Opioids Buprenorphine dose question, any info welcome

[papercuts]

I think I might have raised my tolerance by plugging something that was up to 110mg buprenorphine, but actually I used some before of this mix and so it was less and my extraction is far from perfect so maybe 60mg is more accurate. I just really needed some time off, and that does it beautifully. If H is bliss and pods are love then buprenorphine is peace. Subtle differences and I had no pods for 48 hours with zero withdrawal symptoms! There is a ceiling, but you can drift along that ceiling for days if you get it right.
I'm usually careful with bupe because although the overdose risk is really low compared to other things, my understanding is narcon won't reverse it if it happens. Not that I have any narcon anway, just an epi-pen which might work, but I diverge.
I'm just wondering how much bupe is too much for a small female with a couple of years of tolerance?
I think in future I'll make a solution from 100mg as a max, then I'll know it's ok, whatever is in there will take me to the ceiling and it's a damn decent ceiling imo, but won't take me over because it can't contain more than I add. I've heard of 96mg being given in one shot before in a medical setting and it works against cravings for days, it's surprisingly good for pod dependance too, usually that's a bugger for withdrawals, like I would know, I seem to spend my life trying to avoid them.

 

[bingey]

For me anything over 16 mg IV didnt seem to increase effects..

 

[papercuts]

For me anything over 16 mg IV didnt seem to increase effects..

I think the duration is longer, it hangs around in the body until it finally gets used, for me that is uninterupted pain relief on top of feeling nice

 

[Xorkoth]

That is a tremendously high dose, though as you said, really all it will do is last longer if you keep pushing the dose higher, because it will be more half-lives until it's out of your system. But I think it would be more efficient if you took a LOT less, and dosed it daily. I am nearly certain it would keep you withdrawal free for longer.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

If I remember after 30ish mg (maybe less) you don’t get any more relief from wd, iv only gone over 16mg once or twice cause it was obviously just a waist of sub…if 30mg don’t pull you out of wd your just gonna have to wait it out till you level off

 

[Nas47]

Why to take such huge doses Pappercuts?Are u chasin' high from bupe?It's just maintaince drug....have painkilling properties on it's own,but it's usefulness reveals,when u don't wanna feel high on opies anymore....just without withdrawls and capable for everyday activities.If u wanna get high why u don't quitt bupre and just stick to pods?

 

[Keif' Richards]

I've met a lot of people who have similar experiences with drugs like Buprenorphine and/or Methadone. Based upon the literature I have read, conversations with medical people and the combined experiences of all the people I've met, there is almost definitely a "ceiling" with Buprenorphine. If you're trying to use Buprenorphine for recreational purposes, the best way is to methodically dose consistently with the very lowest dose required. Buprenorphine has a higher proportion of action upon the Mu Opioid receptor at lower doses, basically not over 3mg and ideally, less than 1mg. At higher dosages, it begins to act on the other "undesirable" Opioid receptors.

In theory, this is great. In practice, the addictive nature of Opioids and the near-inevitable progression of craving make this idea pretty unfeasible. Any person desiring relief through Opioids is highly liable to lose control of their dosing scheme. The nature of the addictive drive is based upon this "I can squeeze just one more out of this, then I'll change". You take a little more each time until you realize you've gone so far you might as well give up, as you have by taking 100mg Buprenorphine in a sitting. It doesn't make sense to me.

My opinion is that you should focus on reducing your dosage. You might be able to once again acquire a normal pattern of usage from the Buprenorphine and I believe you will probably feel much better both physically and mentally. Let us know if you want to talk about that.

 

[papercuts]

Why to take such huge doses Pappercuts?Are u chasin' high from bupe?It's just maintaince drug....have painkilling properties on it's own,but it's usefulness reveals,when u don't wanna feel high on opies anymore....just without withdrawls and capable for everyday activities.If u wanna get high why u don't quitt bupre and just stick to pods?

I guess I get bored is all, plus my mom been upsetting me, I wanted to get really numb and bupe does that. I had this liquid I'd forgotton about and it did what I wanted it to do.
I'll change my extraction method so I know the max in each one rather than an estimate of the actual amount of bupe, which has no accuracy. Knowing the max is safe and I knew 96mg is safe with a tolerance because it has been tried out as a one time shot that lasts up to five days giving relief from wd symptoms. I got to 48 hours before needing anything else, but I made no attempt to go longer. So say for example I need to fly to somewhere, I could do it without bringing anything with me, well it gives me a two day window anyway.
The more I can find out, the better I can manage it, y'know, I see bupre and pods being in my life for a long time to come. Those are the only opies I trust atm, people in my city are fucking falling like flies from fent (we assume that's the reason). Initially I accepted buprenorphine patches from the doctor hoping to stop pods, a couple of years back, it didn't pan out that way. I've a pain condition and a history with dope they don't know about, complicated. I turned down the fentanyl patches they offered me, I was kinda proud of myself for that!
I'm assuming I get a full extraction somewhere. I read that buprenorphine dissolves in water best, but I soak it in 96% ethanol first to loosen it from it's matrix, then soak it in water after. By then I got some glue gunge in a neat ball floating in water that goes a little cloudy white. The ethanol goes yellow. I'll keep it to 40mg for each pair of jars then that is a single booster dose for when I want to go without pods for a day or two.
So I dried off the ethanol, adding water instead for plugging (made that mistake before, ethanol brings tears to the eyes, understatement). I've not done it with a clear enough head to work out yet whether the bupe ends up in the tiny jar of water or the tiny jar of ethanol. Anyone know?

At higher dosages, it begins to act on the other "undesirable" Opioid receptors.

What are the undesirable opioid receptors? Do you mean like nausea?

 

[Keif' Richards]

I guess I get bored is all, plus my mom been upsetting me, I wanted to get really numb and bupe does that. I had this liquid I'd forgotton about and it did what I wanted it to do.
I'll change my extraction method so I know the max in each one rather than an estimate of the actual amount of bupe, which has no accuracy. Knowing the max is safe and I knew 96mg is safe with a tolerance because it has been tried out as a one time shot that lasts up to five days giving relief from wd symptoms. I got to 48 hours before needing anything else, but I made no attempt to go longer. So say for example I need to fly to somewhere, I could do it without bringing anything with me, well it gives me a two day window anyway.
The more I can find out, the better I can manage it, y'know, I see bupre and pods being in my life for a long time to come. Those are the only opies I trust atm, people in my city are fucking falling like flies from fent (we assume that's the reason). Initially I accepted buprenorphine patches from the doctor hoping to stop pods, a couple of years back, it didn't pan out that way. I've a pain condition and a history with dope they don't know about, complicated. I turned down the fentanyl patches they offered me, I was kinda proud of myself for that!
I'm assuming I get a full extraction somewhere. I read that buprenorphine dissolves in water best, but I soak it in 96% ethanol first to loosen it from it's matrix, then soak it in water after. By then I got some glue gunge in a neat ball floating in water that goes a little cloudy white. The ethanol goes yellow. I'll keep it to 40mg for each pair of jars then that is a single booster dose for when I want to go without pods for a day or two.
So I dried off the ethanol, adding water instead for plugging (made that mistake before, ethanol brings tears to the eyes, understatement). I've not done it with a clear enough head to work out yet whether the bupe ends up in the tiny jar of water or the tiny jar of ethanol. Anyone know?

What are the undesirable opioid receptors? Do you mean like nausea?

There are various receptors in the brain and digestive system known as Opioid receptors. There are a few confirmed and there are still others yet to be pegged down or verified. The important thing, when we're talking about "getting high" is the Mu Opioid receptor. This is the "feel good" receptor. There are other receptors, also named after Greek Letters like the Delta Receptor, the Kappa Receptor and the Sigma Receptor. These all have various functions and some are quite beneficial. But if you're trying to get high, you're basically looking for the strongest Mu receptor agonist you can find and the archetype would be Morphine/Heroin

Let's take a look now at Buprenorphine. It has a high binding rate to the Mu receptor, but a low level of action. This means it will occupy the receptor effectively, but there are other Opioids, Morphine for instance, that will bind well and also have a high level of activity at the site. This is the biggest factor that I believe leads to situations like yours. You're getting a little taste, then you keep chasing that taste until you find yourself completely and utterly saturated with Buprenorphine to the point you have a high tolerance but can't get any practical, subjective effect from the drug.

The same thing happens with Heroin if you use enough of it. I've had points in my life in which I basically had as much Heroin as I could consume and after nine months, I would find myself in a similar situation to yours. With Buprenorphine though, the pharmacokinetics of the drug make this scenario much more likely, which is why it is so prevalent.

In addition to this, higher dosages of Buprenorphine begin to involve the Kappa receptor. For reference's sake, the Kappa Opioid receptor is involved in the pharmacokinetics of the drug Salvia Divinorum, widely reputed as a negative experience. In short, as you raise the dose, you involve more and more of this receptor that isn't doing any of the things you're after.

 

[Nas47]

I guess I get bored is all, plus my mom been upsetting me, I wanted to get really numb and bupe does that. I had this liquid I'd forgotton about and it did what I wanted it to do.
I'll change my extraction method so I know the max in each one rather than an estimate of the actual amount of bupe, which has no accuracy. Knowing the max is safe and I knew 96mg is safe with a tolerance because it has been tried out as a one time shot that lasts up to five days giving relief from wd symptoms. I got to 48 hours before needing anything else, but I made no attempt to go longer. So say for example I need to fly to somewhere, I could do it without bringing anything with me, well it gives me a two day window anyway.
The more I can find out, the better I can manage it, y'know, I see bupre and pods being in my life for a long time to come. Those are the only opies I trust atm, people in my city are fucking falling like flies from fent (we assume that's the reason). Initially I accepted buprenorphine patches from the doctor hoping to stop pods, a couple of years back, it didn't pan out that way. I've a pain condition and a history with dope they don't know about, complicated. I turned down the fentanyl patches they offered me, I was kinda proud of myself for that!
I'm assuming I get a full extraction somewhere. I read that buprenorphine dissolves in water best, but I soak it in 96% ethanol first to loosen it from it's matrix, then soak it in water after. By then I got some glue gunge in a neat ball floating in water that goes a little cloudy white. The ethanol goes yellow. I'll keep it to 40mg for each pair of jars then that is a single booster dose for when I want to go without pods for a day or two.
So I dried off the ethanol, adding water instead for plugging (made that mistake before, ethanol brings tears to the eyes, understatement). I've not done it with a clear enough head to work out yet whether the bupe ends up in the tiny jar of water or the tiny jar of ethanol. Anyone know?

What are the undesirable opioid receptors? Do you mean like nausea?

What type patches u got to use?Personaly here ain't got those that changed on week(the weaker ones),but only those on 3 days.They are different type of matrix systems.I personaly used half patch 52.5mcg/h(30mg whole containing bupr.).Everytime i was very curious why they used such big quantity bupr.-'cause from this ammount you got only about 4mg for three days....but transedrmal bioavailability of bupre is very low-about 15 percent only.I made extractions after i removed my half patch after 3 days.The rest soaked in spiritus 95 percent for three days.....so never sure about extracted ammounts-first,because it is already used&second not sure what ammount of bupr. is exctracted.But in best case i got no more than 4 mg daily....just never had pill to compare the potency....guess i exctracted much,much less.Never got some glue gunge or something similar-just ordinary spirit.,which i used sublingually.That's all.Yes concominant with this used small amounts of pods from about a month,but quit before couple of days.Got day or two light withdrawls.....just no use to drink tea,while on patch,cause i need twice more....and no such big fan like before.Got urge to use only,when demons invade me and even then don't feel nothing no matter of quantity,no feel effect of alc.too in such cases.Just desperate effort to do something....vut drugs or alc.did not help in such cases.They did absolutely nothing to ease the horror.....and when i am ok i don't have any desire to do drugs or to drink....so just got my two diazepams&around 4mg bupr. in best case scenario&do my job.....and feeling grateful.That's it.Can't explain no one understand.....except someone ,who is goin' through simmilar war.Keep safe friend&be well

 

[papercuts]

What type patches u got to use?Personaly here ain't got those that changed on week(the weaker ones),but only those on 3 days.They are different type of matrix systems.I personaly used half patch 52.5mcg/h(40mg whole containing bupr.).Everytime i was very curious why they used such big quantity bupr.-'cause from this ammount you got only about 4mg for three days....but transedrmal bioavailability of bupre is very low-about 15 percent only.I made extractions after i removed my half patch after 3 days.The rest soaked in spiritus 95 percent for three days.....so never sure about extracted ammounts-first,because it is already used&second not sure what ammount of bupr. is exctracted.But in best case i got no more than 4 mg daily....just never had pill to compare the potency....guess i exctracted much,much less.Never got some glue gunge or something similar-just ordinary spirit.,which i used sublingually.That's all.Yes concominant with this used small amounts of pods from about a month,but quit before couple of days.Got day or two light withdrawls.....just no use to drink tea,while on patch,cause i need twice more....and no such big fan like before.Got urge to use only,when demons invade me and even then don't feel nothing no matter of quantity,no feel effect of alc.too in such cases.Just desperate effort to do something....vut drugs or alc.did not help in such cases.They did absolutely nothing to ease the horror.....and when i am ok i don't have any desire to do drugs or to drink....so just got my two diazepams&around 4mg bupr. in best case scenario&do my job.....and feeling grateful.That's it.Can't explain no one understand.....except someone ,who is goin' through simmilar war.Keep safe friend&be well

I get 10mg patches, one a week from the doctor, sometimes more if they get lost, they are nice, but wear it for a week and most of the good stuff is still in the patch, mine seems to be a layer of drug infused glue over a strip of plastic inside the patch. Remove the strip and the glue dissolves completely in ethanol & water, becomes a cloudy white mixture, nothing is missed, it's glue and bupe so that's for plugging.
Recently I can keep the glue as a solid piece floating in the water, so it is much clearer solution, strained, it goes sublingually but isn't nearly as effective, so I tried chewing on the glue bits (ain't this getting yummy ) and that did zero, so the bupre didn't end up there, lol.
I got more ethanol so I don't need to reuse the same splash any more, that last splash must be completely saturated by now, having loosened the glue on dozens of patches while ethanol was unavailable here. My husband will need to eat more marmalade now, I get those miniature 30ml jars, 30 cents a jar and the marmalade comes for free, lol.
I keep thinking if I put as much effort into my work as I put into my medicating, I'd be rich, but I wouldn't really be me.
So I'll use a new jar for ethanol and replace the liquid in the "splash" with water. It's clear yellow, shouldn't buprenorphine be white? Did the patches absorb some of my jaundice? I'm plugging some before my operation in 12 days unless they say I can have sedation, I'd rather their sedation, both might be a bad idea.
Definitely feel grateful, I've my husband and my sons and enough food and warmth to live and my meds just got delivered to my doorstep this morning

 

[Nas47]

Glad that u feel goodpapercuts.I soaked only used patches....so there isn't glue in them(or at least minimal ammount)...and yes using patch bucally didn't work for me also(unlike fent patches)idk why.I suggest that these patches for week usage are different type of matrix no matter that they looked exactly the same.They are weaker(Butrans)-from 5 to 20mg in patch.These changed on three days are stronger- 20,30&40mgs in each.You can use it transdermal,if u want and after than can extract what is left....but how much is left i don't know and there is no way to be sure exactly how much is left.Yes you can calculate,but that is very relative

 

[papercuts]

Just to update, I stopped using buprenorphine at all, my pod use went up at the same time, no heroics here, and I'm using about 30g pod a day which according to the united nations narcotics control report on poppy straw of 1961 ought to yield 48mg morphine among other alkaloids.

It doesn't sound high enough, it's comforting to think that is all I'm taking, but if true why so impossible to quit? Maybe they're stronger now than in 1961?

I've not had a number to work with before, 48 mg of morphine also equates to two of my buprenorphine patches.

So I'll get Christmas and new year over then start being good, I quit all of January and Feb last year, just kratom and weed with my patches.

How long should I wait for the pods to get out of my system before putting on my first patch?
I'm thinking 36 hours?
I'll wear three, but just one new patch each day so I don't get precipitated withdrawal.

 

[Xorkoth]

In my experience, pods are usually stronger than that. Although 48mg of morphine isn't a tiny dose, it also isn't very large at all.

However, that said, any amount of morphine is hard to quit. Pods in particular have a very intense and long lasting withdrawal, due to the large number of alkaloids, of which at least several are addictive.

I'd wait at least 36 hours. The patch should start entering your system slowly, though, I believe. So that will probably help avoid PWD, too, rather than the whole dose hitting you at once and instantly displacing whatever morphine/etc may be remaining in the receptors.

 

[papercuts]

In my experience, pods are usually stronger than that.

That is why I'm confused. This morning I woke up with the usual symptoms of a dropping level of morphine, ground some pods (sorry to the neighbours, I know it was 5.30am, but if I grind pods in advance I've this habit of using them in advance too), weighed the powder, 34g, that'll do today.
Went to the loo (pods suit my metabolism that way, levels drop by morning and I can go, then it's time to get levels back up).

Only 9g of that went in the coffee maker, I've downed it and seriously got a smile on my face and difficulty typing now due to a slight nod. So if that 9g only contains 1.6x9=14.4mg, that's an oxy10 or 12 hours wearing a patch and I'm not going to feel like this after just one coffee pot full, not after the years I've been doing this.

I'd love to have a good way to estimate the morphine content, but even grinding them a few days before cooking seems to reduce potency.

Four weeks to psyche myself up to quitting, but times like right now I wonder why I want to quit at all, so I've got to write down my reasons and attach it to where the pods are. In fact that will be essential because my mind is blank of reasons why and I'm going back to bed. First one of the day always the best.

 

[papercuts]

The other way of working out the morphine would be to say a pod is 10% opium and opium is 15%morphine, so 1.5% of the total pod weight of 9g is 90x1.5mg=135mg morphine in my coffee pot.
The similarity between the two numbers makes me think the decimal place been misplaced somewhere in one of them.
Could the united nations have lied to make poppy straw sound worthless to us interested parties?

 

[Xorkoth]

Well, each pod is different. Some pods are really strong and some are weak. Say you buy a pound of poppies. Half of them might be 3 times stronger than the other half. To ensure you always have the same strength, you would typically grind the whole pound up and once and mix the grounds together really well. I have never noticed a loss of potency this way but I guess you do.

Without doing that, it's a crapshoot. You might just have gotten some really strong pods

 

[papercuts]

I've two types here, well, from two sources, they are similar to each other except one bag wasn't dried as much, so I've leathery pods and crisp pods. I prefer the crisp pods, they are more instantly uplifting, the leathery pods are a bit dirtier feeling, sludgy in the brain. I just love pods and I'd love to learn all about them, but the info is hard to come by or hard to believe. I'm going to have a hard time quitting these again.

 

[Nas47]

Just to update, I stopped using buprenorphine at all, my pod use went up at the same time, no heroics here, and I'm using about 30g pod a day which according to the united nations narcotics control report on poppy straw of 1961 ought to yield 48mg morphine among other alkaloids.

It doesn't sound high enough, it's comforting to think that is all I'm taking, but if true why so impossible to quit? Maybe they're stronger now than in 1961?

I've not had a number to work with before, 48 mg of morphine also equates to two of my buprenorphine patches.

So I'll get Christmas and new year over then start being good, I quit all of January and Feb last year, just kratom and weed with my patches.

How long should I wait for the pods to get out of my system before putting on my first patch?
I'm thinking 36 hours?
I'll wear three, but just one new patch each day so I don't get precipitated withdrawal.

Can't make any account in such case..but if u use,better use only one-bupr.or pod.bupr is longer actin,partial agonist.lack the warm feeling of pod..but withdrawl frop pod is also long,painful one crazy one

 

[SuziLiz]

I get 10mg patches, one a week from the doctor, sometimes more if they get lost, they are nice, but wear it for a week and most of the good stuff is still in the patch, mine seems to be a layer of drug infused glue over a strip of plastic inside the patch. Remove the strip and the glue dissolves completely in ethanol & water, becomes a cloudy white mixture, nothing is missed, it's glue and bupe so that's for plugging.
Recently I can keep the glue as a solid piece floating in the water, so it is much clearer solution, strained, it goes sublingually but isn't nearly as effective, so I tried chewing on the glue bits (ain't this getting yummy ) and that did zero, so the bupre didn't end up there, lol.
I got more ethanol so I don't need to reuse the same splash any more, that last splash must be completely saturated by now, having loosened the glue on dozens of patches while ethanol was unavailable here. My husband will need to eat more marmalade now, I get those miniature 30ml jars, 30 cents a jar and the marmalade comes for free, lol.
I keep thinking if I put as much effort into my work as I put into my medicating, I'd be rich, but I wouldn't really be me.
So I'll use a new jar for ethanol and replace the liquid in the "splash" with water. It's clear yellow, shouldn't buprenorphine be white? Did the patches absorb some of my jaundice? I'm plugging some before my operation in 12 days unless they say I can have sedation, I'd rather their sedation, both might be a bad idea.
Definitely feel grateful, I've my husband and my sons and enough food and warmth to live and my meds just got delivered to my doorstep this morning

Can you explain this more? I am on a 20mcg buprenorphine patch for a month. The drug is still usable after a week??? The patch is for severe chronic pain. I was on kratom for 7 years before this patch and honestly, the kratom works better. I'm not looking to get high but have mute c pain relief.
Thanks