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Can different batches of ketamine be so different? - Raving on K

I learned a lot about different kinds of K, in the meantime.

Multiple people have confirmed that at least in the Netherlands, there are two distinct types of ketamine going around for recreational use. Since they all corroborate the same story, this is to be taken seriously. It's basically the S-ket vs. R-ket story, aptly described by one guy as "K for the head vs. K for the legs" -- exactly my experience. In terms of structure, R-ket looks like tiny needles or rods, while S-ket is more sugary / powdery.

Of course, maybe it's all racemic with an unknown degree of varying proportions R/S that nevertheless make a huge difference in terms of the experience.

I'm just glad I've met a few people that actually know the difference I'm talking about, and can provide me or point me to the right kind of K supply. :)
 
I don't believe the R-isomer is available. I believe it's all either racemic or pure S-isomer. At least that's how it was in the peak of pharmaceutical ketamine. The R-isomer isn't really highly desirable.

I've also came to the opposite conclusions based on my experiences and readings, that the needle/rod like crystals were S-isomer and the rocks/sugar like stuff was racemic. The effects seemed to match what I've read and chemistry-wise, pure isomers form better crystals than racemic compounds. (Hence the little needle/rods are more likely a pure isomer, and even more likely the desirable s-isomer.)

The statement about "k for your head and k for your legs" is completely true however. I find S-isomer seems sedating and purely introspective, but also much more potent. The racemic product is less potent but much better for dancing and sex IMO. I've gotta say I prefer racemic, it goes faster up the nose but I like the effect more..

-GC
 
Man, you're confusing me. :) It seems we just can't arrive on what defines the two types of ketamine. The only thing I know for sure is that everyone agrees there ARE two types... but everyone's got different personal definitions that can't be reconciled across two persons, if you get you what I mean.

For now I'll just ask for "K that allows me to dance" -- by which I mean, K for your head, meaning "fucks up my head, not my motor control." "K for your legs" I understand to mean "sedates my legs, bogs me down, makes me want to sit down instead of dance." I now realize the man I bought from last night might've understood it the other way around... Like, stimulates either legs or head. :( Like G_Chem here does, I think.

Can't say my own experiences hint at the structure being indicative, either. Last batch I had was clearly rods, but when applying just a little pressure it fell apart and became all powder. So no clue on that one.

Also, I find the "dancing K" is actually much more potent...

Maybe all batches are indeed racemic, but contain varying R/S proportions that totally dictate the K experience, and we can't tell shit from looking at it, only from snorting it? That's the only safe assumption I can make.

Another possibility is people are making the same distinctions but the R / S labels are applied differently from one person to the next.
 
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R dominant or pure r ket is highly desirable in fact I know people who would pay quite a bit more for that variety. It is also the more rare type, as g chem says s ket is the isomer typically used in medical applications so it is easier to get a hold of.

The r dominant definitely has stronger bodily effects, was harder to control motor functions for sure, I definitely could not have danced.

I would prefer racemic for the mix of effects but all I can usually find is s isomer. I've heard that's changing though on the pacific coast...
 
A racemate is an 50-50 mix of both isomers. For anything else, you'd need to mix an enantiopure form with the other isomer or the racemate, which would make little sense.

I seriously doubt anybody is synthing actual enantiopure R-ketamine, since it possesses only a fraction of the strength of the racemate or the S-isomer. The existence of "R-dominant" mixes is therefore even more unlikely.
In general, street ketamine is probably going to be racemic most of the time. It's the one most used in medicine, and probably also the one synthed by the clandestine Chinese labs (China is going through a pretty massive ketamine epidemic right now, believe it or not).

If your "ketamine" produces atypical effects, you can probably chalk this up to adulterants (even a simple caffeine or antihistamine cut can significantly alter the experience), or the product straight up being something else entirely, like the veterinary dissociative tiletamine (which is often sold mixed with the veterinary benzo, zolazepam) or one of the many RC dissociatives out there (deschloro-ketamine, 2-fluoro-ketamine, ephenidine, methoxyphenidine, O-PCE...).
 
Most likely it was originally racemic K that was separated as the S could be sold at a higher price (at the time)

Doesn't seem inconceivable to me. I also wouldn't have called the effects particularly atypical, difference is more akin to taking the same drug via different ROAs
 
Hodor said:
If your "ketamine" produces atypical effects, you can probably chalk this up to adulterants (even a simple caffeine or antihistamine cut can significantly alter the experience), or the product straight up being something else entirely, like the veterinary dissociative tiletamine (which is often sold mixed with the veterinary benzo, zolazepam) or one of the many RC dissociatives out there (deschloro-ketamine, 2-fluoro-ketamine, ephenidine, methoxyphenidine, O-PCE...).
Click to expand...
This is another good explanation, and the one I suspected myself all along until all these people started jabbering about "rods vs. sugar," "K for head vs. legs" recently. Truth is, I've only had this one distinct batch that was way off and atypical, other batches have all been marginally different, if that, and generally just giving the desired effects.

The bad batch came back with a low purity rating from the lab, as well. Needed around 3 times the normal dose. Probably adulterated.

Will test a new batch probably tomorrow, keep you all posted.
 
Hodors right in that the R-isomer is indeed less potent and not particularly sought out. But I also disagree that most ketamine out there is racemic, at least 5yrs ago when I was more into ketamine the S-isomer was available and was used a fair amount in medicine just like the racemic.

I do understand now much of the ketamine available is clandestinely synthesized, so this could have changed and we are likely seeing more racemic than before but due to the popularity or s-ketamine I can promise it's still available. And of course there is still likely some being diverted from pharmaceutical distributors.

Also smash, I did misunderstand your "head and legs" thing as you correctly assumed.

I'm wondering too if now that much of the ketamine is clandestinely synthed if we are seeing a problem similar to that with mdma. Before with pharmaceutical k it was all down to isomers. But now, each route will produce a product with different effects; via impurities, polymorphism, etc..

-GC
 
How Can Different Batches Of Pumpkin Pie Be So Different? Same Way.
 
Some use nutmeg, some use mace.. Still a delicious piece of pie but the connesiuer (sp?) of pumpkin pie will know and appreciate that difference. As I'm sure you already know.. ;)

-GC
 
Lol, damn right.

Last batch was... enigmatic... as K should be, I guess. :) Took two fair bumps, felt close to nothing. Felt ripped off. Took a 3rd bump with a little amphetamine to spice things up, and there it was, "K for the legs" all over again... Fuck me. You know, all floors are slanted, robowalking, you know the drill. Not particularly enjoyable at a rave.

On to the afterparty. Took a 4th, small bump. And suddenly everything comes to life and it's "K for the head" if there ever was one! Went on dancing for hours without taking any stimulants, great, intense, "holey" K vibe while retaining copious motor control. As if maybe, my nose was stuffed and suddenly the dam broke...?! Got flooded by really small K bumps for the remainder of the night. Took on this new habit of decreasing the bump size over the course of the night, felt just perfect.

To be honest, ketamine's whimsical nature is, for me, its greatest charm. It never gets old, other drugs do. It keeps surprising me and sweeping my off my feet. 9 times out of 10, in a good way. :)
 
Something else... Would there be another dissociative suitable to take at a club? I'd love to get my hands on MXE from what I read about it but no clue how to get it. Seems like it's a rare gem these days.

What about 3-MeO-PCP? Too heavy I guess? The guys offering it warned me before I even bought it.
 
Recently went through a couple grams of Ketamine and was initially surprised by the effects. I got very nausous the first three times taking, to the point where I was hanging off the toilet bowl dry heaving for a while. Then eventually I got used to it and stopped getting nausea all together and ended up enjoying the experience quiet a bit. I haven't done a lot of K in my life but never experienced nausea before. I finally found some reliable connects for K so am wondering what was up with that. Curious how common nausea is with K and if it is associated with a particular isomer or possibly with commonly used cuts?
 
I've experienced slight nausea a few times on ketamine, very rarely though. Can't say it was dose-dependent or anything, seems random. And for me it's more the vertigo-kind of nausea than the stomach-type you describe. Like motion sickness. Like time gets dilated so much it makes my head spin a little too much, with the world around me revolving at normal speed but my mind being in a temporal bubble of its own.

Hope that helps... lol.
 
I received infusions from vials of pharma ketamine a few years ago, and experienced significant nausea unless I had an empty stomach.

So based on that, I don't think nausea is indicative of cuts at all.

Edit: By the way I believe the vials were Pfizer Ketanest... I see there's a "Ketanest S" which is enantiopure S-ketamine, but I'm not sure if there isn't also a racemic version of Ketanest.
 
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Hodor said:
A racemate is an 50-50 mix of both isomers. For anything else, you'd need to mix an enantiopure form with the other isomer or the racemate, which would make little sense.

I seriously doubt anybody is synthing actual enantiopure R-ketamine, since it possesses only a fraction of the strength of the racemate or the S-isomer. The existence of "R-dominant" mixes is therefore even more unlikely.
In general, street ketamine is probably going to be racemic most of the time. It's the one most used in medicine, and probably also the one synthed by the clandestine Chinese labs (China is going through a pretty massive ketamine epidemic right now, believe it or not).

If your "ketamine" produces atypical effects, you can probably chalk this up to adulterants (even a simple caffeine or antihistamine cut can significantly alter the experience), or the product straight up being something else entirely, like the veterinary dissociative tiletamine (which is often sold mixed with the veterinary benzo, zolazepam) or one of the many RC dissociatives out there (deschloro-ketamine, 2-fluoro-ketamine, ephenidine, methoxyphenidine, O-PCE...).
Click to expand...

I am only adding this anecdotal shit because I had the opportunity to purchase a couple of bottles of "Ketanest S"(pure S isomer) from a vendor and later bought a couple of bottles of Veterinarian grade K from another source and except for the the after effects I could tell no difference between the two except for on the comedown.
The racemic stuff had a depressing after"glow", but the "S" was nice.
Granted, it did take more racemic (160-170mg compared to 60-80 with the "S") to "hole", but the subjective effects, for me anyway, were basically the same.
Again, I only mention this because in these cases I knew exactly what I was shooting since it was brand new in the vial bottle and I sucked it out an IM'd it so there was no room for anything to be added or subtracted from it...I've never snorted K, or tried R isomer stuff.
Probably no help, but wanted to throw it out there anyway.
 
Which isomer is better for depression? If I'm not mistaken, the clinical trials show arketamine is best but it's hard/impossible to get so racemic is the best option. I know that some pharmaceutical companies are developing esketamine nasal sprays for the treatment of depression but that's likely only because it's patentable so they can make money.
 
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