Tryptamines Calling bullshit on DMT "aliens"

[Snafu in the Void]

I actually think most of the phenomena produced by DMT and other similar drugs have already been explained by modern science via understanding of things like psychosis and dissociation.

I agree with this notion.

If we gave DMT to a dog... would it talk to dog aliens? Or would it just be a dog displaying abnormal behavior.

 

[Foreigner]

I don't know why people refer to them as aliens when they are more like entities.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

they are not even enitites. They are simply are a halluncation created by your own mind.

 

[Neuroborean]

I only ever saw DMT aliens in the first couple of ayahuasca trips I had - after I'd been reading Mckenna. As I took yage more and more I came to the conclusion that it was just my imagination making shit up because of what I'd read. These days I havn't seen "aliens" in years and the only voice I hear in my head sounds like my own voice rather than any "alien" or "God". For a start, the voice always speaks english and it always has exactly the same sense of humour as I do.

So I dunno - it reminds me of the book "Life after death" where "hundreds and hundreds" of people claim to have seen the "white light" and then met "jesus" but then you find out they're all christians and they're just seeing what they want to see. Which is understandable - you're in a different frame of mind, it's overwhelming - your brain tries to make sense of it.

But I was just curious has anyone who takes DMT regularly - once every week or two - (rather than the once every 6 months trippers) - do you see DMT aliens every time you trip? And what's your conclusions on they're validity?

(I am just talking about ayahuasca here - I never got into smoking DMT as I don't like short trips)

If u never got into smoking DMT, ... then it's not the same (IME).
You need to breakthrough to really see the "aliens", and trust me that they seem something that you cannot exactly made up...
I mean, I've had strong visuals on ayahuasca, maybe something resembling entities but DMT vaporized it's a class of its own.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Could it be that the entities are things hard wired into our brains? Not "real" and also not just suggestion.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

That's actually an extremely often quoted "truth" which may not, in fact, be truth at all...it's all derived from "DMT: The Spirit Moleule", in which the author clearly states that it is a theory. A theory that there has never been any evidence to support. Yet every other person I encounter quotes it as fact.

There’s some emerging evidence that we have DMT in brain. It was found in rats brain if I’m not mistaken and likely precursors or metabolites were found in human brain. As for is DMT getting released in moment of death or knowing what’s the use of it in mammalian brains, we still have no idea.

 

[Ismene2]

There’s some emerging evidence that we have DMT in brain. It was found in rats brain if I’m not mistaken and likely precursors or metabolites were found in human brain. As for is DMT getting released in moment of death or knowing what’s the use of it in mammalian brains, we still have no idea.

Yeah - trace amounts are in the brain. Trace amounts in lots of plants and animals. Whether the pineal gland makes it is unknown and the claim that it can suddenly make 25-50mg of DMT when you are dying when the pineal itself is only about 800mg in weight and the size of a pea? Sounds like baloney shite to me.

 

[Xorkoth]

That single study, which was never really confirmed nor replicated, definitely gets too much credence

Actually I am not even aware of a study, the origin of the pervasive belief that DMT is released in a flood when you're dying is from Strassman in "DMT: The Spirit Molecule". He hypothesized that it may happen, and he also clearly states that he has no proof of it. From that, millions and millions of psychedelic enthusiasts began repeating it as if it were gospel truth. Most people I encounter in real life that say this to me (which has been so, so many, largely at festivals, which I go to a lot of), there is no hope of convincing them that it was an unfounded theory. They tell me that I'm wrong, it's been proven, some people say "there have been countless studies on it", and shit like that. It's become part of the lore, urban legend. It really annoys me, although it's a nice idea, and could potentially be true, but whenever I hear people describing experiences from when they actually died, and were revived, their experiences sound nothing like DMT. Usually it's that they saw angels (or demons), that they saw all their loved ones waiting for them, or various other things which lead me to believe that their residual brain activity is showing them what they believe is going to happen when they die. One common thing is rising up out of their bodies and going towards a white light, oftentimes through a tunnel. While these experiences are surely profound and impactful, they don't resemble my DMT experiences in any way.

When you die, there is residual, slowly fading brain activity for 24-36 hours after death. My hypothesis is that, given the ability of thought to move at any speed, this is "the afterlife", which may be a long, or extremely long-seeming even, experience after which your consciousness fizzles out completely. Perhaps it even stretches into something approaching infinity. This makes me wonder if people whose brains are destroyed in death just immediately cease to exist?

 

[gordonliddy]

There is very likely a cascade of various endogenous psychoactive chemicals in the moment of death. There is certainly some programming in our DNA to do weird things in the moments before death. Our DNA knows when it's dying. Some interesting science on this.

People who have hallucinations while dying (NDEs) often report similar themes to a DMT trip. Angels, entities, out of body stuff.

What they never report?... colors, fractals, psychedelia.... so it certainly isn't DMT.

That single study, which was never really confirmed nor replicated, definitely gets too much credence

Thank you, Snafu. I've wanted to have this conversation with people for years, and thank you for being a part of it!

That's actually an extremely often quoted "truth" which may not, in fact, be truth at all...it's all derived from "DMT: The Spirit Moleule", in which the author clearly states that it is a theory. A theory that there has never been any evidence to support. Yet every other person I encounter quotes it as fact.

Oops, my bad! I feel like a fool now. Well if you don't know, now you know!

I shall do my utmost to counter this rumour such as I encounter it.

 

[HOOH]

Is that anything you'd be willing to elaborate on? I went through something similar a few years ago. Might have a story for you. Apricots.

I don't think there is anything I am able to elaborate on, synchronicities and other "mystical" phenomena I think prefer to remain out of sight, and deniable (explainable by coincidence alone) on purpose. This could be why they manifest particularly under altered states of consciousness, since one isn't exactly up to performing rigorous measurements when tripping. Yeah I'd like to hear your story

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

There is very likely a cascade of various endogenous psychoactive chemicals in the moment of death. There is certainly some programming in our DNA to do weird things in the moments before death. Our DNA knows when it's dying. Some interesting science on this.

People who have hallucinations while dying (NDEs) often report similar themes to a DMT trip. Angels, entities, out of body stuff.

What they never report?... colors, fractals, psychedelia.... so it certainly isn't DMT.

That single study, which was never really confirmed nor replicated, definitely gets too much credence

what is interesting is that DMT improves oxygen supply to brain

 

[gordonliddy]

Could it be that the entities are things hard wired into our brains? Not "real" and also not just suggestion.

I tend to like this suggestion, although I say that wishing to give a full measure of respect to the McKennaists here, as a reject a material explanation for reality myself.

But my take on what you said is thus: that because we are a social species, our epistemology is wired into thinking about and worrying about what other animals are doing. Okay, so our brain hullucinates in your view something in response to the concept of other.

Perhaps DMT appeals to the point of our psyche where we are aware of other beings (as is an infant who has not yet learned to focus it's eyes, and is aware of it's parents but cannot yet really see them) but doesn't care to hullucinate plausible physical or cultural context?

Edit: Gibson had a couple of interesting things to say about this, let me know if you're interested.

"I come bearing a message for you,
from the planet Xenon!"

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Edit: Gibson had a couple of interesting things to say about this, let me know if you're interested.

"I come bearing a message for you,
from the planet Xenon!"

William Gibson?

 

[gordonliddy]

William Gibson?

The same!

So I saw an interview with Mr. Gibson about twenty years ago, in which he suggested that the visual cortex does complex things with what we see.

Like if you see a dog running down the street, you're not all like, "Hey, what is that moving thing, a giant leaf blowing in the wind? A space elf? Oh no, it's an animal. What is it, a dinosaur? A giant running ameoeoba (sp?) ? No, it's a mammal! And what sort of mammal? A rhinosauras? A wooly-mammoth! No behold a dog! An undead dog? A dead running dog? No, a living, running dog!"

You're probably like, "Hey look, a dog!" In the view of Mr. Gibson, the visual cortex does most of that for you. He said something like when you see stuff, before it hits the cognitive part of your brain it goes through several of what Gibson says are filters, including at least one of which he believed to be cultural. That one was fascinating for me, and probably why I remembered it.

If he's right it's an example of what I would call serial processing!

 

[brokedownpalace10]

The same!

So I saw an interview with Mr. Gibson about twenty years ago, in which he suggested that the visual cortex does complex things with what we see.

Like if you see a dog running down the street, you're not all like, "Hey, what is that moving thing, a giant leaf blowing in the wind? A space elf? Oh no, it's an animal. What is it, a dinosaur? A giant running ameoeoba (sp?) ? No, it's a mammal! And what sort of mammal? A rhinosauras? A wooly-mammoth! No behold a dog! An undead dog? A dead running dog? No, a living, running dog!"

You're probably like, "Hey look, a dog!" In the view of Mr. Gibson, the visual cortex does most of that for you. He said something like when you see stuff, before it hits the cognitive part of your brain it goes through several of what Gibson says are filters, including at least one of which he believed to be cultural. That one was fascinating for me, and probably why I remembered it.

If he's right it's an example of what I would call serial processing!

Interesting. So, concepts hard wired into our brains wouldn't even have to be in our "subconscious", they could be in our visual cortex... or in both (most likely)

***********************************

"The Neuromancer" was one of my favorites. The man invented cyberpunk like Bill Monroe invented Bluegrass. He coined the term "cyberspace" in The Neuromancer.

Gibson also wrote a "proto-Neuromancer" in the short story, "Johnny Mnemonic". The story even had a seminal Molly.
Keanu Reeves starred in a movie version of Johnny Mnemonic before he did The Matrix. Somehow, I think he has read Gibson.

 

[cosmic charlie]

never had that on 4-ACO-DMT.

If you take enough you absolutely will have entity contact i have experienced it many times. Good way to go is with high doses intranasally like 40-50mgs without tolerance will get you there if you dont play with needles. It comes on fast that way almost like a DMT Flash but it lasts longer and trails off to slower trip, with soul refreshing afterglow.

In the past i have also IVed various doses did 20mgs a few times and it feels just like DMT. One time on my birthday i shot up 75mgs (with tolerance) and id been swallowed by fractals seconds after the plunger pushed down. I threw the syringe on the floor laid back in bed and flew through the stars, danced that cosmic two-step.

This drug is something special, extremely versatile. Bet that using it in combination with Ketamine intramuscular injection same shot like 100mgs Ketamine and 25mgs Psilacetin would be something like a magic elixir. Have a chat with our brethren from an other dimension.

Namaste

 

[JackARoe]

Actually looking back I have had entity contact on a synthetic. I know I have had it on LSD. No doubt some of these at a good dose could cause entity contact.

However Ismene is calling BS on this contact. LOL Is it our own subconscious presenting our own thoughts back or an external being communicating? Actually on a mushroom trip it seemed all external beings are actually part of me. Sort of scared me. I like the inner/outer illusion.

When you die, there is residual, slowly fading brain activity for 24-36 hours after death. My hypothesis is that, given the ability of thought to move at any speed, this is "the afterlife", which may be a long, or extremely long-seeming even, experience after which your consciousness fizzles out completely. Perhaps it even stretches into something approaching infinity. This makes me wonder if people whose brains are destroyed in death just immediately cease to exist?

Fascinating. I love large ideas like this. I can see that. But a few thoughts. If our last thoughts are of what we want then Nature did that for a reason. Im mean all of our living life we seek what we want. House, relationships, hobbies. To have that unleashed as totally satisfying in our last 36 hours of brain activity would seem Nature gracing us. And then of course after 36 hours does consciousness disintegrate or merge with where it came to something larger? Life and death again. a riddle. (actually these are thoughts for the philosophy forum so I will cut is short. Great thoughts though) And if true I would rather have my head smashed and go to sleep for good. We all love sleep. I don't think that is a coincidence either. Laying my head on that pillow and seeking to blink out....But I think there is more to the story that we can't know yet.

 

[Solarius]

The first time I took DMT I didn't know too much about it. I knew that it was a very strong psychedelic and I had heard of machine elves but I didn't really know what that meant. I didn't really know about meeting entities or anything. Anyways, the first time I took it I broke through. I took one hit, and didn't feel much, then I took the second hit and the visuals started to kick in, then I took the third hit, closed my else and it felt like someone grabbed me from behind and pulled me into another dimension. They were dragging me up stairs to a palace in the sky against my will. The stairs were really long and I was terrified. It seemed like whoever was dragging me did not want me there. Once we got to the palace the entity threw me into an office. It looked kinda like Tony Montana's office from scarface. I sat in the office terrified that whoever put me in there was going to come back. Shortly after I started to come back to reality. I never got a look at the entity but I could always feel its presence when I was there. The message I took away from that was that I wasn't ready to break through and whoever was in my trip was trying to tell me that. A couple of weeks later I experimented with DMT again but this time I took lower doses. I took two hits and closed my eyes. I felt like I was in the perspective of a camera that was floating. The space I was in was pitch black and all I could see was a door in front of me. I floated towards the door and it opened. There was a black figure standing there inviting me in. The figure looked like the shape of a human but it was all black. No clothes and no facial features. When I walked into the room there were a bunch of these entities sitting around smoking hookah. A few minutes after I came back to reality I tried it again with the same dose. The same scenario happened but this time when the door opened the entity was wearing white shoes and nothing else. The entity invited me in and this time they were having a party. I was getting the vibe as if I were walking into a frat party. It was like I was opening the door and everyone was greeting me and wanting me to party with them. They were all drinking and doing alien drugs and playing some kind of alien drinking game.

What I took away from this experience is that these entities (If real or not) were telling me that I was not ready to break through but I shouldn't be scared and I should try it again later in life. They were so hostile the first time but the second time they were inviting and I felt very comfortable. It was like they didn't want to scare me away. Im not saying these aliens are real. It could be my conscious sending me this message but I have had friends who have seen similar entities so its pretty convincing.

 

[qwertygina]

The "DMT elves" are part of the collective unconscious. We are all connected , wether we can see it or not it is true.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

When you die, there is residual, slowly fading brain activity for 24-36 hours after death. My hypothesis is that, given the ability of thought to move at any speed, this is "the afterlife", which may be a long, or extremely long-seeming even, experience after which your consciousness fizzles out completely. Perhaps it even stretches into something approaching infinity. This makes me wonder if people whose brains are destroyed in death just immediately cease to exist?

Maybe that’s where difference in belief in east and west cultures about what happens after death

You get buried – afterlife – lingering energy in form of quantum consciousness
You get cremated – reincarnation – same “quantum mind” leaps into something else

If mind is a quantum based phenomena...who knows