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Tryptamines Calling bullshit on DMT "aliens"

Ismene2

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
2,652
I only ever saw DMT aliens in the first couple of ayahuasca trips I had - after I'd been reading Mckenna. As I took yage more and more I came to the conclusion that it was just my imagination making shit up because of what I'd read. These days I havn't seen "aliens" in years and the only voice I hear in my head sounds like my own voice rather than any "alien" or "God". For a start, the voice always speaks english and it always has exactly the same sense of humour as I do.

So I dunno - it reminds me of the book "Life after death" where "hundreds and hundreds" of people claim to have seen the "white light" and then met "jesus" but then you find out they're all christians and they're just seeing what they want to see. Which is understandable - you're in a different frame of mind, it's overwhelming - your brain tries to make sense of it.

But I was just curious has anyone who takes DMT regularly - once every week or two - (rather than the once every 6 months trippers) - do you see DMT aliens every time you trip? And what's your conclusions on they're validity?

(I am just talking about ayahuasca here - I never got into smoking DMT as I don't like short trips)
 
The reality is, there are certain questions we will never have concrete answers to. Well, actually that applies to most questions, depending how philosophical you want to get.

Beliefs are what help you sleep at night, my friend.
Exactly. As it stands we don't know if the visual elves are actual separate entities or part of our own subconscious. It seems to both in ways but the way we look out at the world is has to logically be one or the other.

Belief's, they make people sleep at night or stay awake at night. I have always stressed the importance of not solidifying a belief system with psychedelics. I like to keep it wide open to interpretation. Too strong of a belief system and one can become a Hare Krishna handing out pamphlets at an airport and your family disowns you. lol I like the approach that we just don't know. Because once someone says THEY KNOW for sure then that can cause issues and arguments.

So I play it this way. What happens after death? I just don't know. I have not died yet. (I like to keep it simple)
 
No. I don't even like the term aliens for this phenomenon. Seems misleading. Every once is a while it seems a thought pops into my head and it seems to not come from me. So the assumption is I am being fed thoughts by an outer being. At the same time it seems like my own subconscious is the source of these thoughts as they pertain to me. They also seem to come from a cartoon like being (elf I guess) , where that can either be my own thoughts presented back to myself or an accual "other" being. I can get that with mushrooms too but more so with smoked DMT. Also never had that on 4-ACO-DMT. Only mushrooms and smoked DMT bring that sense of other. Oddly enough on synthetic psychedelics it seems all to be my subconscious feeding me info. The sense of "other" only becomes apparent to me on mushrooms or smoked DMT. Have not ingested ayahuasca in years do to being in kratom. But I agree with you Ismene on the effects of 4-ACO-DMT. Seems to be more ayahuasca like than mushroom like.

If I had created any belief system on this stuff I would be bat shit crazy. ;)
 
I’ve never seen anything but humans on DMT, and I see them every time. Sometimes familiar faces, sometimes not. No aliens though.

I’ve never found DMT to be as crazy or interesting as other people say, personally. I’m not saying it hasn’t been good, it just hasn’t lived up to the hype for me. Most drugs don’t though and are better when you just let them be what they are anyway, in my experience and opinion.
 
I’ve never found DMT to be as crazy or interesting as other people say, personally. I’m not saying it hasn’t been good, it just hasn’t lived up to the hype for me. Most drugs don’t though and are better when you just let them be what they are anyway, in my experience and opinion.
That is what I think too. Let them be what they are. As soon as we make the experience grandiose we almost immediately create a belief. Where as just letting them be what they are keeps them in context.

We don't know much. When it is all said and done DMT aliens and elves could be as relevant as someone seeing faces in the clouds. How much weight does it carry? I do think the insights are valuable and can help us grow. But to speculate about aliens and other life is a bit far. Although I can say Terrence McKenna did that speculating well. Kept it light and not solid.

Dale Pendell seemed to also voice the opinion that DMT is like a wild cartoon. Not much there. I can say there is a lot there if I pay attention. DMT seems to speak to me in analogies. But I hold off saying anything else when it comes to this.
 
I actually think most of the phenomena produced by DMT and other similar drugs have already been explained by modern science via understanding of things like psychosis and dissociation. The drug scene gave me the impression these things were poorly understood until I started getting into the mental health scenes and realized that even shit like talking to apparent aliens in your head is not poorly understood at all but rather accepted and researched by mainstream science and discussed among large non-drug-using communities of people who have no problem accepting that it’s still just a part of the brain and working with it in ways like people have traditionally tried to interpret and work with other internal phenomena like their dreams from a modern psychotherapeutic perspective. There’s basically nothing unusual about things like DMT and salvia for instance if you’re already thoroughly familiar with how deep the rabbit hole of dissociative identity disorder goes, and things like mystical experiences on dissociatives sound largely similar to bipolar disorder manic episode psychosis too, and stuff like that. People think drugs are so mysterious but that’s basically just because they think only people taking drugs are experiencing things like you experience from taking drugs, which is most assuredly not even remotely close to the truth.
 
I actually think most of the phenomena produced by DMT and other similar drugs have already been explained by modern science via understanding of things like psychosis and dissociation. The drug scene gave me the impression these things were poorly understood until I started getting into the mental health scenes and realized that even shit like talking to apparent aliens in your head is not poorly understood at all but rather accepted and researched by mainstream science and discussed among large non-drug-using communities of people who have no problem accepting that it’s still just a part of the brain and working with it in ways like people have traditionally tried to interpret and work with other internal phenomena like their dreams from a modern psychotherapeutic perspective. There’s basically nothing unusual about things like DMT and salvia for instance if you’re already thoroughly familiar with how deep the rabbit hole of dissociative identity disorder goes, and things like mystical experiences on dissociatives sound largely similar to bipolar disorder manic episode psychosis too, and stuff like that. People think drugs are so mysterious but that’s basically just because they think only people taking drugs are experiencing things like you experience from taking drugs, which is most assuredly not even remotely close to the truth.

An interesting stance to take and here I'll make the sad confession that I don't agree.

But given the novelty of your perspective, is there anything that you could say about why, in your humble opinion, our brain even has DMT receptors? I'm highly curious about this. I accept that you're probably not a neuroscientist and I hope I'm not putting you into a position where you feel the need to defend your otherwise lovely views.
 
An interesting stance to take and here I'll make the sad confession that I don't agree.

But given the novelty of your perspective, is there anything that you could say about why, in your humble opinion, our brain even has DMT receptors? I'm highly curious about this. I accept that you're probably not a neuroscientist and I hope I'm not putting you into a position where you feel the need to defend your otherwise lovely views.

You're more than welcome to disagree, I'm aware that my views are not common. I'm also perfectly willing to discuss my views with you on these topics at length although I'll warn you that doing so in full would not be quick or simple. (And I'll probably talk too much about myself.)

I am indeed not a neuroscientist, just someone who's experienced a lot of things with and without drugs and familiarized myself with many different communities related to it. I have done a lot of amateur research into the science about these things though too, and consider myself to know significantly more about drug science than the average drug user. I'm willing to answer your question, but I have to ask for clarification, what specifically are you referring to with the term "DMT receptors"?

DMT is a pharmacologically complex molecule, binding to a wide array of receptors such as for serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, and histamine, as well as sites like trace amine-associated receptors and sigma receptors. If you're referring to one specifically, I would guess it's maybe the sigma-1 receptor? This receptor is often the one singled out for trying to decipher why DMT itself exists in trace amounts in mammal brains, but it's actually not exclusively a DMT receptor, also binding other trace amines as well as neurosteroids including even testosterone and progesterone; furthermore, it's highly questionable whether this receptor site has any relevance to what people consider to be the more distinctive recreational subjective effects of DMT, and I'd personally have to say I haven't seen much evidence of it being important in that way. Most likely, based on the evidence I've seen, DMT produces its primary effects through 5-HT2A receptors, like other psychedelics, and at least some of its distinctiveness probably just comes from the fact that it does stimulate many other receptors as well at the same time, potentially making the experience more cognitively complex than something like a more selective 5-HT2A receptor agonist would do.

However, none of these actions are specific to DMT, far from it. Even despite DMT being present in the brain, every receptor known to be activated by DMT is, to my knowledge, simultaneously known to be activated by other brain chemicals as well which have at least as much evidence behind their relevance to human life as DMT if not significantly more so. So, based on my current knowledge, I personally would not say that there are "DMT receptors" in the brain. It seems very likely to me that the recreational subjective effects of DMT largely derive from it mimicking other brain monoamines such as serotonin, like other psychedelics.

Again though, DMT itself is in the brain, and I'm not saying it definitely has no purpose, or even likely doesn't. That being said, that alone doesn't mean anything clear or suggest relevance to the subjective effects of DMT. Bufotenine (5-HO-DMT), 5-MeO-DMT, morphine, codeine, ethanol, GHB, and nitrous oxide are all found naturally in mammal brains too.

While I would also like to understand the brain on this level, I'm not personally sure it really matters to understanding the effects of DMT in the way that we're discussing here at least, but that's because I think the way we experience DMT when using it recreationally is more likely resulting from an alteration of "normal" brain activities as opposed to triggering some process naturally meant for DMT, although I have encountered people who hold the latter view before too.
 
the entities i have seen under the influence of ayahuasca have generally been pretty varied: animals, a giant green cube, old, somewhat angry (imposing, not threatening) Zeus-like wizardly figures, etc. I did vaguely see an alien during a mushroom trip but the non-visual content, the intuitively revealed knowledge that was happening at the same time overpowered any curiosity to the visual side of things.
 
An interesting stance to take and here I'll make the sad confession that I don't agree.

But given the novelty of your perspective, is there anything that you could say about why, in your humble opinion, our brain even has DMT receptors? I'm highly curious about this. I accept that you're probably not a neuroscientist and I hope I'm not putting you into a position where you feel the need to defend your otherwise lovely views.
What the hell I was just reading about Gordon Liddy a minute ago, I swear these synchronicities man...

I gotta hop in on the conversation with you and Kaleida: I also don't think DMT is in particular "unique", it's spectacular power seems to stem mostly from the very high dosages (which are made practical by the short duration) and the fact that it is smoked, thus brining one into the trip immediately. It could perhaps be that orally administered psychedelics induce a small level of tolerance during the comeup, thus rendering the peak a little less intense, though who knows. DMT is actually not that strong of a psychedelic, either by weight or receptor affinities.
 
God, me, angels, aliens, fairies, you, we, universe, elf … it’s all the same dudeeeeeeee

I saw 3 myself on my first breakthrough

Some kind of female reptilians on first time sawing some entities, they just seemed playful

And nt dimensional crew during my most remarkable experience where my nose was purified from K, got cured, healed…might write up a trip report on that some time in the future. It was my body but dmt caused me to experience physical manifestations of that experience, and once when I was in a better shape and not using K, it was even more remarkable, like a litre of water poured out of my nose/mouth, drool that much in, what, 10 mins top, weird and connected to mental experience more than I could have ever imagined.

What, who, where, how, when….idk...but it sure ain’t something I have even remotely firm explanation for
 
Again though, DMT itself is in the brain, and I'm not saying it definitely has no purpose, or even likely doesn't. That being said, that alone doesn't mean anything clear or suggest relevance to the subjective effects of DMT. Bufotenine (5-HO-DMT), 5-MeO-DMT, morphine, codeine, ethanol, GHB, and nitrous oxide are all found naturally in mammal brains too.

You know you made any number of excelent points, but this in particular stimulated a thought on my part. What if part of what DMT does is related to vestigial parts of the brain? I'll have a glance at the brain. Sorry if my inquest is sophmoric.

What else occured to me in response to your post, is if your theory is correct, and why wouldn't it be? ...why does DMT get released into our brains as we're dying? That's a puzzle.
 
What the hell I was just reading about Gordon Liddy a minute ago,

Well I wasn't supposed to tell you this, but the Bavarian Illuminati planted me here to keep an eye on you.

23ova.jpg


I swear these synchronicities man...

Is that anything you'd be willing to elaborate on? I went through something similar a few years ago. Might have a story for you. Apricots.
I gotta hop in on the conversation with you and Kaleida: I also don't think DMT is in particular "unique", it's spectacular power seems to stem mostly from the very high dosages (which are made practical by the short duration) and the fact that it is smoked, thus brining one into the trip immediately. It could perhaps be that orally administered psychedelics induce a small level of tolerance during the comeup, thus rendering the peak a little less intense, though who knows. DMT is actually not that strong of a psychedelic, either by weight or receptor affinities.
Dude, that's brilliant. I have to admit that I like DMT better than acid. Meaning sadly I don't really like acid.

But what you seem to suggest is that I'm happier with DMT because it wears off faster, creates less of a hangover for me, and is more of a body high. So basically what you're saying, similar chemical action and mostly chalked up to my subjective experience?
 
DMT entites are a load of shit. Mckenna was talking out his arse his entire life and that mf didn't even take a single mushroom trip when he was preaching in the 90's. Just a phony mf lol.

DMT aint shit compared to 10 tabs of the purest LSD
 
What else occured to me in response to your post, is if your theory is correct, and why wouldn't it be? ...why does DMT get released into our brains as we're dying? That's a puzzle.

That's actually an extremely often quoted "truth" which may not, in fact, be truth at all...it's all derived from "DMT: The Spirit Moleule", in which the author clearly states that it is a theory. A theory that there has never been any evidence to support. Yet every other person I encounter quotes it as fact.
 
There is very likely a cascade of various endogenous psychoactive chemicals in the moment of death. There is certainly some programming in our DNA to do weird things in the moments before death. Our DNA knows when it's dying. Some interesting science on this.

People who have hallucinations while dying (NDEs) often report similar themes to a DMT trip. Angels, entities, out of body stuff.

What they never report?... colors, fractals, psychedelia.... so it certainly isn't DMT.

That single study, which was never really confirmed nor replicated, definitely gets too much credence
 
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