Bupe + codeine

[Quinine121]

Hey

So I’m a pretty heavy codine and dhc user usually around 1g a day 2x 500-600mg etc

I have chronic pain and have tried most opiates and pro gaba drugs etc

Anyway I have a box of buprenorphine patches 10cmg per hour

I’ve never tried this opiate so I’m not a 100% up to speed .

Anyways my nice lady dr thinks I should use this and then DHC for breakthrough pain

But upon reading it seems this patch can initiate opitate withdrawals ??

That’s something I deft don’t want at this stage in life .

Also for using bupe for rec purposes what would be the safest and easiest way to use ? I think chewing the patch perhaps ? But I don’t want to o/d and or develop a bupe addiction on top of the DHC/COD

Any help or info / advice is MOST appreciated.

 

[NickyG302]

Bupe alone won’t send you into withdrawal. If it has naloxone in it which would be suboxone it could possibly send you into withdrawal if you have used opiates 6 hours prior to. But if it’s just bupe you won’t have any issue. The patch will do its job.

 

[Quinine121]

Hi Nicky,

Thanks yes it’s just bupe no suboxne
As I’m using codines and DHC every day as well what’s the safe way to enjoy the bupe high without o/d or having too much in my system ? would it be to to wear the patch and take my DHC / codine as normal 500-600mg 2 x a day

I heard bupe high is pretty tame from what I’ve read ...

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Bupe alone won’t send you into withdrawal. If it has naloxone in it which would be suboxone it could possibly send you into withdrawal if you have used opiates 6 hours prior to. But if it’s just bupe you won’t have any issue. The patch will do its job.

That's wrong, buprenorphine can cause precipitated withdrawal as it's only a partial mu-opioid receptor agonist

 

[one.blonde.mom.0212]

I have been on buprenorphine 8mg 3x/day for 4 years...actually to treat PTSD after a near fatal assault. nevertheless I haven't had any opiates since then. tripped today and broke my foot in 5 places and it hurts like a bitch. dr gave me pain pills and said after 12hours without subtext I'd be fine to take the pills. its not that I don't trust him, but he's the same douchebag who said buprenorphine isn't addicting ? how long do I really need to wait before I can take the pain pills without throwing myself into withdrawal symptoms? thanks

 

[Ganjcat]

I have been on buprenorphine 8mg 3x/day for 4 years...actually to treat PTSD after a near fatal assault. nevertheless I haven't had any opiates since then. tripped today and broke my foot in 5 places and it hurts like a bitch. dr gave me pain pills and said after 12hours without subtext I'd be fine to take the pills. its not that I don't trust him, but he's the same douchebag who said buprenorphine isn't addicting ? how long do I really need to wait before I can take the pain pills without throwing myself into withdrawal symptoms? thanks

you will know its time when you are withdrawing

 

[evo4ever]

Man your Codeine/DHC intake is way too high. It would be logical to switch to a more potent opioid at a much lower dose like Oxycodone or Morphine. I can't believe your getting scripted (if you r getting scripted) 1g of the stuff! In the the UK doctors follow a "pain ladder" rule, if one painkiller doesn't work or if dose escelation is occuring you switch them to the next more potent opioid on the ladder. I suffer from Neuropathy in my left arm and my pain meds were prescribed in the following fashion:

1st. Codeine/Paracetamol - Didn't work.
2nd. Tramadol - Didn't work.
3rd. Dihydrocodeine - Worked for a week @ 120mg daily, then dropped it.
4th. Morphine; Tried Oramorph and ZoMorph - Didn't work.
5th. Longtec (Oxycodone Extended Release) - Tried 10mg, 20mg, 30mg, 40mg, all never worked.
6th. Shortec (Oxycodone Instant Release) - Started at 5mg didnt work, 10mg didnt work, 20mg worked for about 6 months then stopped working. Now I'm on 30mg 4x a day (120mg daily) and it works a treat.

I take Pregabalin along side it and they work well together.

U should really talk to your doctor about your current intake of weak opioids.

 

[GlutamateTheory]

I've used both for treatment resistant severe anxiety. It feels like chronic pain but it's not. Doctors always tell me that saying it as chronic pain is a great example. They now understand.
First was codeine 150 mg per day for few years. I am extremely sensitive to opiates. That's a very low dose.
Second came Suboxone. It's something like 0,2 - 0,5 mg per day. Intranasally.
I tried 8 mg and HOLY MOLY it's strong! :O
Anyway, buprenorphine or Suboxone has been the best antidepressant I've ever had. It's in development for Treatment Resistant Depression. Very interesting!
Today I'm in the process of stopping it. It's not a long term solution for a condition that isn't chronic pain.

Peace

 

[ChivaKing86]

I’d wait 24 hours at least. Once you’re in pretty bad withdrawal you can take the pain pills. But since you’ve been on 24 mgs a day for 4 years I’d give it at least a full day before taking the opiates. Hope this helps.

 

[assurdo888]

Bupe alone won’t send you into withdrawal. If it has naloxone in it which would be suboxone it could possibly send you into withdrawal if you have used opiates 6 hours prior to. But if it’s just bupe you won’t have any issue. The patch will do its job.

It's a wrong and dangerous info! I don't wanna sound like an asshole, butit must be clear that BUPE ALONE CAN AND WILL SEND AN OPIOID AGONIST DEPENDENT PERSON INTO PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWAL: every product containing bupe must be taken when you're already withdrawing. There could be exceptions to this rule, for example i remember from the past that when we run out of H some of my buddies used to shoot up Subutex or Suboxone before being in harsh abstinence, but they were, as above said, exceptions, and me, i almost never did. I once snorted just 1 mg plain bupe, while feeling still well from the past night (had an afghan heroin so good and powerful that i woke up not even high, but feeling great like a non-using person feels when he/she sleeps well and wakes up happy and serene), and in less than a hour i went into percipitated withdrawal. Fortunately i had some smack that i used to save, planning to keep it for the next weekend, and after a couple of snorts i felt good again. BUT NEVER EVER ADVICE ANYONE TAKING BUPE ON TOP OF AGONISTS/BEFORE WITHDRAWAL KICKS IN , NO MATTER IF IT'S A NON-NALOXONE-CONTAINING PRODUCT. I also imagine that, while if you put on a bupe patch and remove it immediately as you start feeling sick, if you don't notice almost immediately something wrong, it could truly fuck you up worse than a lil sub. I hope i made it clear to everybody. Be well, stay safe.

 

[assurdo888]

@GlutamateTheory "I've used both for treatment resistant severe anxiety. It feels like chronic pain but it's not". WELL, IT COULD EASILY BE FYBRO, WHEN ANXIETY FEELS LIKE CHRONIC PAIN - IN FACT, IT OFTEN IS. My anxiety comes along with some atypical neuropathy, and colon/intestine disorders, and other issues as well, hence the diagnosis of fybro. As a former heroin/bupe addict, i've been directly put on oxycodone and, boy, as long as they haven't raised my dosage to an embarassing level, i kept on relapsing in heroin and bupe, getting hydromorphone and methadone as well sometimes, and the relatively weak but SO LOVELY DHC. Anxiety causes pain, not only on a mental level, with time it becomes actually pain, and we could say that a condition of chronic pain will cause anxiety as well: in my country we have a proverb that says "the dog bites its tail", and i have an impression that said proverb does exists in other countries as well. And fybro and anxiety fuelling each other are just the case of the dog that bites its tail. So thank your doc(s), and i thank mine, 'cos they've been sensitive enough to understand that sometimes there is no difference between mental and physical pain. And nowadays, with the global cliamate of stigma and terror on drugs, it's not something that you can take for granted. I'M NOT BY ANY MEANS SUGGESTING THAT IT'S COOL TO BE DEPENDING ON ADDICTIVE MOLECULES, BE THEM OPIOIDS, PSYCHMEDS OF KIND, GABAPENTINOIDS, ETC., I'M JUST STATING THAT SOME OF US REALLY NEED AN OPIOID/OPIATE IN ORDER TO LIVE A NORMAL, FUNCTIONAL LIFE. You see, I also suffer from atypical depression and borderline personality, maybe in my childhood i had tourett'es and authism sympthoms as well, and it's a shame that opioids can't be prescribed as plain psychmeds. I'M ALSO CONSCIOUS THAT WHILE ON A PHYSICAL LEVEL OPIES ARE WAY MORE SAFE THAN, SAY, MOST NSAID OR LOTS OF PSYCHMEDS, NO MATTER WHAT DRUG WARMONGERS TRY TO IMPOSE AS TRUTH, SOME OF THEM CAN WORSEN OR CAUSE PATHOLOGIES, AS I AM VERY CONCERNED WITH STATING THE TRUTH ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BARRICADE. For example, i scored legal clean morphine just twice, and used it like three to five days in a row the first time and a little more than a week the second time, with breaks of one or two days, being on a dose of methadone (20 mg) that could keep wothdrawals at bay but let me feel the other opioids, and i've noticed that the golden standard of opies, while being a wonderful med, in my peculiar situation affected me in a way that risked worsening my depression, had i taken it for a longer time. DHC is a drug that i really love, i consider it to be the entheogen of opioids, but if i don't take a bit of h, methadone or oxy along with it not only i'll be dope-sick, but i'll also feel depressed like i used to before i started using opies. One last thing: please note that various psychmeds are used as an adjunctive aid in combating chronic pain, from anticonvulsivant mood stabilizers to benzos to antidepressants, even antipsychotics sometimes, and that says it all: chronic pain is better off treated also under a mental point of view, and many mental issues need to be recognized and healed as pain-causing conditions. Be well, be safe, have fun!!!...

 

[GlutamateTheory]

@GlutamateTheory "I've used both for treatment resistant severe anxiety. It feels like chronic pain but it's not". WELL, IT COULD EASILY BE FYBRO, WHEN ANXIETY FEELS LIKE CHRONIC PAIN - IN FACT, IT OFTEN IS. My anxiety comes along with some atypical neuropathy, and colon/intestine disorders, and other issues as well, hence the diagnosis of fybro. As a former heroin/bupe addict, i've been directly put on oxycodone and, boy, as long as they haven't raised my dosage to an embarassing level, i kept on relapsing in heroin and bupe, getting hydromorphone and methadone as well sometimes, and the relatively weak but SO LOVELY DHC. Anxiety causes pain, not only on a mental level, with time it becomes actually pain, and we could say that a condition of chronic pain will cause anxiety as well: in my country we have a proverb that says "the dog bites its tail", and i have an impression that said proverb does exists in other countries as well. And fybro and anxiety fuelling each other are just the case of the dog that bites its tail. So thank your doc(s), and i thank mine, 'cos they've been sensitive enough to understand that sometimes there is no difference between mental and physical pain. And nowadays, with the global cliamate of stigma and terror on drugs, it's not something that you can take for granted. I'M NOT BY ANY MEANS SUGGESTING THAT IT'S COOL TO BE DEPENDING ON ADDICTIVE MOLECULES, BE THEM OPIOIDS, PSYCHMEDS OF KIND, GABAPENTINOIDS, ETC., I'M JUST STATING THAT SOME OF US REALLY NEED AN OPIOID/OPIATE IN ORDER TO LIVE A NORMAL, FUNCTIONAL LIFE. You see, I also suffer from atypical depression and borderline personality, maybe in my childhood i had tourett'es and authism sympthoms as well, and it's a shame that opioids can't be prescribed as plain psychmeds. I'M ALSO CONSCIOUS THAT WHILE ON A PHYSICAL LEVEL OPIES ARE WAY MORE SAFE THAN, SAY, MOST NSAID OR LOTS OF PSYCHMEDS, NO MATTER WHAT DRUG WARMONGERS TRY TO IMPOSE AS TRUTH, SOME OF THEM CAN WORSEN OR CAUSE PATHOLOGIES, AS I AM VERY CONCERNED WITH STATING THE TRUTH ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BARRICADE. For example, i scored legal clean morphine just twice, and used it like three to five days in a row the first time and a little more than a week the second time, with breaks of one or two days, being on a dose of methadone (20 mg) that could keep wothdrawals at bay but let me feel the other opioids, and i've noticed that the golden standard of opies, while being a wonderful med, in my peculiar situation affected me in a way that risked worsening my depression, had i taken it for a longer time. DHC is a drug that i really love, i consider it to be the entheogen of opioids, but if i don't take a bit of h, methadone or oxy along with it not only i'll be dope-sick, but i'll also feel depressed like i used to before i started using opies. One last thing: please note that various psychmeds are used as an adjunctive aid in combating chronic pain, from anticonvulsivant mood stabilizers to benzos to antidepressants, even antipsychotics sometimes, and that says it all: chronic pain is better off treated also under a mental point of view, and many mental issues need to be recognized and healed as pain-causing conditions. Be well, be safe, have fun!!!...

Yes, when I started bupe I've slowly gone worse and worse. I'm going taper it extremely slowly. I don't really crave it that much but the physical withdrawal is terrifying.
I'm prescribed an antipsychotic, anticonvulsant and Lyrica. All of these medications have lost their effectiveness a lot. Also they boost opioids like crazy so my withdrawal is extreme.
When I get off of this shit, at some point I will be bored of my reality and get cravings. Maybe after few months of sobriety. I don't personally believe that if you're an addict you should be 100% sober. I'm just going to quit opioids.
Also smoking or any nicotine will make you towards addiction more. Nicotine is a gateway drug in my opinion so I need to quit that as well. (nicotine changes your dopamine chemistry like amphetamines or any stimulants)
Fibromyalgia could be my real diagnosis, you're right. I also have intestine disorders and myoclonic jerks or what they're called. Twitching of small muscles. I had 2 seizures so there's something not right...

 

[assurdo888]

Yes, when I started bupe I've slowly gone worse and worse. I'm going taper it extremely slowly. I don't really crave it that much but the physical withdrawal is terrifying.
I'm prescribed an antipsychotic, anticonvulsant and Lyrica. All of these medications have lost their effectiveness a lot. Also they boost opioids like crazy so my withdrawal is extreme.
When I get off of this shit, at some point I will be bored of my reality and get cravings. Maybe after few months of sobriety. I don't personally believe that if you're an addict you should be 100% sober. I'm just going to quit opioids.
Also smoking or any nicotine will make you towards addiction more. Nicotine is a gateway drug in my opinion so I need to quit that as well. (nicotine changes your dopamine chemistry like amphetamines or any stimulants)
Fibromyalgia could be my real diagnosis, you're right. I also have intestine disorders and myoclonic jerks or what they're called. Twitching of small muscles. I had 2 seizures so there's something not right...

I apologize for being so late in my answer, these days i had some tasks and then a week of rest, as in my country (Italy) Easter is vacation, and so is april 25 (anniversary of the national deliverance from nazi-fascism). I take your point on nicotine and agree with it a lot. The only way which the hoax of the cannabis as a gateway drug can be real is when it gets you paranoid and so you seek for relief in other substances. Alcohol can be a gateway drug for opies as nothing is better than them for the alcoholic hungover. But if we are to talk about brain chemistry, then yes, nicotine is one of the drugs that affects the brain in a way that opioids will be welcome and complementary. On the other side, i read very often here and on drugs forum and elsewhere that in the US a lot of hard drugs using people does not smoke tobacco, or smokes it time by time, as the anit-smoking campaigns has been very persuasive and the States gone from a 50% of smoking population to a mere 5% circa. It demonstrates that prohibition fails while education wins BTW. Here in Europe instead, we drugs users seem to be inseparable from baccy addiction. But in the States there's another widespread legal and readily available drug that affects the brain chemistry in a way that can predispose it to opies and to other hard drugs: caffeine. It too regulates dopamine, and can open the channels to other dopamine - influencing drugs. Talking about psychmeds and the way they boost opioids, i totally agree on Lyrica, a drug i've never been on, that i just purchased in the black market, and that i like a lot, a drug that on its own is very addictive and whose withdrawal lasts a lot longer than the one from opies. But other anitconvulsivants in my experience don't empower the effects of opies. I'm on Lamictal and, while it goes hand in hand with my oxy IN TERMS OF PLEASURE AND MENTAL CLARITY, it does not potentiate it, it just beautifies it (note that i'm on a low dosage, anyway). When years ago i were on smack instead, and at my first Lamictal cure, i used to skip it as it seemed to reduce its effects, and the same i'd say on valproate (Depakin/Depakote). Antipsychotics can boost opies or partially erase their effects, but i don't speak from personal experience, i've just noticed that some junkies will like it and some won't. The only antipsychotic that boosts them, in my knowledge, is prometazine: notorious as antihistamine, it can also be used as antipsichotic (Google it). Once again, sorry for my delay. Be well, stay safe.

 

[Quinine121]

Man your Codeine/DHC intake is way too high. It would be logical to switch to a more potent opioid at a much lower dose like Oxycodone or Morphine. I can't believe your getting scripted (if you r getting scripted) 1g of the stuff! In the the UK doctors follow a "pain ladder" rule, if one painkiller doesn't work or if dose escelation is occuring you switch them to the next more potent opioid on the ladder. I suffer from Neuropathy in my left arm and my pain meds were prescribed in the following fashion:

1st. Codeine/Paracetamol - Didn't work.
2nd. Tramadol - Didn't work.
3rd. Dihydrocodeine - Worked for a week @ 120mg daily, then dropped it.
4th. Morphine; Tried Oramorph and ZoMorph - Didn't work.
5th. Longtec (Oxycodone Extended Release) - Tried 10mg, 20mg, 30mg, 40mg, all never worked.
6th. Shortec (Oxycodone Instant Release) - Started at 5mg didnt work, 10mg didnt work, 20mg worked for about 6 months then stopped working. Now I'm on 30mg 4x a day (120mg daily) and it works a treat.

I take Pregabalin along side it and they work well together.

U should really talk to your doctor about your current intake of weak opioids.

Hi

Yes I’d love to get some morphine or even better oxies for the pain but the nhs and my dr wants me to go through the hoops

1.) codine works mildly I have to get more than proscribed which is ridiculous 240mg each day lol I can take 600mg+ in one dose
2.) DHC works as well as codine but nasty rebound anxiety
3.) morphine tried it but can’t get a script yet
4.) pregabalin nice but not a strong painkiller
5. Gabapentin fun to feel the nod slight drunk feelings @1200mg
6.) tramadol not effective and chance of serotonin syndrome in higher dosages plus fits
7.) bupe patches want to try but using DHC / codine everyday so not sure if I should ??


I finally have s referral to a pain specialist but my dr warned me they will make me go through pointless hoops i,e amaltriptolne (excuse the spelling) for months before if I’m lucky I will get a measly low morphine dose

I need oxysies or morphine tablets but trying to get the nhs to proscribe is as hard as pulling teeth they are so reluctant to give you anything strong and even asking you feel like they are judging you as an “addict”

Unless you are in hospital after a terrible accident or a dying cancer patient they won’t give you anything but weak oppies ?

 

[Ganjcat]

Hi

Yes I’d love to get some morphine or even better oxies for the pain but the nhs and my dr wants me to go through the hoops

1.) codine works mildly I have to get more than proscribed which is ridiculous 240mg each day lol I can take 600mg+ in one dose
2.) DHC works as well as codine but nasty rebound anxiety
3.) morphine tried it but can’t get a script yet
4.) pregabalin nice but not a strong painkiller
5. Gabapentin fun to feel the nod slight drunk feelings @1200mg
6.) tramadol not effective and chance of serotonin syndrome in higher dosages plus fits
7.) bupe patches want to try but using DHC / codine everyday so not sure if I should ??


I finally have s referral to a pain specialist but my dr warned me they will make me go through pointless hoops i,e amaltriptolne (excuse the spelling) for months before if I’m lucky I will get a measly low morphine dose

I need oxysies or morphine tablets but trying to get the nhs to proscribe is as hard as pulling teeth they are so reluctant to give you anything strong and even asking you feel like they are judging you as an “addict”

Unless you are in hospital after a terrible accident or a dying cancer patient they won’t give you anything but weak oppies ?

you tried taking more codeine dont beleive what they tell you about the ceiling i find new effects up to 3000mg possibly more if your willing to venture through that hole

 

[Quinine121]

you tried taking more codeine dont beleive what they tell you about the ceiling i find new effects up to 3000mg possibly more if your willing to venture through that hole

Hi Pete,

Most I’ve gone is 1500mg over the course of a evening

Slightly more “spaced out” but not worth the cost ymmv

Maybe I should try 700mg + DHC instead I’ve heard it has no ceiling

 

[chicken hoagie]

There is something here that everyone here should understand about buprenorphine..with or without naloxone.

Bupe is a PARTIAL agonist, meaning it can both block and agonise receptors. At lower doses, the blockade is not as pronounced and it acts more as a regular full agonist. However, if you have opioids that are acting very strong at the time being and you take bupe AFTER you have JUST taken something as strong as heroin, the bupe will kick the heroin right out of your receptors and essentially downgrade the agonism..if you have tolerance built up from a strong opioid and you are CURRENTLY high from said opioid, kicking that opioid out of your receptors with bupe could cause temporary withdrawal albeit it will not last long. Taking something minor like codeine is less likely to cause withdrawals when bupe is taken because codeine is fairly weak..but if enough codeine is taken, it is still possible to have a short lived withdrawal from taking bupe immediately after.

This can be totally avoided if you wait for the primary opioid to detach from your receptors and let most of the drug leave your system. I would wait at least 6 hours for most of these short acting opioids..but 12 or more is obviously better. The longer you wait, or the less tolerance you currently have, or the lesser the dose you take of the primary opioid, the better the likelihood taking bupe wont throw you into withdrawals..but even if it does, it will be fairly short lived.

 

[Quinine121]

There is something here that everyone here should understand about buprenorphine..with or without naloxone.

Bupe is a PARTIAL agonist, meaning it can both block and agonise receptors. At lower doses, the blockade is not as pronounced and it acts more as a regular full agonist. However, if you have opioids that are acting very strong at the time being and you take bupe AFTER you have JUST taken something as strong as heroin, the bupe will kick the heroin right out of your receptors and essentially downgrade the agonism..if you have tolerance built up from a strong opioid and you are CURRENTLY high from said opioid, kicking that opioid out of your receptors with bupe could cause temporary withdrawal albeit it will not last long. Taking something minor like codeine is less likely to cause withdrawals when bupe is taken because codeine is fairly weak..but if enough codeine is taken, it is still possible to have a short lived withdrawal from taking bupe immediately after.

This can be totally avoided if you wait for the primary opioid to detach from your receptors and let most of the drug leave your system. I would wait at least 6 hours for most of these short acting opioids..but 12 or more is obviously better. The longer you wait, or the less tolerance you currently have, or the lesser the dose you take of the primary opioid, the better the likelihood taking bupe wont throw you into withdrawals..but even if it does, it will be fairly short lived.

Thanks for that very informative post ? I have to travel and I can’t take enough codeine my “primary oppie” with me .

I thought about 24 hours of no codeine and wearing my bupe patch for the trip which would be 8 days

Would that be long enough to devolope an issue with bupe dependency ?

I don’t fancy swapping codeine dependency for bupe as it’s by all accounts a hard oppie to withdrawal from

 

[chicken hoagie]

Thanks for that very informative post ? I have to travel and I can’t take enough codeine my “primary oppie” with me .

I thought about 24 hours of no codeine and wearing my bupe patch for the trip which would be 8 days

Would that be long enough to devolope an issue with bupe dependency ?

I don’t fancy swapping codeine dependency for bupe as it’s by all accounts a hard oppie to withdrawal from

Ingesting basically one dose of bupe will be unlikely to cause you any sort of withdrawal issues, but with that I will add I have personally seen from friends and myself getting very sick from just one 8mg dose of bupe..doesn't always happen but it can. Bupe is extremely potent and if you got high enough off of it, you could suffer acute but short lived withdrawal..I have had this happen with heroin as well. It will more than likely destroy your tolerance and make the codeine pretty ineffective afterwards though..meaning after you dose with bupe, you will have to wait a few days before wanting to take your codeine again. Bupe is very long lasting and once it occupies your opioid receptors, almost no opioid can kick them out or displace it.

 

[chicken hoagie]

I will also just add really quick that it doesn't make you sick immediately, but likely to make you very sick the majority of the next day after getting a night's rest..this probably wont happen with a lower dose of bupe such as 4mg or less, but with really any opioid if you take a high amount, regardless of having tolerance or no tolerance, hyper-sensitization of receptors can occur from one large dose and can cause you to have acute withdrawals the next day..so to clarify, even if you have no tolerance and havent been taking any opioids, this can happen with any large dose of any opioid. Wait some time for the codeine to leave your system, and I suggest taking no more than 4mg of sublingual bupe if you choose to chew the patch..wearing the patch is a different story..it will slowly release into your bloodstream, so it may take some time before you notice anything.