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Bupe Best Way to Use Suboxone/Subutex to Detox

Just try to make yourself as comfortable as possible without being a total pussy about it

Can actually picture Keith Richards telling someone that
 
I have been a heavy opiate user for years now: started when I was younger with Vicodin, moved up to Oxys & Roxys, the 30 mg blues, and averaged about 10 a day (300 mgs). This was my life for a couple years. I was a functioning addict until I wasn't and my world came crashing down, quickly and dramatically. Ended up in rehab about 7 months ago, after quitting blues cold turkey. Well, my opiate addicted, 300 mgs a day body said hell no and fraught back with the most intense and traditionally horrible withdrawal symptoms: I felt like my body had been hit by multiple busses, I could not stop throwing up, shaking, sweating, going to the bathroom and experienced the worst restless leg syndrome. Needless to say, those around me watching this checked me into a detox center, where I went on a 4 day suboxone detox. It was amazing. Detox wasn't, but suboxone is like a miracle drug for people going through opiate WD. To make a long story short, here I am 7 months later in the throws of heroin addiction. I started using heroin about 6 months ago, snorting turned into shooting, shooting up randomly became shooting up regularly and regularly soon became a strict schedule of shooting up heroin and cocaine every morning before work, every afternoon after work, and every evening before bed. Everyday. Like clockwork. I have to end this cycle. I feel like I have lost control of my life. If I don't do my shot at the time my body is used to doing it, I will start to get dope sick, and I know first hand the hell that really is, so I use to feel normal. So I wanna quit, can't quit because I'm so physically addicted, but need to stop or I know I'll loose everything, again. So I have three, 8 mg suboxone strips. The last time I did dope was at 6pm yesterday evening. I woke up this morning & left to go to work at 8:30 and took half of the sub (4 mgs) then. I have 4 mgs left from that strip, and 2 other 8 mg strips. Anyone have any advice on how to best taper off? Any advice for me in general, been through what I'm going through? Anything helps right now as I'm fighting this battle alone, none of my friends and family know I'm using again, and not only using, but shooting up speedballs 2-3 times a day. Thanks y'all -- xx
 
tarpits said:
I understand this thread might not be the best place to ask this question. But I also don't want to revive old threads. In any case I went and did a stupid thing...I was on subutex for about 3 years and a couple of weeks ago I got my hands on a bunch of pills so I just decided to go thru those...took about two weeks. Once I was done I waited about 18 hours since my last dose and took 8mg of subutex. Went into precipitated withdrawal.

Now if I had the time to rough it out I would...but I don't. In my ultimate wisdom I went and picked up a bill's worth of tar. Smoked that shit up and I feel like nothing happened. Sitting here sweating now about 2hr after my last "dose" of tar. My question is, should I take a small bit of sub? It's been about 36 hrs since I took the 8mg. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. I have some serious life shit to take care of tomorrow and I cannot walk around looking like I do. Literally everyone I know will be aware of what's going on.
Click to expand...
It was my understanding that with subutex you didn't risk PW because of the lack of naxalone (spelling error) in subutex. I thought suboxone had the blocking agent and subutex didn't. Anyways i just want to say that I've done a sub fast taper plenty of times and most of the detox centers around here use subs also over a 4/5 day period. I usually wait minimum 24 hours before dosing with sub. I'll start with 2mg and have taken up to 16mg that 1st day but I usually cut that in half every day til I'm down to 2mg. I'll hold that for 2/3 days and jump right off. Its not too comfortable but compared to cold turkey it's a cake walk. This dosage has greatly helped with the worst of wd's coming off a multi year 2.5/3g a day IV habit with some benzos too. I dont want to give the impression it's easy cause it ain't just thst it's doable. Best of luck all
 
Papers myself from 40 milligrams of vicodin and four hours - 2 milligrams of a sub used a paper calendar tapered all the way down to an eighth of the two using around four days of a 50% decrease each day or sorry each time. With a beta blocker from my doctor two weeks vacay off Job. He also gave me some ativan and I had some herb. Got myself methionine, glutamine and tyrosine amino acids from GNC. A multivitamin and had some herb. Calendar took 14 days and I was uncomfortable with a couple of restless night prolly about 10 days that was everything I did completely plugged eat well and stretch a lot and do stuff to get my mind off of it helped it immensely. Hope this helps.
 
This is my first post on BL, but I have been using these forums my entire using period. I have been using opiates heavily for about 8 to 9 years and have gotten clean multiple times by me using the just enough method, and in my younger days I went to the sub clinic.... And let me tell you longer tapers are worse because you will just be addicted to subs. Everybody's body is different but the bioavailability of bupe is so high you need very little to not get sick imho. With that being said I have read and I will try to find the link that states precipitated withdraw only happens when the sub ceiling is hit which I believe 12-16 mg, I will look for the link. It also depends on ROA. I have taken subs before fentanyl, opana, roxys, etc, and after, both subutex and suboxone, and never in my 8 years had precipitated withdraw. And I have numerous friends who feel the same way, I will look for the link. Remember though everyone's body is different, but I have literally taken 8 mgs of suboxone and then sucked down 6.7 mgs of fent and even got high with no withdraw. Everyone's body is different though, I will try to find that link about the ceiling being needed to reach for precip w/d.
 
drwhooo said:
I can detox from h with as little as a half of an 8/2 sub. It's awesome in the effect that I get such little wd's that the entire detox period is painless for the most part....

The scary part is I know I can do this, which makes allowing myself to break the 2-3 day opiate rule almost not even listen to that rule.
Click to expand...

Ditto -_- I feel your pain bro lol.
Luckily I haven't been doing it too long and it's probably best for me to stop once and for all now before it's too late. I know people who's lives have been gutted by opiates and if I don't stop I'll eventually be one of them too.. I hopefully start my last and final suboxone taper next week. Wish me luck :S

Like the OP said it doesn't make the withdrawl painless... But definitely much less painful, much more bearable & drawn out.

My taper(s) which I have tried twice before with success (success being minimalizing withdrawl during detox...Not staying away/off the drug forever even though that's the goal. Clearly not doing that successfully lol if I'm here saying I'm doing another taper.) include ...
Note: Bear in mind if you have a bigger source of Suboxone you could use higher dosages and have the taper last longer but no longer than a couple weeks so one doesn't get addicted to the sub. I just chose to keep the dose low as 2mg holds me and I find a lower dose just aids the withdrawl process rather than also prolonging it which I feel I am with larger doses. 4mg takes away almost all wd for me during the worst of it.

That's why in my taper I'll try and take 4mg if I have enough subs on the first day to stabilize myself then drop from there the following days to 0mg over the course of a week. I have a moderate opiate tolerance (a dose I take would kill some people though I guess), my docs are Morphine and Hydromorphone but have only been dependent for almost 6months now...
So perhaps people with a longer habit may need more but even then start out low and take more only if you need too. Wait a couple of hours till you take more as I find suboxone take a while to fully kick in sometimes.

But anyways yeah, here is my taper below. The taper which I've used only twice now but successfully. Each time was followed by a week (second time tapering with sub) to 18 days (first time tapering with sub) sobriety before relapsing. So I guess also know it's probably a good idea to plan out not just the sub taper but how you will be successful in remaining abstinent from your opiate of choice...

Kk here it is. My typical suboxone taper...
First day - 4mg (2mg will do if you don't have enough and I have used 2mg on the first day.)
Second Day - 2mg, Third Day - 2mg, Fourth Day - 1mg, Fifth Day - 1mg, Sixth Day - 0.5mg, Seventh Day - 0.5mg... & if one feels necessary 0.25mg for the following 2 days after the seventh day.
 
Opiophile443 said:
This is my first post on BL, but I have been using these forums my entire using period. I have been using opiates heavily for about 8 to 9 years and have gotten clean multiple times by me using the just enough method, and in my younger days I went to the sub clinic.... And let me tell you longer tapers are worse because you will just be addicted to subs. Everybody's body is different but the bioavailability of bupe is so high you need very little to not get sick imho. With that being said I have read and I will try to find the link that states precipitated withdraw only happens when the sub ceiling is hit which I believe 12-16 mg, I will look for the link. It also depends on ROA. I have taken subs before fentanyl, opana, roxys, etc, and after, both subutex and suboxone, and never in my 8 years had precipitated withdraw. And I have numerous friends who feel the same way, I will look for the link. Remember though everyone's body is different, but I have literally taken 8 mgs of suboxone and then sucked down 6.7 mgs of fent and even got high with no withdraw. Everyone's body is different though, I will try to find that link about the ceiling being needed to reach for precip w/d.
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Precip withdrawals are usually felt when one takes Suboxone too soon AFTER an opiate. Not when one takes an opiate too soon after a Suboxone.
 
Okay so this is my first post on BL but I have been reading posts for awhile now.

So my girlfriend and I have been using for a little under a year now with some clean time in between so I would probably say using consistently for about 6-7 months. My dose usually was somewhere between 30-60mg a day for most of the time frame but recently I have upped the dose to 90-120mg a day. My girlfriend was taking less than me so I would say she is probably around 30-45 mg a day. Oxycodone is our DOC. On Tuesday I will be getting 2 8mg suboxone strips.

My plan is to use the single dose method. Since our dose isn't too high and the length isn't either I figured that we would wait 36 hours from our last dose and then I would take 4mg and I would give her 2mg. I would do this CT but we both have to work and can't take time off during this time of the year.

My question is do you think that this will be enough? I've been reading and I figured that if that isn't enough to make it through without feeling bad WD's then we would take a lower dose when we start going into WD's again (maybe 2mg for me and 1mg for my GF? maybe lower??)

I would just like some feedback as well as maybe some other remedies or medicines that would also work with the subs. We do have access to xanaflex (tizanidine), trazodone, and a small amount of xanax. We are both active to I was also planning to go on short jogs/walks each evening when we return from work and eating a low sugar diet during the detox time along with tons of liquids (water, gatoraide, tea).

Any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TY
 
Withdrawl is withdrawl is withdrawl. Your line of thinking stumps me. In all fairness why don't you each get a strip and work with it. You can Google cows for withdrawl sx. Both your habits are not too big so I don't think it's gonna be too bad but then again you never know. I would start low on sub and stretch it out, you know how to half the strip, half the half etc,??? You can always take more, etc, good luck.
 
bonomoopiojo55 said:
Withdrawl is withdrawl is withdrawl. Your line of thinking stumps me. In all fairness why don't you each get a strip and work with it. You can Google cows for withdrawl sx. Both your habits are not too big so I don't think it's gonna be too bad but then again you never know. I would start low on sub and stretch it out, you know how to half the strip, half the half etc,??? You can always take more, etc, good luck.
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Thanks for the response. How does my line of thinking stump you? I'm not trying to be rude or anything but I was just coming here for some advice. I'm going to cut the strips as soon as I get them. Maybe start out with 2mg and then start her out with 1mg. Don't get me wrong if we get to the 36 hour mark and we're doing okay and feel like we can make it through work then by all means we'll avoid the subs but I was just looking to get some insight and information. Anyway, thank you for the response and I appreciate your feedback.
 
It just sounded funny,like because you take a little more oxy, you may need a little more sub, that's all. Hopefully you will both be ok, it doesn't sound like it will be too bad, what you may want to think about though, is paws, and later what to do when cravings hit, just food for thought, good luck to ya both.
 
This stuff does work but its basically like using mercury or something that would harm you over the long term. You wouldnt want to use it for TOO long. I do this kind of crap every other month. The first day of not having your "usual" will suck some but trust me, it's better than being CT. About the only thing that from my experience I can attest to is, I feel "cold" but not really, a little sleepier than usual. Appetite, social, and enjoyment activities are 60-70%. That is, I CAN do them, but it usually takes me a full day to get used to it. I always prepare for days like this too by letting people close to me know I may seem a little "janky" so dont get mad. By now all my friends ( im a guy ) tell me "yeah he's probably not gonna be himself its that time of the month" :p But in reality its not as bad as it seems. People that are gonna do this kind of life need to at least be responsible with it. i know using the word "responsible" when dealing with this kind of stuff seems like an oxymoron, but trust me, millions of others are like this too. Hell look at Prince recently. Was all that talent he showed us for years, talent...or was it "boosted". We may never know. The point is, theres no reason to ruin your life because you like something, if you have these. I know a few people that are hardcore and do more crap and when they tried one of these they got INSTANT WD. Im talkin code brown of death! Lastly, dont be fooled by the power of subs. They might SEEM like they aint doin shiet at first and you might feel you need to take another dose but DO NOT DO IT or you will feel the wrath of the brown tornado!
 
The 4mg everyday for four days is currently what im trying. I call my program the "Fantastic Four". And yes, because im weird like that and I care about people and have been in "the game" myself I decided to test it personally. Here are my results, keep in mind im not active, eat a moderately good diet and the only exercise I get is walking my dogs every day. Also keep in mind that I used supplements to help. Lastly and in my experience and opinion, the bigger ( fatter ) you are, the longer it takes. Im 6'3" and 260 lbs. My poison : 1-2 80mg ox a day & 2 to 3 30mg rox a day.

1. Day 1 : 4mg of suboxone, 1 niacin, 1 potassium, 1 b12 ( sublingual ), 12mg of immodium ad in the caplets ( the small ones ) : Felt weak like I was tired and sometimes got a short chill, but that was it. Took OTC sleep aid and sleep was ok. Woke up every 4 hours, but slept 10 total. When I woke up prematurely I took more OTC sleep aid ( careful with this. )

2. Day 2 : 4mg again as well as everything listed in 1. Chills were less and fatigue was nominal. Felt O K enough to deal, but something in my head was "sometime is off". Slept 6 hours before waking up and went back to sleep for 4 more.

3. Day 3 : Same formula again. Any chills lasted less than 5 minutes and happened about 4 to 5 times throughout the day.Slept 8 hours finally. Got up but went back to sleep just cause I wanted to burn more crap off. Slept 4 more hours. Sleep is important when you can get it because your body tries to heal itself faster than when you are awake imo. Was also able to shave my nasty neck beard off. Usually when im "goin through it" I dont like shaving, bathing every day or having anything touch me, especially water.

4. Day 4 : Repeated formula. No chills moderate fatigue. Able to do full daily chores. Went shopping. Played some online games. Countered fatigue with an NOS drink mixed with LOTS of gatorade. Took a nice long hot shower, felt amazing.

5. Day 5 : Thats today : Well im out of subs so Ill report back in the am hours. Its 6 am where I am now. I will be waking up with nothing so Im hoping I will be ok.

The goal is to get through the 72 hours of hell , but not stay on the subs and loperimide ( immodium ) too long so you dont get dependent on it as well.
 
TL;DR.

Say I am on 40mg methadone planning to come down to 30 soon. Say I would like to switch over to suboxone and detox relatively rapidly (like, before the end of the summer) - is this possible? I have heard that a fast sub detox can be relatively painless but never whether it could be done coming off something long acting like methadone.

Thanks.
 
One thing that upsets me is they shoulndt even OFFER suboxone in the stupid little sublingual strips. For one it has a stale orange flavored taste and two unless you take the entire thing which some people cant start off with, its a LOT easier to lose or fuck up the dose. Ive had them under my tongue and have them slide to the back of my bottom teeth before.
 
Im not only a CDAC and psychologist in training, but have had many bouts with suboxone withdrawl, and have been clean 5 years. My final bout with opiates was coming of suboxone for 2 years of 8mg. I did a rapid detox, 7 days from 8 to 4 to 2 to nothing. Three days, nothin. Fourth day, it starts. It was unbearable for two. Third the physical symptoms started dissapaiting, i was prescriped clonidine which helped IMMENSELY. No RSL or cold sweats. I excersised every day for two years on the subs. That couldve helped. The fourth day. Anxiety started. Living hell, felt bad in my skin but was not depressed thank god. I got my hands on xanax. If used safely it is a GODSEND. The xanax took away my anxiety, and i used adderall for depression. I worked out every day. I do not recommend this pill concotion for everyone, i have always been resistant to severe withdrawls. Body type metabolism ect. But these medications made the process ALMOST painless, and by day 7 or 8 i was feeling well. The anxiety continues, but DO NOT use xanax for more than a week due to dependency developing. Wish you all luck, and a happy recovery.
 
Functional said:
The 4mg everyday for four days is currently what im trying. I call my program the "Fantastic Four". And yes, because im weird like that and I care about people and have been in "the game" myself I decided to test it personally. Here are my results, keep in mind im not active, eat a moderately good diet and the only exercise I get is walking my dogs every day. Also keep in mind that I used supplements to help. Lastly and in my experience and opinion, the bigger ( fatter ) you are, the longer it takes. Im 6'3" and 260 lbs. My poison : 1-2 80mg ox a day & 2 to 3 30mg rox a day.

1. Day 1 : 4mg of suboxone, 1 niacin, 1 potassium, 1 b12 ( sublingual ), 12mg of immodium ad in the caplets ( the small ones ) : Felt weak like I was tired and sometimes got a short chill, but that was it. Took OTC sleep aid and sleep was ok. Woke up every 4 hours, but slept 10 total. When I woke up prematurely I took more OTC sleep aid ( careful with this. )

2. Day 2 : 4mg again as well as everything listed in 1. Chills were less and fatigue was nominal. Felt O K enough to deal, but something in my head was "sometime is off". Slept 6 hours before waking up and went back to sleep for 4 more.

3. Day 3 : Same formula again. Any chills lasted less than 5 minutes and happened about 4 to 5 times throughout the day.Slept 8 hours finally. Got up but went back to sleep just cause I wanted to burn more crap off. Slept 4 more hours. Sleep is important when you can get it because your body tries to heal itself faster than when you are awake imo. Was also able to shave my nasty neck beard off. Usually when im "goin through it" I dont like shaving, bathing every day or having anything touch me, especially water.

4. Day 4 : Repeated formula. No chills moderate fatigue. Able to do full daily chores. Went shopping. Played some online games. Countered fatigue with an NOS drink mixed with LOTS of gatorade. Took a nice long hot shower, felt amazing.

5. Day 5 : Thats today : Well im out of subs so Ill report back in the am hours. Its 6 am where I am now. I will be waking up with nothing so Im hoping I will be ok.

The goal is to get through the 72 hours of hell , but not stay on the subs and loperimide ( immodium ) too long so you dont get dependent on it as well.
Click to expand...

Forgot to report back oops:p My bad folks! Anyway! Success! After Day 5 I pretty much was chill and "toxed out" as I call it. Which is the point to where you can resist taking anything and / or not feel like total ass.

It's ANOTHER month and I put myself through hell for the good of humanity lol. Got on my vices and currently back off them but this time was a bonus. I was able to acquire 2 and a half suboxone strips. I gotta say, the world hates us but it's nice to have people in a similar stink actually give a fuck about you. However i thought I would try a different plan this time.

Id like to have this one added to the list if possible :

Fantastic Four ( lol ) method : The user started off with 4mg taken AS NEEDED ONLY. Do not stack, or mix with anything else ( except non narcotics ). This is to be taken at LEAST twice a day for 2 to four days or if you are Keith Richards take just enough to feel good without bein a pussy!

Had 8 mg this way yesterday, slept about 6 hours. Had very minor withdrawals. Very slight nose run that went away. 20 seconds of chills like 2 or 3 times. Totally manageable as opposed to having your body feel like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. Oh I would like to add, Im BIG on making the body's waste removal systems function. I like going to the bathroom , like on an almost fetish level sometimes to get rid of crap ( sometimes literally ) in my body so bowel function is important. I eat lots of fiber and take immodium ad small greenish pills. These have loperimide ( lope ) in them so it really helps.

Ive got one more pc of sub left and then im CT. Its not EXACTLY 4mg cause im having to share it with someone...yeah i know thats not smart, but like I said when its someone with a similar lifestyle like you, as long as they arent completely GONE I cant stand to watch someone suffer.Its about 2mg I think. They dont take / need nearly as much though. They tried to take 4mg once and they had fluids fly out of both ends. Wasnt pleasant.
 
Thanks for the informative post. I was looking for guidance on how to take the subtext I I have. I've been taking 60 to 70 milligrams of hydrocodone for about 10 months. I have a 6 of 8 milligrams and 6 2 milligrams . Doctor wanted me to take 8 milligrams twice a day for the first two days and to taper down from there for 8 days. From what I've been reading the large dosage of 8 milligrams twice a day for 2 days is too much for what I've been taking. I was considering trying to method of taking as little as possible to not feel sick and to taper down from that quickly. Or I was considering your 8 milligram large dosage at first method but I also have to be careful because I have been taking clonazepam for a long time and can't cold turkey that and don't want to risk any help breathing problems from taking the benzos and that large of a dose of subtext. Let me know what you think thank you.
 
^16mg is way way way too much for you, 1 mg should be enough
Hydrocodone is around 0.15-0.59 times as potent as morphine while buprenorphine is like 30-40 times as potent
So let's take 0.5 as potency -> 70mg hydro = around 35 mg of morphine is around 1mg of bupe.
 
Thanks for your reply. I took one milligram of buprenorphine first day and it actually got me somewhat High. Second day I took only about .75 milligram. And yesterday I only took about .3 milligram in two divided doses one being a teeny piece last night at 7 p.m. . I also take benzodiazepines and have cut down the use of those in half but still that have found that I have respiratory distress when taken to buprenorphine and want to know if after only taking these three small doses if I can go back to temporarily taking the Norco without experiencing buprenorphine withdrawal. I never took a large enough dose of Norco to experience any respiratory distress with the clonazepam that I take. Usually about two to two-and-a-half milligrams a day. The buprenorphine also seem to just make me not feel good at all past few days. I don't know if it's a reaction to the buprenorphine but according to what you said it the dose I'm taking should alleviate withdrawals. But it has created all the problems that I want off of it for now. I have read that you usually have to take a larger dose of your prior opioid if you take it close to your last buprenorphine dose as it stays in your system a long time. I don't want to do that either and risk taking too much. I just wanted to take 10 or 20 milligrams. So I can feel ok and not have breathing problems
 
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