Bluelighters what are your religious beliefs (or disbeliefs)

[Ninae]

^What makes you think I'm taking it too seriously? None of your post has any bearing on your first sentence.

I meant you're taking this life too seriously, blaming God for your misfortunes, etc. When it's just you, playing with yourself, playing hide and seek with yourself, being a sovereign being. You can ask God for approval and advice before you go down to a life on earth, but you don't always heed it, and have the freedom to do what you want.

We tend to take more upon ourselves than we can manage when we come to this world to get as much out of the experience as possible. While we're here we just want an easy life. But we don't value that so much when we get back to the higher planes and can have an idyllic life for as long as we want anyway.

 

[murphythecat]

While we're here we just want an easy life. But we don't value that so much when we get back to the higher planes and can have an idyllic life for as long as we want anyway.

but, why did you chose to come in this very life? why not stay in this idyllic life?

 

[Ninae]

but, why did you chose to come in this very life? why not stay in this idyllic life?

Monotomy. Slow development. Lack of service.

You can get tired of paradise, too, if there's nothing else for all eternity. And, in truth, those in paradise now envy us.

The way I undersand it, you come to expand yourself and God by extention. That is how God grows which benefits us all. A mutual form of service.

 

[murphythecat]

Monotomy. Slow development. Lack of service.

You can get tired of paradise, too, if there's nothing else for all eternity. And, in truth, those in paradise now envy us.

The way I undersand it, you come to expand yourself and God by extention. That is how God grows which benefits us all. A mutual form of service.

so god grows and people in paradise envy us. you sure they 're in paradise?

 

[Ninae]

No. Imagine having an eternity in paradise ahead of you. Maybe you would like to try something different. Especially if there are great gains from it. I realise this can be hard to imagine when you're in this world longing for paradise. But what if you had been in paradise for a million years? Maybe this life is a chance to experience something different.

 

[murphythecat]

No. Imagine having an eternity in paradise ahead of you. Maybe you would like to try something different. Especially if there are great gains from it. I realise this can be hard to imagine when you're in this world longing for paradise. But what if you had been in paradise for a million years? Maybe this life is a chance to experience something different.

one question: what is you? can you define it? can you point to me what makes you, you?
The more I practice, the more I realize that the me is not me, its a process, that can be changed so much that the view of self is simply created, nothing real about the self.
therefore, the self in paradise makes no sense. it wont be YOU, ninae, that will experience paradise. (if theres anything like it).

 

[Ninae]

Hahah. Up on the higher levels we're laughing at the kind of posts we're making here. Not to mention any animosity there can be between us. It's a lot like children playing a theatre play. Only we're not aware of that when we're playing.

 

[Erikmen]

Free will is as crazy a concept as those found in mainstream religions, IMO.

In regards to free will, I believe it's a confusing concept. I think most of us think imo have this power of choosing but a lot of actions we take is based on instinct, example etc, not really by choice.

 

[murphythecat]

In regards to free will, I believe it's a confusing concept. I think most of us think imo have this power of choosing but a lot of actions we take is based on instinct, example etc, not really by choice.

yeah, but still, free will in our society is actually a fact. we have free will. are we free? not at all, but we are the one not allowing ourselves to be free and want everything this society have to offer.

 

[swilow]

I meant you're taking this life too seriously, blaming God for your misfortunes, etc. When it's just you, playing with yourself, playing hide and seek with yourself, being a sovereign being. You can ask God for approval and advice before you go down to a life on earth, but you don't always heed it, and have the freedom to do what you want.

I'm not sure why you think I take life too seriously. I guess that I try to respond with logic and thought to your statements. I'm unsure how else to approach what you write. Its either I dismiss them entirely, or try and find something to discuss in them. I would rather dismiss them to be honest because discussing them is difficult and draining, but you seem to want to and so I try and be courteous.

But, anyway, I don't blame god for anything, anymore then I blame Santa Claus. I don't believe in your style of god, which I've said time and time again. Any statement you make to me about god needs that fact mentioned. The god I disbelieve is the judeo-christian god, the Abrahamic tyrant, the pretend cosmic friend. The personal god who cares about our lives. I don't see any demonstration of the standard facts of the Abrahamic god. Perhaps it is dead? Or not, it makes no difference to the impact it has on this world- that I can see.

Hahah. Up on the higher levels we're laughing at the kind of posts we're making here. Not to mention any animosity there can be between us. It's a lot like children playing a theatre play. Only we're not aware of that when we're playing.

Again, your statement might be true. They might be laughing at us. I'm not sure how you can know this, but whatevs. Lets pretend you are right. Would it be fair to laugh back at them? Aren't they meant to be powerful, supernatural entities? For all their power, they cannot even convince the majority of us that they exist. There is something amusing in this insistence on supernatural power when they seem incapable of doing anything of note here on earth. They are as amusing as the pre-literate child who claims to be able to read and spends some time pretending to do so.

My point is that all these gods and deities seem so powerless. They have no prescence on earth that can be detected by non-believers. Makes me think they are irrelevant- or absent. It makes no difference which though; the end result is the same.

***​

Hmm. I see why you think I take "life" too seriously. I respond to your fantasies and actually try to discuss them with you, as do many here in decreasing numbers, but you refuse to engage in that sense. You want to just tell us all stuff in your life, you don't want to know what we think, so any response to you is unwelcome and you clearly demonstrate that.

 

[Erikmen]

I admire the way you discuss things. You don't play the annoying superior role, although you are indeed among the the ones with most common sense and maturity.
Your patience and perseverance is amazing, and you point out clever thoughts in a polite manner and not at all arrogant. I dislike arrogant people and inflexibly minds. At the end it just makes me rude.
I tried to follow the poster you refer but it drained my energy and I stopped discussing. There's simply no point. It's like having a discussion with a child.

 

[JackiePeyton]

Boy Erik that is very complementary

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hey Willow, log in here infrequently so sorry to leave your question hanging. By "Agnostic is a religion too" I mean religion is a belief-structure we hold; it's a template of sorts so we can categorize and direct our experiences with some interpretation. If you saw a being of light appear before you one day, your religion would direct your perception of the event. So religion becomes a filter through which we experience reality. Muslims rarely see Buddha figures in their experience but they do have transcendent experiences. So there we have it, my definition of religion: an interpretation of an experience we all are having. Obviously a matter of semantics. If you look at the common theme in religions, seems to me it fits. Not that everyone will or should agree. Cheers Willow, enjoyed the question and enjoying the answers.

 

[turkalurk]

yeah, but still, free will in our society is actually a fact. we have free will. are we free? not at all, but we are the one not allowing ourselves to be free and want everything this society have to offer.

You are about the least buddhist buddhist I have ever met. How do you have free will without a self? Again, what is your take on dependent origination?

 

[turkalurk]

I admire the way you discuss things. You don't play the annoying superior role, although you are indeed among the the ones with most common sense and maturity.
Your patience and perseverance is amazing, and you point out clever thoughts in a polite manner and not at all arrogant. I dislike arrogant people and inflexibly minds. At the end it just makes me rude.
I tried to follow the poster you refer but it drained my energy and I stopped discussing. There's simply no point. It's like having a discussion with a child.

get a room you two! Ha, or a deserted island!

 

[murphythecat]

You are about the least buddhist buddhist I have ever met. How do you have free will without a self? Again, what is your take on dependent origination?

your question is vague about the self and free will.

theres two level. relative and absolute. in relative reality, yes theres a body that you take care of and that you consider yours.
on the absolute level, theres just a body. the self is not real, its simply a idea, a thought.


dependant origination is well described. why would you want my take on it?

 

[turkalurk]

Because there is no free will in buddhism. there is only action free of ego. the will is just another thing that arises from preexisting conditions, and that is DEPENDENT upon these conditions. if something is dependent, then it is not "free."

 

[murphythecat]

indeed, if something is dependant, its not free. but its a bit weird to say it like that because in this present moment, I have a lot of different choice I can make for my immediate future. I'm free to decide if I will meditate or think all day long, or hate or love, or whatever. I am free to react in a situation with love or hate.
therefore, its false to say such a broad generalisation as: there is no free will in buddhism. its a bit misleading but I understand what you mean and I agree for the most part.

the whole point of the practice is to stop being dependant upon outer condition. only then will we be free.

as long as we are not enlightened, we are not entirely free. thats why nibbana is also called liberation

but it wouldnt be fair to say that we are not free in life. of course, our reality is conditioned, but within the conditions of our existence, our reactions are our responsibility and we have many different way to react: some creates suffering in us and other while other actions create good and beneficial result. we are free to decide whether to act badly or wholesomely.

Because there is no free will in buddhism. there is only action free of ego. the will is just another thing that arises from preexisting conditions, and that is DEPENDENT upon these conditions. if something is dependent, then it is not "free."

 

[turkalurk]

indeed, if something is dependant, its not free. but its a bit weird to say it like that because in this present moment, I have a lot of different choice I can make for my immediate future. I'm free to decide if I will meditate or think all day long, or hate or love, or whatever. I am free to react in a situation with love or hate.
therefore, its false to say such a broad generalisation as: there is no free will in buddhism. its a bit misleading but I understand what you mean and I agree for the most part.

the whole point of the practice is to stop being dependant upon outer condition. only then will we be free.

as long as we are not enlightened, we are not entirely free. thats why nibbana is also called liberation

but it wouldnt be fair to say that we are not free in life. of course, our reality is conditioned, but within the conditions of our existence, our reactions are our responsibility and we have many different way to react: some creates suffering in us and other while other actions create good and beneficial result. we are free to decide whether to act badly or wholesomely.

You are confusing free action with free will. You have freedom to make choices and act upon them, but your will is dependent upon the world that made you into the human being that you are.

 

[murphythecat]

to be honest, I think everyone knows that.
still, you have free will within the restraints of your living conditions.

You are confusing free action with free will. You have freedom to make choices and act upon them, but your will is dependent upon the world that made you into the human being that you are.