Bupe Buprenorphine Withdrawals

[Pegasus]

No problem, glad to help... just keep us updated!

 

[Bojangles69]

I've tried coming off bupe late last summer and have written this before just not in this thread yet.

I had convinced myself though that pods would be the easiest way to taper off opiates and trying to taper with pods was one of the hardest fucking things I ever done. I literally spent 3 months getting my dose down, just so I could jump off the tinest amount possible (3gms) to find I was slammed not with bad physical wds, but the worst form of insomnia a person can possibly imagine.

Made it to day 8 not sleeping a wink, and only drifting off for hours at a time on random days.

That was when I found and started using sub for tapering.

A few things about my attemps with sub.

When I relapsed with pods I went back to higher doses, and tried switching to 1mg of sub so I could taper the sub. I noticed tapering down from 1mg of sub was almost just as hard as the pods. However, in terms of insomnia and hot flashes there were FAR LESS than from the pods.

Anyway I stayed on 1mg of sub and tried jumping off. Was slammed with wds. Not intense by any means just your regular persistent hot flashes, anxiety through the roof, loss of energy... was much more difficult than I had expected.

Figured at that point I was ruined.

Long story short I get down to .5mg sub and try jumping off again. Slammed with wds, this time much less intense, but still uncomfortable to the point where I simply could not get up and go about my day.

Then I get down to .25mg. And at that dose I felt great. Fucking awesome. More stable than I'd ever felt in my life. No wds as I had started tapering literally .01mg a day (very slow) and when I got to .25mg I stopped tapering. But I DID stay at .25mg for 3 weeks, and I think that was exactly the reason why my addiction finally "broke". You don't just have to get as low as possible but you need to STAY THERE for at least 2-3 weeks. Otherwise if you jump off .25mg too soon, you will feel the wds from higher doses just a few days ago. It takes sub a LONG TIME to really get out of your system. If you keep this in mind when tapering, you will be gold imo. If you rush it, you will have hellish experiences like I initially did.

Then I stopped the sub and crossed my fingers.

Day 1 didn't feel any different.
Day 2 get this I actually felt better then day 1.
Day 3 felt like day 2.
Day 4 I get very super subtle hotflashes. The type you can barely feel.
Day 5 I'm about the same not getting worse not getting better.
Day 6 hot flashes go away, feel fucking great.
Day 7 OMG I beat this addiction, NO FUCKING WAY!!! etc etc

Then Day 8 happened lol.
For the most part I had felt about 95% till day 8. It took sub exactly 7 days before it REALLY officially worked its way out of my system. But I NEVER went through an acute wd phase at all coming off .25mg.

Instead what happened on day 8 was the first day of PAWs.
Then day 9 it intensified. By day 10 I was straight fucking miserable. And at that point I remember thinking "wow I was this concerned about avoiding acute wds but I'd take acute wds any day over this relentless & overwhelming depression".

Day 11 I'm in deep in the pit of paws.
Between days 12- to about 20 I stayed in that pit. And man was it a fight. For those first 20 days straight I did NOT leave my house one time thats how anxious and apathetic it was. This shit made acute wds look like a fucking joke.

I'm reaching the 3 week mark and thinking "damn this shit has GOT to lighten up a bit its been nearly 3 weeks off opiates".

Day 21 nothing improves and I make a thread on BL about how I want to do a "controlled relapse" cause I tried driving my car off the road and wanted nothing more than to die that day.

Then day 22 was the fuck all that really broke me. My PAWs don't actually lighten up at all, instead I dip even further into this hell that I simply thought was impossible to get worse. "You mean to really tell me after 3 months tapering down opiates, and 3 weeks clean... that I really want to kill myself this bad right now?" I was FUCKING PISSED.

Yeh I evaded acute wds, but PAWs are simply no fucking joke. That shit will make you obsess about suicide every minute of every day, it is some really serious shit.

I decided "I'm making it through this last day 22, if I wake up tommorow and don't feel at least a tiny bit better, I'm either killing myself or relapsing".
Day 23 came, nothing had gotten better, I relapsed onto pods and never looked back.

So was sub easy to taper off of? I'd have to say yes for the most part. It can get tricky at times when you need to slow down out of nowhere. But for the most part I actually felt pretty fucking good tapering down the sub. In fact the lower I got the less hot flashes I got, and the more energetic I seemed to feel. So of course I had tricked myself into thinking my body was starting to heal. And for the first week of sub I felt invincible. But that paws was murder on my body and soul. And sometime I question whether I traded the heavier acute wds from pods for a more extended phase of PAWs from sub.

Because first time I stopped pods after 2 years of use the acute wds were bad, but I don't remember any PAWs at all. I think because it takes sub soooo long to dissassociate from the receptor site that THIS is the reason acute wds are easy at low doses. And this was why I didn't get horrible insomnia like pods had caused. But once those PAWs started I knew something was not right. It was just that intense and I never got paws like that before.

So maybe sub does have a much nastier phase of paws or maybe thats just my individual luck. But this time when I come off sub I'm doing the same exact thing. Except I'm not stopping at .25mg.

After that point I'm getting a homeopathic type of dose made up with like .01mg per ml. And I'm going to take it every other day starting from .10mg all the way down to .01mg. Then when I get down to .01mg I will stay there for a month, exercise my ass off for that month then stop.

I wasn't working last time when I stopped and I do regret going back to use cause I'd be far out of the woods by now. But this is just a story to show you that if you're going to taper, you should really go all the way or just jump off higher and say "fuck it". Unless you are REALLY willing to taper super low, and stay there, I say fuck the acute wds because they won't be bad either way. Its that PAWs you want to watch out for. And like I said if you're not willing to go to the new extreme I am, I'd say its pointless.

I'm sure even at that dose I'll feel icky coming off. But it sure as hell won't be enough to stop me from going to work. And another great thing about sub I found is tapering down from 8mg to 1mg is really a joke. I mean just yesterday I went from 4mg to 2mg and barely feel different at all. Tommorow I may feel a bit slower but thats all you really get from tapering at higher dose. Its not till you get lower that hot flashes/anxiety start to surface. But even then its a joke. Like I say the one thing to focus on with sub is the paws. I remember even reading some study where participants had stopped heroin, and then stopped sub, and the ones who stopped sub on avg had a paws phase 6 months long, while for heroin it was like 2 months. And I remember the author talking about how that evidence potentially meant that there is a trade off with sub. Far less acute wds for far more post acute wds.

Either way don't fret, cause once you get that low on this shit I mean you can make 1 strip last you a whole month. Just forget you're even tapering, go on about your normal life, take your dear fucking time, and with persistence (A LOT of persistence) you're eventually guaranteed to succeed.

-Bo

 

[Selina_sanity]

Some say the younger folks who excercise dont get long paws at all, whereas some says sub paws last forever, and others says its the meth or whatever opiate you took before which is causing the paws..I admit I have yet to see any sub user taper off and stay clean for more then 3 months...This is very worrying.

 

[Pegasus]

^ I haven't used bupe in well over 3 months... It's been like 7

 

[i are spectre]

loperamide helps a lot. im on day three of no sub, pretty much drug replacement but it saves a bundle.

 

[moonshield06]

I just wanted to say how helpful this forum has been to me over the last 6 weeks.

I was prescribed 0.2 Buprenorphine twice a day 13 years ago for chronic back pain. It was put on repeat prescription and I continued to take it (albeit once a day for the last 8 odd years, at 7pm to get me through the night).

When I no longer required the medication (my back problem was cured in October 2010) I asked my doctor for advice on how to stop them. She advised taking Diazepam for a week and explained I would be fine after that and if not, take a co-codemol!

I took my last tablet on July 23rd. The first three weeks were a nightmare, restless legs (seems such a poor way of explaining it!) keeping me awake most of the night, shaking, muscle twitches, cramps etc. Following advice here I tried hot baths, cold baths, hot and cold packs on my calves, massage, going for a walk, hypnotherapy as well as Ibuprofen and other over the counter medicines - some of them helped and some nights I managed to get a couple of hours sleep in between baths! The withdrawal symptoms last from around midnight to 8am.

Almost 7 weeks after stopping I am still unable to sleep properly, although I am not getting up as often now (so it can't be as bad as it was), I seem to sleep for 2 hours then lie awake for 3. I know I am over the worse! I have to add, since stopping, I feel and look so much better, I can't believe how such a low dose was so 'numbing'!

When I read here what many of you have gone through I honestly feel ashamed to ask for advice, I was on such a low dose of Bupe, and I feel I should be able to handle this better. I really don't feel inclined to go back to the doctor, she seemed to have no idea about stopping this drug (neither did another doctor I spoke to at the practice) and I feel sure she would just send me home with more Diazepam or Amytriptyline, or tell me it is all in my head.

Has anyone else been on Buprenorphine for many years? If so can you say how long it took before you felt as though you were clear of the withdrawal symptoms? Can anyone offer any advice, please? I would be grateful for any input! Thank you

As far as the insomnia goes from the withdrawals, maybe you can try asking your doctor for a drug called "Trazodone". It's an old antidepressant with very noticeable sedating qualities. When I first started suboxone maintenance, I was given 150mg of trazodone to take before bed. I've been on suboxone for a year now, a little longer actually. Started at 24mg, now down to 6mg and considering going to 4mg next month. I still take the trazodone every night. I sleep like an absolute baby. I fall asleep relatively quick, and STAY asleep throughout the night and wake up feeling normal/non groggy. I've had trouble sleeping all my life, so this little wonder pill is amazing. I don't think it's addicting of any kind. You may have trouble trying to get to sleep once you stop taking it since you're not getting any "assistance" when it comes to making yourself tired, so obviously tapering from 150 down to 100 to 50, and so on and so forth would be best. I also tried seroquel, and that stuff REALLY knocks you out but I felt really silly/loopy every morning I'd wake up after taking it. With the trazodone, no issues what so ever. Maybe it's worth a shot? Congrats on coming off the bupe!

 

[Selina_sanity]

As far as the insomnia goes from the withdrawals, maybe you can try asking your doctor for a drug called "Trazodone". It's an old antidepressant with very noticeable sedating qualities. When I first started suboxone maintenance, I was given 150mg of trazodone to take before bed. I've been on suboxone for a year now, a little longer actually. Started at 24mg, now down to 6mg and considering going to 4mg next month. I still take the trazodone every night. I sleep like an absolute baby. I fall asleep relatively quick, and STAY asleep throughout the night and wake up feeling normal/non groggy. I've had trouble sleeping all my life, so this little wonder pill is amazing. I don't think it's addicting of any kind. You may have trouble trying to get to sleep once you stop taking it since you're not getting any "assistance" when it comes to making yourself tired, so obviously tapering from 150 down to 100 to 50, and so on and so forth would be best. I also tried seroquel, and that stuff REALLY knocks you out but I felt really silly/loopy every morning I'd wake up after taking it. With the trazodone, no issues what so ever. Maybe it's worth a shot? Congrats on coming off the bupe!

When it comes to bup withdrawals then stuff such as trazadone dont do anything, neither do any sleep aids. These weren't made for sub/opiate related insomnia. Its the restless legs which leads to the server insomnia, and sleep aids make things worse. I tried trazadone a few times and it doesnt do anything for me, the seroquel stops working after few days and makes you feel really worse the next day considering if one is already in bup, meth or whatever opiate withdrawals.

Am still concerned about people suffering depression post-bup and I have yet to see or meet one person who got off bup/sub and stayed clean for longer then 3 months. I know one who was clean for 6 months but the relapsed because PAWS were too much for him. This is very worrying, even the strong minded folks seem to struggle to get off bup. Is it any wonder many folks just want to stay on sub for life. Someone also said anyone who does sub for 1 month and over will find it extremely hard to get off and will get PAWS for years, even for 10-20 years if not staying with you for the rest of your life. This is sad and worrying...Some folks claim bup messes your brain cells and liver enzymes which extends withdrawals and PAWS..Man I feel like giving up now!!!

 

[Mrs C]

Thanks for everyone's comments, support and helpful advice . . . it really is appreciated

I was given Trazadone and have to agree with Selena_sanity, it didn't do anything (but give me a rotten headache!). I tried it the first week - looking back, maybe I would have been worse without it, it's hard to say! It IS the restless legs and nothing has made me sleep through that!

I have to say I had just about the worse night on Friday, the 7 week mark BUT . . . the next couple of nights have been much better. In fact, last night although I woke up for an hour, I slept properly for the first time for 7 and a bit weeks! I didn't have rls, or that creepy-crawly feeling, or anxiety! While I was awake I just kept thinking 'I feel great, NO w/d feelings anywhere'! I have followed quite a regime the last two nights:
1 Hot bath 10pm
2 Paracetamol x 2 10.30pm
3 Into bed, ear phones on with some ocean waves sounds (wonderfully in time to breathing!) on a loop playing all night (filling my head with something is better than filling it with all sorts of imagined worries!!!).
4 Read a bit
5 Go to SLEEP!!

I also did some odd things I'd read worked for some people - a magnet under the mattress (!) and a bar of soap under the sheet!!! Oh and a pillow at the end of the bed, under the top sheet, helped - stopped the sheet feeling tight and also meant my feet were parked upright keeping my calves stretched a bit . . . . the things we try

If anyone is reading this and thinks it won't ever get better, I would say it IS doing for me (I know, I was on a very low dose, but for a long time - 13 years) . . . and 7 weeks isn't much out of a life. Even if it takes 7 months I would rather put up with sleepless nights and feel great during the day than have that 'muffled' feeling I had all the time with the Buprenorphine.

Thanks again!

Edit to add I also used a Magnesium Spray I got from Boots the chemist. It is designed for rls. You just spray it on your calves.
Also, I don't think this regime would have had any effect in the first few weeks! I was going mad with the w'd's then and nothing helped much!

 

[batmanplaybaseball]

Some say the younger folks who excercise dont get long paws at all, whereas some says sub paws last forever, and others says its the meth or whatever opiate you took before which is causing the paws..I admit I have yet to see any sub user taper off and stay clean for more then 3 months...This is very worrying.

I got off after 3 months of subs, way too high of doses 16-32mg/day. This was after a lengthy heroin/methadone habit. I then jumped at way too high a dose (around 8mg.) This was still in a time period when most people, and especially doctors, would tell you that suboxone had no withdrawal. I believed that and was surprised by at least a month of acute withdrawal. PAWS then for a couple months, hard to define how long exactly looking back.

The point is that I made it over a year free of Suboxone and I was feeling great. No PAWS, nothing, feeling better than my old pre-addicted self. I want to stress the extent of which I suffered and its duration so that you know that I was not some russian roulette bullet that got through it. I went through all the pain, completely by surprise, and I made it.

Though on a freak accident I found a bottle of lortabs while on vacation and I hesitantly took half. I relapsed the whole ordeal over again, but it was not because I had cravings or was still experiencing any form of PAWS. Actually looking back it was probably the lack of those symptoms that made me feel I could play around with opiates again. Learned from the first mistake and now I am clean and I will learn from the second as well. And it is possible to quit, that is the most important.

 

[euphoricc]

not to make any one sad i been i-n a battle after 3 years -of sub dose 16 mg than i tapered to .5 mg than i have a broken hand so i stopped sub an am on pain meds so after my hand is good if im not sick imma be done but it is hell u will sick'

 

[unsettled]

I'm on day six of sub w/d and at the moment I'm fine, I was on it for a year and occasionally took breaks and used H for a few days (or weeks at times). I found that I like Subs better overall and that they are harder for me to quit mentally than H, but overall the acute w/d from H is a thousand times worse for me than coming off a low dose of sub.

I started off at 8mgs of sub a day approx a year ago then went up to 16mgs, realized that was ridiculous and tapered down to around 1mg and stopped all opiates about six days ago. I'm using Klonopin and Loperamide and lots of Aleve to get through and it's working better than I expected. My guess is the Loperamide is helping more than anything since I seem to be one of the people it works for.

My plan is to just taper off the loperamide and hopefully be done with opiates,.... although I've said that before, in this very thread about a year ago actually.

I'm taking around 40mgs of loperamide a day and 2mgs of clonazepam a day as well as a good amount of naproxen and it's very bearable. My main symptoms are severe fatigue and muscle cramps, however when I dose all the above mentioned meds properly I've managed to feel pretty close to normal for hours at a time.

I have to say though I did manage to take a week off of subs a month ago and only used 1mg of sub every other day for the last week before I stopped. I have no subs left so this is it, I have no desire to go back to opiates but that's easy to say now. I've noticed a subtle clarity in my mind after stopping the subs... not sure if I like it, the subs were a nice buffer but there's too much to do and the subs were holding me back in my daily life. I have a new job offer that requires constant travel and I don't want an opiate habit traveling with me!

I think the bottom line is it's easier to quit than it is to stay clean, no matter how horrific the withdrawal may seem. You gotta have some sort of support in place for when you get off the opiates to help you stay off, and if you don't want it more than anything... forget it. Just maintain and be safe. I've quit a few times now and I really feel like I'm done with it. Time will tell.

 

[Bojangles69]

Yeh let me reiterate one thing about opiate wds although people all know this we usually don't make the appropriate decisions to avoid it from happening when wds kick in.
Whether you feel like walking shit or not one thing most people can agree on is the more sleep you get in wds the less intense wds are. And most people do not sleep during wds. I know for me going on like 1 hour of sleep everyday for 8 days straight was way worse then any physical pain I may have got during wds. What I mean is what it does to your brain psychologically never mind your body. But the lack of sleep alone that opiates induce during wds WILL drive you crazy and amplify anxiety depression that much more.

Thats why it would be wise for anyone to find a med or even safe combination of meds that can give them even a few hours of sleep w/out making it worse the next day. Soma and benzos are known to do this well. Mixing antihistamines together as well as different salts of the same antihistamine can have compound effects that allow some to sleep. Like for me I use to mix a bit of seroquel with diphenhydramine hydrochloride and diphenhydramine citrate, the combination usually knocked me out no matter what.

There are various ways of experimenting with different sedatives and hypnotics just be SAFE and try to find something that works for you w/out adding too much burden afterwards. I just remember the times I slept during wd and the times I didn't, and no matter what a little bit of sleep always helps. So if you can somehow manage to get that during wds you will really be that much better off imo.

 

[suessmayr]

Actually, noone should use anti-psychotics to help with WD. They can intensify akathisia (restlessness) to an unbearable degree. This happened with me. Seroquel made everything about 100x worse, I literally could not even stand in one place - I had to walk around constantly from dusk til dawn. Fucking killer.

I'm 87 days clean today FUCKEN YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH. I agree that the actual withdrawal is inevitably easier than the PAWS. Because you have a goal, you have something to achieve. Now the depression and anxiety are just constant and nebulous, and I'm craving like a motherfucker. Still, made it this far.

 

[suessmayr]

Also, to the person who is using massive amounts of loperamide - be careful man. I got some panadeine forte (codeine 30mg) from my shrink to help with bupe withdrawal. I thought I was cruising and then I stopped the codeine - and instantly went right back into withdrawal. It's likely that the loperamide is simply substituting for the bupe.

 

[Mrs C]

I agree, Bojangles69, the lack of sleep is the worse thing ever!

My RLS just keeps on and on! I used a Tens machine (the sticky pads either side of each calf muscle, any advice of where best to stick them - so to speak! - would be welcome) these last few nights and have to say it really has helped! I just hope it continues as I feel much better for some longer stretches of sleep!!

 

[Fentanyl_Eater]

Bupe withdrawal has the most wildly different experiences on anything! I fear coming off

 

[clifford]

When I got off suboxone I had been on it for 2 years or so, I had a prescription for ultram, a non narcotic pain reliever for a previous knee surgery. I found that taking them really took the edge off o the w/d's which by the way weren't too bad, mild discomfort, malaise, sluggishness etc. Not bad enough to incapacitate, but bad enough to throw a wrench in my day. As I understand, ultram is some derivative or is an opiod base but doesn't act on the body as do narcotics. It's probably debatable, but your not supposed to be able to become defendant on ultram, and for me it really did help get through those final days. Plus, since it's categorized as a non narcotic I had no problem gettin the doc to write me the Rx. The best advice is try not to anticipate the w/d. It's a he'll of a lot worse when you are expecting the worst. I've said it before, I had forgotten to take my subs plenty of times and only felt sick when I remembered. Sometimes even 2 days would go by, remember I didn't take it and then feel sick. Best of luck to ya buddy

 

[Heroin Girl]

I'm on day 8 of sub withdrawal, and it's the worst day so far. Tapered down to .5mg, but I should've stayed at that dose longer I think...I was on subs for a little over 2 months after 6 months on methadone. Previously I was an IV heroin+fent user and tried using subs once before a couple years ago.

So far, it's manageable with lots of comfort meds - I would def recommend kratom and phenibut, which can be ordered easily/cheaply, and lots of weed.

Mostly I've been using a kratom tincture, small amounts of loperamide (no more than 3 at once) tons of phenazepam, 3-4g of phenibut (take 2g daily normally), and Ambien for sleep - which normally makes RLS and such worse for me but have been quite helpful during sub w/d. I'm also smoking about 3 bowls of dank a day, and it provides a ton of relief. Also taking vitamins and supplements, including Black Seed Oil and a Chinese herbal blend for w/d.

Eating's been easy, for the most part. I've experiences a lot of withdrawals, and imo the more you can eat the better - preferably healthy, balanced meals but any food should be better than nothing.

I have a few Neurontin, clonidine, and clonazepam left, wish I had more, would def rec asking your dr for them, if you have one that isn't a total douche.

Despite all the comfort meds, I still have a lot of emotional effects from withdrawal and terrible cravings, GI issues, mild to moderate sleep paralysis/RLS, and hot/cold flashes. The kratom is a lifesaver, but it's getting expensive.

Can anyone give me an idea of how long this withdrawal should last and/or when the symptoms will become more mild?

 

[maximumstrength2]

I was on suboxone for over a year started at 16mg a day and tapered down. when i decided to quit i was taking the same dose as you .5mg and I have to say i did not experience any w/d's at all other then a slight case of the shits that only lasted 2 days> so i think it is safe to say you are in the clear but everybody is different

 

[Pegasus]

I'm on day 8 of sub withdrawal, and it's the worst day so far. Tapered down to .5mg, but I should've stayed at that dose longer I think...I was on subs for a little over 2 months after 6 months on methadone. Previously I was an IV heroin+fent user and tried using subs once before a couple years ago.

So far, it's manageable with lots of comfort meds - I would def recommend kratom and phenibut, which can be ordered easily/cheaply, and lots of weed.

Mostly I've been using a kratom tincture, small amounts of loperamide (no more than 3 at once) tons of phenazepam, 3-4g of phenibut (take 2g daily normally), and Ambien for sleep - which normally makes RLS and such worse for me but have been quite helpful during sub w/d. I'm also smoking about 3 bowls of dank a day, and it provides a ton of relief. Also taking vitamins and supplements, including Black Seed Oil and a Chinese herbal blend for w/d.

Eating's been easy, for the most part. I've experiences a lot of withdrawals, and imo the more you can eat the better - preferably healthy, balanced meals but any food should be better than nothing.

I have a few Neurontin, clonidine, and clonazepam left, wish I had more, would def rec asking your dr for them, if you have one that isn't a total douche.

Despite all the comfort meds, I still have a lot of emotional effects from withdrawal and terrible cravings, GI issues, mild to moderate sleep paralysis/RLS, and hot/cold flashes. The kratom is a lifesaver, but it's getting expensive.

Can anyone give me an idea of how long this withdrawal should last and/or when the symptoms will become more mild?

Every day from here out will probably be better. I'd say after two weeks, you should feel a good bit better, and after three weeks, even better. Just keep using the kratom as needed if you can afford it, it really is the best thing IMO. Maybe try a different type of kratom... from the way you're describing withdrawal, it sounds worse than it should with kratom assistance. You say you're using a tincture; I recommend getting Bali kratom leaf powder and putting it into capsules. It's way cheaper and much more effective than pretty much any extract out there.

Good luck