• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Stimulants Caffeine, Safe but counter-productive stimulant?

Neuroprotection

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
1,082
as the most popular psychoactive drug in the world, it’s easy to forget that caffeine is a potent drug. of course, it is much safer and less addictive than many other psychoactive drugs, but many say it’s also the least useful for productivity and focus.
Those who benefited from quitting it claim to have discovered that caffeine was actually counter-productive because it increased anxiety and created an agitated energy which could put them off achieving their goals and just generally increasing stress levels.
I wonder if any of you have quit caffeine and if so, what were the benefits?
I would be especially interested to know if quitting caffeine affected your experience with other drugs. i’m thinking of quitting caffeine myself at some point, just need to wait until conditions are right and I have enough time to cope with withdrawals.
 
I personally find that the anxiogenesis is dose dependent. As I increase my caffeine consumption due to tolerance, the anxiety starts to appear so I try to keep my intake low and spread out through the day. The therapeutic index is kinda small once you begin to tolerate the substance
 
I have questioned my caffeine consumption many times. With tolerance it really doesn't even wake me up anymore, but at the same time it feels like a necessity in the morning. The ritual. I don't even particularly enjoy the taste, but I do enjoy the smell.

It makes me question if it is actually giving me more side effects than benefits.

Maybe I'll do an experiment and just quit for awhile. Easier said than done, there is definitely a strong psychological addiction to the ritual. Although I have quit before many times during alcohol/benzo withdrawal.

As I increase my caffeine consumption due to tolerance, the anxiety starts to appear so I try to keep my intake low and spread out through the day.

I'm kinda the opposite. Without tolerance caffeine gives me anxiety even is small doses, but once I develop tolerance I don't get anxiety from any dose. I've had panic attacks from 1 shot of espresso before.

But I've never really been one to drink more than 3 or 4 cups, or more than 300mg of caffeine. It starts to make my stomach hurt if I drink more than 2 cups.
 
my experience with caffeine has been as follows:

Started drinking two large pots of coffee every morning at about age 12 and later drank energy drinks frequently. this would energise me in the morning but it didn’t seem to do much else. at around age 18, I unintentionally quit caffeine due to moving house and family going on holiday. I just kind of forgot about coffee and with nobody to prepare it for me, I didn’t bother trying myself. looking back on that time, I now realise that despite being very tired in the mornings, I had more stable energy throughout the day and my anxiety was significantly lower. I also felt more connection to other people and perhaps more optimism. unusually, my sleep pattern was a little more unbalanced without caffeine and I found myself with more energy and productivity later in the day/evening. I would often get most of my college work done between 6 pm and 11 pm without caffeine. later on, I got back into caffeine from both energy drinks and coffee as I thought it would help me further improve. interestingly, it would make me feel better in the mornings, but it did nothing for my motivation or focus and I began to find myself much more anxious again.
In my final years of university, caffeine was somewhat useful in helping fight off sleepiness, but my best assignment results came from work I did during Ramadan when I voluntarily abstain from caffeine for the whole month to avoid sleep problems and dehydration whilst fasting.
A very interesting observation I made about caffeine:
At least in my experience, it seems to be a very good‘ Do nothing stimulant“. this is because The strong physical and somewhat nervous energy it provides can make lazing around feel more exciting as well as encouraging one to do things that are easy, but useless. on the other hand, through its anxiogenic affect, caffeine may worsen procrastination by making tasks more aversive and stressful. i’ve definitely noticed this affect. yes, without caffeine, I’m much more likely to feel tired/nod off when working on a demanding mental task. however, I’m simultaneously more able to zoom into the task and despite still getting distracted very easily, i’m able to easily get back on track. without caffeine, I also noticed greater optimism about finishing the task at hand and completing it would actually be rewarding in itself as opposed to just being relief from A stressful experience.

Other drugs without caffeine:
Personally, I have mixed views about poly-substance use, Though I think it is predominantly negative most of the time. when not on caffeine, I develop fascination/interests for other drugs especially alternative stimulants and supplements (B vitamins). my go-to alternative to caffeine would be nicotine which I enjoy much more and who’s stimulation actually boost my mood and improves my productivity. yes, nicotine doesn’t improve my cognition or memory a single bit, it just makes doing work more pleasant and more importantly, much less painful. unlike caffeine, it suppresses my anxiety, boosts my optimism and when used chronically, puts me in a strange state of numbness to the pain and anxiety of mental tasks, encouraging me to just get on with them. interestingly, whenever I have used nicotine whilst abstinent from caffeine, nicotine’s beneficial effects were considerably magnified and sustained.

Miscellaneous effects of quitting caffeine:
When abstinent from caffeine after withdrawals have passed, I noticed certain changes to my behaviour and mood some of which I might have mentioned above. these are; no energy in the mornings, but becoming considerably functional and energetic by the afternoon, far less anxiety, less but better quality sleep, possibly improved imagination/deeper thoughts, increased hunger and a massive increase in the pleasurable aspect of tasting food, people say I look much healthier and alive, enjoying socialising much more which is surprising as I’m normally extremely introverted, less procrastination and unusually, enhanced libido. interestingly in regards to procrastination, without caffeine, The anxiety caused by a stressful situation like a looming task would provide enough stimulation to naturally push me to complete it rather than pushing me away from it and encouraging me to procrastinate.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on my experience and your own experiences.
 
in regards to my desire to quit caffeine and replace it with another drug, my best choices are probably nicotine initially and later on selegiline if I can get hold of it. I guess this sounds A little odd and more risky but I thought this out very well. nicotine and Selegiline are definitely more risky than caffeine with considerably stronger psychological effects. however, I think their potential risks are far outweighed by The strongly beneficial effects they can produce especially on motivation and General mood/well-being. yes, nicotine might be addictive and selegiline may induce impulsivity, but these can be managed with more careful use and monitoring. on the other hand, caffeine is relatively safe, but the many negative effects it can have on my productivity and general well-being have made me reconsider it. there’s been a major shift in my thinking and I no longer see caffeine as a harmless well-being enhancing stimulant superior to other stimulants. i’m now fully open to the idea of trying traditional Psychostimulants like amphetamine/methylphenidate, but of course, I would only do this after being free of caffeine for a few weeks so that I can fully compare the effects.
 
I would personally be interested in fencamfamin as a stimulant replacement. The lack of peripheral NE activity sounds nice
 
I would like to cut down on it yes

Kinda pointless and mostly a leftover from adolescent psychoactive OCD
 
I would personally be interested in fencamfamin as a stimulant replacement. The lack of peripheral NE activity sounds nice


Wow, what an excellent choice for a replacement stimulant. i’ve always wanted to try that one myself since I heard about it a few years ago. i’m sure it’s definitely much better than caffeine, but it also sounds better than other psychostimulants like methylphenidate. if you’ve tried nicotine, do you agree with me that it is also a better stimulant than caffeine?
Also, do you have any thoughts regarding the interaction of caffeine with other drugs and whether other drugs feel better without it. I was really surprised by my experience regarding the interaction between caffeine and nicotine which the literature say is a synergistically more rewarding combination. that’s true to some extent, with caffeine in the system nicotine gives a stronger Initial rush. however, without caffeine, I felt all the benefits of nicotine, including mood enhancement lasted much longer and it was much more psychologically pleasurable.
 
I would like to cut down on it yes

Kinda pointless and mostly a leftover from adolescent psychoactive OCD


Sorry, just to clarify, do you mean to say that caffeine is kind of pointless? if so, I definitely agree in regards to myself and my own experience. i’m sure that’s not the case for everyone and some may benefit immensely from It. however, I do wonder how many people like myself maybe deceived into thinking that caffeine was A lifeline for their productivity, when in fact, it might be sabotaging it.
 
I definitely like nicotine as a stimulant but I try to keep my use down as much as possible, I managed to get off my nicotine dependency a while back and I don't want to get back on it regularly
 
I definitely like nicotine as a stimulant but I try to keep my use down as much as possible, I managed to get off my nicotine dependency a while back and I don't want to get back on it regularly


That’s interesting. Personally, I don’t mind being addicted to nicotine, rather, I am planning to become a daily user once I quit caffeine. as I’ve mentioned previously, whenever I use nicotine for a few months at a time on a daily basis, I would procrastinate much less and would become desensitised to negative effects of stress on my productivity. I can’t pinpoint whether I developed a slight tolerance to the nicotine rush, though I don’t think I did. However, I wasn’t really looking for that anyway. i’m planning to take my nicotine through tobacco free pouches or Swedish Snuss which has far fewer carcinogens. i’m particularly interested in trying the Siberia brand, which contains 45 mg of nicotine per pouch.
 
That's a lot of nicotine, I get big benefits from chewing 2mg gum


Yes, it’s a lot, but I really love nicotine. do you also notice the emotional numbing effects of nicotine, more specifically its ability to suppress The ability of negative emotions/stressed to interfere with motivation and General mood. that is, when I use nicotine chronically, it did not block my ability to feel stress or even reduce stressful emotions in response to bad situations. instead, it simply prevented those emotions from crossing over into despair and stoped them interfering with my productivity. it also improved my background mood, producing a desire to persist and push through difficult things and making tasks feel more rewarding and less aversive/risky. I know I sound like I’m exaggerating, but I promise I’m not. my father, who doesn’t know about my opportunistic nicotine use described similar effects of nicotine as a lifelong smoker, but for him, nicotine makes him considerably less productive. he told me that whilst smoking, he felt much more content putting things off to a later date and even procrastinating about relatively urgent situations. in his opinion, nobody benefits from nicotine and any perceived benefits are all in the mind. furthermore, he’s also pretty sure that nicotine will always ruin productivity in the long-term and even in the short term to some degree. Little did he know that the highest grades I ever achieved at university were all the results of work done under the influence of chronic nicotine.
 
my dramatic change in attitude towards caffeine actually surprised me given that I loved it for most of my life and used it heavily for certain periods of my life since childhood. with all this in mind, I don’t actually hate caffeine. I just think it might not be for me anymore. I suspect this shift might have been linked to a serious bout of anhedonia/depression last year, which I believe was triggered by the stress of starting a job and feeling extremely lost and anxious. interestingly, during that depressive episode caffeine no longer provided The mild mood lift that it normally would and it barely energised me. I just drank it to avoid withdrawals. furthermore, I became super sensitive to the anxiety and jittery effects of caffeine, Effects I had never got so strong before even with huge doses. caffeine started making me procrastinate to a whole new level, probably because of the anxiety. when the anhedonia/depressive episode finally resolved, The diminished positive effects and enhanced negative effects of caffeine did not for about six months after. then, I was spontaneously able to enjoy caffeine again and got all the positive effects back, however, I still feel much more sensitive to the negative effects as well. however, this could partly be because i’m much more aware of the negative effects, especially its ability to make me procrastinate.
Once I quit, I’m planning never to use caffeine regularly again, at least whilst I’m still in employment. it would be interesting to try it after about a year of abstinence and very rarely as an energiser if I have adequate time off. otherwise avoiding it completely is probably best for me. I suppose I may lose out on the potential neuroprotective effects of caffeine, but what I learnt through my obsession with neuroprotective compounds is that neural protection won’t necessarily lead to better brain function or well-being. caffeine may enhance learning/memory and be protective against Alzheimer’s, but for many, it’s ability to trigger the stress response/HPA axis and promote anxiety means it will ultimately impair cognition. additionally, many other neuroprotective compounds exist including vitamins/minerals, antioxidant flavonoids, inhibitory amino acids especially taurine and even some pharmaceutical drugs. nicotine is potentially neuroprotective but I now just see that as an added benefit, with it’s psychoactive/emotional benefits being the main reasons why I want to use it.
 
Sorry, just to clarify, do you mean to say that caffeine is kind of pointless? if so, I definitely agree in regards to myself and my own experience. i’m sure that’s not the case for everyone and some may benefit immensely from It. however, I do wonder how many people like myself maybe deceived into thinking that caffeine was A lifeline for their productivity, when in fact, it might be sabotaging it.

Yes, it's kind of pointless.

It's almost like a drug that exists just to be a drug and create a habit. The effect is noticeable but largely useless.

However, coffee is tasty but decaf coffee sounds too stupid. I'll live with this microscopic conundrum.
 
Yes, it's kind of pointless.

It's almost like a drug that exists just to be a drug and create a habit. The effect is noticeable but largely useless.

However, coffee is tasty but decaf coffee sounds too stupid. I'll live with this microscopic conundrum.


Thanks for that. I actually read an article about the opinions of German University students on the use of caffeine versus that of traditional psychostimulants. most viewed caffeine as acceptable, but the non-medical use of amphetamine as unacceptable. interestingly, only a few of them cited legal reasons or health concerns, with quite a few stating that caffeine didn’t really provide unfair advantage, whereas amphetamine may well do so. i’ve heard many say that non-medical stimulant use is no more useful than megadosing caffeine for cognitive performance and getting work done. this is in my opinion a half truth disseminated with good intentions of keeping youngsters away from highly addictive drugs like Adderall or Ritalin. yes, it is true they probably don’t improve memory and likely impaire cognition at moderate to high doses. however, from the research I’ve done, they really can’t be compared to caffeine at any dose. their ability to improve mood and motivation can certainly assist studying though I assume Their greatest benefit/potential is in helping students Who have already attained adequate knowledge to put pen to paper and finish their assignments.
 
The only reason I use caffeine is to overcome sleepiness/drowsiness. It is counterproductive for anything related to productivity because it just raises my HR and anxiety--I'm most productive when I'm calm. Other than feeling less sleepy, I would never use caffeine. But amphetamines are different story--I take them daily for ADHD and they're way way superior, of course. I use to take modafinil and armodafinil instead of caffeine to overcome the anxiety/agitation/jittery and increased HR it causes--since both those drugs help overcome drowsiness but also don't give anxiety or agitation. I also used to get headaches with caffeine.
 
The only reason I use caffeine is to overcome sleepiness/drowsiness. It is counterproductive for anything related to productivity because it just raises my HR and anxiety--I'm most productive when I'm calm. Other than feeling less sleepy, I would never use caffeine. But amphetamines are different story--I take them daily for ADHD and they're way way superior, of course. I use to take modafinil and armodafinil instead of caffeine to overcome the anxiety/agitation/jittery and increased HR it causes--since both those drugs help overcome drowsiness but also don't give anxiety or agitation. I also used to get headaches with caffeine.
Spot on I saw this but it is again I live among coffee drinnking society and it's like breathing but for me it just create headaches when I stop now and I need to stop smoking cigs again.

modafinil was good med I'm now with breaks on Concerta it is impossible to get an amphetamine here and those recreative street ones are everything but!
 
Top