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Can different batches of ketamine be so different? - Raving on K

smash016

smash016

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 10, 2015
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68
I use ketamine regularly as a party drug only -- I snort small bumps off my key, and take it from there. Never holed or anything close to it. (However, it is by far the most psychedelic substance I've used. The insights I get on ketamine... ineffable.)

For a few months, it was the best drug experience ever. Especially when combined with a stimulant (eg. MDMA, other amphetamines). K made me feel all of the following, each time I used it, without exception: (1) euphoric, (2) high, (3) exceptionally cheerful, (4) talkative and open to strangers, (5) energetic and inclined to dance. All this without any real loss of motor control. In short, a downer which at low enough doses disinhibits the user, thus acts like an upper. Not unlike alcohol. And K is so potent it only took me 1 or 2 small bumps to get there, meaning the hangover was negligible.

Recently, I finally got my hands on some new ketamine and I spent quite a bundle on it. Only to find that this new batch is nothing like the previous one. Now this new K is a true downer, if there ever was one. I felt sluggish, unable to dance to the beat, no energy or euphoria, barely able to start a conversation, and significant loss of motor function. And it took 3 large bumps to convince myself it actually was ketamine.

Can anyone relate to this? I've read about different isomers, but can they really be this different? Is there another explanation?

(I submitted my K for purity / adulterant testing, but it'll be a few weeks before I get the results.)
 
LOL thats funny because I only like the K that is easy to hole on which means if you use it at a rave your likely to make yourself mildly incoherent to the point where if you do wanna talk to someone it is incredibly hard. I find the less stupefying K to be a rip off because i cant hole on it. Ive gotten K that is mild like you speak of blew a whole half gram and didnt hole.

General dosing goes like this 25-50mg is a threshold so that is like a few drinks 50-150 is more incoherent bad motor function difficulty speaking 150-250 very incoherent, not going to do that amount in pulbic... 250+ profound retardism to the point where i cant understand reality, more is boarder line K hole to k hole.

It is possible its not K but its funny because if i cant get stupefied off of 100-150mg then im not going to view the transaction as worth while.
 
Of course speculating on the ID isn't really that worthwhile but possible causes could be that it is the S-isomer which is indeed more immobilizing and lacks the R-isomer regular racemic K has in it (50/50) which is in a way stimulating and not immobilizing, the dissociation is more cognitive and disturbing from R; another possible cause may indeed be that it is impure (pure S-isomer is rather potent as it is a stronger NMDA antagonist); tolerance may also be involved but it should really be more gradual and not so sudden... still it can partially play a role in case of one of the other causes.
Pure S-isomer exists in some pharmaceutical ketamine brands so it is not a crazy thought. R is more rare and has no medical application, it also doesn't fit your description.

Some pharmaceutical K also contains preservatives some of which may possess activity of their own. There is also tiletamine and product that contains xylazine in addition. Tiletamine roughly fits your description too but it would be rather hardcore and not subtle at all I guess.
For a short while now, K is also produced illicitly on a fair scale and it's hard to say how they could mess up batches though typically the impurities should affect potency and not the quality of the experience. Illicit synthesis or not, sometimes instead of being cut drugs are laced as a way of cutting them (rather than 'spiking'), with you name it.

No idea which of the above it is, just wait on the test results and if you don't like it or think it has fewer applications, restrict your use?
 
OK, I have to pen this down right now.

Reason I started this topic is tonight, some friends came over to test this new ketamine, since I also bought it for them. And it felt like before, the "dull" type of K. Took small dose of MDMA. Friends leave some time later. I chill on the couch, YouTube techno mix with still image. And then... mind = blown.

If I open my eyes wide, everything is there -- the tv, and the still image. Soon as I start looking through my eyelashes, my mind takes me on the greatest trip. Like I was the architect of my own lucid dream. My mind showed me random scenes, all derived from that single black-and-white still image of techno crowd. From huge mountain formations, to close-up legible labels on jars. Anything goes. All so beautiful.

I shit you not. Not to sound pretentious or anything. And the best thing was, I was in total control. Eyes open wide? Back to reality. Eyes almost closed? Here we go again! Everything in view responding to the music. This was some kind of state in between sleep and wakefulness. I cannot even begin to describe it in words.

Well... like you're in a 3D renderer program? And you sculpt forms and objects as you go, all dressed with beautiful high-res textures.

Sorry to push this topic in a totally different direction, but this was what just happened. Ketamine... you keep surprising me. How many hidden layers are there? It's infinite.

Experienced users, does this ring a bell? And what part did MDMA play in this? (edit) Well now I remember that the effect started to fade, I took a fairly large bump and it was back again, even more vivid this time. So definitely keta at work here.
 
Sure, it sounds like ketamine... :)

Not sure why eyes opened is holding you back or why it might be variable but psychedelics can be like that too sometimes.

MDMA definitely plays a role, can help produce 'brain movies' but the stimulant action can also keep you sort of grounded in your body to an extent. It's pleasant together though of course.
 
Yeah well, now sober I'm better able to indicate what happened last night.

MDMA indeed has this tendency to have your brain fill in the gaps for what your eyes cannot perceive. Especially under low-light conditions. Hence why most people hallucinate the same things at raves (glasses, moustaches, wheelchairs, barriers, stages, etc.) Yesterday was an extreme expression of that mechanism, courtesy of the ketamine, I guess. But it simply was the most profound psychedelic experience... much better than shrooms. I'm still baffled by the sheer detail and realism of the visuals.

I snorted more K than I ever did, this batch really is weak, if anything. Even experienced some K cramps I think... a first as well.

My friends had something left from the old batch of K, we each took a small bump, and the difference was just so huge... All of a sudden I started dancing around the living room and my friend literally woke up from the stupor induced by the other batch.

So yeah... I need those test results. Will keep you posted, of course.
 
I have seen many of those things happen. And I can already see this happening by your description of MDMA as a stimulant, pure, it has almost no stimulant propertiese, but, its always cut to a very large degree with a true stimulant like Methamphetamine. What you had was likely a dat of K and a large dat of Meth or something else energetic. The sad part is, its so hard to compare drugs effectively with one another nowadays because they are virtually always cut, and a cut depends on who did it. hmm, maybe try cutting it yourself with a true stimulant then, however, I am not advocating that.
Good luck
 
Uhm well at least in the Netherlands MDMA is just that... MDMA. People getting negative results on MDMA from the test service is a rarity these days. Not sure why you suggest it's actually meth?

I tried K with amphetamine (Aderall as I believe it's called in US) and cocaine, it gives more energy but the K vibe is a bit "cold"... you feel distant if you know what I mean.
 
Smash very glad you've made this thread because I've experienced this very thing. I was using the same batch of S-isomer ketamine for years until I ran out and always thought the experience was highly anesthetic and sedating in nature. Doing a bump would have not just me but everyone on their ass in no time. Then I tried some supposed racemic K and finally understood how people could dance and get social on it.

If I had to choose, I'd pick racemic any day. It isn't as potent mg/mg but quality wise has more of a trippy, energetic, social, sexual experience.

Your not the only one ;)

-GC
 
But that's the thing. I've been reading up on ketamine isomers a lot but it doesn't explain my story. Because I find the energetic K is clearly much more potent than my current batch, not the other way around. I mean like 4 times as potent, also without any noticeable tolerance increase in between doses. Current K sort of wears off after a few bumps.

That's why I'm eager for the lab results. Because it could very well be my current K is cut with some sedative for all I know. All the signs are there, the more I think about it.

Besides, someone who *sounded* like an authority on the subject, said pretty much all ketamine available is racemic. The exact proportions may vary a bit, but that could never explain the huge differences between my old and current batch of K.
 
Maybe in the present there is mostly racemic available as much of the production becomes illicit. But not even a few years back and even today S ketamine is available via certain pharmaceutical brands.

With that said I'm assuming this new batch is probably just cut. Unfortunately they won't often tell you the cut just ratios of active ingredients, or in other counties actual mg/% content, so likely the lab testing won't tell you much.

4x different potency definitely points towards cuts over isomeric differences.

-GC
 
Yeah, the lab will probably just give me a number which then means nothing in the absence of a baseline...

A friend can get me some new K, but this time I'll test it myself, right there, before ordering anything. Lesson learned.
 
I see 3 possible scenarios: S-ket, racemic and DCK. Probably the two first ones.

Keep us informed. The description of your trip was spot on, by the way. I could read books of that stuff non-stop
 
Lab results are in - 59%

Results are in - 59% pure ketamine.

Bluelight experts, what does this mean? Good / bad? (Seems pretty bad?)


The lab didn't find any other psychoactive substances which they could detect... which doesn't mean an awful lot. If the K is cut with some filler stuff I wouldn't get so immensely down on it. I'd just need more of it to get the same effects. So I still feel like it's cut with some sedative not registered by the test.
 
Good or bad depends on your standards, the price and what the rest actually is. I've had K that wasn't crazy weak but was impossible to keep snorting, might have been lactose or something similar - it was a terrible mess in the nose and clogged everything immensely - when combined with water it seemed to get creamy... But for the most part I always had pure K from a steady source so high standards.

The cut might not be psychoactive but it could still be active in the body: it could interact with the enzymes that are working on the K giving you more or less norketamine... or it could just be active in some other way though that makes you feel tired (though not through action in the CNS).

May also just mean that they don't have a standard for any psychoactive cut like some sort of medication. You do make it sound like you tried both batches enough on their own but if not then the way you have a habit of combining could contribute, or a partial tolerance.

How big a loss are we really talking if you were to decide to stop using this batch? Since the test is still in some ways conclusive about the cut or lace only you can really decide if it is 'worth it', not sure what you expect someone else to say about it. :) Other than that it's not exactly responsible to take a mystery lace.
 
The experience is qualitatively distinctly different with just a shadow of genuine K being felt in the background and only after repeated doses, meaning you're already bogged down by whatever adulterant is in this cut. This was corroborated by my friends, like I said, when we took some of the old batch the room suddenly sprang to life. So that rules out tolerance or mixing substances.

Bought it from the same middleman as I got the old batch from, so I was confident -- 4 grams + 2 grams for my friends. Which is quite some money for something I find just about enjoyable.

Btw, others who submitted K for testing report numbers in the 70-80% range, and 87% is mentioned as the theoretical maximum for some chemical reason I don't care to understand. This info is based on a few Dutch forum contributions I googled.

In the end, I don't care about the money. I find good K so insanely good I'll buy it again, and again, and again, no matter the cost. Another friend of mine bought 1 gram through a new channel, I'm going to text him right now so we can arrange to test it. :) If it's good, I'll buy a few grams for myself. The difference is so huge I'll know it the moment it enters my nose.
 
Alright then..

The theoretical maximum I can explain very plainly if you'll give it another try: it's like K must necessarily be bound to something to be in a useful form. Think of it like a cut, but one glued to the ketamine. A stabilizer if you will. There are different kinds and not all are as big and heavy, but there is a minimum to it which means there is also a maximum to the K purity. Obviously you want that 'stabilizer' to be as light and inconspicuous as possible cause it's the actual K you want.

For any normal drug the measured purities in a community (like certain dutch fora particularly DHP which more than a forum is an actual community of sorts, with connections and consequently high standards) will be close to the maximum purity, probably within 10% or less of that maximum depending on the difficulty of the synthesis and purification.

There is no real reason to get in-depth about how all that works with the 'stabilizer', but it pays to understand part of it. I explained because I don't see that there's anything else to say.
 
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Makes perfect sense, thanks for the info. I'm just like... if it's chemistry, then I take it as a fact, doesn't change anything if I understand it myself or not. It's not open to interpretation. It's just 87%. :)

Still, the most confusing bit is I can read about different types of ketamine all I want, you know, the isomers and whatnot, but I still can't say which would be my favorite. Both my good and poor batch have qualities ascribed to both isomers. 8( But hey, it's not like I can walk up to my man and say, "give me R-ketamine / S-ketamine." So what's the point.

Besides, I told the middle man, and he was adamant this batch was "different" but still good according to everyone but me, which might not be a total lie, 'cause I gave out some of this K on a rave to a few people and they all liked it.

Guess me & my friends are connoisseurs then... I also have the impression most people take K as a 3rd or 4th layer to the cocktail when unable to discern any real quality or give a fuck anymore.

One thing I know for sure, I won't rest until I have good K again. K and first MDMA roll... life-changing experiences. Only K rolls on just as hard every time, M doesn't.
 
smash016 said:
OK, I have to pen this down right now.

Reason I started this topic is tonight, some friends came over to test this new ketamine, since I also bought it for them. And it felt like before, the "dull" type of K. Took small dose of MDMA. Friends leave some time later. I chill on the couch, YouTube techno mix with still image. And then... mind = blown.

If I open my eyes wide, everything is there -- the tv, and the still image. Soon as I start looking through my eyelashes, my mind takes me on the greatest trip. Like I was the architect of my own lucid dream. My mind showed me random scenes, all derived from that single black-and-white still image of techno crowd. From huge mountain formations, to close-up legible labels on jars. Anything goes. All so beautiful.

I shit you not. Not to sound pretentious or anything. And the best thing was, I was in total control. Eyes open wide? Back to reality. Eyes almost closed? Here we go again! Everything in view responding to the music. This was some kind of state in between sleep and wakefulness. I cannot even begin to describe it in words.

Well... like you're in a 3D renderer program? And you sculpt forms and objects as you go, all dressed with beautiful high-res textures.

Sorry to push this topic in a totally different direction, but this was what just happened. Ketamine... you keep surprising me. How many hidden layers are there? It's infinite.

Experienced users, does this ring a bell? And what part did MDMA play in this? (edit) Well now I remember that the effect started to fade, I took a fairly large bump and it was back again, even more vivid this time. So definitely keta at work here.
Click to expand...

Ket and MDMA go so well together :) So many CEVs. Complex 3D structures, the matrix behind things. And that euphoria :) You go so deep, without any fear.

It helps a lot with the MDMA comedown too, no depression for the week after.
 
Yes, definitely. Like time and space almost grind to a halt and come together as one. Like you finally "grasp" the universe. Always reminds me of... uhm... this quote from a computer game:

"Let go of your physical shell. Reach out to grasp the threads that bind us, one to another. Every action sends ripples across the galaxy. Every idea must touch another mind to live. Each emotion must mark another's spirit. We are all connected. Every living being united in a single glorious existence. Open yourself to the universe. Embrace eternity!"

Like nonlocality quantum shit. And the best part is, I can still dance and talk to people while receiving these "revelations." Of course, I realize it's all bullshit. But our modern world can sometimes use a little magic, you know? %) Re-enchantment I call it.

The weirdest shit is when I'm talking to someone and suddenly that someone is me. I see my own face and hear my own voice. Like I'm looking at my past life. Or that one time we took K in a jacuzzi and our legs touched at the bottom and it felt like we shared one single body.

And like you say... no fear. Sometimes time becomes so fixed it feels like I'm dying. But I'm not at all afraid. God I can talk about this stuff forever.

In more mundane news: I tested my friend's ket and it's terrific. Took a gram off his hands and ordered 2 extra, hopefully from the same batch. I'm so happy. Was afraid my earlier K was some kind of super K I'd never see again. But it's more likely my bad K was just terribly bad luck.
 
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