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Brand New Phen? - 2,5 Dimethoxy 3,4 MDMA

One of the main reasons that I'm skeptical is obvious: the only way one is going to get a true MDMA trip is from MDMA. You may experience some elements of said "trip" but it won't be MDMA. It is just like saying 2C-I substitutes for mescaline. Or that LSA substitutes for LSD. It doesn't work that way. You may come close but will never truly recreate that experience.

Furthermore, the serotonin depletion from an experience like that would be marked, not to mention the strain that would be put on the mind and body. The toxicity would definitely be a serious complication to worry about, given the nature of MDMA's "high".
 
I agree that this will not substitute for MDMA.
However, if all you could use was mescaline since there was no alternative.
Suppose I showed up 'out the blue' with a small amount of 2c-b.
I think that would impress you if all you had was mescaline.
 
Yes. But with the general availability of MDMA (hell, I can even find it in Colorado, without really "looking" for it and we're considered dry on anything but MDA and dolphin-eque pills), I fail to see why one would want to experiment with something said to be similar to, or mimic, some or all of MDMA.

Think about it - remember PMA and 4-MTA?
 
True as it may be MTA & PMA can never replace the real thing. However, both compounds are unique in their own right. We must acknowledge and respect this fact. You would have grounds to argue if you thought that the proposed target molecule was likely to be inactive or somehow inferior to the parent structure. That was the grounds that Toluene used to sytematically knock Bishop's theoretical proposal.
 
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I'm more talking for the side of harm reduction.

Someone just cooking something up and feeding it to others isn't exactly smart, let alone safe. Active or not, a chemical that modified would definitely have consequences.

I changed my stance on it. I could give two shits about it being active or not, I just hope the hype doesn't cause stupidity, which this board seems to attract lately.
 
I haven't abandoned the whole deal here - it's just on hold tentatively for a few reasons; one them being that I didn't want to be one of the very first to try the thing. I tend to trust the chemist, but even if everything went 100% perfectly the lack of research or data on the substance obviously gives it a very high risk factor. It seems like this stuff is currently on the fringe of the fringe of the RC world.

In any case, I have no doubt whatsoever as to the actually of buddy's claim as a few other mutual friends have since tried it, and with their somewhat limited descriptive powers have confirmed that it's definately psychoactive and psychedelic.

I still intend to make a post on here the moment I do try it. But I have a lot on my plate currently in terms of scholastic obligations, an impending move and work related crap... my intent was to hold off on tripping until closer to end of term, and then let go for a week or two. Cause there's a few new or relatively new substances(to me) on the plate including foxy methoxy, 5-Me0-AMT, DOB, and 2C-T-2. All of which I've been meaning to explore over the past little while.

Also to reitterate from an earlier post, I'm still not clear as whether or not this substance is DMMDMA or DMMDA. The former would be cooler in terms of its novelty.

Apparently, both have been explored to some very obscure extent... but I haven't been able to find any super-credible info on DMMDMA.

In any case, the possibility of its inactivity is a non-issue. Buddy who I spoke to about it said it was "like acid", but he also said the same thing about "2C-I'... which, while both are psychedelic, do definately have distinct characteristics.
Likewise, in Pikhal 120mg (i believe that was the dosage) orally of DMMDA was described as having effects similar to 75ug of LSD. In what capacities, and to what extend - I hope to find out soon. I intend to explore the stuff when I get a chance and when I feel relatively secure about any acute toxicity. You gotta also keep in mind that like anyone, there's a bunch of other shit going on in my life... and a certain combination of factors have to be in the right allignment for one to be in a position to book off a few days and go off on a trip with a highly unfamiliar substance, or even just an acid trip for that matter.
 
Also, while the risk of the discovery of another PMA-like MDMA substitute leading to all sorts of bad shit in terms of the trafficking and marketing of something that may be potentially devastating or at least quite dangerous to one's health is a definite factor... I don't think that potential risk should dissaude scientific exploration in these fields... this kind of exploration has all sorts of value beyond considerations of worth beyond the realm of recreational use. After all for example, L-dopa is just chemically distinct from MDA by just the single carbon of the bridge and a CH3 substituted for a COOH on the alpha position. Point is, the exploration of these substances and their relation to our neurochemistry can potentially bring about great benefits...

Also, I'd imagine most people doing this kind of innovative chemistry are not exactly going to be marketing the shit at raves. I'd also imagine most black market chemistry operations pumping out product for illicit commercial sale aren't really going to be terribly preoccupied with exploration and creativity with highly obscure and largely unkown substances.
 
the latest round of off topic chatter has been removed from this thread - atlas
 
Tell your friend to post his synthesis and questions on Ask Shulgin, I bet you'd get a good response.
 
who mE? said:
The discussion of DMMDA is on the OTHER site we cannot link to, the one which kinda rhymes with "The Wives", which is predominantly Yellow.

Do a search of their chemistry, novel, and methods forums for DMMDA (especially threads by Antibody and Antibody2).
Click to expand...

I've scoured and searched extensively through both the sites we cannot link to, and just for the record there is no mention of 2,5-DM,3,4-MDMA or DMMDMA. There is some discussion and commentary on DMMDA, DMMDA-2 and DMMDMA-2, but not on DMMDMA. I have yet to find any detailed discussion on DMMDMA anywhere save for Shulgin's very brief allusion to its potential activity in Pikhail.

Also, I'm toled the synthesis didn't start from apiole. I'm still not clear as to what synthesis route they took, but this is something I will attempt to clear up around about when I get a trip report of the stuff on here..
 
Bishop said:
I have yet to find any detailed discussion on DMMDMA anywhere save for Shulgin's very brief allusion to its potential activity in Pikhail.
Click to expand...

It's DMMDA, not DMMDMA.
 
Blowmonkey said:
It's DMMDA, not DMMDMA.
Click to expand...

For the last time.... no it's not!
The compound being discussed here is DMMDMA
2,5-dimethoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methyl, alpha-methyl-phenethylamine.

Or if you prefer: methamphetamine with a methylenedioxy bridge on the 3,4 position, and methoxy arms on the 2 and 5 positions. The amine is most definately methylated... not DMMDA (which is included in Pikhal) but DMMDMA, to which he only alludes... and for which there is virtually no scientific data that I have been able to find... hence the Thread name "Brand New Phen".... and hence the repeat distinction that the compound I am making reference to includes a methylated amine.

Also, to reitterate again... DMMDMA is distinct from DMMDMA-2 (for which there is some, albeit very little data) in that DMMDA-2 has the methylene dioxy bridge on the 4,5 positions and the dimethoxy's on the 2 & 3. consecutively as opposed to on either side of the bridge.

Here we go:

DMMDA:
pihkal58.gif


DMMDMA-2:
pihkal59.gif
 
Direct quote from pikhal where the allusion is made to the posibility of activity of 25,DM-34,MDMA:

Extension from pikhal entry on DMMDA:

"Several people have asked me what I thought about the potential activity of a compound with a methyl group added to DMMDA. One of these possibilities would be the N-methylated derivative, 2,5-dimethoxy-N-methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine, or METHYL-DMMDA (or DMMDMA for the dimethoxy-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine nomenclature). It is a MDMA analogue, and is described in the recipe for METHYL-MMDA-2."


From commentary in Pikhal entry on METHYL-MMDA-2:
"DMMDMA has not yet been launched into an evaluation program, and I wouldn't be surprised if the needed dosage might be up there somewhere over 100 milligrams. I feel quite sure that the answers may be known in the near future. There is a surprisingly large number of inconspicuous chemical explorers out there all over the world, doing their synthetic thing in their private laboratories. They are truly the astronauts of inner space.
"

"
 
Bishop said:
For the last time.... no it's not!
Click to expand...
who_mE? was talking about DMMDA, you replied with; "I haven't found any discussion on DMMDMA"..
Originally posted by who mE?
Do a search of their chemistry, novel, and methods forums for DMMDA
 
Fair enough, but I started this thread in regards to a compound I have come into contact with - that compound is DMMDMA, and it is the subject of all this speculation.

I believe who_mE? was suggesting the unlinkables had info on DMMDMA as well as as DMMDA and DMMDMA-2. There's no contest being put up regarding the existence of their data on the second two...

also for the purpose of clarification.. this is the molecule I'm refering to:
dmmdma.gif
 
But bishop, you were supposed to test it. What happened? Still waiting?? Were all still anxious for a trip report!
 
No I dont think anyone really cares about it in all honesty. The only reason there is a stigma attached to this thread is because some guy is reported to have actually invented a new compound. That deserves credit but in this particular case I think it is a downgraded version of the parent compound thereby rendering it less desirable. The synthesis for it cant be easy either, is it really worthwhile or merely a time waster?
 
Well, it really doesnt matter cause he said his buddy makes it, and well, when its as easily accessible as that, whats the harm in experimenting responsibly?
 
One can not experiment responsibly with a compound that is a complete unknown. This has been proven time and time again. Unless they are starting at extremely low doses (500 micrograms or less) and moving up in increments of micrograms, it can't be considered responsible. Furthermore, who's to say the end product is "pure"?
 
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