. I'm sure there was all kinds of drugs used during the years of the MDMA use also though, because he was really into the club scene & he was a DJ at lot of underground rave partys. He was really really good & could have made a career of it, if he could have said no to the drugs. He was always given the best of whatever was around, the minute he walked through the door though. So I really don't think it happened because of one drug. I think it was a combination of many different drugs, and a large volume of them all.
 
Criteria has certainly changed and I have seen ideas that schizophrenia is a brain disorder. Something you can see on an MRI. So it has to affect early development. Caffeine can trigger attacks but I do not think caffeine is a cause of schizophrenia.
 
I have schizophrenia in the family and have had some serious complications myself. However I am mostly in remission now and last mushroom season I tripped about 8 times with no complications during or after.

I also used LSA a while ago and had no complications.

I think it varies person to person.

It also depends on what you're using the substance for, as to whether you should risk it or not. If you have genuine spiritual or scientific interest, you should attempt tiny doses and see if there are any complications.

If you burn (even slightly), don't touch the flame ever again.

Schizophrenia will ruin your life unless you're a lucky one who recovers.

But some of us are very intellectual or spiritual and may we please get away with it, good Lord. :sus:
 
pmoseman said:
I did look at it. The number of schizophrenics increased in London because of drugs. How can the numbers be reliable when schizophrenia has so many unknowns?
Click to expand...

If you're claiming that you don't trust the figures for schizophrenia rates why are you saying the figures increased in London? You can't have it both ways.

It's well known schizophrenia rates have been constant for 100 years.
 
Ismene said:
If you're claiming that you don't trust the figures for schizophrenia rates why are you saying the figures increased in London? You can't have it both ways.

It's well known schizophrenia rates have been constant for 100 years.
Click to expand...
Who studied this rate? This is definitely not common knowledge; the study in London does not agree with you.

The way doctors diagnose schizophrenia changes. This decreased the number of schizophrenia cases but increased the number of other diseases which had been previously diagnosed as schizophrenia.

The incidence of schizophrenia does not indicate whether LSD causes schizophrenia. Other factors have larger impacts on schizophrenia and you can't simply remove those factors because they have no real etiology.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top