stonerfromohio
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2006
- Messages
- 723
Something unique to Buddhism is that all the truths postulated are observable I would like to have a discussion on what people think about the truths Buddha expounded and if they disagree with them to give logical, observable arguments as to why what he said is false in your opinion.
I want to start first with the four noble truths the main core of Buddhism:
1. Life means suffering.
To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression. Although there are different degrees of suffering and there are also positive experiences in life that we perceive as the opposite of suffering, such as ease, comfort and happiness, life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow. Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.
3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas. Nirvana is not comprehensible for those who have not attained it.
4. The path to the cessation of suffering.
There is a path to the end of suffering - a gradual path of self-improvement, which is described more detailed in the Eightfold Path. It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object. The path to the end of suffering can extend over many lifetimes, throughout which every individual rebirth is subject to karmic conditioning. Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.
1. Right View Wisdom
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech Ethical Conduct
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort Mental Development
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
So essentially life is suffering because we are born, we age, we have sickness and then we have death and in between that all our loved ones die, everything we worked for passes away. Since we believe ourselves to be static self-existent separate entity's existing independent of other beings and phenomenon we have craving and attachment the reason attachment causes suffering is the fact that everything is passing away and if you are attached to impermanent things of this life then you will be experiencing constant suffering as nothing is permanent and we will be grasping at things which are constantly eluding our grasp. The reason craving causes suffering is the fact that we can never be quenched of our desire indulging in sense pleasures is like drinking salt water, the more we drink the more we crave.
When we extinguish the desire for fleeting sensual pleasure that only causes more desire and attachment then we can be liberated from actions that only cause suffering and bind us even more to the wheel of cause and effect. The eight-fold-path is basically the way out of the wheel of cause and effect by committing actions that lead to liberation rather than suffering. Buddhism is basically a philosophy of life that analyzes our current conditions, anyone can observe that all things are impermanent our lives, our thoughts, the days and nights, our pleasures, conversations, places we live, places we go it all fades away and when you look back its no more real than a dream. Why grasp at things that hold no more reality that dreams? To do that only increases your suffering.
Not only can you observe that all things are impermanent but you can see the lack of genuine satisfaction from chasing fleeting pleasures money, sex, drugs, and food do not provide any lasting happiness they are fleeting pleasures and the more we indulge in them the more bound we become to them. I was a drug user for many years and the more I smoked pot the more I wanted it, the more I tripped on LSD or mushrooms the more I wanted to trip, the more I smoked cigarettes the more I wanted another one, the more I ate expensive food the more I wanted it. So you can observe both these truths in your everyday experience see if you can find anything permanent in your life, see if you can get lasting satisfaction from drugs, money food or sex these truths can be experienced.
If you start on the path to liberation and you experience even moderate release from attachment and desire then you can feel the release that comes from that, you can feel a sense of lasting peace and tranquility that follows. The more we unwind ourselves to our attachments and desires the more happiness that comes about. When we start to follow the eight-fold-path and try and change our thoughts, actions, speech, views, intentions, and daily work into virtuous endeavors then we start to experience more happiness. Buddhism analyzes life and looks at what actions cause suffering and which ones lead to happiness non-virtuous action causes unhappiness and virtuous action causes happiness its that simple.
The reason analyzing the impermanence of all things is important is it allows us to stop chasing our desire for impermanent things and it allows us to not be attach to fleeting forms because they are all passing away. We already analyzed why to follow the 8-fold-path because it leads to virtuous action which leads to happiness.
I could go into emptiness, meditation, karma and rebirth but this is already fairly long id like to hear peoples arguments against these truths, responses, or questions. Thank you for reading.
I want to start first with the four noble truths the main core of Buddhism:
1. Life means suffering.
To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression. Although there are different degrees of suffering and there are also positive experiences in life that we perceive as the opposite of suffering, such as ease, comfort and happiness, life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow. Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.
3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas. Nirvana is not comprehensible for those who have not attained it.
4. The path to the cessation of suffering.
There is a path to the end of suffering - a gradual path of self-improvement, which is described more detailed in the Eightfold Path. It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object. The path to the end of suffering can extend over many lifetimes, throughout which every individual rebirth is subject to karmic conditioning. Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.
1. Right View Wisdom
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech Ethical Conduct
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort Mental Development
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
So essentially life is suffering because we are born, we age, we have sickness and then we have death and in between that all our loved ones die, everything we worked for passes away. Since we believe ourselves to be static self-existent separate entity's existing independent of other beings and phenomenon we have craving and attachment the reason attachment causes suffering is the fact that everything is passing away and if you are attached to impermanent things of this life then you will be experiencing constant suffering as nothing is permanent and we will be grasping at things which are constantly eluding our grasp. The reason craving causes suffering is the fact that we can never be quenched of our desire indulging in sense pleasures is like drinking salt water, the more we drink the more we crave.
When we extinguish the desire for fleeting sensual pleasure that only causes more desire and attachment then we can be liberated from actions that only cause suffering and bind us even more to the wheel of cause and effect. The eight-fold-path is basically the way out of the wheel of cause and effect by committing actions that lead to liberation rather than suffering. Buddhism is basically a philosophy of life that analyzes our current conditions, anyone can observe that all things are impermanent our lives, our thoughts, the days and nights, our pleasures, conversations, places we live, places we go it all fades away and when you look back its no more real than a dream. Why grasp at things that hold no more reality that dreams? To do that only increases your suffering.
Not only can you observe that all things are impermanent but you can see the lack of genuine satisfaction from chasing fleeting pleasures money, sex, drugs, and food do not provide any lasting happiness they are fleeting pleasures and the more we indulge in them the more bound we become to them. I was a drug user for many years and the more I smoked pot the more I wanted it, the more I tripped on LSD or mushrooms the more I wanted to trip, the more I smoked cigarettes the more I wanted another one, the more I ate expensive food the more I wanted it. So you can observe both these truths in your everyday experience see if you can find anything permanent in your life, see if you can get lasting satisfaction from drugs, money food or sex these truths can be experienced.
If you start on the path to liberation and you experience even moderate release from attachment and desire then you can feel the release that comes from that, you can feel a sense of lasting peace and tranquility that follows. The more we unwind ourselves to our attachments and desires the more happiness that comes about. When we start to follow the eight-fold-path and try and change our thoughts, actions, speech, views, intentions, and daily work into virtuous endeavors then we start to experience more happiness. Buddhism analyzes life and looks at what actions cause suffering and which ones lead to happiness non-virtuous action causes unhappiness and virtuous action causes happiness its that simple.
The reason analyzing the impermanence of all things is important is it allows us to stop chasing our desire for impermanent things and it allows us to not be attach to fleeting forms because they are all passing away. We already analyzed why to follow the 8-fold-path because it leads to virtuous action which leads to happiness.
I could go into emptiness, meditation, karma and rebirth but this is already fairly long id like to hear peoples arguments against these truths, responses, or questions. Thank you for reading.
