Tapering Benzo withdrawal: Losing my mind

[cj]

I'm doing a ltitle better this month regulating my intake of benzos. As long as I can get 10 days worth illicit Ill be fine. Other months I was needing 15-20 days off the street

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you considered doing some volunteering somewhere that you could envision yourself working at, like an animal shelter, school or hospital? That can be a great way to get the foot in the door, although yeah it doesn't pay shit of course.

Sending you some warm fuzzy vibes from out west cj!

 

[F'Loki]

Fuck. Your original post cj....I know exactly how that feels because I felt like that all last night. It was like a really REALLY bad acid trip. Suicidal thoughts spinning round my head, body trembling, feeling like I was actually going insane, drenched in sweat....Heroin withdrawals are just laughably easy compared to this shit.

And the worst part is this is my second attempt in 2 years and I have only dropped from around 30mgs to 23mg. Jesus. It wasn't anywhere near this bad the last time (I got down to 2mg at one point, fairly painlessly, over a few months, then relapsed....so frustrated but trying to put it out of my mind, and it shows that I can do this) so I have no idea what is going on...Does it get better? Is there anything I can do that I am not already doing (abstaining from all other drugs), meditating, group therapy, 1 to 1 counselling, taking st. john's wort/skullcap etc? I hate there is no medication you can take (other than sedating anti-histamines....great) to at least help with the withdrawals, unlike virtually every other drug.

Had the shittiest year of my life so far....Kidney stones and a stent fitted inside me through December and January (and 3 ops to get rid of them) - got hooked on the pain meds for that and then I started taking oxy and H (again) and quit cold turkey, which fucked my benzo use because I upped it to deal with the opiate WDs.
So gone through worst pain of my life, then CT opiate withdrawals, and now benzo withdrawals....Looks like it's going to be a taper until September and then possibly PAWS. I feel like I have been through hell already and i've got much worse to come....I think this is why I get the suicidal thoughts so frequently. The only thing that is probably stopping me from doing that is because of my wife.

Please guys and girls, stay the fuck away from benzos. They have dominated my life for a year now - I know people have gone through much longer periods - but to me it already feels like an eternity.

Anyway, stay strong cj and everyone else going through this absolute hell.

F'loki

 

[cj]

Fuck. Your original post cj....I know exactly how that feels because I felt like that all last night. It was like a really REALLY bad acid trip. Suicidal thoughts spinning round my head, body trembling, feeling like I was actually going insane, drenched in sweat....Heroin withdrawals are just laughably easy compared to this shit.

And the worst part is this is my second attempt in 2 years and I have only dropped from around 30mgs to 23mg. Jesus. It wasn't anywhere near this bad the last time (I got down to 2mg at one point, fairly painlessly, over a few months, then relapsed....so frustrated but trying to put it out of my mind, and it shows that I can do this) so I have no idea what is going on...Does it get better? Is there anything I can do that I am not already doing (abstaining from all other drugs), meditating, group therapy, 1 to 1 counselling, taking st. john's wort/skullcap etc? I hate there is no medication you can take (other than sedating anti-histamines....great) to at least help with the withdrawals, unlike virtually every other drug.

Had the shittiest year of my life so far....Kidney stones and a stent fitted inside me through December and January (and 3 ops to get rid of them) - got hooked on the pain meds for that and then I started taking oxy and H (again) and quit cold turkey, which fucked my benzo use because I upped it to deal with the opiate WDs.
So gone through worst pain of my life, then CT opiate withdrawals, and now benzo withdrawals....Looks like it's going to be a taper until September and then possibly PAWS. I feel like I have been through hell already and i've got much worse to come....I think this is why I get the suicidal thoughts so frequently. The only thing that is probably stopping me from doing that is because of my wife.

Please guys and girls, stay the fuck away from benzos. They have dominated my life for a year now - I know people have gone through much longer periods - but to me it already feels like an eternity.

Anyway, stay strong cj and everyone else going through this absolute hell.

F'loki

You dropped your dose too much. See how you feel on 25mg. The goal of a taper is to feel sober not high not in withdrawal. It takes a long time but a proper taper is crucial

 

[swilow]

A proper slow taper should also help reduce PAWS. Never more than 10% every fortnight or even less if you can be patient.

 

[F'Loki]

Yeah my case worker and clinic doctor suggested going back to 25mg because the WDs are so extreme (it's mainly the insomnia but also physical symptoms are very bad: Feel like I have the flu, like opiate WD's but worse, with stabbing headaches etc): Trouble is I have been forced to buy off the blackmarket since my old GP moved away and I got my diazepam cut off and then the whole kidney stones drama.....So at times all I could get was clonazepam, xanax and etizolam as there were so many diazepam fakes going around; I tried my best to follow the equivalency charts to keep it around 25mgs, but I think it is going to take time to find the equivalent dose as the charts I don't feel are always right (no way is clonzaepam 0.5mg equivalent to 10mg in my opinion). So it's hard now to adjust to just plain old diazepam. I personally feel the Ashton Taper equivalency charts a bit far fetched. I can barely feel 2mg Clonazepam yet it's supposed to be 40mg diazepam, which I certainly feel a lot more....

Anyway, got an appointment Tuesday with outpatient rehab doctor and my case worker for 1 hour so we can work out a new reduction plan and maybe discuss if there is anything they can do for constant suicidal thoughts and depression that are really bothering me. Can't even meditate. Can't function on any level tbh. I was planning to drop by 2mgs a week as I was fine with that last time until I hit about 5mgs (then had to slow down to 0.5mg reductions).

Might be a kindling effect now though so I guess I will just have to take it easy and drop 1mg a week instead. Just so frustrating because that means 25 weeks = 6 months. I just want this over with but everyone I ask (millions of doctors) say you cannot rush it and I know it...But ugh. I am thinking of just sucking it up and dropping 2mgs a week when I have stabilised because I just want it over...But then I think "is it worth it if it means PAWS will be more likely?" So the choice seems to be a more rapid taper and a risk of PAWS or a slow taper and probably not have any PAWS.

Guess I have to find a balance between the two.

Anyway thanks for the advice.

 

[cj]

My experience with rehab doctors has been that they want you to go to rehab. Go figure. Be prepared to protect your rights.

 

[F'Loki]

My experience with rehab doctors has been that they want you to go to rehab. Go figure. Be prepared to protect your rights.

Yeah, it's ridiculous isn't it? Benzo tapering is absolutely unsuitable for inpatient rehab.

Luckily these guys are pretty clued on to everything (if you read my journal you'll see that) and work solely as an outpatient rehab clinic, which is great. They are aware of the Ashton manual and the need to take it very slowly with tapering, whether it be benzos or with methadone or subs. Hence why I phoned today in a complete mess they said i've probably dropped too fast and to either just persevere or go back up to 25mg, and repeated that I should only be reducing 10% a week or fortnight. On top they offer peer therapy, 1 to 1 counseling, mindfulness meditation classes, even acupuncture all for free.
This is in contrast to a few GPs I phoned who have been all like "oooh well, i'm so sorry but there is nothing we can do you just need to persevere" - still so many in the UK who have no clue whatsoever about how to withdraw people appropriately, but I understand the situation is apparently better here than the US...If that's true then I truly feel terrible for you guys across the pond. For how much the UK sucks the one thing left we do have is a pretty solid healthcare system, even if at times you have to fight them tooth and nail to get the treatment you have a right too.

Anyway, sorry for thread hi-jacking. Hope you are doing good. I just managed to have an afternoon nap for an hour and am having one of those windows where I feel almost 'normal' - it's glorious and has given me a bit more hope. lol

Sending good thoughts to everyone.

F'loki

 

[cj]

Yeah, it's ridiculous isn't it? Benzo tapering is absolutely unsuitable for inpatient rehab.

Luckily these guys are pretty clued on to everything (if you read my journal you'll see that) and work solely as an outpatient rehab clinic, which is great. They are aware of the Ashton manual and the need to take it very slowly with tapering, whether it be benzos or with methadone or subs. Hence why I phoned today in a complete mess they said i've probably dropped too fast and to either just persevere or go back up to 25mg, and repeated that I should only be reducing 10% a week or fortnight. On top they offer peer therapy, 1 to 1 counseling, mindfulness meditation classes, even acupuncture all for free.
This is in contrast to a few GPs I phoned who have been all like "oooh well, i'm so sorry but there is nothing we can do you just need to persevere" - still so many in the UK who have no clue whatsoever about how to withdraw people appropriately, but I understand the situation is apparently better here than the US...If that's true then I truly feel terrible for you guys across the pond. For how much the UK sucks the one thing left we do have is a pretty solid healthcare system, even if at times you have to fight them tooth and nail to get the treatment you have a right too.

Anyway, sorry for thread hi-jacking. Hope you are doing good. I just managed to have an afternoon nap for an hour and am having one of those windows where I feel almost 'normal' - it's glorious and has given me a bit more hope. lol

Sending good thoughts to everyone.

F'loki

I'm doing well man. I dread the end of the month when the script runs low and I gotta pay the doc. The other 3 weeks are cake. I'm not tapering an more though just maintaining. I guess I'm gonna be on benzos for awhile.

 

[manofadude]

If benzos don't help me anymore what will? Haven't posted in awhile but I am at quite the low point after my friend just told me his buddy took his life. For 6 months now I've felt like I've been one inch away from falling off the deep end. Still no emotions or the ability to remember yet half the day yesterday. Probably only cried 3 times in these 6 months and I'm a crier. The only thing keeping me going at this point is my family and friend. Feel like the last option is to buy a plane ticket and take off. The money I would pay to rewind a few years, damn.

 

[Jabberwocky]

cj, I love how your thread has become the defacto SL benzodiazepine support thread

If benzos don't help me anymore what will? Haven't posted in awhile but I am at quite the low point after my friend just told me his buddy took his life. For 6 months now I've felt like I've been one inch away from falling off the deep end. Still no emotions or the ability to remember yet half the day yesterday. Probably only cried 3 times in these 6 months and I'm a crier. The only thing keeping me going at this point is my family and friend. Feel like the last option is to buy a plane ticket and take off. The money I would pay to rewind a few years, damn.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend manofadude. Loss is never easy, even if it is "just" a friend of a friend. Brings the whole mortality of life home big time. I'm really glad to hear you are relying on your family and friend. I take it they're supportive?

I hear there are some nice retreat type places in Thailand if you have the resources though I was always kind of afraid of traveling out of the country when I was dependent on anything (for obvious reasons).

[mention]F'Loki[/mention] cj gave you really good advice regarding your taper. I'm so sorry to hear you've been having a rough time of it my friend. It sounds like you need to (re)stabilize on the dose you're at before continuing to taper, at least until you get a better hold on your mental health before even thinking about continuing forward with it. Keep your head up and let us know how it goes!

 

[cj]

I'm doing pretty well this month controlling my use. At this point I'm only gonna end up out 3-5 days early. I can cover that off the street or with a small dose reduction. I'm lucky that the kpin does still work and my tolerance hasnt escalated like some people's I've seen. 1.5mg will still take the edge off the worst day and 2mg will zonk me out for 6 hours. I've been using small doses of seroquel at night to put me out early and stop the urge to redose when my 1mg 4pm dose starts fading. Realistically withdrawal can be kept at bay for almost a whOle 24 hours with 1mg it's just not comfortable.

All in all I'm feeling better then I have in awhile about the circus I call my life.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Nice work cj! I hope you feel like you're accomplishing something significant hear as you begin to stabilize more and more. It's a pretty huge improvement from the dark place you have been working from.

I mean, you obviously are aware you still have quite a bit of work left to do with this whole thing, but from talking with you (for, god, what has it been a few years now?) I've always had a feeling you'd start figuring things out sooner than later.

You're a rather intelligent, capable guy you know, despite how folks haven't been there or don't get it like to make us feel a lot of the time You deserve to believe in yourself, and I hope for nothing more than for you to see yourself as, while flawed like the rest of us, truly wonderful and gifted individual that (I also have no doubt) you'll come to understand you in fact are (sooner or later ).

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I've been going through a lot of shitty things myself. Hope you're holding together well man.

 

[manofadude]

Positive outlooks keeps the chin up

 

[cj]

I solved my problem for the month today I think by getting 3 days worth of bars. I may end up with extra for the first time but I'm not holding my breath on that one

 

[manofadude]

If the last doctor I saw said that under the dose I was taking for 2 years I shouldn't be feeling at all how I describe, he said he's dealt with many benzos withdrawal situations, should I believe him or what. My situation just isn't improving given the 6 months I've been off benzos. He said he thinks it's an underlying depression or anxiety disorder but I don't see why that would throw me into a state of depersonalization and what not for 6 months. Starting to notice how terrible my memory is and even more worried that I'm trying to start school soon. This is the year I wanna take action with my life but I don't know how the fuck i can do that with all the debilitating issues on my plate. Sorry for the rant:/ hope ur doing well cj

 

[cj]

If the last doctor I saw said that under the dose I was taking for 2 years I shouldn't be feeling at all how I describe, he said he's dealt with many benzos withdrawal situations, should I believe him or what. My situation just isn't improving given the 6 months I've been off benzos. He said he thinks it's an underlying depression or anxiety disorder but I don't see why that would throw me into a state of depersonalization and what not for 6 months. Starting to notice how terrible my memory is and even more worried that I'm trying to start school soon. This is the year I wanna take action with my life but I don't know how the fuck i can do that with all the debilitating issues on my plate. Sorry for the rant:/ hope ur doing well cj

It's not a rant it's the truth of benzo related PAWS. Your doctor sounds ignorant. So what's his solution SSRIs? There like the go to grab bag when phychs don't know wtf to do.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I tend to agree with cj, it doesn't sound like doctor is taking you seriously. It sounds like he is just treating you like the "standard junkie" and not someone who is genuinely hurting.

I forget your exact situation with benzos (how long you were one them, what you were taking, and what dose you were able to maintain at using them), but it takes a long time to recover from a serious benzodiazepine habit. And effective tapers that tend to make that most possible likewise are hardly a quick process.

The symptoms you describe manofadude sound like classic symptoms of long term benzodiazepines use and PAWS though. If you can just keep pushing forward setting and accomplishing small goals that are meaningful to you, eventually your body should right itself. But that itself is a very slow process.

Is there any way you can find a more qualified psychiatrist or specialist?

 

[Ne0]

Nah benzos are totally fine. I've been using them 15 years off and on, never over month 1 daily. Just keep breaks. OP used them 10 years daily? Believe me ssris are much worse and they dont even work, like benzos.