Best sleep combo?

[alyssa114]

Backstory - I’ve been a chronic insomniac for most of my adult life (difficulty falling asleep mostly, but sometimes wake up and can’t get back to sleep). Back in the early 2000s, they put me on Zolpidem (when it was pretty new and prescribed VERY readily) and that started my love of being lulled into sleep with meds.

Since.then I’ve been on all sorts of things over the years, such as Benzos (tempazepam, diazepam, clonazepam), zopiclone, doxylamine succinate and more recently (after sleep studies and with benzos much harder to obtain) gabapentin. With the difficulties in getting sleep meds prescribed, I starting vaping indica flower about 5 years ago. I discovered that the combo of weed + a low dose of a benzo, I’d drift off easily, but also enjoyed watching TV etc baked before falling asleep. I also found that if I didn’t combine weed with anything, it was nowhere near as pleasant, a bit more “buzzy” and that I sometimes get nasty intrusive thoughts. Codeine at a low dose seems to combine nicely with bud & makes the high more pleasant….but of course, Australian authorities f*cked us over once OTC codeine was banned. I have at times resorted to getting it on black market, as Drs are reluctant to prescribe anything useful these days. *rolls eyes*

My question is, what other (easily obtainable) things can I combine with a nice strong indica that will knock me on my ass, but with a quiet mind? Combining gabapentin with weed no longer seems to work like it used to. I have heard that CBD can work, but I was concerned this would reduce the high? I still want to get lit, but in a more floaty, sleepy, pleasant way…not with my mind racing and thinking of horrible shit happening. I love that really heavy feeling where sleep comes oh so easily.

 

[Darksidesam]

The key to being able to use cannabis for sleep i find is to keep your tolerance low in the first place. If you are consuming it non stop it just doesnt have as strong as effect when nighttime arrives, however if you focus self control and allocate your use for a sole purpose of to sleep, then for me personally what works is only 2 doses a day: 1 dose late evening to play games and relax then another dose shortly (but not right before) bed, I nearly always feel very tired but somewhat recently (A few months back) i was using weed all day long wake n bake and it lost that effect completely.

This could be due to the fact that cannabis is supposed to make your melatonin levels soar after consumption, so if you use it in the evening only as i say and try to avoid lots of bright screens that tell the brain to not produce the sleep hormone, melatonin then it should help you sleep (the melatonin levels raise much higher typically around 1 hour after consumption and onwards apparently) and remember it is when Darkness hits your eyes that your The pineal gland says right its time to produce melatonin for sleep cycle.

Ive had success using a mixture of pure CBD strains (8-15% cbd as far as i know, <1%thc) and some gelato or stardawg these are hybrid strains definitely best to look for indica and i use that in a ratio of 1:1
When i was a lot younger i would abuse the hell out of THC but as I got older i just want it to help me to sleep at night and i occasionally will use for headaches or nausea thats bad. In Short if you want medicinal properties from the plant try to use it sparingly to keep your tolerance low so its most effective


I see you have a lot of experience with Benzos you also mention codeine which i do also find synergises well with cannabis (even at low doses, you dont need a lot it still changes the high) but its not good to take opiates or benzos regularly due to addiction and health issues from using them. You dont actually need a lot to sleep honestly if you overdo the weed and have any anxiety issues it can even keep you awake, cannabis is strange as a medicine it is very dose-dependant varying on the patient

 

[alyssa114]

The key to being able to use cannabis for sleep i find is to keep your tolerance low in the first place. If you are consuming it non stop it just doesnt have as strong as effect when nighttime arrives, however if you focus self control and allocate your use for a sole purpose of to sleep, then for me personally what works is only 2 doses a day: 1 dose late evening to play games and relax then another dose shortly (but not right before) bed, I nearly always feel very tired but somewhat recently (A few months back) i was using weed all day long wake n bake and it lost that effect completely.

This could be due to the fact that cannabis is supposed to make your melatonin levels soar after consumption, so if you use it in the evening only as i say and try to avoid lots of bright screens that tell the brain to not produce the sleep hormone, melatonin then it should help you sleep (the melatonin levels raise much higher typically around 1 hour after consumption and onwards apparently) and remember it is when Darkness hits your eyes that your The pineal gland says right its time to produce melatonin for sleep cycle.

Ive had success using a mixture of pure CBD strains (8-15% cbd as far as i know, <1%thc) and some gelato or stardawg these are hybrid strains definitely best to look for indica and i use that in a ratio of 1:1
When i was a lot younger i would abuse the hell out of THC but as I got older i just want it to help me to sleep at night and i occasionally will use for headaches or nausea thats bad. In Short if you want medicinal properties from the plant try to use it sparingly to keep your tolerance low so its most effective


I see you have a lot of experience with Benzos you also mention codeine which i do also find synergises well with cannabis (even at low doses, you dont need a lot it still changes the high) but its not good to take opiates or benzos regularly due to addiction and health issues from using them. You dont actually need a lot to sleep honestly if you overdo the weed and have any anxiety issues it can even keep you awake, cannabis is strange as a medicine it is very dose-dependant varying on the patient

I only use cannabis at night before bed. I need to work/study/look after kids during the day, which I do much better not being stoned I don’t drink alcohol anymore so I enjoy my nighttime weed and keep it strictly for that purpose (I have no stoner friends and being a mid 40s female in a “responsible” profession…in a country where weed is illegal, daytime use is very unlikely).

The benzos I had prescribed were either for sleep or restless legs syndrome. Even though I have used them for well over a decade, I have never got to a dose beyond 20mg of val or 1mg clonazepam. If I ever increase it, I run out as they are strict with script refill times. I end up having a break from benzos for a few months at a time - probably a good thing.

Because of my restleg legs syndrome/limb movement in sleep/plus insomnia, I have great difficulty in falling asleep without *something*. I used to go weeks without decent sleep prior to medication, it gets very dangerous driving etc when insomnia is that severe.

You are not wrong, it is a strange drug! Some nights, I get baked off such a small amount, other nights, can’t seem to get high at all - with the same weed?!

 

[Darksidesam]

Our sleeping disorder sounds very similar , 20mg diazepam is a fair dose by the way its not a low dose by any means (speaking from medical use point of view not recreational) I dont take any benzo now, the stopping and starting of Benzos could be one of your issues here though because you are not allowing your GABA system to calibrate itself (Similar thing happens with alcoholics, also GABA system )

It does sound like you are doing what you can already to be able to gain benefit from cannabis i highly recommend getting your hands on a CBD strain and try different ratios mixing it with your regular stuff : THC:CBD , 1:8 , 1:4, 1:2, 1:1 and so on.
I dont believe in those droppers or oils and definitely not isolate after trying CBD flower in conjunction with cannabis, i like to think im replicating an oldskool Moroccan hash (a lot of but not all hashes typically contained around 4-8% CBD)

Something i need to help me sleep is to implement like a routine or ritual into my sleep for example background noise fans white noise etc. Secondly try exploring different sleeping positions as certain ones worsen some symptoms and they can also set the ground for your mind and body that you are trying to achieve rest (pillow between the legs is the best) if i sleep on back for example 100% chance i wake up in 10 minutes gasping for air (thanks sleep apnea).
Firstly you need to address your RLS have you been tried on Baclofen? because i know when i have RLS i cannot sleep at all mine is only temporarily brought on at times i cant imagine what its like to have. Also make sure you are not deficient in any vitamins and minerals, also regulating the temperature of the room you are in is very important as is thickness of bed sheets/duvet.
You could also try to add more Tryptophan into your diet and research which exercises /activities are Serotonin boosting and avoid Dopamine Boosting ones (i think high dopamine dependence could increase RLS)


A question, on your worst days of sleep (mine are like those nights where i go to bed and i am awake literally until the sun rises hours and hours later... those suck), what is on your mind? are you worrying about stuff or is it simply that you cannot switch off?

*disclaimer im not a dr or any kind of medical expert just someone who has read up and studied certain things because of personal issues and purely out of interest

 

[alyssa114]

Our sleeping disorder sounds very similar , 20mg diazepam is a fair dose by the way its not a low dose by any means (speaking from medical use point of view not recreational) I dont take any benzo now, the stopping and starting of Benzos could be one of your issues here though because you are not allowing your GABA system to calibrate itself (Similar thing happens with alcoholics, also GABA system )

It does sound like you are doing what you can already to be able to gain benefit from cannabis i highly recommend getting your hands on a CBD strain and try different ratios mixing it with your regular stuff : THC:CBD , 1:8 , 1:4, 1:2, 1:1 and so on.
I dont believe in those droppers or oils and definitely not isolate after trying CBD flower in conjunction with cannabis, i like to think im replicating an oldskool Moroccan hash (a lot of but not all hashes typically contained around 4-8% CBD)

Something i need to help me sleep is to implement like a routine or ritual into my sleep for example background noise fans white noise etc. Secondly try exploring different sleeping positions as certain ones worsen some symptoms and they can also set the ground for your mind and body that you are trying to achieve rest (pillow between the legs is the best) if i sleep on back for example 100% chance i wake up in 10 minutes gasping for air (thanks sleep apnea).
Firstly you need to address your RLS have you been tried on Baclofen? because i know when i have RLS i cannot sleep at all mine is only temporarily brought on at times i cant imagine what its like to have. Also make sure you are not deficient in any vitamins and minerals, also regulating the temperature of the room you are in is very important as is thickness of bed sheets/duvet.
You could also try to add more Tryptophan into your diet and research which exercises /activities are Serotonin boosting and avoid Dopamine Boosting ones (i think high dopamine dependence could increase RLS)


A question, on your worst days of sleep (mine are like those nights where i go to bed and i am awake literally until the sun rises hours and hours later... those suck), what is on your mind? are you worrying about stuff or is it simply that you cannot switch off?

*disclaimer im not a dr or any kind of medical expert just someone who has read up and studied certain things because of personal issues and purely out of interest

I loved baclofen when I had it prescribed for back trouble. Sadly, it’s very difficult now to get prescribed here in Australia. Heck, nearly any useful drug is (getting high CBD weed is not so easy either, might be able to find some oil. Weed is illegal here and medical weed hard to access/very expensive. I am reliant on black market for cannabis).

My sleep issues (aside from RLS) started when my schedule meant waking well before my natural waking time (I’m a night owl). Stupidly, I find I often stay awake worrying about not getting enough sleep! My cognitive function is terrible on no sleep, everything hurts and I become snappy with my kids & unable to work properly. I have to drive everywhere too, and that gets dangerous on not much sleep.

I have an overactive mind. I’ve had years of medical help, sleep studies, psychologists, etc for over 20 years. No amount of sleep hygiene, melatonin, supps etc seems to help. I sleep in a cool dark room, use ear plugs and have a very set routine. Weed has been one of the few things that has enabled me to have a somewhat normal life.

 

[Darksidesam]

I loved baclofen when I had it prescribed for back trouble. Sadly, it’s very difficult now to get prescribed here in Australia. Heck, nearly any useful drug is (getting high CBD weed is not so easy either, might be able to find some oil. Weed is illegal here and medical weed hard to access/very expensive. I am reliant on black market for cannabis).

My sleep issues (aside from RLS) started when my schedule meant waking well before my natural waking time (I’m a night owl). Stupidly, I find I often stay awake worrying about not getting enough sleep! My cognitive function is terrible on no sleep, everything hurts and I become snappy with my kids & unable to work properly. I have to drive everywhere too, and that gets dangerous on not much sleep.

I have an overactive mind. I’ve had years of medical help, sleep studies, psychologists, etc for over 20 years. No amount of sleep hygiene, melatonin, supps etc seems to help. I sleep in a cool dark room, use ear plugs and have a very set routine. Weed has been one of the few things that has enabled me to have a somewhat normal life.

Damn ye i feel you on it because insomnia has been the bane of my life, but its mostly now either depression of things ive lost/happened to me or noisy shitty neighbours that prevent my sleep as cannabis seems to aid my sleep very well, as does a very productive positive day.

If you get some CBD i recommend trying to dose it at the same time or after and not before thc consumption.
Also another option for you could be experimenting in turning your THC into CBN and seeing if that benefits you, its meant to be as effective as diazepam for sleep personally my experience was headaches but i am kind of prone to them so your experience might be different.

 

[G_Chem]

Salvia sclarea essential oil is a strong sedative. Combine that with some rosemary honey. CBN is also great, but best in conjunction with other cannabinoids.

Edible cannabis is much better for sleep than smoking too.

-GC

 

[Darksidesam]

CBN is also great, but best in conjunction with other cannabinoids.

Edible cannabis is much better for sleep than smoking too.

-GC

My old vaped weed cakes i used to make back your statements here because i presume they are also high in CBN and yes they was very good for helping me sleep

 

[G_Chem]

My old vaped weed cakes i used to make back your statements here because i presume they are also high in CBN and yes they was very good for helping me sleep

Some of the best edibles I’ve made were from leftover vape weed, no one should ever throw theirs out. It’s already completely decarbed and as you said higher in CBN.

I’ve also found CBN is much more active orally than smoked.

Another product really high in CBN is pipe resin. Probably the highest of all, edibles made from pipe resin will knock you out like a light.

One more tip for any cannabis growers here. To get a really sedating smoke, let an Indica dom strain go long past it’s ideal pick time. The buds should start to brown and be dying. This is another way to boost CBN and other degradation products that help with sleep.

-GC

 

[Jibult]

I loved baclofen when I had it prescribed for back trouble. Sadly, it’s very difficult now to get prescribed here in Australia. Heck, nearly any useful drug is (getting high CBD weed is not so easy either, might be able to find some oil. Weed is illegal here and medical weed hard to access/very expensive. I am reliant on black market for cannabis).

My sleep issues (aside from RLS) started when my schedule meant waking well before my natural waking time (I’m a night owl). Stupidly, I find I often stay awake worrying about not getting enough sleep! My cognitive function is terrible on no sleep, everything hurts and I become snappy with my kids & unable to work properly. I have to drive everywhere too, and that gets dangerous on not much sleep.

I have an overactive mind. I’ve had years of medical help, sleep studies, psychologists, etc for over 20 years. No amount of sleep hygiene, melatonin, supps etc seems to help. I sleep in a cool dark room, use ear plugs and have a very set routine. Weed has been one of the few things that has enabled me to have a somewhat normal life.

Same problem here! Then I got a delivery job a few years ago and everything changed after covid hit and we were all working 60hr weeks.

When you can't stop your thoughts, you need to tire out your body to the point where your mind has no choice but to shut down and recoup. Oftentimes it'll feel like you trick yourself into falling asleep, and your bouncing thoughts transition into ridiculous dreams without you even realizing it.

I recommend an exercise routine. Preferably, cardio in the morning and calisthenics or weight training a few hours before bedtime (or right after work). Wipe yourself out, man, go until your muscles burn and scream that they can't go anymore. Eat a nice dinner, take a shower at whatever temp you prefer and watch yourself drift right the fuck off into La La Land, especially if you get high before you let your head hit a pillow.

You likely won't even have to keep up a vigorous routine. Just do it for a few days to kind of jumpstart your transition to an actual sleeping schedule.

ETA: idk what kind of efforts you've put in here but I felt like I should add a little more. There was a sort of... idk what to call it, I guess an exercise that really helped me out on those nights where I just could not fall asleep for the life of me.

I learned to visualize a pretty basic scenario in the darkness behind my eyelids. Basically, I would visualize myself walking down a narrow, dark tunnel that slowly grew into a massive cavern. The further I walked, the larger the cavern grew-- and the larger the cavern grew, the smaller I seemed to become until it felt like the darkness, the nothingness around me had swallowed me whole.

That shit had like a 95% success rate for me. The trick, I think, is to find a way to stop your mind from bouncing around from one thought to another and get it focused like a lens on one very simple thing. Stay focused for long enough and your mind will waiver at some point, and next thing you know you're dreamin' about whatever crazy shit you like to dream about.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Some of the best edibles I’ve made were from leftover vape weed, no one should ever throw theirs out. It’s already completely decarbed and as you said higher in CBN.

I've always loved leftover vaped weed!! Never knew why though.

I very much enjoy CBN products, it makes sense now.

Leftover vaped weed always reminded me of hash for some reason, very heavy sleepy high. Makes you sleepy and relaxed more than it gets you high.


anyways... in terms of random sleep tips I heard a sleep scientist once say if you're having trouble sleeping, be laying down in a pitch dark room and keep your eyes open and stare at the ceiling/darkness, without blinking, for as long as possible (1-2 minutes without blinking). Doing so releases significantly more endogenous melatonin than just having your eyes closed and trying to sleep. Something about staring at darkness with open eyes signals your brain it's time to sleep.

 

[Darksidesam]

anyways... in terms of random sleep tips I heard a sleep scientist once say if you're having trouble sleeping, be laying down in a pitch dark room and keep your eyes open and stare at the ceiling/darkness, without blinking, for as long as possible (1-2 minutes without blinking). Doing so releases significantly more endogenous melatonin than just having your eyes closed and trying to sleep. Something about staring at darkness with open eyes signals your brain it's time to sleep.

Will have to try this one myself ...after i put a bit of tape over the smoke alarm green light.. lol

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Will have to try this one myself ...after i put a bit of tape over the smoke alarm green light.. lol

Lol, yeah. My computer lights are bright as hell. I tried doing this and suddenly realized how many small lights I have everywhere. Even the tiny power button on my monitor gives off plenty of light.

I think the same effect could be possible with a sleep mask.

 

[Kellsee]

All of this is why you getchu some infared red light therapy


Replenish that circadian rhythm baby!

 

[alyssa114]

Salvia sclarea essential oil is a strong sedative. Combine that with some rosemary honey. CBN is also great, but best in conjunction with other cannabinoids.

Edible cannabis is much better for sleep than smoking too.

-GC

Will check out the oil, thanks.

I do sometimes make edibles from vaped weed, but find them too unpredictable. One morning, after peanut butter and a small amount of ABV before bed, I was *so*stoned still I couldn’t walk/function the next day and had to call in sick, LOL. Have been a bit cautious since. :D Looking after young kids, I have to be careful! (Joys of stoner mum life).

I find vaping very effective as I can stop once I’m desired level of floaty. I just find I sleep better when the weed’s stacked with a small dose of something else.

 

[alyssa114]

Same problem here! Then I got a delivery job a few years ago and everything changed after covid hit and we were all working 60hr weeks.

When you can't stop your thoughts, you need to tire out your body to the point where your mind has no choice but to shut down and recoup. Oftentimes it'll feel like you trick yourself into falling asleep, and your bouncing thoughts transition into ridiculous dreams without you even realizing it.

I recommend an exercise routine. Preferably, cardio in the morning and calisthenics or weight training a few hours before bedtime (or right after work). Wipe yourself out, man, go until your muscles burn and scream that they can't go anymore. Eat a nice dinner, take a shower at whatever temp you prefer and watch yourself drift right the fuck off into La La Land, especially if you get high before you let your head hit a pillow.

You likely won't even have to keep up a vigorous routine. Just do it for a few days to kind of jumpstart your transition to an actual sleeping schedule.

ETA: idk what kind of efforts you've put in here but I felt like I should add a little more. There was a sort of... idk what to call it, I guess an exercise that really helped me out on those nights where I just could not fall asleep for the life of me.

I learned to visualize a pretty basic scenario in the darkness behind my eyelids. Basically, I would visualize myself walking down a narrow, dark tunnel that slowly grew into a massive cavern. The further I walked, the larger the cavern grew-- and the larger the cavern grew, the smaller I seemed to become until it felt like the darkness, the nothingness around me had swallowed me whole.

That shit had like a 95% success rate for me. The trick, I think, is to find a way to stop your mind from bouncing around from one thought to another and get it focused like a lens on one very simple thing. Stay focused for long enough and your mind will waiver at some point, and next thing you know you're dreamin' about whatever crazy shit you like to dream about.

On busy days, my work involves walking 15-18km a day. Even after a physically demanding day, I can still have issues sleeping. I know, total basket case. I have pretty much tried every non drug therapy.

If I never had to work or go anywhere, and could be a lady of leisure I’d probably sleep fine. Shoulda married money….

 

[Darksidesam]

Lol, yeah. My computer lights are bright as hell. I tried doing this and suddenly realized how many small lights I have everywhere. Even the tiny power button on my monitor gives off plenty of light.

I think the same effect could be possible with a sleep mask.

This is an issue i never had before drug use/raving
But it become an issue afterwards

Will check out the oil, thanks.

I do sometimes make edibles from vaped weed, but find them too unpredictable. One morning, after peanut butter and a small amount of ABV before bed, I was *so*stoned still I couldn’t walk/function the next day and had to call in sick, LOL. Have been a bit cautious since. :D Looking after young kids, I have to be careful! (Joys of stoner mum life).

I find vaping very effective as I can stop once I’m desired level of floaty. I just find I sleep better when the weed’s stacked with a small dose of something else.

The best way is to weigh if possible what you have, and then i used to make cupcakes and freeze the leftover ones so i could dose it really well and dose when i knew i had nothing to do to test the power of 1 and knew 1 cupcake would be a certain dose

 

[Innerpeace]

L-theanine helps. dose dependent of course.

Gaba powder can help, if havent eaten an hour or longer before bed. 2.5-5 grams.

 

[Jibult]

On busy days, my work involves walking 15-18km a day. Even after a physically demanding day, I can still have issues sleeping. I know, total basket case. I have pretty much tried every non drug therapy.

If I never had to work or go anywhere, and could be a lady of leisure I’d probably sleep fine. Shoulda married money….

Have you ever tried listening to audio tracks designed to help you sleep?

There's a whole slew of them and it might take some trial and error to find one that works for you, but they're called "binaural beats." idk the science (or pseudoscience) behind the idea but they seemed to work for me. It's the same concept as listening to a thunderstorm or ocean waves, but they take it a little bit further with binaural beats. A lot of the tracks are short so you'd probably be best off setting them on repeat, or just setting up a "Go to sleep"-playlist and starting at the top.



I hope that link works for you, but if it doesn't just say the word and I'll get you to that page.

 

[Jeebis2]

I have dangerously bad insomnia myself (has greatly impacted my health in a negative way)

The best thing I've found is the combination of large amounts of thc and large amounts of CBN (with a good amount of cbg for good measure)

Specifically the combination of high dose oral cbn and inhaled thc. Specifically using a very strong concentrate (preferably an indica. Herijuana is my favorite sleepy strain) that preserves the cannabinoid and terpene profiles like hash rosin or bubble hash.

A buddy of mine used to make these capsules that were 20mg cbn, 4.5mg cbg, 23.4mg thc, 9mg cbd and few other cannabinoids, but that was an outstanding product.

Also, RSO (rick Simpson oil) cures all